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A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 12:33:06 AM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
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Hello all :) I have 2 questions.
1) My fiancee, is Shinto, so obviously he is not Christian. He was brought up by traditional parents, and he himself is a traditional Japanese male in most aspects. So me trying to convert him to Christianity is completely out of the question. That would be, more or less, like I'm saying his country's traditions and beliefs are bad and that I refuse to let him follow tradition. I am curious as to whether or not this will cause problems in the relationship? I doubt we will bring up religion in conversation much, if any at all. He doesn't mind that I'm Christian, I don't mind that he's Shinto. To me, it's a personal choice. I won't confront him about his religious choices because of my beliefs of everybody choosing what religion is right for them. So I also will not pray for his salvation, because again it is his choice to make, not mine. I just hope not praying for him or anything won't do any damage to my relationship with God and Christ, would it? I mean really, would it? Since we feel the same about people choosing their own beliefs, I don't really suppose it would cause any conflict between us. Even about raising the children, I am going to educate them about all the different religions there are, and let them decide for themselves what religion they want to be. There are, however, some religions that are completely out of the question until they are out of my house. Hrm, I hope I don't come across as looking for the impossible here. But there are a few things here to bear in mind. They are: I will not pray for his salvation, that's only hise choice to make; I will not purposefully try to set a good example for him so that maybe he will become Christian that's his choice to make, and to me that seems like it's sort of forcing him to make that choice; I won't try to talk to him about becoming Christian either. If he wants to he can. So, again, any problems with that as far as the Lord goes, or our relationship goes?
2) Dealing with his mother. His mother does not like me, at all. Because I'm white, because I have kids, because I'm not fluent in Japanese are her reasons. Is there any way I can get along with her in a Christian way? Any way I can help her to see that I'm really a good person?
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 12:42:22 AM
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WholeHeart
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Please, define what you mean when you say you are Christian.
If a Christian purposely marries a non-Christian, he or she is putting the relationship with that person above his or her relationship with God. The Bible says quite clearly not to do that. It also clearly says to set an example for an unbelieving spouse, in the case of an already married person becoming a Christian.
Which is more important to you, God or marriage? Remember the saying that a Christian marriage is like a triangle, with each spouse on one of the bottom corners and God on the top one. The closer each spouse is to God, the closer they are to each other. What you are talking about sounds more like a crooked line than a triangle, and it will drag you down.
Also, if you really love this person, why would you not pray for him? The idea that every person should choose their own belief is a sharp contrast to what the Bible says. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NIV
< Message edited by WholeHeart -- 5/30/2008 1:06:14 AM >
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 1:20:28 AM
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1mlasp
Posts: 204
Joined: 12/9/2005
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quote:
...because of my beliefs of everybody choosing what religion is right for them. This essentially means that people are their own god and that there is no absolute truth. This is a new age lie - one I myself believed for a long time before I matured in Christ.
I urge you to explore Christianity more and figure out what you really believe and why you believe it before even considering marriage.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 1:37:53 AM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WholeHeart
Please, define what you mean when you say you are Christian.
If a Christian purposely marries a non-Christian, he or she is putting the relationship with that person above his or her relationship with God. The Bible says quite clearly not to do that. It also clearly says to set an example for an unbelieving spouse, in the case of an already married person becoming a Christian.
Which is more important to you, God or marriage? Remember the saying that a Christian marriage is like a triangle, with each spouse on one of the bottom corners and God on the top one. The closer each spouse is to God, the closer they are to each other. What you are talking about sounds more like a crooked line than a triangle, and it will drag you down.
Also, if you really love this person, why would you not pray for him? The idea that every person should choose their own belief is a sharp contrast to what the Bible says. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NIV
I recall reading in another thread (credit goes to crh737) that the Bible says in 1 Corinthian "ICorth7:12 But to the rest I, not the Lord say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. v13 And let any woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he be willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.
v14 If the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: otherwise your children would be unclean, but now are holy." But I will respond to all of your comments individually.
"Please, define what you mean when you say you are Christian."
What I mean is that I pray (and by that I mean I pray a lot!), I study the Bible, I have accepted Christ, and I want to live as Christian a life as possible for me.
"If a Christian purposely marries a non-Christian, he or she is putting the relationship with that person above his or her relationship with God. The Bible says quite clearly not to do that. It also clearly says to set an example for an unbelieving spouse, in the case of an already married person becoming a Christian."
We have been engaged for over a year now, and I just recently became Christian (as in 2 1/2 weeks ago). I have been in love with him since way before I became a Christian. I can't just tell him that I can't be with him because it's not acceptable, he probably wouldn't ever speak to me again. But for me, I am not putting our relationship before God. I truly feel as if He wants us to be together, but I cannot just shun his traditions and act like they are nothing. I am always respectful of others beliefs, and I don't force my beliefs upon them. That was just the way I was brought up. I don't even understand how to set a good example. Even if I was to set a good example, I doubt he'd understand it because he has never read the bible in his life.
"Which is more important to you, God or marriage? Remember the saying that a Christian marriage is like a triangle, with each spouse on one of the bottom corners and God on the top one. The closer each spouse is to God, the closer they are to each other. What you are talking about sounds more like a crooked line than a triangle, and it will drag you down."
I've never heard that saying until now.  And, again, it's not really about marriage for me. It's about being with who I feel I am supposed to be with. Who I am in love with, and will probably be the only person I'll ever be this much in love with. Am I supposed to just ignore my feelings, how I was raised, and my morals? I can't do that. I also cannot throw him to the side like that. Nor can I pressure him to believe something he doesn't want to believe. I am far from a traditional Christian, and I always will be. There is too much to follow, and I will never be able to follow everything I should follow. I've already committed many sins. I thought that if we sin, as long as we are repentant of those sins, and pray for forgiveness that we will be OK. Is that not correct? I don't see why it would be sinful for me to marry somebody I've already given my heart to, despite his religion. I don't see why it would be sinful for me to follow my heart. Is God not merciful? Is God not all loving and understanding? I believe he is. So I believe I can be a child of God, and be married to the one man that I love with all my heart, the man that holds my heart. Because He is understanding, and He is loving. That is why He sent Christ down for us as well, to cleanse us of their sins. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I refuse to believe that He will love me any less, or be there for me any less, or that He will shun me just because of who I marry. He has a path already paved for everyone, and I am following the path He has paved for me. If I wasn't meant to be with my fiance, I would not be engaged to him, nor would I be so deeply in love with him.
" Also, if you really love this person, why would you not pray for him? The idea that every person should choose their own belief is a sharp contrast to what the Bible says. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6 NIV "
That goes back to the fact that I cannot force my beliefs on others. Praying for him means that God would interfere and help him find Him, and to me that's the same as me sitting there lecturing him about religion. It would be, essentially, to me, like forcing him to be a Christian, when he has no desire to.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 1:42:50 AM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1mlasp
quote:
...because of my beliefs of everybody choosing what religion is right for them. This essentially means that people are their own god and that there is no absolute truth. This is a new age lie - one I myself believed for a long time before I matured in Christ.
I urge you to explore Christianity more and figure out what you really believe and why you believe it before even considering marriage.
I know what I really believe, and I will always believe that. I would not have any friends if I went around telling everybody that their beliefs are false, and that they should be Christian. Because, truth be told, most of my friends are not Christian. No, it does not bother me, because up until 2 1/2 weeks ago I wasn't either. Some of them may be Christian in the future, some may never be Christian. Regardless, I'm not a missionary, and I'm not going to try to change my friends or my fiance and make them resent me for not respecting their beliefs.
I have been engaged to him for over a year, I don't think I'm going to go canceling my plans just so I can figure out what I believe or don't believe. We are both very desperate to be together in person for once, and I don't think he will be very accepting of me saying "Look, can we just cancel the wedding until I figure out what my beliefs are, etc. etc." He would probably be angry if I did that. I have an entire life ahead of me to figure out my beliefs, there's no need for me to rush into it.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 5:18:05 AM
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agapetos
Posts: 5539
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
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quote:
I refuse to let him follow tradition And you ask if this is going to cause problems in the marriage?
Probably yes, it will cause problems ~ not at first, but at some point the chances are good that it will. What happens if he decided that as you were following your religion, he has the right to follow his? Or what happens if he decided that as he was forbidden from following one of his traditions, you should be forbidden from following yours.
quote:
Even about raising the children, I am going to educate them about all the different religions there are, and let them decide for themselves what religion they want to be. There are, however, some religions that are completely out of the question until they are out of my house. Having your children understand that there are other religions is one thing, but you need to let them know that the only one they should be following is Christianity ~ and it doesn't sound like you are.
quote:
I know what I really believe, and I will always believe that. I would not have any friends if I went around telling everybody that their beliefs are false, and that they should be Christian. It's not always a case of telling someone that their belief is 'false'. I've talked to people who aren't Christian and told them what I believe about something. People have to decide for themselves but they need to know about something before they decide.
quote:
He would probably be angry if I did that. I have an entire life ahead of me to figure out my beliefs, there's no need for me to rush into it. Surely better to postpone the wedding then get married and end up in a bad relationship for life, or getting divorced.
As for your entire life ~ how long would that be exactly? We assume that we're never going to die soon, but we don't know that.
Seems to me that you ahve things a little mixed up. Marriage isn't something that you rush into, sorting out what you belief needs to be a priority.
_____________________________
I could give up chocolate ~ but I'm no quitter!
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 6:17:26 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: purplepixie87
I recall reading in another thread (credit goes to crh737) that the Bible says in 1 Corinthian "ICorth7:12 But to the rest I, not the Lord say: If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. v13 And let any woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he be willing to live with her, let her not divorce him.
v14 If the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: otherwise your children would be unclean, but now are holy." But I will respond to all of your comments individually.
Did you also see my response to this Scripture reference (just in case you think it means the unbeliever is made holy or eternally sanctified by marriage to the believer)? It really has absolutely nothing to do with that and and more concerns the lawfulness of the marriage and the legitimacy of the children produced from that type of a union. It in no way encourages a believer to marry and unbeliever.
I also spoke of the whole concept of a Christian marrying an unbeliever and how wrong it is in the eyes of the Lord.
Here it is my post, in case you missed it:
quote:
Here is the exposition by John Gill on these verses:
"The right rendering of the passage is this: "for the unbelieving husband is espoused to the wife, and the unbelieving wife is espoused to the husband"; they are duly, rightly, and legally espoused to each other; and therefore ought not, notwithstanding their different sentiments of religion, to separate from one another; otherwise, if this is not the case, if they are not truly married to one another, this consequence must necessarily follow; that the children born in such a state of cohabitation, where the marriage is not valid, must be spurious, and not legitimate, and which is the sense of the following words: else were your children unclean, but now are they holy; that is, if the marriage contracted between them in their state of infidelity was not valid, and, since the conversion of one of them, can never be thought to be good; then the children begotten and born, either when both were infidels, or since one of them was converted, must be unlawfully begotten, be base born, and not a genuine legitimate offspring; and departure upon such a foot would be declaring to all the world that their children were illegitimate; which would have been a sad case indeed, and contains in it another reason why they ought to keep together; whereas, as the apostle has put it, the children are holy in the same sense as their parents are; that as they are sanctified, or lawfully espoused together, so the children born of them were in a civil and legal sense holy, that is, legitimate; wherefore to support the validity of their marriage, and for the credit of their children, it was absolutely necessary they should abide with one another."
The bottom line is that in marrying an unbeliever you are in direct disobedience to God's Word:
14 "Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you* are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." 17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you." II Corinthians 12
Do a search in the marriage folder of the problems and suffering many marrieds experience as a direct result of being married to an unbeliever. I also am a biblical counselor for women and I cannot count the number of women I have counseled that wish they could go back and undo their decision to marry their unbelieving husbands. You may trivialize the enormity of this issue now, but you have no idea how negatively it impacts a marriage.
Edited to correct spelling.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 5/30/2008 6:26:01 AM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 6:24:10 AM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
I refuse to let him follow tradition And you ask if this is going to cause problems in the marriage?
Probably yes, it will cause problems ~ not at first, but at some point the chances are good that it will. What happens if he decided that as you were following your religion, he has the right to follow his? Or what happens if he decided that as he was forbidden from following one of his traditions, you should be forbidden from following yours.
I think you read it wrong. :) "So me trying to convert him to Christianity is completely out of the question. That would be, more or less, like I'm saying his country's traditions and beliefs are bad and that I refuse to let him follow tradition." is what I said. I will and do let him follow his own traditions and beliefs. He knows I'm Christian now, and he accepts that. I would never actually refuse to let him follow his own traditions. I was using that as an example, because that's how it would make me feel.
quote:
quote:
Even about raising the children, I am going to educate them about all the different religions there are, and let them decide for themselves what religion they want to be. There are, however, some religions that are completely out of the question until they are out of my house. Having your children understand that there are other religions is one thing, but you need to let them know that the only one they should be following is Christianity ~ and it doesn't sound like you are.
I didn't say that I wouldn't let them know that I feel they should be Christian. All I said was that they can decide what religion they want to be, I never once said that I wouldn't tell them what I feel and that they should only be following Christianity. However, if I was to not let them explore other religions and decide on their own, that would be me making a hypocrite of myself.
quote:
quote:
I know what I really believe, and I will always believe that. I would not have any friends if I went around telling everybody that their beliefs are false, and that they should be Christian. It's not always a case of telling someone that their belief is 'false'. I've talked to people who aren't Christian and told them what I believe about something. People have to decide for themselves but they need to know about something before they decide.
All of my friends know what I believe about almost anything. They all know that I'm more or less an open book when it comes to my beliefs, I am very outspoken when it comes to them. :) Be it faith, health, whatever. :)
quote:
quote:
He would probably be angry if I did that. I have an entire life ahead of me to figure out my beliefs, there's no need for me to rush into it. Surely better to postpone the wedding then get married and end up in a bad relationship for life, or getting divorced.
As for your entire life ~ how long would that be exactly? We assume that we're never going to die soon, but we don't know that.
Seems to me that you ahve things a little mixed up. Marriage isn't something that you rush into, sorting out what you belief needs to be a priority.
I understand where you are coming from with what you're saying here. But, for us, we are both completely understanding about the other's beliefs and faith. Neither of us mind what the other believes about anything, really. We've had like two boulders to walk over, and those were over my personal parenting decisions that I decided on before he came into the picture. Everything else we decide together. The only major difference between us is difference in religion, but since we are both very respectful of the other's beliefs, we shouldn't have a problem with that aspect. We are very close, despite not living together yet.
If I was to postpone the wedding, it could be another 2 or 3 or 4 or more years before he could come to help me get all the necessary documents and take me to his country for us to be wed. He almost always has a busy schedule. And the only visa I can get is a spouse visa.
I'm not rushing into marriage, we've known each other for 3 years. We both know almost everything about the other. Seriously, the only belief I see on debate here is my belief that only the person can decide what religion to follow. And that's one belief I will always stick to, regardless of what anybody else thinks. Almost everybody learns how they feel about various beliefs or whatever over time, what may be a belief at one point in your life, 30 years down the road might change. So, am I really supposed to hold off the wedding for 30 years just waiting for my beliefs to change? It's not going to happen anytime soon, and I'm not holding off marrying the man I love and know I should be with, and preventing us from possibly having children, because of nothing more than beliefs. I have the most important beliefs, and that's all that should count. So what if I feel that only the person can choose their religion? You more or less agreed with me in your post, that only the person can choose religion. And really, am I supposed to nitpick over every little aspect of life to see how I feel about this or that? I already worry over everything and give myself anxiety attacks, I really don't want to have a nervous breakdown trying to find beliefs for every single aspect of life. I prefer to keep them simple, and only have set in stone beliefs about the more important things. I feel that my beliefs are most likely set in stone. I have held the same beliefs and morals for the past 6 years, and I highly doubt they'll go changing anytime soon.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 6:38:56 AM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
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Kat_D, I understand that. That's what everybody is trying to say, and I understood it with the first post. Am I supposed to drive myself to do extremely unholy acts just because in the eyes of the Lord I should not marry the man that I know is right for me? The only person that has ever really truly made me happy, aside from my children and God? The only person that I will ever love to such an extent that I would literally jump in front of a train to save his life? If I can't marry him, I won't marry anybody. That would lead to fornicating to a mass amount, or it may lead to suicide. I'm leaning more towards the latter, since I simply cannot survive without him, I am that deeply in love with him. I know that God is loving and understanding and all-knowing, so I do not understand WHY he would try to set a rule like that in place. You cannot control who you fall in love with, especially not if it's true love. There is absolutely no chance of him changing his beliefs. He doesn't believe in the Christian belief system, but he supports me in any decision I make. That, to me, is way more important in a relationship than religion. Having that support there.
I'm sorry that your clients are going through so much trouble. But honestly, I don't really care what religion he is. It's his choice to make, not mine. I don't think I would ever want to undo marrying him, because why on earth would I want to lose such an amazing person? To me, it wouldn't impact our marriage at all, unless either A) I tried to convert him or B) he tried to convert me. Actually, I KNOW it won't. I don't care if he doesn't go to church with me--I don't even go to church because I simply don't have the time to go. I honestly do not understand how something as minor and trivial as religious differences can impact a marriage. It doesn't make any sense to me, and I have quite a few relatives and friends in inter-religious relationships, and they are doing just fine in them. All but one couple are happy. This may sound horrible, but...I'm not throwing my happiness out the window and essentially crucifying myself just because God may or may not like the fact that I'm marrying my fiance.
For me to have even found somebody that will be with me, and love me despite all my faults, is a feat in and of itself. With me having 3 children, with different fathers, it is difficult to find somebody that accepts that and will love me and my children, despite my horrible past. I have found that person, and I refuse to give him up.
I made this post just to see what the general consensus was Biblically wise on inter-religious relationships, I didn't want to be lectured and felt like I was being ripped to shreds for loving somebody that isn't a Christian. If I have to pray more to make God happy, so be it, I will do so. I thought in finding God I was finding somebody that is accepting and loving towards all. That's what I was always taught, that's what I've always read. Why should I live in fear, when there is no cause to do so? I mean really, right now I'm beginning to feel as though my entire faith system that I have built up in the past 2 weeks is just falling apart. And I don't like it. 
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 10:19:38 AM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 795
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
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Welcome and I hope I don't offend you.
A couple of things jump out right away. Being a Christian is about "relationship" not about "religion". That means you are not shoving anything down his face, you are simply living your life as a believer which is a witness even if you choose it not to be.
The verse you quote in Corinthians is for people who are already married, not people engaged. The verse in John means Jesus is the only way to salvation. The Bible clearly says we are to share the gospel with the world and that means your finance.
Where do you draw the line with accepting everyone's beliefs and religions? People are currently killing in the name of religion.
When you marry the man, you marry the family. Not getting along with his mother willl affect your life married life.
Last, do you think you could be too dependent on him for your happiness and well being? Saying you would sleep around or kill youself without him is not healthy. I am very much in love with my husband but I certainly wouldn't kill myself if something happened to him and he wouldn't want me to.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 11:08:19 AM
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Wild-Rose
Posts: 426
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Upstate NY
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quote:
I didn't want to be lectured and felt like I was being ripped to shreds for loving somebody that isn't a Christian.
Nobody is ripping you to shreds. You asked some questions and people are answering. Perhaps you don't like the answers but nobody is ripping you to shreds.
Nobody has a problem with the fact that you love him. We are just warning you to not marry him. This was clearly one of your questions that you asked.
quote I am curious as to whether or not this will cause problems in the relationship?
_____________________________
Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 11:15:52 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
I made this post just to see what the general consensus was Biblically wise on inter-religious relationships,
And I told you what the Bible says, didn't I?
quote:
I didn't want to be lectured and felt like I was being ripped to shreds for loving somebody that isn't a Christian.
I didn't lecture you...I told you what God's Word says about being in an unequally yoked relationship. I'm sorry you perceived it as a "lecture." But, you are the one who came here to ask...perhaps you just didn't like the answer and were only looking for an affirmation of what you want to do.
quote:
If I have to pray more to make God happy, so be it, I will do so. I thought in finding God I was finding somebody that is accepting and loving towards all. That's what I was always taught, that's what I've always read. Why should I live in fear, when there is no cause to do so?
You can pray until the cows come home and God will never bless actions that are in direct opposition to His Word. God is accepting and loving towards all, but He will never condone sin and once you become His, He makes the rules (they are found in the Bible) and He expects us to obey them. Those rules were made with His concern for our best.
quote:
I mean really, right now I'm beginning to feel as though my entire faith system that I have built up in the past 2 weeks is just falling apart. And I don't like it.
I'm sorry you don't like it...it is hard to be a Christian, that's why Jesus wants us to count the cost before we enter in to a relationship with Him.
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." -Matthew 7
I understand that you saw my post as unloving, but may I ask you...would it be more loving for me to say what you want to hear, i.e., "Yes, by all means, do what you want to do and proceed into marriage with this unbeliever," when I know that it is against God's Word and is out of His will for your life and will likely lead to heartache for you. Or, would warning you about the danger of such a relationship be the far more loving thing to do?
God loves you and wants the very best for your life. If you walk in obedience to His Word you can never go wrong. That is His will for you.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 1:04:26 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1081
Joined: 4/29/2005
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I think you are getting mixed up between two ideas
Your first idea that it is an individual's own choice if they ever come to God through faith in Jesus Christ. That's true.
Your second idea is that it is wrong of you to use your absolute maximum influence in your relationships with the people that you love to change their minds (in order to keep them from dying) That's not true... and here's why:
You said you would jump in front of a train for your finance. That's beautiful... and important. Because if you really believe that faith in Jesus is the only way to reconciliation with God, which results in eternal life, then you have to know that there really is a freight train headed straight for him.
If you love him, certainly you respect him, but you don't just let him die, do you?
So if respect, and calm conversations and your deeply loving influence are the best way to draw him to Jesus, that's a good plan. (It's not like you have to sit down today and tell him how wrong he is and brutally confront him with eternal truth... he is wrong, but there are better ways to show him.) But if you respect his beliefs enough to let him suffer forever, never knowing the love of God, just because he thinks he's got a good enough answer on the question of religion, without doing your best to show him a better way... that's not very nice is it?
It's the same with your kids - of course they will decide for themselves, but a mom who loves them does her best to have maximum impact on their lives, so that they are most likely to believe the one and only truth that will grant them eternity and the love of the God who created them. It's not fair to tell them, "You know, you have a Creator who loves you and wants you to live forever... but if you'd rather not, no big deal to me. Just go ahead and reject His love and His life and live in rebellion against Him until your earthly life dwindles to nothing." Doesn't that bother you at all?
About marriage, God's "rules" are all about His love for you. It is deeply painful to share life and soul with someone who's deepest motives are not the same as yours. You exist to glorify God. He runs his life to suit himself and the values he likes to agree with. It's going to tear you apart. It's going to tear your kids apart. It's going to cripple you becoming the true self that God wants you to become in Him. God is telling you (through the Bible) not marry an unbeliever because the pain of letting go is less than the pain of holding on and having it eat away at you for 60 years.
Romantic love is pretty intense, but it's not the all consuming universal force that you seem to think it is... and it does come up again in new relationships. Celibacy is pretty difficult, but it's not impossible. Give some thought to how powerful and how valuable you are as a child of God.
< Message edited by pbaribeault -- 5/30/2008 1:11:00 PM >
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 4:39:51 PM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline
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To everyone, I apologize for my rash and harsh posts last night. I was feeling really touchy and the littlest things upset me.
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ORIGINAL: Szaftoo
A couple of things jump out right away. Being a Christian is about "relationship" not about "religion". That means you are not shoving anything down his face, you are simply living your life as a believer which is a witness even if you choose it not to be.
The thing is, I don't know even how to be a witness. Really, what does this involve? I honestly do not know.
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The verse you quote in Corinthians is for people who are already married, not people engaged.
Yes I understand that. But we are engaged because of our deep love for one another, and in our minds we are already married. We already, when talking about the other, call him/her "my husband" or "my wife"
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The verse in John means Jesus is the only way to salvation. The Bible clearly says we are to share the gospel with the world and that means your finance.
Yes, but how would I do that without seeming like I'm trying to make decisions for him? Read biblical stories to the children while he's in the same room? Hang crosses and crucifixes everywhere in the house?
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Where do you draw the line with accepting everyone's beliefs and religions? People are currently killing in the name of religion.
Yes, I know. And I don't like it one bit, but there isn't really much I can do for it. I also know in many countries Christianity is strictly forbidden by law.
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When you marry the man, you marry the family. Not getting along with his mother willl affect your life married life.
I know this, and that's why I was wanting ways to help get along with her. I'm not the one that doesn't want to like the other, she's the one that doesn't want to like me for ridiculous reasons. It doesn't really matter that I'm American, or that I already have kids, or that I don't speak fluent Japanese. My fiance loves me anyways, and you would think that she would respect that and respect his wishes to marry who he loves. Only, she doesn't. It upsets me, because I wanted to be close to her. I may have a lot of work to do to get her to accept me and be friends with me, but I really want to be close to her. As I was never close to my mother, being close to my mother-in-law, whom is more or less my mother, would be a good thing for me.
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Last, do you think you could be too dependent on him for your happiness and well being? Saying you would sleep around or kill youself without him is not healthy. I am very much in love with my husband but I certainly wouldn't kill myself if something happened to him and he wouldn't want me to.
Perhaps I am. But, he's the world to me. He is one of the very very few people that have made me feel truly happy. Being with him has made me the happiest I've been in ages.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 4:50:09 PM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
And I told you what the Bible says, didn't I?
Yes, and thank you for telling me that.
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I didn't lecture you...I told you what God's Word says about being in an unequally yoked relationship. I'm sorry you perceived it as a "lecture." But, you are the one who came here to ask...perhaps you just didn't like the answer and were only looking for an affirmation of what you want to do.
Yes, I understand that. Last night I was overly emotional and the littlest things upset me.
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You can pray until the cows come home and God will never bless actions that are in direct opposition to His Word. God is accepting and loving towards all, but He will never condone sin and once you become His, He makes the rules (they are found in the Bible) and He expects us to obey them. Those rules were made with His concern for our best.
Maybe so, but I'm not good with rules. Never have been, never will. I know I will always be breaking rules, that's why I'm glad that He will forgive us even if He doesn't bless us. I understand that the rules were made with His concern for our best, but when do we start being able to decide what's best for us? I know God knows us better than we know ourselves, but He would not have put me down this path for nothing. I wouldn't be engaged to my fiance if there wasn't a purpose for it. Everything in life has a purpose, everything. I strongly believe that.
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I'm sorry you don't like it...it is hard to be a Christian, that's why Jesus wants us to count the cost before we enter in to a relationship with Him.
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." -Matthew 7
It's hard to be anything, truth be told. :) I honestly don't see any cost in it. For the simple fact that there isn't anything I am willing to give up, other than things I know that He greatly frowns upon. There are some things I will give up, others I will not.
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I understand that you saw my post as unloving, but may I ask you...would it be more loving for me to say what you want to hear, i.e., "Yes, by all means, do what you want to do and proceed into marriage with this unbeliever," when I know that it is against God's Word and is out of His will for your life and will likely lead to heartache for you. Or, would warning you about the danger of such a relationship be the far more loving thing to do?
I think the latter. I apologize for seeming harsh with my previous posts, I did not mean to insinuate that any of you were guilty of not being loving in your posts.
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God loves you and wants the very best for your life. If you walk in obedience to His Word you can never go wrong. That is His will for you.
Yes, I understand that. But I can't be obedient of everything He says, He expects us to sin, otherwise He would not have sent down His Son for our salvation.
After giving it some thought, I have come to the conclusion that I will pray for him, I will do Christian things in front of him and around him (because really, I pray all the time) etc. Hoping one day he will come to see God as well.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 4:58:09 PM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
I think you are getting mixed up between two ideas
Your first idea that it is an individual's own choice if they ever come to God through faith in Jesus Christ. That's true.
Yes, I know.
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Your second idea is that it is wrong of you to use your absolute maximum influence in your relationships with the people that you love to change their minds (in order to keep them from dying) That's not true... and here's why:
You said you would jump in front of a train for your finance. That's beautiful... and important. Because if you really believe that faith in Jesus is the only way to reconciliation with God, which results in eternal life, then you have to know that there really is a freight train headed straight for him.
But the thing is, I really WANT him to be Christian, I really want him to have faith. But I don't know how to go about doing it respectfully. I mentioned that in another post of mine I just posted in the past few minutes.
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If you love him, certainly you respect him, but you don't just let him die, do you?
Good heavens no! I don't want to lose him, and of course I want to spend my eternal life with him. Really the only thing I can do right now is to pray for him, and have hope that he will see the light.
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So if respect, and calm conversations and your deeply loving influence are the best way to draw him to Jesus, that's a good plan. (It's not like you have to sit down today and tell him how wrong he is and brutally confront him with eternal truth... he is wrong, but there are better ways to show him.) But if you respect his beliefs enough to let him suffer forever, never knowing the love of God, just because he thinks he's got a good enough answer on the question of religion, without doing your best to show him a better way... that's not very nice is it?
That does make sense, but I don't really know how to draw him to Jesus while still respecting his beliefs. Praying for him and maybe open bible reading with the kids, but other than that it would seem as if I am forcing my religion upon him. Wouldn't it? I'm really lost as to what to do to help him.
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It's the same with your kids - of course they will decide for themselves, but a mom who loves them does her best to have maximum impact on their lives, so that they are most likely to believe the one and only truth that will grant them eternity and the love of the God who created them. It's not fair to tell them, "You know, you have a Creator who loves you and wants you to live forever... but if you'd rather not, no big deal to me. Just go ahead and reject His love and His life and live in rebellion against Him until your earthly life dwindles to nothing." Doesn't that bother you at all?
I would never say that. I just said that I would be accepting if they chose otherwise, knowing that I did my best to teach them the truth.
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About marriage, God's "rules" are all about His love for you. It is deeply painful to share life and soul with someone who's deepest motives are not the same as yours. You exist to glorify God. He runs his life to suit himself and the values he likes to agree with. It's going to tear you apart. It's going to tear your kids apart. It's going to cripple you becoming the true self that God wants you to become in Him. God is telling you (through the Bible) not marry an unbeliever because the pain of letting go is less than the pain of holding on and having it eat away at you for 60 years.
Yes, and that is why I came to the decision of praying for him and doing whatever I can to help him. Even if it takes years, I will still do whatever it takes.
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Romantic love is pretty intense, but it's not the all consuming universal force that you seem to think it is... and it does come up again in new relationships. Celibacy is pretty difficult, but it's not impossible. Give some thought to how powerful and how valuable you are as a child of God.
For me celibacy is almost impossible, and I haven't had a relationship in years before this one. :) It's very hard for a single mother of 3 to find somebody to love her and accept her regardless of her past, and that's what I have found with my fiance. Especially so for Christians. I don't even know how to find a relationship or anything lol. I really want to stay with who I am with now, without delaying anything because we have already delayed it for far too long. One of the biggest factors in us marrying as soon as possible is to get me out of an abusive household, and get me as far away as possible. He is not moving here, but rather I am moving to live with him in Tokyo. Where he has lived his entire life.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 7:01:44 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: purplepixie87
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
And I told you what the Bible says, didn't I?
Yes, and thank you for telling me that.
quote:
I didn't lecture you...I told you what God's Word says about being in an unequally yoked relationship. I'm sorry you perceived it as a "lecture." But, you are the one who came here to ask...perhaps you just didn't like the answer and were only looking for an affirmation of what you want to do.
Yes, I understand that. Last night I was overly emotional and the littlest things upset me.
quote:
You can pray until the cows come home and God will never bless actions that are in direct opposition to His Word. God is accepting and loving towards all, but He will never condone sin and once you become His, He makes the rules (they are found in the Bible) and He expects us to obey them. Those rules were made with His concern for our best.
Maybe so, but I'm not good with rules. Never have been, never will. I know I will always be breaking rules, that's why I'm glad that He will forgive us even if He doesn't bless us. I understand that the rules were made with His concern for our best, but when do we start being able to decide what's best for us? I know God knows us better than we know ourselves, but He would not have put me down this path for nothing. I wouldn't be engaged to my fiance if there wasn't a purpose for it. Everything in life has a purpose, everything. I strongly believe that.
quote:
I'm sorry you don't like it...it is hard to be a Christian, that's why Jesus wants us to count the cost before we enter in to a relationship with Him.
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." -Matthew 7
It's hard to be anything, truth be told. :) I honestly don't see any cost in it. For the simple fact that there isn't anything I am willing to give up, other than things I know that He greatly frowns upon. There are some things I will give up, others I will not.
quote:
I understand that you saw my post as unloving, but may I ask you...would it be more loving for me to say what you want to hear, i.e., "Yes, by all means, do what you want to do and proceed into marriage with this unbeliever," when I know that it is against God's Word and is out of His will for your life and will likely lead to heartache for you. Or, would warning you about the danger of such a relationship be the far more loving thing to do?
I think the latter. I apologize for seeming harsh with my previous posts, I did not mean to insinuate that any of you were guilty of not being loving in your posts.
quote:
God loves you and wants the very best for your life. If you walk in obedience to His Word you can never go wrong. That is His will for you.
Yes, I understand that. But I can't be obedient of everything He says, He expects us to sin, otherwise He would not have sent down His Son for our salvation.
After giving it some thought, I have come to the conclusion that I will pray for him, I will do Christian things in front of him and around him (because really, I pray all the time) etc. Hoping one day he will come to see God as well.
I am so sorry to hear this. If you are bent on having your way and doing something that is in direct defiance of God's Word, there is really not much more I can say other than to warn you that you are treading on some very dangerous ground. If you now, knowing what God's Word says, continue in this relationship and marry this man, you will be engaging in willful disobedience against God and that is a scary thing to do. I will pray for you in the hopes that you will reconsider.
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 5/30/2008 7:08:51 PM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 8:22:27 PM
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purplepixie87
Posts: 87
Joined: 5/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I am so sorry to hear this. If you are bent on having your way and doing something that is in direct defiance of God's Word, there is really not much more I can say other than to warn you that you are treading on some very dangerous ground. If you now, knowing what God's Word says, continue in this relationship and marry this man, you will be engaging in willful disobedience against God and that is a scary thing to do. I will pray for you in the hopes that you will reconsider.
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Am I supposed to die lonely? I mean really, because any respectable Christian man will not marry a woman that already has children. Most men run far away from women with children. Honestly, many many people get into mixed religion marriages, and many people are happy in them. Why can't I be happy with mine as well? It could be a long long time, or never, that he becomes Christian. As I said in my previous post, and I am going to quote that directly " After giving it some thought, I have come to the conclusion that I will pray for him, I will do Christian things in front of him and around him (because really, I pray all the time) etc. Hoping one day he will come to see God as well."
Which means that I am going to try the only ways I know how to try and still remain respecting of his freedom of choice to help lead him to Christ. I honestly don't know how to do that, but I'm going to do whatever I can think of short of lecturing him and giving him a sermon because that would be stupid and foolish. With me being the only Christian he knows, I'm the only person that can do that. And if I told him to just postpone everything because my God says it's wrong, I know him, and I know he would take that the wrong way and he would probably never speak to me then. So then my chances of happiness are ruined. I've already said it, and I'll say it again the chance of me finding a Christian man to accept me and my 3 children are almost nothing. There is virtually NO chance of that happening. Especially not where I live. On the small chance there IS somebody that's already Christian out there, it could be 30 years before I ever meet him, and I know that I will never love him as much as I love my dear fiance. I will never love anybody as much as I love him. Forgive me for believing in destiny, and true love, but I know with him it IS destiny, it IS fated, and it IS true love. True love only happens once in a lifetime I'm not throwing a great thing out the window just because God said so. Instead, I am going to do my best to help my fiance come to see the light, and accept Jesus.
And you know what? I have a feeling that God wants me to be with him, God wants me to marry him despite His rules. Otherwise, I would not feel as strongly, I would not be sitting here praying to Him about it as I type this post. I would not feel as if I had His blessing in this marriage. And I DO feel as if I have His blessing in this. Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason for me to marry somebody that is not a Christian. Didn't you think of that? It may be because He has some divine plan for me to do over there, it may be for other reasons. I honestly do not know. But I feel as if I'm supposed to do this, as if God WANTS me to do this. I have spent the most of the day and most of the night last night praying on this, asking God to help me on this, to tell me what He feels. Guess what? I never once felt wrong in this, never once had a feeling that I should not do it. That's how I know I have His blessing. Otherwise He would have let me know that He does not want me to do this.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 8:38:48 PM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 795
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: purplepixie87
So then my chances of happiness are ruined. I've already said it, and I'll say it again the chance of me finding a Christian man to accept me and my 3 children are almost nothing. There is virtually NO chance of that happening. Especially not where I live.
Purple, with all due respect, this says it all. I wish you the best for you and your children.
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RE: A couple of questions - 5/30/2008 8:53:47 PM
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