Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality may be the great Apostacy
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Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality may ... - 7/7/2008 11:39:41 PM
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Dan1138
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Have you been to a Christian Yoga class? Have you been to a strange but wonderful prayer room that operates 24/7? Are you seeking the will of god? Are you a Purpose Driven Person? Are you waiting to experience God? Then you may be fishing for spirits that are not of God. Are you involved in any of these things:
Contemplative Prayer
Christian Yoga
Visions, Voices and Vibrations
Healing of the Eastern philosophies
Seeking spiritual experiences
Please tell everyone about them. Or if you have had contact with these practices please post as well.
I am convinced that we are closing in on the Great Apostacy that must come before Christ's return. I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 2:15:10 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Based on..............? First off, contemplative Christianity is in no way new. You can actually trace it all the way back to Origen at 380 AD, and all through the Monastic movements of the Middle Ages. Secondly, when Daniel speaks of the Abomination of desolation, it is a referrence to an eschatological event that was fore-shadowed by Antiochus Epiphanes setting up an idol of Zeus in the second Temple. Thirdly, "visions, voices and vibrations" and "spiritual experiences" are all well within the realm of plausibility for God's association with mankind. Fourth, when yoga is stripped of it's meditative and religious ritualism, it is nothing more than attempting to contort your body on demand... congratulations, you are flexible, please give your soul to the man in the cape at the door... huh?!quote:
Have you been to a strange but wonderful prayer room that operates 24/7? Are you seeking the will of god? Are you a Purpose Driven Person? Are you waiting to experience God? Then you may be fishing for spirits that are not of God. I would Looooooooove to hear the supposed connection between all these. Whenever the OP has the time, that is. Particularly since night and day prayer has also been around as long as monasticism, the prophets of the Bible sought the will of God, Rick Warren is actually a pastor, and God is a very "hands on" individual.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 7:52:21 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Based on..............?
This is based upon my very humble opinion. Who could say with the confidence that you possess that, Antiochus Epiphanies placing of an idol of Zues is without a doubt the abomination of desolation. Most would actually say that the sacrifice of a pig on the temple alter was the abomination of desolation. This would have been part of the greater helenization effort of Antiochus Epiphanies. But let me quote the heretic Origen:
"it appears to me that the whole people of Christ, when we regard it in the aspect of the hidden man of the heart, that people which is called "Jew inwardly," and is circumcised in the spirit, has in a more mystic way the characteristics of the tribes." Origen and his adherents say that they are the true Jew. Furgod are you a TRUE JEW?
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 7:58:07 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Based on..............? First off, contemplative Christianity is in no way new. You can actually trace it all the way back to Origen at 380 AD, and all through the Monastic movements of the Middle Ages.
Yes ancient mystic Catholic priests practiced contemplative prayer, and the whipped their own bodies and wore spine filled belts and performed many other hideous contortions in an effort to become humble. Furgod do you adhere to all monastic practices and heresies?
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 8:05:02 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Secondly, when Daniel speaks of the Abomination of desolation, it is a referrence to an eschatological event that was fore-shadowed by Antiochus Epiphanes setting up an idol of Zeus in the second Temple.
It was the pig sacrifice on the alter at the temple see above, but furthermore most respected theologins agree that prophecy is binocular in nature. Prophecy points to a near and a far event. That is why sooo many theologins called Antiochus Epiphanies a type of anti christ. Daniels' prophecy showed antiochus and antichrist.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 8:09:44 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Thirdly, "visions, voices and vibrations" and "spiritual experiences" are all well within the realm of plausibility for God's association with mankind.
True, but do you DESIRE AND SEEK them. So did the pharisees! God gives signs and wonders but he never said we should contemplate until we get a sign or a wonder!!!! Show me where the bible says we command the Holy Spirit to act! This would be a lusty act of a most perverse proportion.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 8:16:41 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Thirdly, "visions, voices and vibrations" and "spiritual experiences" are all well within the realm of plausibility for God's association with mankind.
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie." II Thessalonians 2:9- 11
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 8:26:42 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Fourth, when yoga is stripped of it's meditative nd religious ritualism, it is nothing more than attempting to contort your body on demand... congratulations, you are flexible, please give your soul to the man in the cape at the door... huh?
Yoga is translated "UNION" AS IN COUPLING!!!!!!! Christians do not couple with unclean MahaDevas and spirits.
I am paraphrasing a teacher of the Dharma Yoga Ashram:
Hinduism and its many Yogas have nothing to do with God and Jesus. Yoga is a religion that denies Jesus Christ. Christianity denies the Hindu MahaDevas such as Siva, Vishnu, Durga and Krishna, to name a few.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 8:37:46 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God Have you been to a strange but wonderful prayer room that operates 24/7? Are you seeking the will of god? Are you a Purpose Driven Person? Are you waiting to experience God? Then you may be fishing for spirits that are not of God. I would Looooooooove to hear the supposed connection between all these. Whenever the OP has the time, that is. Particularly since night and day prayer has also been around as long as monasticism, the prophets of the Bible sought the will of God, Rick Warren is actually a pastor, and God is a very "hands on" individual.
Adam
Adam,
I have just prayed for you and everyone who might read this. I have replied much this morning and I see that I am becoming proud now in my attitude. I will retire to work today but I assure you that all of these things have clear responses. This forum or bulletin board as we called it back in the day has a way of elevating a man's spirit to desire this world and all it offers. I suppose that is why an old preacher I once sat under thought the computer might become the abomination of desolation.
Remember salvation comes through the calling of Jesus through his Spirit by the authority of the Father. Who could repent without God. I repent here and now. I am proud, a fool. If left to my own ways, total destruction would follow. I PRAISE GOD ALMIGHTY SITTING ON HIGH for my wretched soul and I await the Day when the filthy garment is lifted and I receive a crown of glory to give to Jesus.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 11:34:23 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
I also think that Contemplative Prayer may well be the actual apostacy or perhaps the actual abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the Prophet of God quote:
Have you been to a strange but wonderful prayer room that operates 24/7? Are you seeking the will of god? Are you a Purpose Driven Person? Are you waiting to experience God? Then you may be fishing for spirits that are not of God. I would Looooooooove to hear the supposed connection between all these. Whenever the OP has the time, that is. Particularly since night and day prayer has also been around as long as monasticism, the prophets of the Bible sought the will of God, Rick Warren is actually a pastor, and God is a very "hands on" individual.
Adam
Monasticism is simply tradition gone wild. Catholicism has long ago left the scripture behind in favor of tradition and papal dictate. Monks have done many non biblical things as I said before.
Night and day prayer was exemplefied by Christ Jesus, who forewent food and sleep for the solace of prayer. Prayer can however be an idol. Contemplative Prayer is an evil practice of self worship through the worst form of idolotry. Pagans in old testament times at least bowed to figures or ashera poles, but contemplatives bow to the "god within." They empty their minds with mindless forms of chanting ,breathing, or silence. this is far from God. Many Contemplatives see and speak to spirits, heal the sick, give amazing council and always seek the will of god. They do not know God. The Prophets of God did not seek Gods will by mystical practice. Samuel was called as a small child and it was matter-of-fact to him and his mentor. Elisha sought the Spirit of God that Elija had. But he inquired of his mentor, who knew God. The test of a Prophet was whether his prophecy came true. If it did not, he would be stoned. He would not get "stoned" by way of some ecstasia of mysticism.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 11:36:31 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
I would Looooooooove to hear the supposed connection between all these. Whenever the OP has the time, that is. Particularly since night and day prayer has also been around as long as monasticism, the prophets of the Bible sought the will of God, Rick Warren is actually a pastor, and God is a very "hands on" individual.
Adam
Rick Warren mis-quotes scripture to his own desires. I have begun reading his Purpose Driven book. I checked every bible quotation WITHIN context. Every other verse was mis-quoted. But listen to the quotes of Leonard Sweet who is a New Age Mystic promoted by Rick Warren on the front and back covers of Sweets' book.
"A sea change of transitions and transformations is birthing a whole new world and a whole new set of ways of making our way in the world"
"It is time for a Postmodern Reformation"
"Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die. Some would rather die than change"
Leonard Sweet, Soul Tsunami pages 17 and 75
Rick Warren says:
Soul Tsunami "shows us why these are the greatest days for evangelism since the first century."
Rick Warren hired Ken Blanchard to teach leadership even though this man has taught Eastern style Bhuddist meditation for over 20 years
This is Americas most inspiring Pastor?
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/8/2008 11:39:28 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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Please try to make one point at a time it makes things flow more logically. Yes it is hard for me too.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 5:03:58 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 979
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
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For the sake of consolidation, I am going to make one reply to the above responses... it's a little easier on the eyes....quote:
This is based upon my very humble opinion. Who could say with the confidence that you possess that, Antiochus Epiphanies placing of an idol of Zues is without a doubt the abomination of desolation. Most would actually say that the sacrifice of a pig on the temple alter was the abomination of desolation. This would have been part of the greater helenization effort of Antiochus Epiphanies. But let me quote the heretic Origen:
"it appears to me that the whole people of Christ, when we regard it in the aspect of the hidden man of the heart, that people which is called "Jew inwardly," and is circumcised in the spirit, has in a more mystic way the characteristics of the tribes." Origen and his adherents say that they are the true Jew. Furgod are you a TRUE JEW?
Point 1. Retreating to the argument of "this is my opinion" makes your statements no more authoritative than my own.
Point 2. First, in Matthew 24 Jesus did make referrence to the abomination of desolation "standing" in the holy place. This would be consistant with an idol/monument to Zeus standing in the temple. However, the point of Antiochus is that Greek Polythiesm was practiced in the Temple of God. The question of whether it was was the sacrifice or the idol is very academic.
Point 3. The standing of Origen as a "heretic" depends largely on who you ask. For example, many protestant scholars believe that all Catholics are heretics, which I definitely cannot agree with.
Point 4. Paul said that "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but he who is circumcised of heart." However, he also said that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. I'm not going to claim to be Jewish (particularly because I don't have a Jewish heritage, to my knowledge), but I will claim to be part of the One New Man that God is forming of the Gentiles and Jews in the church.quote:
Yes ancient mystic Catholic priests practiced contemplative prayer, and the whipped their own bodies and wore spine filled belts and performed many other hideous contortions in an effort to become humble. Furgod do you adhere to all monastic practices and heresies? A loaded question? Please... As one who cannot condone every word or practice of any single movement, denomination, or pastor for that matter, this is a silly question. The point is that the monastic movements of history have had their excesses, but that does not make them fully incorrect either. Consider the humility of Jesus to take off His divine garments and become a helpless baby in a feeding trough... it doesn't make self flagellation seem so "out there". Its wrong, but it isn't that far gone either.quote:
True, but do you DESIRE AND SEEK them. So did the pharisees! God gives signs and wonders but he never said we should contemplate until we get a sign or a wonder!!!! Show me where the bible says we command the Holy Spirit to act! This would be a lusty act of a most perverse proportion.
Point 1. this argument doesn't hang together in any meaningful way.
Point 2. Moses desired and sought to see God in his flesh. For him it was to the point of actually asking God, "show me your glory!"
Point 3. Jesus told the 12 apostles to "wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit has come upon you." Case closed.
Point 4. We do not command the Holy Spirit to act. The difference is asking and believing God is a good enough Father to satisfy our desires. This is not commanding, but asking with faith that God will answer.quote:
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie." II Thessalonians 2:9- 11 Point 1. Are you intending that this verse discredit any sign of the supernatural as automatically evil or delusional? I find that comical since Paul himself worked many miracles before and after this verse was penned.
Point 2. Who is God sending the spirit of delusion to? The unsaved. Hence the referrence to "among those who perish." This verse does nothing to resolve the apparent conflict in mindsets we are displaying.quote:
Yoga is translated "UNION" AS IN COUPLING!!!!!!! Christians do not couple with unclean MahaDevas and spirits.
I am paraphrasing a teacher of the Dharma Yoga Ashram:
Hinduism and its many Yogas have nothing to do with God and Jesus. Yoga is a religion that denies Jesus Christ. Christianity denies the Hindu MahaDevas such as Siva, Vishnu, Durga and Krishna, to name a few. Which is why, as I said earlier, when yoga is stripped of it's religious nature, it is nothing more than flexibility training. If you are using it as a religious art, yes, you are in dangerous territory. But just like cracking your knuckles is not sinful (offensive to some as it is), neither is being flexible and well-balanced.quote:
Monasticism is simply tradition gone wild. Catholicism has long ago left the scripture behind in favor of tradition and papal dictate. Monks have done many non biblical things as I said before. Remembering that Catholic Monasticism kept Christianity alive during the Middle Ages, I find this statement incredible. I believe the commandment is along the lines of "honor thy father and mother." Were it not for the Catholic church, the Biblical canon would not have been set, and Christianity might not have survived the Mideivil Period.quote:
Night and day prayer was exemplefied by Christ Jesus, who forewent food and sleep for the solace of prayer. Prayer can however be an idol. By definition, it cannot. Why? Because prayer is a word for talking to God. In fact, 95% of Christians should probably be concerned with praying more. In the talk of "balance"  people constantly try to discourage people to spend "too much" time in prayer. If my life was "balanced", I would spend 12 hours a day in prayer.quote:
Contemplative Prayer is an evil practice of self worship through the worst form of idolotry. Pagans in old testament times at least bowed to figures or ashera poles, but contemplatives bow to the "god within." They empty their minds with mindless forms of chanting ,breathing, or silence. this is far from God. Many Contemplatives see and speak to spirits, heal the sick, give amazing council and always seek the will of god. They do not know God. (A) Judgementalism on someone's spiritual condition will get you nowhere in this argument.
(B) This is an absoloute misunderstanding of what Contemplative prayer is. True contemplation is not the emptying of one's mind as in Eastern Mysticism, but it is the focusing of one's capacities wholly on God. Because Christians are (supposed to be) filled with the Holy Spirit, God dwells on the inside of you. That is why we use the language of "askin Jesus into our hearts" for salvation. It is through contemplation that you speak to the Spirit of God that is (supposedly) within your being from salvation.
(C) Many people spoke to spirits in the Bible. John, Daniel, Joshua, Jesus, Zechariah... the list goes on. This is a very poor argument indeed.
(D) Many, MANY people in the Bible healed the sick. This is not a sign of the apocolypse. It will be when someone heals the sick in the name of the Antichrist, or the name of Satan.
(E) There are many instances of people seeking God's will in the Bible. For example, David inquiring of God before the ark of the covenant (at least 6 times that I can think of). Or how about our beloved twelve apostles casting lots in faith that God would control the outcome? How about Paul asking that we would be filled with the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of His will (Ephesians 1:17-19)? Perhaps the ones you are judging know God a little better than you give them credit for...quote:
Rick Warren mis-quotes scripture to his own desires. I have begun reading his Purpose Driven book. I checked every bible quotation WITHIN context. Every other verse was mis-quoted. I could level this claim at many, MANY people I disagree with. It is not unique to Warren, or to the contemplative prayer movement. If you search hard enough, every single pastor is wrong about something. I do not personally care for Warren's message (a little too wishy-washy for me), but I give him at least the credit of having tried to nurture the body.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 8:02:52 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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Furgod your just making me unpack your paragraphs and your arguments. If I don't separate these it would be the longest post ever.
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
For the sake of consolidation, I am going to make one reply to the above responses... it's a little easier on the eyes....quote:
This is based upon my very humble opinion. Who could say with the confidence that you possess that, Antiochus Epiphanies placing of an idol of Zues is without a doubt the abomination of desolation. Most would actually say that the sacrifice of a pig on the temple alter was the abomination of desolation. This would have been part of the greater helenization effort of Antiochus Epiphanies. But let me quote the heretic Origen:
"it appears to me that the whole people of Christ, when we regard it in the aspect of the hidden man of the heart, that people which is called "Jew inwardly," and is circumcised in the spirit, has in a more mystic way the characteristics of the tribes." Origen and his adherents say that they are the true Jew. Furgod are you a TRUE JEW?
1 and 2 My opinion is regarding the near time prophecy of the abomination that causes desolation. The book of Daniel says set up the book of Matthew says standing. If I were a greek and Hebrew scholar we could parse out those words. You can set up a "prayer meeting." A son of perdition can stand in the temple, empty his mind through contemplative prayer and be filled by satan. This would be similar to Catholic adoration of a bread flake that they say is God. Did you know that more than ever before masses of non-catholics are seeing visions during adoration?
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 8:09:50 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
For the sake of consolidation, I am going to make one reply to the above responses... it's a little easier on the eyes....quote:
This is based upon my very humble opinion. Who could say with the confidence that you possess that, Antiochus Epiphanies placing of an idol of Zues is without a doubt the abomination of desolation. Most would actually say that the sacrifice of a pig on the temple alter was the abomination of desolation. This would have been part of the greater helenization effort of Antiochus Epiphanies. But let me quote the heretic Origen:
"it appears to me that the whole people of Christ, when we regard it in the aspect of the hidden man of the heart, that people which is called "Jew inwardly," and is circumcised in the spirit, has in a more mystic way the characteristics of the tribes." Origen and his adherents say that they are the true Jew. Furgod are you a TRUE JEW?
Point 1. Retreating to the argument of "this is my opinion" makes your statements no more authoritative than my own.
Retreating seems like a suggestion that I am arguing only from a position of pride. Not true and a little insulting. Let us keep this factual and logical. You have already made me revisit the abomination passages and look into the word order. That's good. That is my purpose. To sharpen and to be sharpened. When this becomes non-edifying it becomes non-biblical.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 8:38:28 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
This is based upon my very humble opinion. Who could say with the confidence that you possess that, Antiochus Epiphanies placing of an idol of Zues is without a doubt the abomination of desolation. Most would actually say that the sacrifice of a pig on the temple alter was the abomination of desolation. This would have been part of the greater helenization effort of Antiochus Epiphanies. But let me quote the heretic Origen:
"it appears to me that the whole people of Christ, when we regard it in the aspect of the hidden man of the heart, that people which is called "Jew inwardly," and is circumcised in the spirit, has in a more mystic way the characteristics of the tribes." Origen and his adherents say that they are the true Jew. Furgod are you a TRUE JEW?
Point 1. Retreating to the argument of "this is my opinion" makes your statements no more authoritative than my own.
Point 2. First, in Matthew 24 Jesus did make referrence to the abomination of desolation "standing" in the holy place. This would be consistant with an idol/monument to Zeus standing in the temple. However, the point of Antiochus is that Greek Polythiesm was practiced in the Temple of God. The question of whether it was was the sacrifice or the idol is very academic.
Abomination is as much an act as it is a physical idol (see deuteronomy 13:14). And knowing how God searches the hearts of men, we should look to the action of the heart not the hands per se. For instance, if I use a small idol to pound in a nail, am I idolotrous? Certainly not! Now if I forego using a hammer to pound a nail to seek favor from idols am I not damned? That's how it is with prayer. The Jews never knew if God was in the temple in Jesus day and thereafter. When God removed his favor from them, they continued to sacrifice in vain. Vain, vanity, pride. It is no different today. Two men bow in prayer and contemplation. One worships God the other doesn't know God. One humbles himself the other seeks his worldly religious passions.
Malachi 2:2
2"If you do (A)not listen, and if you do not take it to heart to give honor to My name," says the LORD of hosts, "then I will send the (B)curse upon you and I will curse your blessings; and indeed, I have (C)cursed them already, because you are not taking it to heart."
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 8:50:15 AM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
For the sake of consolidation, I am going to make one reply to the above responses... it's a little easier on the eyes....quote:
This is based upon my very humble opinion. Who could say with the confidence that you possess that, Antiochus Epiphanies placing of an idol of Zues is without a doubt the abomination of desolation. Most would actually say that the sacrifice of a pig on the temple alter was the abomination of desolation. This would have been part of the greater helenization effort of Antiochus Epiphanies. But let me quote the heretic Origen:
"it appears to me that the whole people of Christ, when we regard it in the aspect of the hidden man of the heart, that people which is called "Jew inwardly," and is circumcised in the spirit, has in a more mystic way the characteristics of the tribes." Origen and his adherents say that they are the true Jew. Furgod are you a TRUE JEW?
Point 3. The standing of Origen as a "heretic" depends largely on who you ask. For example, many protestant scholars believe that all Catholics are heretics, which I definitely cannot agree with.
All Catholics are mystics. All Contemplatives are mystics. All who worship mary mother of Jesus or claim God is in a bread flake called eucharist are heretics. Salvation is not of Mary or eucharist. After you eat God(eucharist) do you poop him out, and then become damned to hell? This is mysticism in greek: mystikos- seeing with the eyes closed. It seems like what Origen, Catholicism, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and the Desert Fathers teach is all mysticism. Hidden truth is what they teach like gnostics and nicolaitans. 2 Thessolonians 2:7 "For the mystery"(hidden truth) "of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way." Hidden truth is an alternate translation. NKJV
I must work now.
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My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 6:30:04 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Point 4. Paul said that "he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but he who is circumcised of heart." However, he also said that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Greek. I'm not going to claim to be Jewish (particularly because I don't have a Jewish heritage, to my knowledge), but I will claim to be part of the One New Man that God is forming of the Gentiles and Jews in the church.
I want to be clear, and I want you to be clear as to the question of gods devotion to Israel.
Isaiah 59 verse 21"As for Me, this is My (A)covenant with them," says the LORD: "My (B)Spirit which is upon you, and My (C)words which I have put in your mouth shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor from the mouth of your offspring's offspring," says the LORD, "from now and forever."
Jeremiah 31 verse 3 The LORD appeared to us in the past, [a] saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness."
Romans 11 verse's 1 I say then, God has not (A)rejected His people, has He? (B)May it never be! For (C)I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God (D)has not rejected His people whom He (E)foreknew (F)Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
3"Lord, (G)THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE."
4But what is the divine response to him? "(H)I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time (I)a remnant according to God's gracious choice.
6But (J)if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
7What then? What (K)Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were (L)hardened;
8just as it is written,
"(M)GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR,
EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT,
DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY."
9And David says,
"(N)LET THEIR TABLE BECOME A SNARE AND A TRAP,
AND A STUMBLING BLOCK AND A RETRIBUTION TO THEM.
10"LET THEIR EYES BE DARKENED TO SEE NOT,
AND BEND THEIR BACKS FOREVER."
That last line sounds like the definition of mystic, to see with eyes shut. What do you see with closed eyes Satan, and who closes your eyes God almighty.
God still loves his first love.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 9:28:36 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
Yes ancient mystic Catholic priests practiced contemplative prayer, and the whipped their own bodies and wore spine filled belts and performed many other hideous contortions in an effort to become humble. Furgod do you adhere to all monastic practices and heresies?
A loaded question? Please... As one who cannot condone every word or practice of any single movement, denomination, or pastor for that matter, this is a silly question. The point is that the monastic movements of history have had their excesses, but that does not make them fully incorrect either. Consider the humility of Jesus to take off His divine garments and become a helpless baby in a feeding trough... it doesn't make self flagellation seem so "out there". Its wrong, but it isn't that far gone either.
Not a loaded question unless God loaded it when I wasn't looking. We are not called to be obedient to movements, creeds, practices, denominations, pastors or religions. We who are called are to obey God's Word. What did Jesus do. He taught us the Lord's prayer as an example. Monasticism whether fully correct or incorrect sounds a little relative to me. There is one Truth. If we repeat the Lord's prayer time and time again as a rote function of the rule of religious law, then even that prayer loses all meaning. We are not called to repeat prayers empty headedly. We are not called to flagellation. Flagellation is one of the proudest things you can do. You concentrate upon your flesh. Search the world the flesh and the devil in the scripture or perhaps you know this passage already. Flagellation is something that you do, and it does not edify you. This is legalism.
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My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 9:44:00 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
...Consider the humility of Jesus to take off His divine garments and become a helpless baby in a feeding trough... it doesn't make self flagellation seem so "out there". Its wrong, but it isn't that far gone either.
I am glad to hear you say it is wrong, but you always seem to leave something back. The humiliation of Christ, the Holy holy holy Son of God, self existent, through whom all things were made, cannot be compared to any earthly thing. I am really surprized to hear you make that comparison. A low view of God always affects your relationship with him.
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My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 11:02:02 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Point 1. this argument doesn't hang together in any meaningful way.
Point 2. Moses desired and sought to see God in his flesh. For him it was to the point of actually asking God, "show me your glory!"
Restatement:
Desiring a sign, wonder or miracle shows that an individual has little faith just like the Pharisees. God gives signs, wonders and miracles in response to faith.
A Prophet Without Honor Matthew 13
53When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there. 54Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked. 55"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? 56Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?" 57And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
58And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.
Moses never emptied his mind as Contemplatives do, so as to receive an anointing of the Holy Spirit. God chose him. When Moses desired to see God it was not in the lusty contemplative sense. He simply asked.
Exodus 33
15 Then Moses said to him, "If your Presence does not go with us, do not send us up from here. 16 How will anyone know that you are pleased with me and with your people unless you go with us? What else will distinguish me and your people from all the other people on the face of the earth?"
17 And the LORD said to Moses, "I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name."
18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Moses asked this because God's presence in our lives causes us to be humble and obedient. Moses knew that without God's presence the Jews would be like all the other tribes full of sin and dead.
You were misleading when you stated that Moses said: Now show me your
glory! There was no exclamation in the way it was translated because Moses and God were having a matter of fact conversation. Moses was praying to God. No harps, no bowls, no candles, no guitars, no trappings of mysticism or emptying of Moses' mind.
"17 And the LORD said to Moses, "I will do the very thing you have asked, because I am pleased with you and I know you by name."
18 Then Moses said, 'Now show me your glory.'"
Many unsaved people ask and ask and get sick of asking God, so they turn to some perverse self made remedy like drugs, violence, money, sex and religious ecstacy.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 11:20:04 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Point 3. Jesus told the 12 apostles to "wait in Jerusalem until the Holy Spirit has come upon you." Case closed.
Luke 24
48You are witnesses of these things. 49I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."
The Ascension
50When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. 51While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven. 52Then they worshiped him and returned to Jerusalem with great joy. 53And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God.
So he told them to stay in the city. He didn't tell them to say mantras, count beads. Mysticism kills.
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My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 11:26:12 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Point 4. We do not command the Holy Spirit to act. The difference is asking and believing God is a good enough Father to satisfy our desires. This is not commanding, but asking with faith that God will answer.
I couldn't agree more. Just leave out the monks, contemplatives and mystical garbage.
When you add all those extras, you invite a new gospel. That is what Contemplative prayer is doing. People are seeing and speaking to spirits. The new gospel is "spread this practice more." That is the heart of evil.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/10/2008 11:48:28 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 174
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs and wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie." II Thessalonians 2:9- 11
Point 1. Are you intending that this verse discredit any sign of the supernatural as automatically evil or delusional? I find that comical since Paul himself worked many miracles before and after this verse was penned.
No, just those wonders brought through non-biblical contemplative prayer.
quote:
Point 2. Who is God sending the spirit of delusion to? The unsaved. Hence the referrence to "among those who perish." This verse does nothing to resolve the apparent conflict in mindsets we are displaying.
The point is don't just trust signs and wonders. Satan is very powerful and beguiling. He appears as an angel of light.
quote:
Yoga is translated "UNION" AS IN COUPLING!!!!!!! Christians do not couple with unclean MahaDevas and spirits.
I am paraphrasing a teacher of the Dharma Yoga Ashram:
Hinduism and its many Yogas have nothing to do with God and Jesus. Yoga is a religion that denies Jesus Christ. Christianity denies the Hindu MahaDevas such as Siva, Vishnu, Durga and Krishna, to name a few.
Which is why, as I said earlier, when yoga is stripped of it's religious nature, it is nothing more than flexibility training. If you are using it as a religious art, yes, you are in dangerous territory. But just like cracking your knuckles is not sinful (offensive to some as it is), neither is being flexible and well-balanced.
Read the quotes again even the Hindus admit that Yoga is inately non-Christian. The repetitious body forms are prayers in and of themselves. These yoga positions have been studied for th | | |
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