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16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/7/2008 5:18:36 PM
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April75
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Ok, I don't have a 16 year old but this is my relative. What would you do as a parent with a teenager in this case?
Normally doesn't have any behavioral problems other than things like not listening and not washing dishes when his mother says. He's in honors classes and is well mannered. His mother gets compliments all the time. When I've kept them when they were a little younger I had no problem.
There are a couple of things that recently happened:
#1 His mother wasn't at home one day last year and the step father of 2 years, told him to wash dishes well he wasn't getting up immediately and was grabbed by the arm to be pulled to wash dishes. He tried fighting his step dad back. No one was injured or hurt physically. His step dad is much larger than he.
2# He recently walked out of classes a few seconds before the bell rang.
He said normally that particular teacher let them go a few seconds early. I don't how true this is. But he said other children had left before him and the teacher saw them. He had in school suspension for this and had to turn in classwork. He asked to turn this in and was told no so he walked out to turn it in.
3# His mother found out he had been talking to a girl in the early hours of the morning. So she beat him in the head with a hanger and told him to get out of her house. He had to go call his grandmother who kept him for a day.
4# he was at he was spending time at his father who has only been in his life 4 years. The father was at work and asked him not to go outside. He went outside to get his hat from a neighbor because he thought he was going home that day. He came right back inside. Well a neighbor informed the father that he was outside. His father came home and told him he could not go outside until the next day because of what happened. He then asked to call his mother and his father refused. So he proceeded to pack his bags to leave. His father kicked his clothing, stood in front of the door and pushed him really hard. He hit his father back. Then his responded by hitting him in the face. His mother was called and she didn't know what else to do so she took him to a youth crisis center for 3 days.
His mother says he's distant and likes to stay in his room and read. He has done this since he was a little boy. The reading part, he just prefers reading as opposed to other things. He is a normal boy in 11th grade. He plays all type of sports.
When I talk to him as well as other family members we don't find him distant. I do know his mother says he doesn't socialize. She picks with the way he dresses. She's my close relative and I know it's not easy living with her.
We went to this place and made sure she brought him home. She didn't want to though. We talked, he cried some and explained what happened.
I don't see him as a problem child but what steps can she take at this point to help him?
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/7/2008 5:50:34 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5146
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From: So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HesallIneed
#1 His mother wasn't at home one day last year and the step father of 2 years, told him to wash dishes well he wasn't getting up immediately and was grabbed by the arm to be pulled to wash dishes. He tried fighting his step dad back. No one was injured or hurt physically. His step dad is much larger than he.
3# His mother found out he had been talking to a girl in the early hours of the morning. So she beat him in the head with a hanger and told him to get out of her house. He had to go call his grandmother who kept him for a day.
His father kicked his clothing, stood in front of the door and pushed him really hard. He hit his father back. Then his responded by hitting him in the face. His mother was called and she didn't know what else to do so she took him to a youth crisis center for 3 days.
From what you've said, this poor kid is in an abusive situation. He's not the one with the problem - the adults in his life do!
I'd try to get this kid away from these adults before he is further abused.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/8/2008 4:23:40 PM
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pbaribeault
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She can stop beating him... and rejecting him... and picking on him... and belittling him... and controlling him to the point of instant obedience....
At this point the teen is so frustrated that he is acting out. He is at a stage in life where it will be difficult for him to be level headed, gracious or understanding. Instead he probably blames his various parents for treating him like dirt all his life (maybe not accurate, but probably what he thinks).
It seems to me likely that... He hates his life. He hates being hemmed in on all sides all the time. He has a lot of anger and is finally big enough and frustrated enough to go ahead an throw his weight around, trying to control his own life.
At 16, with this style of parenting, he is not likely to respond to anything that his parents try. He will remain angry and sullen, and he will move out as soon as humanly possible.
Supposing, in the rare and miraculous case that his mom & step-dad receive extensive parenting training, plus counseling for their own personal issues - if they do this perfectly and immediately and never backslide, and if they openly seek his forgiveness - then he might begin to believe that they love him and are trying their best.
Other than that, this sounds like one of those, "We had a rocky time in the teen years with our son." kind of stories. Maybe they will be able to reconcile once they have been apart a while and the boy has grown up.
I know this sounds doom-and-gloom, but I really do think that there is too much ground to recover in too short of a time, and that this age group is particularly unlikely to be receptive to any attempt. There are worse things in life than having had a rocky relationship with your parents during your teen years.
Two things that should be done - one is to keep him away from high risk behaviours (sex, alcohol, drugs, gangs, crime, porn etc.) but control measures are going to backfire. The other thing (which might be the means to accomplish the first thing) is to expose him to a series of purposes in life that he can accomplish at his age - so that he can get really 'in to' something.
It should be something that's going to take a lot of time and effort, that will begin to provide a sense of unique self-ness and pride, preferably things that include groups or mentors. (I'm thinking, get his pilot's license, travel to the Olympics, joining the military, going to the mission field, learning another language, writing an entire computer game, becoming a leader at a club for dis-advantaged kids... whatever appeals... Auntie/Uncle might be able to encourage this sort of thing.
However, if he won't get 'in to' anything worthwhile, it's still better to be into something stupid (like computer games or a particular sports team or something) than to be out getting drunk or worse. Encourage worthless hobbies too. He'll grow up soon, at this point it's all about just getting through this without too much lasting damage, and later helping him find healing and reconciliation.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 8:24:43 AM
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sen10tious
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HesallIneed
His mother found out he had been talking to a girl in the early hours of the morning.
I do know his mother says he doesn't socialize. ...says he's distant and likes to stay in his room and read.
His mother was called and she didn't know what else to do so she took him to a youth crisis center for 3 days.
... what steps can she take at this point to help him?
(Those comments had their order edited to put them next to each other. )
The mom is clueless and she has put selfish men in his life as father role-models.
Find out if the school has a mentoring program. Better yet, look for a Christian mentoring program and get this kid a responsible adult he can talk to-- both regularly and also who will be 'on call' for the next time the other adults in his life start acting like brats;
Edit to add-- I just noticed this:
When I've kept them when they were a little younger I had no problem.
So, are there siblings in this household?
< Message edited by sen10tious -- 4/9/2008 9:08:33 AM >
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 9:29:46 AM
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April75
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Thanks for everyone's advice. I want to begin picking them(he has a twin) up on weekends just to get them out of that atmosphere. It's a long story although the step father is a long time friend of his moms they got together while he was married.
The thing about it though, his mom did far worse things growing up. I mean she's a decent person, goes to church and all but probably only has a certain structure in life at this time because she had them at 18. She was rebellious and wouldn't talk to her mom when she was young. She would come to our house just to get away. She would always pick one of us to harp on and get the others on her side. We didn't realize this until we got older. She would sneak out of the window. These are very good boys. They are not having sex or that into girls yet. They don't hang around druggies.
He does have a hobby which is reading. They do get to go outside and play basketball. He's not just sitting around doing nothing and has already picked the college(out of state) he wants to go to. He also has honors classes. He's in 11th grade and will only need 2 classes next year. They want an after school job but she won't let them because she wants them to focus on school at this time.
The mentoring thing my husband suggested. He said he would be a good role model for the boys. I believe he would. I will ask if they can come over on weekends. I think she will let them mostly unless she gets into her little moods and changes her mind. I'll keep you posted on the situation. I try this weekend to get them.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 9:58:21 AM
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Kat_D
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I'd like to know who gave the OP the details concerning the things she mentioned in the OP.
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"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 11:31:38 AM
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pbaribeault
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Small activities reading, shooting hoops and looking towards college are not really the kinds of things I was talking about. He needs something that is going to consume his time, require a lot of effort, and make him feel like a person with a purpose if he is going to avoid high-risk outlets for his frustrations and/or high-risk ways of filling the voids in his life.
I'm not just thinking about keeping his mind and body active, I'm talking about something that will help form his identity, apart from, "I'm a kid. When I'm done school, there will be more school - but at least I won't have to live here." What he needs is a light in his eyes and a light at the end of the tunnel... Can you talk with him?
Consider the summer... Can he go on a missions trip, or visit a missionary you are familiar with for a month? Can he work as staff for a summer camp? Can he get a student internship with a charity? Can he join your armed forces reserves and do his basic training? Can he do a student exchange within the country, or go and live on a farm for the summer as a job? Can he work in a National Park in a room-and-board situation? If he only has 2 classes left, can he finish those online, or maybe both in the 2nd semester so that he can pursue something worthwhile for even 6 months?
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 11:47:54 AM
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lightshineon
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Sounds like he is a good kid, from information recieved. He sounds that he is acting out, of anger and frustration. He is usually very obedient, and that does work, and now he doing things to provoke, to vent his pent up frustration. He has stuffed anger maybe for so long, it is a pressure cooker, a time bomb.
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Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 1:35:55 PM
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rainbowtvp
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If the information is accurate and not one-sided... no, regardless, this family needs immediate and intensive family therapy.
If you can get the kids out once in awhile, that would probably be good, at least at first, but the underlying issues in the family need to be addressed.
Tara P
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 2:19:26 PM
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IAMJulie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
quote:
ORIGINAL: HesallIneed
#1 His mother wasn't at home one day last year and the step father of 2 years, told him to wash dishes well he wasn't getting up immediately and was grabbed by the arm to be pulled to wash dishes. He tried fighting his step dad back. No one was injured or hurt physically. His step dad is much larger than he.
3# His mother found out he had been talking to a girl in the early hours of the morning. So she beat him in the head with a hanger and told him to get out of her house. He had to go call his grandmother who kept him for a day.
His father kicked his clothing, stood in front of the door and pushed him really hard. He hit his father back. Then his responded by hitting him in the face. His mother was called and she didn't know what else to do so she took him to a youth crisis center for 3 days.
From what you've said, this poor kid is in an abusive situation. He's not the one with the problem - the adults in his life do!
I'd try to get this kid away from these adults before he is further abused.
I totally agree. This sounds a bit like my home life when I was growing up and I SO needed to be removed from that household. Essentially all of the adults in his life who are supposed to care for him and love him are choosing to get physical instead. Who knows what else is happening.
Getting him out of the house on the weekends is a good start but IMO not enough. Family counseling may work but if his parents are anything like mine were it won't. He won't be able to be honest with a counselor and if he is his parents will lie and make him look like a bad kid and them like perfect angels.
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Julie, wife to Rob, mom to son Gabriel (2/04), daughter Zion (10/06), and son Gideon born 4/28/08, dog Towzer, cats Spot, Benny and Maisy, and many, many fish. Check out my blog at www.wellblessed.blogspot.com :)
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 2:23:13 PM
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April75
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I heard a little through my mother which is his grandmothers sister. But then we discussed all the events with his mom and him. She didn't say anything about hitting him with the hanger nor did I ask her but she confirmed and added the rest.
Ok, I misunderstood Pharibeault(I'll read your post again). Yes I can speak with him. Actually he had a lot of us talking to him and he started crying. It seemed honest and to the point (what he had to say). I was the only one that got out of him that he thought his mom wanted him to be perfect. When I said it, it his a nerve and he started crying more. My mother and his grandmother were telling him to forgive his dad. He said earlier(before that day) that he did but they made him. I told them he has to do it for real in his own heart. No one was upset with him and the conversation went well. It was all out of compassion and wasn't heated. But his mom was upset some but kept her composure and explained what she needed.
Summer camp sounds like something he could do. There are certain things he can do and can't do. His mother isn't going to let him go away anywhere at this point. But anything in our city would be good for him. As far as missions trips it has to be something he wants to do and is interested in. He's good with going to school at this point and hasn't had anymore problems. I'm sure he wants to graduate with his class and be at school with his twin. She just said something to me about a job for him. So I hope she lets him that will detour him from being home some.
One more thing he told us is that for a while he lost motivation at school for a while. With finishing online do you get your diploma from the same school? Does every school have those programs?
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 2:36:49 PM
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April75
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I agree rainbow.
When we were leaving they gave her the number to a counselor, she said she would call but it was just for him to go. She really wanted him to understand their are rules in life and how to deal with people in life she said.
His step dad seems to have taken on her personality. Strict and mean when they don't even live strict lives they did what they wanted as kids. I know things change but I've haven't witnessed a change in her to where she has said she would change the things she did. It's like they are taking out anger and frustration on their children for no reason.
< Message edited by HesallIneed -- 4/9/2008 2:49:06 PM >
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 2:41:34 PM
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Kat_D
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He is obviously hurting and his parents are probably hurting too. But it also sounds like there has been a lot of talk between family members and much can be lost and added in the translation. It is also possible to be more sypathetic to one party depending on who is giving an account of what has transpired. What goes on behind doors is very hard for outsiders to decipher properly.
That said, I'd be very careful here. You are not this boy's parent and unless you are specifically invited by his mother to help, i.e., mentor her son, I would tread lightly and sensitively.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/9/2008 3:04:18 PM
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April75
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Actually it hasn't been a lot of talk. I just heard what happened. She volunteered all info while we were with them at the crisis center. I'm in contact with her. She hasn't said we misunderstood anything at this point. She's a pretty candid, outspoken person. When I do talk to her and before I knew anything about what happened recently she was giving the run down of the issues she has with her husband.
You're right about stepping in you can't just do what you want with someone's child. This is something I wanted to do (let them come visit) for a while now since I haven't seen a lot of them recently. No matter what she's his mother I may not agree with some things but it's not my place. I can only come in when she invites me in her life. We always talk about her issues I just didn't know the extent of everything with this one son of hers.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/12/2008 7:51:36 AM
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buckifn
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Depending what state you are in, at the age of 16 a child can become an emancipated minor. That would give him the right to file a petition to live with a responsible adult of his own choosing. That is one of several options he may have which could be helpful.
What you described is an abusive situation and the child needs to be removed from that environment. The step=dad and the mother needs to be in parenting classes. Does your community offer any teen parenting classes?
Also, how is his relationship with his sibling?
Going to a crisis center and making sure the mother took him back home when she really didn't want to do so was not the wisest choice. Maybe he would be better out of that hostile environment for a set period of time?
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/12/2008 10:22:25 PM
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sen10tious
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
What you described is an abusive situation and the child needs to be removed from that environment.
No. We do not have nearly enough information to make that call. Besides, you have based this almost solely upon physical abuse. There are also the quantities of emotional and spiritual abuse to consider. Parents are almost never called abusive for training their children to be tolerant open-minded agnostics or atheists; yet this is spiritual abuse of the highest degree and will no doubt be the cause of many spending eternity in hell. The dangers of such abuse as that cannot begin to compare with a whap from a hanger that stops stinging after a few seconds.
We cannot calculate what problems might be encountered by separation. We do not have this information. Living in a household with a mother with a few emotional problems but who still loves her son, a household where the youth may gain support from a twin, even with some occasional physical abuse happening (which he may or may not have played a part in provoking,) and none of which has been life-threatening; all of this could still be preferable to having your roots ripped out from under you and being thrust into an entirely unknown situation with a foster family who might believe any worldly doctrine and could be in it largely for wrong reasons, who has no established loving relationship or real stake in his future.
The kid needs an on-the-spot mentor who can weigh these things appropriately, not pull him out of a frying pan to throw him into the fire.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/13/2008 4:33:03 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
Besides, you have based this almost solely upon physical abuse.
Are you kidding me? I can't begin to imagine what you meant by that, but it sounds like "physical abuse" is an afterthought to you... something not even worthy of consideration....and I pray that is not the case. Physical abuse is more than enough reason to remove a child from a specific environment.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/13/2008 7:17:27 PM
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sen10tious
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
Are you kidding me?
No. Ok, here is what we have been told in the OP:
#1. When he was told to wash dishes, he slacked off and disobeyed. The step-dad grabbed his arm to lead him to the kitchen. The boy fought. No one was injured or hurt physically.
#3 The boy had disrespected the house rules and his mother. The mother whapped him with a hanger; we do not know if it was wire, plastic, wood, etc. but generally hangers are pretty lightweight. That is not abuse; that is a stressed out mother's attempted discipline gone awry.
Neither of those cases are abuse. Abuse would be if he had been jerked around for accidently breaking a dish; that is different from a yank on the arm for deliberate defiance to not wash it.
#4. The boy was instructed not to go outside. The boy went outside. The father came home and told him he could not go outside until the next day. The kid wants to call his mom, and when told "no'' he packs to go out which was the original act of disobedience. We then have a reaction shove; a reaction to the reaction hit; and the first full-fledged abuse. BUT…this happened at the non-custodial parent's house anyway, so that is a problem no matter where the boy's main residence is. Removing him from his principal residence would not make a whit of difference here because this event did not happen at home.
This kid has a pattern of disobeying, and walking out, and then getting physical when challenged. In each case, we have indications that the boy's action directly provoked the situation to a higher level. This is a case of an undisciplined 16 year-old. You can bet the kid is not going to submit to a time-out for talking to a girl after hours.
The upside is that he does not sound hardened yet. [ RE: Actually he had a lot of us talking to him and he started crying. It seemed honest and to the point (what he had to say). I was the only one that got out of him that he thought his mom wanted him to be perfect. When I said it, it his a nerve and he started crying more. ] There is hope if he has someone he can turn to. But if he were removed from his home and placed with those who tell him it is not his fault and let him blame all his problems on the adults in his life instead of dealing with his own character issues, they might totally harden him and he will be worse off than he is now. So no, I am not kidding. There are worse things than the level of physical abuse that has been shown in the OP.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 7:22:17 AM
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sen10tious
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I woke up in the middle of the night and found myself thinking that I had not really explained myself adequately in my previous post. I dislike long posts and had tried to keep the earlier one short; but it is a disservice to not explain more fully.
Verbal abuse is often far worse than physical abuse when judged by the damage perpetrated upon a human spirit. I believe "damage to a human spirit" is a proper standard for judging abuse; certainly more reliable than counting punches. When I say verbal abuse, I am not talking about name-calling. I am talking about the use of words to destroy. God uses words to create. "Let there be…" Satan perverts the power of words to cause destruction. Destruction of a person's image-of-god spirit by deliberate lies and gossip about his character is potentially far more damaging than any physical abuse.
I hope that explains my point more clearly.
In the case of the OP, we are not given a full picture of the facts. I interpreted event of the mother with the hanger to most likely be that her heart's intent was good and noble in that she wanted to prevent her son from suffering in accordance with all the many, many verses from the Book of Proverbs that warn about a young man being led into destruction by following his lusts for a woman. Now, obviously a clothes hanger is not the ideal device for communicating this. I assume it was merely the handiest tool at the moment. Hitting in the head is wrong. But if you think about it, if a 16 year-old kid is giving you sass, he probably is not physically positioned where you can reach his backside. Based on the information in the OP, that is the picture I get. Wrong, but not abusive.
Now what could change my mind and cause me to agree that it was abusive? If I had more facts that indicated the mom was not truly concerned about her son's character development but instead was really annoyed at being awaken in the middle of the night by his conversation.
In those two scenarios the action did not change. But the first one is an attempt to communicate that she cares about what he is doing with his life; the second one tells him that he is less important than her beauty rest. One is abusive to his spirit and the other is not.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 9:06:44 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
There are worse things than the level of physical abuse that has been shown in the OP.
After 40 plus years I would list physical abuse as one of the worst evils in society, esp. when it involves children so I can't begin to empathize with anyone who excuses it away.
NOBODY deserves abuse...and for you to say the "boy provoked it" does not make it excusable.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 10:56:29 AM
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sen10tious
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buckifn,
I never expected to be able to convince you otherwise. But all those of us who have been victims of the treachery of verbal abuse at the hands of devious and vituperuous people who are "far too nice and civilized" to ever slap someone will hope for your sake that you can live another 40 years and still not know what we mean.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 11:16:24 AM
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shadowspring
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HesallIneed,
Ask God for big things! He might say "yes"!
A year and a half a ago a young man came into the fringes of our life. He also was in an abusive situation. He despaired of life.
Every day we prayed for him as a family. I asked God to please make a way for him to come and live with us and home school. He's brilliant- but there was no way he could finish public school due to family issues.
All the family issues are too long and complicated to explain here. But long story short, he came to church with us almost every Sunday (except when he was grounded-but God moved him out of that home to the other biological parent, who though not following God, allowed him to go to church every week) for over a year. On December 11th of this past year he moved in with us, with his mother's permission, and he will graduate with our home school association May 17th.
Pray, pray, pray, and love, love, love! Love the boy, and love his messed up family. Don't try to figure it all out, just make your requests (wild as they may seem) known to God in prayer, patiently forgive love and offer to all the hope of the gospel, and who knows where this young man will be in a year, or two, or three?!?
< Message edited by shadowspring -- 4/14/2008 11:22:49 AM >
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 11:30:25 AM
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April75
Posts: 349
Status: offline
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Don't have much time right now and have to go back and re-read some posts. I only scanned through them.
In a way I believe being at home with his mom twin and younger brother he would receive more love than in a youth crisis center. From what I see he has a good relationship with his twin but it seems the mother has recruited him in a way against his brother. He seems to be telling things that his mom wouldnt normally know. Things that happen amongst their peers(trivial things). His mom is kinda added those things up to say the child is really like she's saying. Some friends once said the boy had changed, told the brother and he told his mom. Another thing a friend(a girl but just a friend) doesnt always agree with him on things and he doesn't like it. So the twin told the mom that. She taking that to mean it's truly that he's an unruly child and doesn't like when people don't see it his way. There are some other things but little stuff.
He's not abused all the time physically but I'm sure some emotionally. He is friends with his mom and I 've seen them interact. She is loving in some ways to them. She cooks for them everyday, makes sure their clean, the house is clean, they go to bed at a decent time and makes sure their off to school -doing their homework. She's involved in that way.
The other part of her is she picks with him as well as everyone else. The way he dresses and the way he acts. She will get the other twin to agree agree. She's like that with everyone. She doesn't bite her tongue for much.
He is still a child she has kept them pretty sheltered. I don't think being emancipated would be right for him. He still has some growing to do. She told me the other day she came home and he was crying to himself but said nothing was wrong. That he still isn't really discussing much with her.
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 11:43:41 AM
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shadowspring
Posts: 1595
Joined: 5/27/2006
Status: offline
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Being a Christian and having a child's character as your main concern DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT ABUSIVE!
If you ridicule, speak words of failure and heartache over your children, beat them, torture them (cold showers, isolation, locking up access to food), purposely cause them to hope for something good just so you can snatch it away in punishment later- i.e. ABUSE YOUR CHILD, your motivation and your personal faith in God in no way excuse your abuse.
Your child'sheart should be your concern, as a Christian parent, far above and beyond his/her outward behavior. God will judge all such parents for the damage they do.
Edited to take out a personal story I referenced without permission from all involved- Sorry! 
< Message edited by shadowspring -- 4/14/2008 12:33:11 PM >
_____________________________
"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost..." -J. R. R. Tolkien
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RE: 16 and put in youth crisis center - 4/14/2008 12:10:10 PM
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April75
Posts: 349
Status: offline
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Thanks Shadowspring,
This gives me hope. I want to just get him away from the environment some of the times. I'm trying to keep communication with his mom to stay in the situation so I can be there for them both. I hugged her and told her the next time come to my house or bring him if something happens. She said ok. Him moving to another persons home is not even in the picture at this point. I don't even know how to bring that subject up to her yet and I haven't discussed him staying with us with my husband yet.
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