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Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'... - 8/5/2008 10:49:29 PM
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Kath
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Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'm sorry
Do you agree with that statement? Why or why not?
The theory is Christians know that one must ask forgiveness for a grievance. "Heathens" either don't know it or do not understand what asking forgiveness means.
According to this theory, Christians cannot say I'm sorry for X, they are to say will you forgive me for X. Saying sorry does not mean anything.
I am curious if other Christians feel this way, or if this person is the only one who has come up with it. I would think that one could just parrot the phrase Forgive me because they know saying sorry would not be good enough for this person.
< Message edited by Kath -- 8/5/2008 11:18:56 PM >
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/5/2008 11:35:48 PM
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faithfulservant_
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I don't know anything about the heathens, but I personally ask for forgiveness and/or mercy whenever I pray. Something else that is very important to mention that goes along with asking for forgiveness is the word repentance. I believe many of us ask for forgiveness but forget to repent (myself included). This is why I also ask the Lord to show me to way that leads to repentance.
< Message edited by faithfulservant_ -- 8/6/2008 5:55:37 AM >
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/5/2008 11:45:49 PM
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ta_mosquito
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So as a Christian I must always ask forgiveness instead of saying "I'm sorry"? So when I accidentally hurt my husband (whack him in the face when I don't know he's there), I must ask forgiveness instead of just saying I'm sorry?
Or is it for deliberate offenses?
This doesn't make sense to me.
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Tricia
"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the fire department generally uses water." ~Unknown
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 12:10:22 AM
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GroupW
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Interesting. I never thought about this before. Conceptually and theologically, I can see the difference between apology and a request for forgiveness. Practically though, I think the two are so closely intertwined as to make the distinction fairly artificial.
If I say, "I'm sorry", there is the implied expectation of forgiveness. In that sense, any words of apology in the absence of repentance are worthless and insincere. If repentance is then both the foundation of true apology as well as the prerequisite for true forgiveness, I'm just not sure I can perceive the difference there.
(It's late and I've not slept but 8 hours in the last 24 so I'm not sure if that made sense. Hopefully it did. If not, I'd be happy to try again.)
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 12:20:11 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Saying sorry does not mean anything.
I agree.
Sorry is a void word that doesn't mend or solve anything.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 7:34:41 AM
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armydude
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Asking for forgiveness OR saying, "I'm sorry" can help solve a problem. But it's not the words used that does it. It's the heart behind the words.
I believe that as a Christian, it's my responsibility to offer forgiveness before it's requested (whether by my fellow Christians or by those that do not know Christ). When I am the one that is wrong, my responsibility is to make things right; not to seek forgiveness. Anyone can seek forgiveness, but only the heart renewed daily can understand the concept of making things right even though forgiveness may not come.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 9:41:29 AM
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Leon_Figg3
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I believe whether one just says "I'm sorry," or asks for forgiveness would depend on the situation.
To just say "I am sorry" would be would tend to be more appropriate in situations that were clearly unintentional. Of course it would depend on the degree of damage done.
To ask forginveness would be more appropriate in situations where intentions were in question
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To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 9:44:46 AM
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triode
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So, the government shouldn't apologize for slavery, it should ask to be forgiven? Why not both? I think a non-Christian can understand forgiveness. And why shouldn't, or can't, a Christian say "T'm sorry"?
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 9:50:07 AM
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Qtman
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I think the term I'm sorry at one point was synonymous with asking for forgiveness. You would say I'm Sorry" which is to say "Forgive me" and the other person would say that's o.k. apology accepted or I forgive you.
Today is a different matter. I'M sorry now has become about as hollow as the greeting I hear around here. It goes something like "Hey How Are You?" If you were to start telling them how you are they would run. They really don't want to know. Its just a figure of speech.
To many people use the "I'm Sorry" as a cleanse all that allows them to do what they want as long as they mutter the two magic words.
Reminds me of my grandkids. One will jump up and belt the other quite intentionally and when mama gets on them they will say "Well I said I was sorry". Yep they did but did they mean it or was it just to get them out of trouble. I think you know the answer to that.
I think it is much harder to ask someone for forgiveness. That word carries a much heavier burden than a simple I'm sorry. If we did ask forgiveness we probably would not transgress as much.
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Everybody has Eternal Life. But only two Addresses to chose from.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:05:54 AM
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bluestone
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Maybe some of us are sorry for causing offense, but really don't care if the other person forgives us or not.  Probably depends on where in our pecking order the other person resides.
Saying "I am sorry" too many times means "I am sorry I got caught", or "I am sorry YOU took it that way" It takes the blame off of ourselves.
Asking for forgiveness includes an admission of guilt. Most of us really don't like admitting what we did or said was wrong.
Then there is the fear that the other person will say "No, I don't forgive you" Sometimes forgiveness take time to work through, so you put a person on the spot of saying yes when they don't yet forgive, but are working on it.
Anyhoo, I think a person of character, heathen or not, will ask for forgiveness when causing offense. Apologizing for the action is no less imporatant.
I caused offense, I regret it, I was wrong to do it, I hope you can and will at some point forgive me.
_____________________________
"a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject"-Winston Churchill
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:06:41 AM
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stampinlady
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I think saying "Forgive me" sounds better and implies a deeper meaning than "I'm sorry." Don't the British use this term? Maybe I watch too much tv.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:18:58 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'm sorry
Do you agree with that statement? Why or why not?
No, I believe the person has it backwards. If we are talking about God, Christians are the forgiven ones, and there is no need to ask for what you already have. If you are talking about people, then confessing one to another is going to that person and saying you are sorry for what you have done.
Forgiveness is not something we ask for, it is something we receive.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:39:28 AM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'm sorry
Do you agree with that statement? Why or why not?
No, I believe the person has it backwards. If we are talking about God, Christians are the forgiven ones, and there is no need to ask for what you already have. If you are talking about people, then confessing one to another is going to that person and saying you are sorry for what you have done.
Forgiveness is not something we ask for, it is something we receive.
Peace
This statement is just not true. Yes forgiveness is something we receive but is is also something we should seek and ask for. The Bible teaches seek and you shall fine, ask and it shall be given unto you. This also applies to forgiveness. Even when it involves forgiveness from God. We first must repent and seek his forgivness.
_____________________________
Everybody has Eternal Life. But only two Addresses to chose from.
<The Dutchess of Millbrook
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:41:20 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
So as a Christian I must always ask forgiveness instead of saying "I'm sorry"? So when I accidentally hurt my husband (whack him in the face when I don't know he's there), I must ask forgiveness instead of just saying I'm sorry?
Or is it for deliberate offenses?
This doesn't make sense to me.
I don't know if the fact that an act is accidental means that one can't ask forgiveness. If I accidentally ran over someone's child I would ask forgiveness of the parents not as means of relieving myself of guilt, but in part as a means of alleviating the inevitable potential for bitterness it might create in their hearts.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:43:49 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'm sorry
Do you agree with that statement? Why or why not?
No, I believe the person has it backwards. If we are talking about God, Christians are the forgiven ones, and there is no need to ask for what you already have. If you are talking about people, then confessing one to another is going to that person and saying you are sorry for what you have done.
Forgiveness is not something we ask for, it is something we receive.
Peace
This statement is just not true. Yes forgiveness is something we receive but is is also something we should seek and ask for. The Bible teaches seek and you shall fine, ask and it shall be given unto you. This also applies to forgiveness. Even when it involves forgiveness from God. We first must repent and seek his forgivness.
If you have it, what is there to seek?
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:54:15 AM
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bluestone
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From: Saturn
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Christ's forgiveness of our sins is one thing.
Being forgiven by other humans for the wrong we do them is another.
_____________________________
"a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject"-Winston Churchill
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 11:34:22 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3939
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" say I'm sorry
Do you agree with that statement? Why or why not?
The theory is Christians know that one must ask forgiveness for a grievance. "Heathens" either don't know it or do not understand what asking forgiveness means.
According to this theory, Christians cannot say I'm sorry for X, they are to say will you forgive me for X. Saying sorry does not mean anything.
I am curious if other Christians feel this way, or if this person is the only one who has come up with it. I would think that one could just parrot the phrase Forgive me because they know saying sorry would not be good enough for this person.
On first blush, I agree. After reading through the posts and seeing every possible vantage point...hmmm... 
I know in counseling, we do not talk about saying "sorry" but the need for us to forgive and ask for forgiveness.
A "whoops sorry" when it comes to clumsiness or accidents seems more about acknowledging that you actually did something rather than just brushing off or ignoring the spilled milk. Not really a forgiveness issue.
I know in teaching our grandchildren - we do not accept an I'm sorry, because we know they are sorry for getting caught rather than causing offense. And generally, the issue is deeper than simple neglect.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 2:09:38 PM
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hotsaucygma
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Hmm, I guess I think saying "I am sorry" is something I can do, an action I can take to show I regret whatever has happened. The forgiveness needs to be given by the other person. To me, I need to say the "I'm sorry" and ask the other person to forgive me if they can. If they do not extend forgiveness, it is still my obligation to express my "sorrow" at having hurt them in some way.
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Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 6:13:56 PM
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ta_mosquito
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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I think this is all a matter of semantics.
I don't need to use special formulaic words when praying, so why do I have to use special formulaic words when apologizing or asking for forgiveness? If I say, "I'm so sorry I hurt you. I know it was wrong, and I feel horrible about it," am I not expressing repentance even though I'm not using the words, "please forgive me"?
I'm sorry - this just doesn't fly with me.
_____________________________
Tricia
"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the fire department generally uses water." ~Unknown
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 6:30:01 PM
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bluestone
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I don't think anyone has ever asked me to forgive them. I don't think I have ever asked for forgiveness from another person, either. Hmmm.
_____________________________
"a fanatic is someone who can't change his mind, and won't change the subject"-Winston Churchill
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 6:44:54 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7059
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I don't think anyone has ever asked me to forgive them. I don't think I have ever asked for forgiveness from another person, either. Hmmm.
For me they seem to be a pretty essential part of being a husband and father (not to mention, in my case, a frequent part).
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 9:24:46 PM
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MindySue69
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I'm going to echo one of the earlier comments:
It really depends on the heart of the person doing the asking/stating. Sure "I'm sorry" has become cliche. BUT someone could seriously mean that they are very, very sorry for whatever it was that they did/what happened.
Both "I'm sorry" and "Forgive me" can very easily be said with a flip/non-serious attitude which will make them both worthless.
I think it's rather arrogant for someone to assume that only Christians understand forgiveness.
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RE: Christians ask forgiveness, "Heathens" sa... - 8/6/2008 10:07:06 PM
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GroupW
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Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Asking for forgiveness OR saying, "I'm sorry" can help solve a problem. But it's not the words used that does it. It's the heart behind the words.
That's what I was trying (but failing miserably) to say a bit earlier. Thanks for speaking more clearly than I could last night.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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