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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/22/2008 6:54:23 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 811
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I am a bit confused. How, exactly, is this man bringing the bar into church? Is there alcohol being served?
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Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/22/2008 8:16:08 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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My understanding is that it will be BYOB. Friends from the bar have been invited to jam.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/22/2008 8:27:09 PM
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McFatty
Posts: 1084
Joined: 12/8/2007
From: Augusta, GA
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Alcohol and music are not sinful. I don't know the other circumstances, but there doesn't seem to be an inherent problem. The fact that these people are coming into a congregational building is already a good sign. Have some people there to talk with them about God, maybe.
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/22/2008 10:25:43 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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Should bar atmosphere be displayed in a church building?
There are already establishments for that. Why the need to desecrate the House of God?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/22/2008 10:26:44 PM
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martyfran
Posts: 544
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
My understanding is that it will be BYOB. Friends from the bar have been invited to jam.
Do you have any scripture that would suggest that there is something wrong with this?
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/22/2008 10:26:46 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 15366
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From: Just Outside of Boston
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Is his new idea non-profit?
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 12:25:07 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 811
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Personally, I'd have no problem with it. The church building is just that - a building. As long as the event doesn't promote drunkenness, or some other form of sinful behavior, I don't see where the issue is.
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 12:38:18 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 9413
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Should bar atmosphere be displayed in a church building?
Nope.
Church is supposed to be a place presented as a holy enviorment. When I think "bar", I don't think holy.
I think it's disrespectful.
If an alcoholic got wind of a bar being inside a church, he would automatically assume that being drunk is "OK".
_____________________________
I'm bringing sleazy back.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 12:57:19 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 811
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
If an alcoholic got wind of a bar being inside a church, he would automatically assume that being drunk is "OK".
By the same token, should churches have dress codes?
Also, should church members be forbidden from driving to church in expensive cars?
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 1:10:18 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 9413
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Clothing and what car you drive isn't an issue as promoting bars in churches.
It's ridiculous. We're there to praise God, not "jam" with our buddies in a bar.
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I'm bringing sleazy back.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 8:15:10 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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quote:
Do you have any scripture that would suggest that there is something wrong with this?
1Ch 29:1 Then King David said to the entire assembly, "My son Solomon, whom alone God has chosen, is still young and inexperienced and the work is great; for the temple is not for man, but for the LORD God.
quote:
Is his new idea non-profit?
I don't know and can't speculate.
quote:
Personally, I'd have no problem with it. The church building is just that - a building. As long as the event doesn't promote drunkenness, or some other form of sinful behavior, I don't see where the issue is.
Well, temple in the NT according to Strong's is:
1) sacred, consecrated to the deity, pertaining to God
a) sacred scriptures, because inspired by God, treating of divine things and therefore to be devoutly revered.
So it appears to be more than just a building to God.
quote:
Church is supposed to be a place presented as a holy enviorment. When I think "bar", I don't think holy.
I think it's disrespectful.
Couldn't agree with you more.
Look at the reaction Jesus had to the money changers in His House. Can we really expect Him to be any less angry for this to occur now?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 8:38:37 AM
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ddave12000
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What if he's trying to get them out of the bar and start a different kind of relationship with them? What if he's trying to get people who are uncomfortable going into a church comfortable with it?
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 8:58:16 AM
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KatMack
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From: Along the Canopy Roads
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While I do agree that this is wrong, I have to disagree with your applying the 2 Chronicles scripture about the temple to this. The OT Temple and the NT church are VERY different creatures. According to the NT WE are now the temple. The Spirit of God resides in us, not in a building.
--Kat
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<-- My sweet blessings.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 8:59:14 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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quote:
What if he's trying to get them out of the bar and start a different kind of relationship with them? What if he's trying to get people who are uncomfortable going into a church comfortable with it?
Ok, what if it's shameless self promotion or he moved the scene to his own turf because he didn't have enough attention at the bar????
Here is an update: No more mention of byob, now it's refreshments and gourmet coffee being served. The cost is free, so it's non profit.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:01:54 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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quote:
The OT Temple and the NT church are VERY different creatures. According to the NT WE are now the temple. The Spirit of God resides in us, not in a building.
--Kat
They aren't really that different, the NT expands on the temple definition by the "assembling", the sacredness did not change. The money changers ex supports that.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:07:39 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 7948
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
Church is supposed to be a place presented as a holy enviorment.
Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?
Frankly, I like the idea in the OP.
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:09:47 AM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5686
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrapeApe
If an alcoholic got wind of a bar being inside a church, he would automatically assume that being drunk is "OK".
If someone heard that a big fellowship meal was being held at a church, would it make sense that they automatically would assume that morbid obesity or bulimia or anorexia is okay?
If so, that sounds like pretty lame logic to me.
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:15:58 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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quote:
Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?
So you don't believe that God is most Almighty, High King and Holy? That He should be brought down to a level of humanness, with all it's faults and imperfections? He can't reach the lost without desecrating His House?
This is what I see our churches doing. bringing God to a level nor greater than ourselves. All we have to do is look at the OT to see the consequences of not honoring our Father with His deserved place of honor. We have minimized Him to a creation of our own making, so we can live a comfortable lifestyle that tolerates sin, that allows for it, encourages it, all in the name of serving God. How foolish we have become. How useful we have become to the enemy by our blindness and complacency.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:17:43 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
Status: offline
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quote:
If someone heard that a big fellowship meal was being held at a church, would it make sense that they automatically would assume that morbid obesity or bulimia or anorexia is okay?
You forget that the alcoholic has a truly warped sense of reasoning. (let me qualify that: Active alcoholic)
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:18:48 AM
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WesP
Posts: 2274
Joined: 11/28/2005
From: Where God needs me to be
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?
So you don't believe that God is most Almighty, High King and Holy? That He should be brought down to a level of humanness, with all it's faults and imperfections? He can't reach the lost without desecrating His House?
This is what I see our churches doing. bringing God to a level nor greater than ourselves. All we have to do is look at the OT to see the consequences of not honoring our Father with His deserved place of honor. We have minimized Him to a creation of our own making, so we can live a comfortable lifestyle that tolerates sin, that allows for it, encourages it, all in the name of serving God. How foolish we have become. How useful we have become to the enemy by our blindness and complacency.
It is called moral relativism, and it is destroying society. 
_____________________________
Peace,
Wes
___________________________________
<--- BTW, this is the true function of corn! It is to help the oil industry and its functionaries, not detract from them! 
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:20:29 AM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 7948
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Which is why those who MOST need it will never darken it's doorstep. What could be more off-putting to people who need Jesus than a "presentation" of holiness?
So you don't believe that God is most Almighty, High King and Holy? That He should be brought down to a level of humanness, with all it's faults and imperfections? He can't reach the lost without desecrating His House?
This is what I see our churches doing. bringing God to a level nor greater than ourselves. All we have to do is look at the OT to see the consequences of not honoring our Father with His deserved place of honor. We have minimized Him to a creation of our own making, so we can live a comfortable lifestyle that tolerates sin, that allows for it, encourages it, all in the name of serving God. How foolish we have become. How useful we have become to the enemy by our blindness and complacency.
But didn't He do that Himself? For the very purpose of saving that which was lost?
_____________________________
I want everyone here to know that I agree with the Lioness on every issue. Even when I disagree with her!
The Lioness Rules and Rocks! ~ Bluestone
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RE: Bringing the bar into church - 7/23/2008 9:21:44 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1570
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quote:
But didn't He do that Himself? For the very purpose of saving that which was lost?
Please clarify, I'm not sure what you mean here.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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