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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:06:16 PM
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Flintejae
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Hello all. I thought I'd type my story to start the thread.
My son is almost 7 months old. I embraced many ideas of attachment parenting, but came to discover that having a child sleep with us, or in our room, was not a healthy option for any of us. I could tell that I had become my sons passy, I was waking him up at night, and daddy was losing more and more room and sleep. I prayed about it a lot and just knew it was time to try this option.
I cannot tell you how much it changed all of our lives! My son and I were no longer getting 2-3 hour stretches, but 4-6 hour stretches of sleep! My son was happier, didn't have bags under his eyes, and wasn't the least bit abused or neglected. He woke up happy, whole, and ready to play.
For us, my husband and I took turns the first two nights. We made sure our son was fed, changed, and had obvious sleepy cues. We laid him in bed and went into his room every 1-3 minutes to shoosh him, pat him down, and let him know he wasn't abandoned. Eventually, we could tell his cries changed and his daddy went in to pat him down to sleep. The first night took 1.5 hours and after that it shortened to the point where our son snuggles up with his lamb or blanket and sleeps like a champ. It changed our lives. I am no longer exhausted and facing the delima's of exhaustion. I can enjoy breastfeeding more because I'm no longer his passy. It's just been wonderful.
Feel free to share your thoughts or stories.
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- Janine
Jadon, 3/12/08. Thank You, Lord, for Your Amazing Miracles
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:08:27 PM
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nicole6598
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Well controlled crying really saved me and my family!! It really did.
I thought I had to do what others were doing. I thought that to be a good mum I had to sleep with my baby, I had to let them nurse to sleep, I had to hold them in my arms til they were asleep and then do the little "oh my goodness my arm is stuck and I need to put the baby down" thing.
I had depression with my daughter because I thought that being a good mum meant that I had to do whatever it is that others were doing or telling me to do and by not letting her cry at all.
BOY I was so wrong!! At about the 9 month mark I got help for the depression and help to settle her on.her.own. It was hard those first few days. I felt guilty. I felt like I was being horrible. a friend spoke to me on the phone each day as I did the controlled crying and really encouraged me. She let me know that to be a good mum I had to be healthy. I had to have sleep, I needed to have some rest, some time out. I wasn't getting that having her on me or with me 24/7. She did controlled crying with her kids and they are the most lovely, sweet, caring children I have ever met!!
I was so relieved when Grace was sleeping on her own. I was so proud of her too. And she slept better too away from me!! She wasn't grumpy or sad like they want you to believe. She was actually happier and so was I!! shortly after that the depression lifted. I think alot of it was sleep deprivation and trying to be someone I wasn't.
BTW it doesn't mean that any other form of parenting is wrong either. but for ME and my family it didn't work. We all need to do what is best for US.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:13:10 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4396
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Flintejae
I'm am beyond weary of the attitude that 'controlled crying' is abusive
Um...I think your description pretty much describes normal parenting. I've never known a parent--and I've been around for dozens and dozens of new babies--to do anything different.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:15:20 PM
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CoeurdeLeon_
Posts: 9314
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Flintejae
Hello all. I thought I'd type my story to start the thread.
My son is almost 7 months old. I embraced many ideas of attachment parenting, but came to discover that having a child sleep with us, or in our room, was not a healthy option for any of us. I could tell that I had become my sons passy, I was waking him up at night, and daddy was losing more and more room and sleep. I prayed about it a lot and just knew it was time to try this option.
I cannot tell you how much it changed all of our lives! My son and I were no longer getting 2-3 hour stretches, but 4-6 hour stretches of sleep! My son was happier, didn't have bags under his eyes, and wasn't the least bit abused or neglected. He woke up happy, whole, and ready to play.
For us, my husband and I took turns the first two nights. We made sure our son was fed, changed, and had obvious sleepy cues. We laid him in bed and went into his room every 1-3 minutes to shoosh him, pat him down, and let him know he wasn't abandoned. Eventually, we could tell his cries changed and his daddy went in to pat him down to sleep. The first night took 1.5 hours and after that it shortened to the point where our son snuggles up with his lamb or blanket and sleeps like a champ. It changed our lives. I am no longer exhausted and facing the delima's of exhaustion. I can enjoy breastfeeding more because I'm no longer his passy. It's just been wonderful.
Feel free to share your thoughts or stories.
Good for you! It took 3 nights, and less time each night, for my daughter to fall asleep on her own in her crib in her own room.
She's now almost 16 years old and guess what? She doesn't remember a thing about it. 
Seriously, when my son came along I made sure that he was falling asleep on his own from the get-go and he's always had a much better sleep pattern than my daughter. I messed it up by trying too hard, rocking her to sleep, not letting her cry. Even given the normal differences in kids, she would have been much better off as far as sleep amount/quality if I'd done with her what I later did with her brother.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:16:38 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: Flintejae
I'm am beyond weary of the attitude that 'controlled crying' is abusive
Um...I think your description pretty much describes normal parenting. I've never known a parent--and I've been around for dozens and dozens of new babies--to do anything different.
You don't spend a lot of time in the Maternity Ward of the Women's folder?
Many women are very uncomfortable allowing even a toddler to cry for any length of time, and still nurse/rock to sleep. The child never fusses themselves to sleep.
And if that's what the mom wants to do, that is fine. Nothing wrong with either strategy, IMO. But those Jae is not wrong that those who do allow for a bit of fussing when they sleep train are sometimes treated in a negative manner.
ETA: Jae and I cross posted, but yes, she's completely correct in the attitude that some have of controlled crying.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:17:48 PM
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stellaluna
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Sounds like people just like to place blame for things in weird places.
I can tell you that my nephew slept with my brother and sil and it took them years to get him to sleep by himself in his own room. His younger sister has never spent a night in their bed, ever. That was a promise they made before another kid was born--no more sleeping with mom and dad.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:23:50 PM
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nicole6598
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Coeurd- that is what I was thinking!! With Nath all he wanted to do was sleep on his own, but here I was thinking I needed to prop him up and hold him up to get the wind out, when it wasn't even that. And all this time I was acting like I knew more than my hubby and he was right. Nath was playing me. He didn't need me to hold him til he was asleep he could do it on his own!!
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:25:18 PM
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Sideways
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We did do some controlled crying, though for the life of me, I can't remember exactly when. I think it was around 9-10 months. I did nurse to sleep for quite a while, and for the first six months or more, it wasn't a problem. It worked well for us, and he slept fine, except when he was teething or just learning to roll over.
There were certainly some bad nights right around the 3 month mark because of teething and rolling over, but I personally would not have done controlled crying at that point. I didn't offer the breast all the time, but we did try to comfort him back to sleep. I think I'm somewhere in the middle on this, but I've only had one child so far.
I don't have hard and fast "rules" for myself, just general tenancies. With the first one, nursing to sleep worked quite well in the beginning, but as he got older we did more sleep training, which included CC. With a second baby and a toddler, I may do things completely different.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:25:36 PM
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macokjc
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I'm glad you started this thread. I was thinking about starting one on sleep-training. It breaks my heart to see new moms tired, weary, exhausted, depressed and upset because they are not getting enough sleep and they are not getting any breaks. Some are even struggling with marital woes because of it. I just shout at my computer "Life does not have to be this way." I don't know if it was the La leche league (one of my least favorite org.) that started the rumor that crying will harm a child, but I think it has done more harm than good. It is hard because all moms and children are different, and some honestly don't mind holding baby 24/7, but I think if more moms stood up and said, " you know, I let mine cry and we are all happy and healthy", new moms would not feel guilty about letting their child cry.
I have learned that there are certain threads that I don't post in anymore, because my opinion differs greatly than some, and they don't really want a differing opinion, they just want approval for what they are doing.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:28:36 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: Flintejae
I'm am beyond weary of the attitude that 'controlled crying' is abusive
Um...I think your description pretty much describes normal parenting. I've never known a parent--and I've been around for dozens and dozens of new babies--to do anything different.
You don't spend a lot of time in the Maternity Ward of the Women's folder?
LOL...no.
quote:
Many women are very uncomfortable allowing even a toddler to cry for any length of time, and still nurse/rock to sleep. The child never fusses themselves to sleep.
That's all fine and good to rock to sleep. Most parents I know do that when they have infants, and babies are cuddly and snuggly, but as your kid gets older there comes a point that they need to learn to comfort themselves and put themselves to sleep. My humble non-parent opinion of course.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:31:04 PM
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Sideways
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Where did that originate from? The idea that any amount of crying will cause physical harm to the child? Certainly I've never heard it from a doctor.
I can understand not "abandoning" the child, but that isn't what CC is all about. And like I said above, CC doesn't work exactly the same for everyone. Some only feel comfortable with it after a certain age, or would only try it on babies who have a certain temperament.
And I do believe that some babies will scream for 8 hours plus if you tried CC. For some it just will not work. But I don't believe that it's evil to try it out, especially if the baby is past a certain age. I personally wouldn't try it before six months, but I may eat my words with this new baby.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:33:15 PM
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stellaluna
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Also in my non-parent, uninformed opinion, this "crying is abusive" business sounds like the first step toward putting your kids on a pedestal.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:44:07 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Also in my non-parent, uninformed opinion, this "crying is abusive" business sounds like the first step toward putting your kids on a pedestal.
Nah, I wouldn't agree with that. I know folks that only sleep train after 1 year, and they are very much the boss of their kids. They just have a different way of handling babies vs. toddlers and above.
Like I said, it's not wrong if you truely feel that you should not let your kid cry, if that's what is right for you. Those parents can still be very strict disciplinarians and have very obedient children.
But it's also bogus to tell every parent on the planet they they are not being a good parent if they don't nurse through the night until the child is 2 and co-sleep until 5. (That's a slight exageration but you get my drift.)
One mom of a 16 month was told here once that if she did not nurse through the night and tried to sleep train (including CC) then she was only showing her child that the child's needs did not matter between the hours of 10pm-6am. Some of us believe that for older babies, a week of fussing is better in the long run for the needs of the whole family, baby included.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 7:57:04 PM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
One mom of a 16 month was told here once that if she did not nurse through the night and tried to sleep train (including CC) then she was only showing her child that the child's needs did not matter between the hours of 10pm-6am. Some of us believe that for older babies, a week of fussing is better in the long run for the needs of the whole family, baby included.
That's kind of what I meant, but didn't say very well. Unless you're just a terrible, neglectful parent (which I don't think very many are), your child's needs are always foremost in your mind. I just don't think that showing (or implying to) your child that their needs are always more important than everyone else's is particularly healthy.
My former best friend went through this when her youngest was about a year old and I distinctly remember her mother telling her to let him cry until he went to sleep, that it wasn't cruel and that it only took her brother one night of crying before he got over not being rocked to sleep. She tried it and it took her baby only a couple of days before he "got over it." No harm came to any of them and they all got a lot more sleep after that.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 8:11:38 PM
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Sideways
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Jae's right. Putting a child down and "letting them cry till they fall asleep" is referred to as Crying It Out, and that should be distinguished from Controlled Crying.
Controlled Crying is generally going in at regular, short intervals and reassuring the child, making sure they are actually ok, then repeating until the baby is asleep. It lets the child know that you haven't left them, but you aren't going to pick them up and rock/nurse them to sleep either. This is all based on the child not being in pain (so no teething), not being hungry, not being wet, dirty, cold, hot, etc. And you only put the child down when they are showing obvious clues of being sleeping.
Some CC people do give a passy, and return in the night to give the baby the passy if they've spit it out and can't get it for themselves. Some have to turn the baby over if they've started rolling.... Everyone plays it out a little different.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 9:09:48 PM
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lilyofthefield
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Thanks, Jae for starting this folder. I still have not determined what the best method will be for us, although I'm definitely not in favor of CIO. We have done the co-sleeping thing, but we've been in a different room from dh b/c of that. I am not comfortable sleeping with Caden in the guest bed with me too much b/c it is a very soft pillow top and he loves to roll over on his tummy. Also, it seems we both have a much harder time sleeping that way b/c he tries to nurse all night. He doesn't like the co-sleeper b/c it is so hard. He happens to really like his crib (yay), so he's been sleeping mainly in there for the last 2 weeks.
On a good night, he goes to bed around 8:30, sleeps 4-6 hours in his crib, nurses, then sleeps until about 5am in his crib, nurses and stays with me in bed awake some/snoozing some until about 7-8.
On a bad night he is up over and over wanting to nurse or have his binky replaced. I don't know what causes those rough nights - they seem sporadic. As you know from the other folder I tried a version of CC last night after replacing the binky for the umpteenth time. He ended up crying (I mean angry screaming) for a good hour (while I was patting him and shhhing him), then I finally nursed him and we both fell asleep exhausted.
Maybe he is still too young to try anything like CC? He is 4 months. It's just that after a couple nights in a row of no sleep (as I am on constant binky patrol), I am just exhausted, impatient, depressed, and no good to anyone.  Anyway, there may not be a real solution other than time, but it's encouraging to know I'm not alone.
How old is a generally good age to start trying CC? I'm thinking 4 months is just to young (or maybe it just isn't going to work with my little man).
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 9:59:19 PM
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nicole6598
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Usually controlled crying isn't that successful until they are about 6 months of age. I don't think its recommended to try it earlier than that. I did it at about 9 months with Grace and 11 months with Nath (I would of done it earlier but I thought he might have had an allergy). Lily I really hope that you can get some rest. Try and nap when he does. You are doing a good job trying things that might work. I think its a wise parent that says "you know what, that isn't working, maybe I should try this...". I think at this stage you just keep being consistant as you can for naps in his crib and always putting him in his crib at night and if on those bad nights you need to hold or nurse then do that until he gets older so you can rest, that is what I would do and did do with Nath.
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RE: "Controlled Crying" - 10/3/2008 10:05:06 PM
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Flintejae
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Lily - I also want to encourage you! I can't begin to tell you how HUGE it is that you have him comfortable in his own crib. I really believe that's the start of a good relationship with his crib.  I was once told to make sure he always naps in his crib during the day (if possible) - but to not be worried if you nurse him one day because he needs it, etc. That and always start him in his crib at night as you get him used to his new home. Right now he's probably just trying to figure out what exactly it is that you want from him.
You are working with him and I think that's a beautiful motherly thing to do. I can promise you that it WILL get better. It truly will. It got to the point (and I knew the timing was right) where we just bit the bullet and made sure he always slept in his bed (and fell asleep there too). Of course, I've had to make adjustments a few times where I would feed him to help him relax if he woke up weird, but he always went right back in his bed.
When you did the CC - was it in his crib or somewhere else? That may be a cause as well. Maybe he's confused and doesn't know where he's supposed to sleep - or how to self soothe. Have you been able to teach him techniques to self soothe? I was so intimidated by that!!! but it was easier than I thought it would be.
Do you have a routine at night? Routine has helped me so much - and Jadon - to know what's coming 'next'. They are smarter than we give them credit. I believe I could have sleep trained Jadon around five months, but I was too scared I couldn't do it, that he would be 'scarred for life', and I was flat lazy. I didn't understand that "I" was the problem; not him. Of course he's going ot take mom's breast if it's available! But, what he needed was to just go back to sleep without the breast. (Most of the time.)
Just remind yourself, hun, that you are a Wonderful mother. Your son loves you. Your husband loves you (and I'm sure misses you too) and your baby will learn to sleep and self soothe on his own. That's a promise. The only unknown is the timing.
But, truly, the fact that he's already comfortable in his crib is a HUGE step forward for the both of you!
_____________________________
- Janine
Jadon, 3/12/08. Thank You, Lord, for Your Amazing Miracles
Moo!
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