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Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 1:08:56 PM
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SeminoleTom
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Someone on here a week or so ago said we don't want people depending on the government becuase they end up puting their trust in the government instead of Jesus. Good point.
That begs the question: are Christians required to help the poor? I know they will always be among us but are we expected to help them?
Thanks
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 1:21:43 PM
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Elena1030
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Expected... in the sense that in the Bible we are instructed to do so -- to give, to take care of, to pay attention to those who are poor? Yes.
But does that mean that in every situation giving to the poor is the priority? No, since Jesus Himself praised the lavish gift of the woman who bathed His feet with the perfumed oil she had (and could have sold and given the money to the poor) - sometimes in a situation the act of worship isn't going to involve giving to the poor, or at least not immediately. But that doesn't mean one isn't going to give and care and share later... as the Holy Spirit moves.
Does that mean that I as an individual Christian must set out to rid the world of poverty? No, for it would be a futile endeavor. Jesus said we'd always have the poor among us. And even if we were ever able to rid the world of any sort of complete destitution, the standard of poverty would just change. But we cannot rid the world of destitution, since we know from the Scriptures that fallen humanity will never be perfected without Christ, certainly not before His second coming.
Does that mean that the worldwide church at large has a duty to eradicate poverty? No. Our primary directive is in the Great Commission: make disciples - share the gospel and help others learn to obey Christ in all things, even as we are growing in our obedience to Him. Certainly, taking care of people's physical needs is part of caring for one another and living out love. But if we prioritize ridding the world of poverty over sharing the gospel and living love, then we'll have things backwards/topsy-turvy.
That said, though no individual Christ-follower can do all the work of the Kingdom, together we can. Scripture states that we need one another. Together we can take care of those who need it.
Not sure if that answered your underlying questions/concerns. And I hope what I said made sense! 
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 3:21:39 PM
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ushalk
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if you lay it down as a requirement then it becomes more like a job and religous than one being a cheerful giver as the word truly talks about. but i do not see how one that has a relationship with christ can not have that desire. i guess it is possible.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 8:01:54 PM
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x_SoliDeoGloria_x
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Consider what Jesus had to say about this in Matthew 25:31-46, or what James had to say in chapter 4. If we take seriously the comand to love our neighbor as ourself, shouldn't we be putting some effort into helping the poor? I think it's rather sad that many Christians get so worked up about trivial things such as whether a Christian can get a tattoo or go dancing at a nightclub, and so little attention is paid to what it would really mean to love our neighbor as ourself. People worry about what kind of damage it would do to their Christian witness if a nonChristian friend saw them drinking a beer, as if that would in any way offend a nonChristian. Maybe if he wanted to be a good witness, the Christian should invite his friend to go out for a beer with him to help him relax after spending the day working on building a house for Habitat for Humanity or volunteering at a food pantry.
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"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 8:09:23 PM
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SonInMe1
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Charity blesses the giver.
Charity, while certainly christian, is not a right.
Accepting charity should be the last resort, not the first easy answer.
Government uses charity to control people.
Christians should be charitable to selflessly, hopefully anonymously, show the love of Christ and to help people.
Charity should never be about guilt, about people who are well off who are ashamed of or made to feel guilty because they have and others do not.
The best kinds of charity should enable people to get out of their poverties, not keep them in poverty.
A job.
An intoxicant free life.
Morality.
Integrity.
The more you do life on your own terms, the more freedom and responsibility you have. You mature, change and spiritually grow.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 8:16:43 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
are Christians required to help the poor? I know they will always be among us but are we expected to help them?
The worthy poor, yes.
The lazy poor, no. "If any man will not work, neither let him eat."
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 10:04:15 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: x_SoliDeoGloria_x
Consider what Jesus had to say about this in Matthew 25:31-46, or what James had to say in chapter 4. If we take seriously the comand to love our neighbor as ourself, shouldn't we be putting some effort into helping the poor? I think it's rather sad that many Christians get so worked up about trivial things such as whether a Christian can get a tattoo or go dancing at a nightclub, and so little attention is paid to what it would really mean to love our neighbor as ourself. People worry about what kind of damage it would do to their Christian witness if a nonChristian friend saw them drinking a beer, as if that would in any way offend a nonChristian. Maybe if he wanted to be a good witness, the Christian should invite his friend to go out for a beer with him to help him relax after spending the day working on building a house for Habitat for Humanity or volunteering at a food pantry.
.
Amen bro.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 10:09:06 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Charity, while certainly christian, is not a right.
It is not a right that I have to receive it.
It is however, as a Christian, a duty I have to provide as best I can with what little wisdom I have on how best to do it. It's a duty I fear we Christians have emphasized to little and as a result much of the world views us as irrelevant. To me, that's the worst thing one could ever say about another.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/9/2010 11:36:19 PM
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thiricy
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To give to the poor and bless them as God has blessed us also. If we really see a poor person struggling and we have and yet we don't give, then the love of God is not in us.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/10/2010 3:39:37 AM
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gralan
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The majority of the "righteous" responses here to the question of are Christians required to help the poor proves to me again why I've seen such inactivity of believers in my life to respond to the needy even in their own churches.
Jesus said we have given him a cloak to wear, given him food to eat, visited him when He was sick and in prison when we did it to the least of these.
If the Christian community was doing its God-given job in this regard, no one would be asking the Government to do anything about it.
Its easy to stand and do nothing, especially if you require behavioral management in order to get aid.
Jesus laid none of those restrictions on His list.
Its time to wake up. Its time to get the world's messages out of our head. The world says "prove to me you are worthy". The world says "what is in it for us?" The world says "If you just did _____ you wouldn't be in this problem so go do _____ and you'll be alright."
I know, there are folks who will scream that I'm somehow being a leftist radical. Interestingly enough that is a false accusation that has been disproven to anyone's satisfaction if they cared to read the responses.
You do not have to help the poor. But that doesn't make it suddenly not a requirement. You do not have to assemble together either, but that doesn't mean you are obeying God when you do not gather together.
If you have two shirts, and your neighbor needs one, give it to them. This is what John the Baptist told folks who asked him what to do in response to God's grace.
If you don't want to follow the plain writing of the apostles, how about the last Old Testament prophet then?
_____________________________
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gralan,
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/10/2010 8:01:51 PM
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SonInMe1
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I am sorry but I will not be shamed into giving.
I am more interested in the solutions to poverty than making myself feel good ( or look good ) by giving just to give.
While we are certainly to be charitable, we also must be good stewards of tyhe gifts God gives us. Remember the parable of talents...not only didn't the one who invested poorly not blessed by God, he had his monies taken from him and given to the one who did.
Malachi 3:10...tithe and God will bless you.
Matthew 6:33...Seek God first and He will bless you
If all we do is throw money at poverty all we will ever have..is the maximum amount of poor people we can have.
If we let guilty and covetness control our charity, the poor will suffer.
One of the best things a christian can do to help people is...to start a business.
If your church is not helping its members...time to get a new church.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/10/2010 8:13:56 PM
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KaptZ
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If our faith doesn't ask us to consider our fellow human beings more than we otherwise would, then really, what is the point.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/10/2010 8:30:14 PM
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gralan
Posts: 2020
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From: RV in Texas
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SonInMe1,
Who is trying to shame you into anything?
You do what is within your faith as is between you and your Master. Paul in Romans makes this abundantly clear.
I'm hoping that you have not taken offense at my understanding of Scripture, but if so, please contact me so that we can try to straighten that out. It is not my intent or purpose to cause offense.
God is willing to provide graces to the righteous and the unrighteous. That means I need to extend them to my brothers and sisters in Christ most particularly.
Are you willing to meet with me off thread? If I've offended you, I will make corrections needed. But I'd like the opportunity to do so off thread if it is a personal slight that I've committed.
I'm not sure what part of helping the poor isn't covered by anything covered in your response. I'm not sure what made you think the solution is throwing money at any problem.
I would suggest it is possible to be coveteous of our possessions as well as our time, energy and of our willingness to take time to think about situations and pray about them, rather than just have a quick gut reaction to anything we initially find disturbing.
When did it become the responsibility of just a congregation to help other believers?
When did it become just the responsibility of those who are "wealthy" in any regard to help others?
My wife and I have never been much over the poverty level, but we've given away 3 great off-road bicycles and 2 12-speed road bikes away, a operating Mazada 323, a travel trailer, 3 wheel chairs, an electric scooter we had paid for on time payments, bedding, clothing, etc. We've shared meals, and allowed folks to use our bathroom and our washer and dryer to get clean. We've lent our time to hear out peoples complaints and woes. We are currently trying to keep a widow friend of ours from losing her property by helping with bills but also staying on the property so that thieves stop coming onto the property while she's away.
Wow. I'm stunned by the response here. I'm really floored at the level of rejection of clear Biblical instruction. Again, if I'm mistaking this please let me know personally.
If you think Christians helping the poor is about looking good, then I don't think any conversation we can have will be of benefit to either of us. Perhaps I'm reading your response wrong. If so, please let me know.
by the way, I'm not sure how starting a business helps people turn the electricity back on when they choose to pay for medications rather than the light bill.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I am sorry but I will not be shamed into giving.
I am more interested in the solutions to poverty than making myself feel good ( or look good ) by giving just to give.
While we are certainly to be charitable, we also must be good stewards of tyhe gifts God gives us. Remember the parable of talents...not only didn't the one who invested poorly not blessed by God, he had his monies taken from him and given to the one who did.
Malachi 3:10...tithe and God will bless you.
Matthew 6:33...Seek God first and He will bless you
If all we do is throw money at poverty all we will ever have..is the maximum amount of poor people we can have.
If we let guilty and covetness control our charity, the poor will suffer.
One of the best things a christian can do to help people is...to start a business.
If your church is not helping its members...time to get a new church.
_____________________________
suffering servant,
gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
check out:
//freecourses.trinitytheology.org/
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 1:10:32 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
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In the OT helping the poor was written into the law of the land. In the NT it's suppose to be written in our hearts. While there is the proverb that if a man won't work, neither let him eat--I do not think it is my place to make that judgement as to whether I should help him or not. We do need to be led of God in how we give, but I don't think making a value judgement about someone is the solution.
In the OT, every few years they were not permitted to work their land. INstead they had to just let the land sit and grow its own produce. Additionally, they could not harvest. They were permitted to eat from the field and allow the poor, foriegners or anyone that passed by to eat from the field. There were no value judgements, it was free for all for that year. In other words, if you're going to give. Just give it. And do it because the heart of flesh God has put in you wants to please God and server there fellow man.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 5:41:13 AM
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gralan
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From: RV in Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
In the OT helping the poor was written into the law of the land. In the NT it's suppose to be written in our hearts. While there is the proverb that if a man won't work, neither let him eat--I do not think it is my place to make that judgement as to whether I should help him or not. We do need to be led of God in how we give, but I don't think making a value judgement about someone is the solution.
In the OT, every few years they were not permitted to work their land. INstead they had to just let the land sit and grow its own produce. Additionally, they could not harvest. They were permitted to eat from the field and allow the poor, foriegners or anyone that passed by to eat from the field. There were no value judgements, it was free for all for that year. In other words, if you're going to give. Just give it. And do it because the heart of flesh God has put in you wants to please God and server there fellow man.
You are a sunbeam for Him. Even in the days of Jesus, they were not allowed to harvest the corners of the land either, but leave that for the poor to gather from.
I think having a heart of flesh is better than my old heart of stone. I would hope others also felt that way.
Peace be to you, and those of your household.
_____________________________
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gralan,
BTh student TGSAT
//TrinityTheology.org/
check out:
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 6:31:19 AM
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gcsmithjr
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quote:
I am sorry but I will not be shamed into giving.
I am more interested in the solutions to poverty than making myself feel good ( or look good ) by giving just to give.
While we are certainly to be charitable, we also must be good stewards of tyhe gifts God gives us. Remember the parable of talents...not only didn't the one who invested poorly not blessed by God, he had his monies taken from him and given to the one who did.
Malachi 3:10...tithe and God will bless you.
Matthew 6:33...Seek God first and He will bless you
If all we do is throw money at poverty all we will ever have..is the maximum amount of poor people we can have.
If we let guilty and covetness control our charity, the poor will suffer.
One of the best things a christian can do to help people is...to start a business.
If your church is not helping its members...time to get a new church.
What you have laid out here is an incredible distorted and one sided view of the bible's teaching on whether Christians are supposed to help the poor.
Your interpretation of Malachi 3:10 is way off the mark (and is essentially the view of that verse that leads to the prosperity gospel). You've completely overlooked Matthew 23, which makes it clear that tithing is not, in and of itself, a guarantee of God's blessing: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
The whole point that Jesus is making in that verse is that these guys knew how to tithe - so much so that they gave 10% of their spices to strictly adhere to the law, yet they missed the bigger point of God's calling on his people.
Your interpretation of Matthew 6:33 is also somewhat suspect. First of all, note that Matthew 6 starts with a teaching on giving to the needy and the words "when you give to the needy" (v. 2). The verse doesn't say "if you give to the needy" but "when". By the time we get to Matthew 6:33 the teaching is focused on God providing for our basic needs, specifically "what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear". Does God promise to provide those basic needs for us if we seek him, absolutely, but that has nothing to do with whether we, as followers of Christ are called to help the poor.
You seem to be overlooking Christ's teachings in Matthew 25:
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
Interesting that there's nothing there about starting a business or tithing - he is clearly talking about helping the poor (not the members of your church, but those who are hungry, thirsty, without clothes, sick and in prison) with their basic needs.
Ultimately, it's pretty clear from Matthew 25 that there is an expectation that followers of Christ will look after "the least of these".
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 7:35:36 AM
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leftwing
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I think all good gifts are from God. Therefor if one is prosperous, he/she has an obligation to do as God would do. That being help those less fortunate.
Charitable giving is in my opinion part and parcel with being Christian.
Personally I give to a charity that feeds hungry children.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 7:40:10 AM
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makarizo
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I think every one who calls themselves a Christian should Know 1Jn 3:17 well...... I wont type it out because I know you all already know it well.
"are christians required to help the poor"
what kind of question is that?????
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 7:45:28 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1466
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quote:
If our faith doesn't ask us to consider our fellow human beings more than we otherwise would, then really, what is the point.
The exacty reason why unlimited charity should never exist.
quote:
If I've offended you
Charity is an interesting issue to me and I have strong opinions on it.
You did not offend me. Also, not every comment I post is directed in your direction or anyone's direction.
quote:
When did it become the responsibility of just a congregation to help other believers?
I think you can make a case, biblically, that a christian should not, neccesarily, take charity from secular organizations. Uneven yokes etc.
Now wether or not its a sin? I don't know. Its probably just unwise.
quote:
When did it become just the responsibility of those who are "wealthy" in any regard to help others?
That would be my point...having money does not mean others are entitled to it. Unfortunately today, this is not the case, and its a sad state of affairs.
quote:
I'm really floored at the level of rejection of clear Biblical instruction.
If this is directed toward me, please post where what I said is not biblical.
quote:
by the way, I'm not sure how starting a business helps people turn the electricity back on when they choose to pay for medications rather than the light bill.
The more businesses are profitable, the more they hire, the more people spend, the more products are needed and the more taxes are collected.
More businesses mean more jobs. The best way out of poverty...is a job. Lots easier to pay for your light bill when you have money coming in.
quote:
I do not think it is my place to make that judgement as to whether I should help him or not.
Do you think stewardship is not part of being charitable? That, everyone who comes to a church for help should get it, no matter the situation?
quote:
Your interpretation of Malachi 3:10 is way off the mark (and is essentially the view of that verse that leads to the prosperity gospel). You've completely overlooked Matthew 23, which makes it clear that tithing is not, in and of itself, a guarantee of God's blessing
My using of malachi 3:10 was NOT an extensive study including every aspect of that verse. What I posted was just one aspect of the verse in relation to the point I was making.
As far as the rest of your post goes gcsmithjr, this is not the thread for a discussion on tithing.
My point is....we can postion oursleves for the blessings of God. There are many biblical factors in this and, of course, the bottom line is always God's will and most of these actions are not done by those who suffer poverty.
Bottom line is the majority of those in poverty made the decision to do so. This isn't judgemental. Its the first step, recognition of the problem, so a SOLUTION can be proposed....NOT...a way to make us feel good by throwing monies at a problem.
If you help someone without educating him to the reasons why he is in the place he is, then you guarentee his return to that place.
Do you want to help people....or not?
From where I sit, and this is NOT directed at anyone here, charity today is disgusting. Its the PROBLEM, not the solution.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 9:13:45 AM
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gralan
Posts: 2020
Joined: 1/29/2010
From: RV in Texas
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soninme1,
You are cherry picking the quotes from several posters as if they are all identified by the same person. Removing them from their context makes it even harder to discern if you are actually responding or just continuing a commentary.
Apparently I'm not making my comments in a certain sized "sound bite" for mental digestion.
I will not try to confuse you about this matter again.
I grew up in an age where complete commentary needed to be read to understand what was trying to be said. Apparently that is now considered to be old school. I didn't mean to bore you.
I like whole thought, old school presentations.
Thank you for your patience in putting up with me.
Good luck in your endeavors however you understand them to be.
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 9:52:44 AM
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Elena1030
Posts: 2970
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Music City, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
I think every one who calls themselves a Christian should Know 1Jn 3:17 well...... I wont type it out because I know you all already know it well.
"are christians required to help the poor"
what kind of question is that?????
The context of the OP seemed to frame the question in light of what many say about the government's role in taking care of people (or rather, what isn't and shouldn't be the government's role and responsibility). To me, there seemed to be more of a political tinge to the OP's pondering. Thus, my response..... which I find interesting that no one has responded to. (I'd like to know others don't see me as hard-hearted! But... that's my flesh talking: pride.)
I don't think the politically correct view of "ridding the world of poverty" (which is what seems to underly the idea that it's the government's role to take care of the poor) is to be the church's primary goal.
I think taking care of the poor should be a second-nature (that is, our spiritual nature, as new creations in Christ) outgrowth of the love Christ grows in us -- that taking care of people's basic needs would be one way that we live out the truth of the gospel, so that people see the power of God and know that He is real and know that He is who He says He is.
Also... that the individual believer can do much to help others... but cannot do it all. Together, as the worldwide church, we can see to people's needs.
If we focus on Christ and on the person (the one needing the help) and love him/her, rather than focusing so much on the issue (that being poverty, in this case), I think that will help set our sights aright.
_____________________________
"I like to stride, not mince." -- Maggie
Prayer thread for singles who desire to marry someday
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 10:02:32 AM
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gcsmithjr
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quote:
As far as the rest of your post goes gcsmithjr, this is not the thread for a discussion on tithing.
Then why did you bring it up? You made the comment that "Malachi 3:10...tithe and God will bless you" and I pointed out that you missed the fundamental point of Jesus' teaching on giving to the poor - that tithing without practicing "justice, mercy and faithfulness" guarantees us NOTHING.
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From where I sit, and this is NOT directed at anyone here, charity today is disgusting. Its the PROBLEM, not the solution.
So, when Jesus said "whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." he didn't mean it? He specifically refers to giving hungry people something to eat, giving thirsty people something to drink, and looking after those who are sick and in prison.
What exactly is it about those things that you find to be so disgusting?
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 10:26:07 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 8201
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gcsmithjr
"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
Interesting that there's nothing there about starting a business or tithing - he is clearly talking about helping the poor (not the members of your church, but those who are hungry, thirsty, without clothes, sick and in prison) with their basic needs.
Ultimately, it's pretty clear from Matthew 25 that there is an expectation that followers of Christ will look after "the least of these".
In the passage that you are using Scripture says;
(Mat 25:39) Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
(Mat 25:40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then later in the Passage this exchange takes place;
(Mat 25:44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(Mat 25:45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
"The least of these" in verse 45 is more than obviously referencing verse 40 which espressly states that it is helping the brethern that we will be judged on.
So using this Matthew 25 passage as proof text that Chrisitians are to help and feed everyone in the world just won't pass muster.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Are Christians required to help the poor? - 3/11/2010 11:21:43 AM
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x_SoliDeoGloria_x
Posts: 106
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
So using this Matthew 25 passage as proof text that Chrisitians are to help and feed everyone in the world just won't pass muster.
How about the command to love our neighbor as ourselves?
_____________________________
"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
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