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Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 6:13:58 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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There has been a lot of posts regarding OSAS and etc. But I was reading recently a couple of scriptures that stood out to me.
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and thre are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. -- Matt 7:13
"Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many I say to you, will seek to enter and not be able to. -- Luke 13:24
Upon stumbling onto these scriptures I was shocked to read them. I read them over and over again and even used my Revised Bible which gives the most accurate interpretation of the greek.
According to these scriptures, it appears it is a STRUGGLE to get into heaven. One translation actually says, struggle to get into because many are not STRONG ENOUGH. Christianity is not just a one-way fire insurance ticket to paradise. I'm starting to realize that not only here, but in my own life and in the lives of others. If all we need to do is sit back and let God's grace glide us into heaven, why is Jesus speaking as though we are on the final round of Survivor? Why is He so Emphatic?
I've heard people say all we need to do is sail into the Kingdom, but I'm not so sure that is what Jesus Christ was saying. He makes repeated statments about things you have to DO. He does not seem to make christianity out to be a bed of roses.
I think there is a confusion about works and grace and their function with the christian. By Grace we were saved, but it is up to us to make our election SURE. Obviously it is possible to "not make it" if there is going to be a great falling away. In fact the story of the seed and the sower makes a very good example of some who began but fell away.
So my question: Do you struggle? Are you striving to get into the Kingdom of Heaven (not in terms of buying your salvation, but in terms of making your election sure). Is the way difficult? If the way is NOT difficult, does that mean we're not on the right path (as Jesus has described that way?) Have you found it that path? And if that path is so narrow and difficult, are we leading others to that path? And if we suppose we are, have we given them an accurate description of the Way with our life, our speech, and our gospel?
All thoughts are appreciated!
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 6:42:44 PM
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McFatty
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"Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God." - Romans 5:1-2
You should have peace with the idea of your salvation: not necessarily happiness, but peace. While one should definitely strive to live a good life and try to sin no more, it is not works that earn anyone salvation.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9
The faith is what saves us. Faith is incredibly powerful.
"By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days." - Hebrews 11:30
The faith which allows us to accept the salvation freely given by God should cause us to want to obey His will, though we are not capable of perfection.
"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." - James 2:24
Faith, leading to works, is the means by which anyone can accept the free gift of salvation.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." - Romans 1:16
In closing, yes, we must do good, but it is not loathing toil to do the works of God. God's salvation will change our nature from that which desires sin to that which desires good. The good works we will do will be a joy, and sin will cause us to feel bad. That is the difference of being born again.
"For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin." - Romans 6:5-7
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 7:03:59 PM
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HisCovenant
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I think we short change young believers by pretending that the way is not tough. Jesus says we should count the cost... that means there is cost. I believe in OSAS, but I believe some who think they are saved are only going through the motions and aren't really devoting themselves to God. I don't think our actions ensure salvation, but that the show what's actually in our hearts.
I also think that some of the way is easy. There are certain things that simply don't tempt me. In other ways it is a struggle. It depends on the test. And there's lots of hardship that shows me my heart and causes me to cling more to God because I have examples of how inadequate I am when problems arise.
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 7:23:29 PM
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crh737
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Hey Dakota~
I struggle every day, especially now having baby! I do not ever see myself entering those gates.
I'm left daily praying for my child that I do the "right" thing.
I worry sometimes because I was abused and do not ever want that for my chid and want him to know God's love.
So Struggle yeah even in my walk before this I struggled, it just is harder now
Love to you
CRH
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 7:32:44 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
So my question: Do you struggle? Are you striving to get into the Kingdom of Heaven (not in terms of buying your salvation, but in terms of making your election sure). Is the way difficult? If the way is NOT difficult, does that mean we're not on the right path (as Jesus has described that way?) Have you found it that path? And if that path is so narrow and difficult, are we leading others to that path? And if we suppose we are, have we given them an accurate description of the Way with our life, our speech, and our gospel?
All thoughts are appreciated!
You bet I struggle! And it took me years (like about 20) to realize the struggle was never going to end until my days here on earth are over.
I believe God, in His mercy, actually did not reveal to me just how difficult the "Way" would be. It was gradually revealed to. I remember when I used to think, after a trial was over something like "whew", glad that one is over and then I thought I could cruise for awhile.
Well, it has not happened that way. One thing (amongst many) that was a hugh eye-opener for me was during an extremely difficult time of my life I re-read the words of our Lord when He said, speaking of John the Baptist ~blessed is he who is not offended at Me~.
Frankly, I have been offended at God in my lack of understanding and deep pain. I don't feel ashamed to say that because all the apostles were offended, also.
The Way is rough, it is uphill, it takes a heart of a lion to continue on. But, you know what? If anyone lacks the heart of a lion, that courageous heart - our dearest Savior is sooo willing to give us the heart we need 
He is the One that has kept me going! He is a faithful, faithful, faithful God. He has kept me in the palm of His nail-pierced hand...He has never let me go and He never will
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 7:35:17 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crh737
I worry sometimes because I was abused and do not ever want that for my chid and want him to know God's love.
CRH
(((Gentle, gentle hugs to you))))
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 8:56:20 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3647
Joined: 4/16/2005
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The Law, we are not under its yoke.
Struggle. Its one word for our walks. I like to think of it as tempering. I like to think our obediance isn't a matter of our ability to follow the Law. Its our ability to love God more than our sin, with God's help.
Another word for our walks is victory. We do have the victory. We are in the first quarter, second quarter...maybe the half time, the third quarter or the fourth quarter of our walks with God and the game is tough, physical and challeneging...but...there is NO doubt of the outcome.
Since you didn't and could not choose God on your own or with your own will power, how can you walk away? God chose you. He doesn't make mistakes. If you are saved, no matter how far you get from God, you will always come back.
If you never come back, you never knew Him.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/6/2008 9:09:49 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
Since you didn't and could not choose God on your own or with your own will power, how can you walk away? God chose you. He doesn't make mistakes. If you are saved, no matter how far you get from God, you will always come back.
Great point and so, so true!
_____________________________
~For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ~
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 12:12:42 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
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"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9
I guess my singular thought, is this one above. It is by grace we have been saved. The grace that God has extended to give us a second chance. But after having recieved that grace/opportunity it is then that the ball is in our court. I think that is the confusion. You couldn't work your way into God's good graces to get Him to save you. It was His grace that said, "Okay, here's entrance into the Kingdom." However, making your election sure I believe is quite a different thing.
Think of it like this: by my grace, I invite you to come to the party. Once you are inside, your conduct will determine whether you will stay or I will have to ask you to leave. 2nd Peter speaks to this:
2 Peter 1:5-11
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
And again Hebrews:
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? --Hebrews 10:26-30
I don't know, it just seems to me the Bible is telling a different story than what we are painting. Somehow, I cannot shake the idea that we are painting only a "partial" picture. It may be accurate, but not complete. I'm starting to think we are only looking at one half of the picture. Yes, the moon is bright and beautiful, but it also has a dark side. If we forget that or ignore that, we may be missing important information in the Gospel to unbelievers as well as decieving ourselves about the Way. If Jesus is telling us to struggle to get into the Kingdom, how can we rightly say we once you're in, your in?
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 7:14:08 AM
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deliveredarling
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I fully agree with you Dakota. I share these very same concerns. I call it easy believism (not sure who created that term, but it fits).
Son in Me said we couldn't walk away because we were chosen. This is not true. Hebrews has this to say.
Hbr 6:1 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
Hbr 6:3 And this we will do, if God permits.
Hbr 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Hbr 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Hbr 6:6 and {then} have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.
Hbr 6:7 For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God;
Hbr 6:8 but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
This is apostasy and we can walk away. To say that we can't is false. We have free will.
I have heard so many half truths preached, because they sound good, they feel good, they tickle the hearers ears and draw crowds. To preach truth, people get offended, it's not what they want to hear. They might have to change how they are living......
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 7:32:00 AM
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heavenboundSR44
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The more I walk with God, The more my relationship with God gets stronger the more I am tempted to sin. I am active in my church, hold a bible study in my home and love the lord with all my heart. I am 44 and just lately have been tempted to shoplift. honestly do not have a clue where this has come from. I t is a strong desire when I go into a store. My husband makes very good money and I can buy what ever I want. This has become disturbing to me. And I recently acted on the temptation. I have prayed for forgiveness and and feel as though I have let down God.
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heavenboundsr44
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 8:01:50 AM
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DaveW
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"Man looks on the outside, God looks on the heart."
That is what HE told the prophet Samuel during the selection process for a king to replace Saul. While there are many things that can mean, it definately means that God sees a whole lot more than we do. There are things it all of this that we just do not comprehend, indeed much is probably beyond our capacity to understand.
This is no different. People have debated for millenia about how this all fits together, and I am sure that neither here or in the one stop thread on law and grace anyone will settle the issue to everyone's satisfaction. The best we can do is embrace both truths, that God is gracious and merciful, and that He has set high standards.
This truth is reflected thruought scripture; starting in Exodus where HE introduces Himself to the recently liberated Israelites:
I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Ex 20.5b-6 NASB
Paul reminds us in Rom 11 "Behold the goodness and severity of the Lord." To focus on one to the exclusion of the other is an error by emphasis. The "easy believism" or "sloppay agape" is just that, focusing on only one side of the truth.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 9:07:03 AM
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URForgiven
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Our struggle is not against flesh and blood. It is a spiritual struggle. The nature of our struggle is truth versus error, and the battleground is the minds of men.
Our goal is not to win a better lifestyle for ourselves or a more comfortable atmosphere for us to worship in. Our goal is to present Jesus to a world that is lost. To make known the Gospel, in the hope of making disciples who will in turn do the same. And our weapons are Spiritual weapons... prayer, praise, and the Truth of the Word of God.
On the subject of OSAS. Salvation is the receiving of life...eternal life. This life is in Jesus Christ. When you receive Him, you receive His eternal life.
God does not lie. When He says the life that saves you is eternal, He means eternal. If it is life that can go away, then it is not eternal life, it is only temporal life, and God is a liar. But, we know God does not lie.
So, when someone says that a person can loose their salvation, what are they calling God?
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 9:48:01 AM
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stampinlady
Posts: 1933
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From: Northern IL
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quote:
The more I walk with God, The more my relationship with God gets stronger
I've learned lately that when I'm tempted and go to the Word or call out to God He hears me and gets me through whatever I'm currently struggling with. I really believe that verse that says we are to "renew our minds." For me, when I think a bad thought I need to take it captive right away lest it take over me. I also pray what David prayed ... "See if there be any wicked way in me!" BUT overcoming a certain sin is such a joy!
_____________________________
Deb
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 3:12:43 PM
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deliveredarling
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Dakota,
If the day ever comes that i will not struggle, I know I will be dead. It is a struggle for anyone who desires to be Christ like. You've heard it said that we have to die to self.....moment by moment. I can't just get up every day and pray and be Christ like. Things happen and I catch myself being right in the middle of ME. I am so much better than I used to be and feel very confident that He makes me better each day as I learn to give more control to Him. Those fruits of the Spirit, especially self-control, help remind me that He has given me a brain to use the knowledge that He has given me. I trust that He is living and walking beside me. I also trust that He has expectations of me, to do His will and be in His will. I trust that when I seek Him for answers to life's problems that he provides them. I trust that He uses me. I also thrust that I have a sinful nature, just like the Bible tells me I do and He loves me in spite of myself. We weren't given instructions and guidelines for no reason. He didn't warn us that the gate is narrow and really mean that it is easy. I'm afraid that certain doctrines being preached today are leading a bunch of very sleepy attenders. In Revelations, to the churches, He tells them to "Wake up". If we count the cost to follow Him, it is a high price to pay to give up ourselves. If we are not struggling with this, we aren't following the Jesus of the Bible>
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 6:23:13 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1154
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delivereddarling,
Amen! I could not have said it better. I just wonder, do these individuals actually KNOW they are teaching error or are they decieved. I know for myself, I'd begun to wonder why when I witnessed to people telling them about God's love and how they could be forgiven, why it didn't seem to convict. Now I realize I wasn't telling the gospel the way Jesus Christ presented it. When I read the scriptures, I find that Jesus Christ was very plain with His speach, "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." He was very honest about the costs involved. I think this is key, not only when we present the gospel but as we live our lives and disciple others.
Good post DaveW!
UrForgiven, I totally agree with you up until here:
quote:
On the subject of OSAS. Salvation is the receiving of life...eternal life. This life is in Jesus Christ. When you receive Him, you receive His eternal life.
Think of life eternal as a car. Jesus Christ hands it to you. As long as you have that free car and are on good terms with Him you can drive it anywhere. You are assured that He will always fill up the tank, have it serviced, and keep it clean. But when you rebel, and refuse to follow the terms of service, the car is recinded. The car will ALWAYS be a car, it will always be serviced by Him, always clean--but you, may reject it.
Let's try that with eternal life. God gives you eternal life. He promises when you have it, you can live in abundance and grace. You live forever. But if you reject Him (you reject eternal life), where can you go?
It is the GIFT of eternal life, which can be rejected EXPLICITLY or IMPLICITLY (stop obeying, loving, etc).
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 6:29:02 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
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heavenboundSR44,
As you grow in Christ, you should be able to withstand certain temptations a little better, as you transform your mind and become more of a relfection of Christ. Something is amiss, if as you grow you become weaker to Satan's attacks and temptation. You should definately seek out counselling asap! Go to a mature believer, pastor, christian friend. It is important that you constantly gage yourself. The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That means, you'll need to examine critically why you are more tempted now than you were when you were younger in Christ. See whether your election is SURE--secure. Do you have a prayer life? Do you fast? Do you communicate with God? Do you obey scripture? Do you guard your thoughts? Do you forgive? These are just a few questions I could think off of the top of my head. But you really should begin to investigate this.
If you want me to send you some scriptures or something, you can PM me and I'll send you a few. But I highly recommend speaking to a mature believer asap!
Take care!
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 6:44:55 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 544
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
delivereddarling,
Amen! I could not have said it better. I just wonder, do these individuals actually KNOW they are teaching error or are they decieved. I know for myself, I'd begun to wonder why when I witnessed to people telling them about God's love and how they could be forgiven, why it didn't seem to convict. Now I realize I wasn't telling the gospel the way Jesus Christ presented it. When I read the scriptures, I find that Jesus Christ was very plain with His speach, "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." He was very honest about the costs involved. I think this is key, not only when we present the gospel but as we live our lives and disciple others.
Good post DaveW!
UrForgiven, I totally agree with you up until here:
quote:
On the subject of OSAS. Salvation is the receiving of life...eternal life. This life is in Jesus Christ. When you receive Him, you receive His eternal life.
Think of life eternal as a car. Jesus Christ hands it to you. As long as you have that free car and are on good terms with Him you can drive it anywhere. You are assured that He will always fill up the tank, have it serviced, and keep it clean. But when you rebel, and refuse to follow the terms of service, the car is recinded. The car will ALWAYS be a car, it will always be serviced by Him, always clean--but you, may reject it.
Let's try that with eternal life. God gives you eternal life. He promises when you have it, you can live in abundance and grace. You live forever. But if you reject Him (you reject eternal life), where can you go?
It is the GIFT of eternal life, which can be rejected EXPLICITLY or IMPLICITLY (stop obeying, loving, etc).
Then you just called God a liar.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 6:46:08 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
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No I didn't. Eternal life is eternal. You can't lose it. But you can reject it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
delivereddarling,
Amen! I could not have said it better. I just wonder, do these individuals actually KNOW they are teaching error or are they decieved. I know for myself, I'd begun to wonder why when I witnessed to people telling them about God's love and how they could be forgiven, why it didn't seem to convict. Now I realize I wasn't telling the gospel the way Jesus Christ presented it. When I read the scriptures, I find that Jesus Christ was very plain with His speach, "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." He was very honest about the costs involved. I think this is key, not only when we present the gospel but as we live our lives and disciple others.
Good post DaveW!
UrForgiven, I totally agree with you up until here:
quote:
On the subject of OSAS. Salvation is the receiving of life...eternal life. This life is in Jesus Christ. When you receive Him, you receive His eternal life.
Think of life eternal as a car. Jesus Christ hands it to you. As long as you have that free car and are on good terms with Him you can drive it anywhere. You are assured that He will always fill up the tank, have it serviced, and keep it clean. But when you rebel, and refuse to follow the terms of service, the car is recinded. The car will ALWAYS be a car, it will always be serviced by Him, always clean--but you, may reject it.
Let's try that with eternal life. God gives you eternal life. He promises when you have it, you can live in abundance and grace. You live forever. But if you reject Him (you reject eternal life), where can you go?
It is the GIFT of eternal life, which can be rejected EXPLICITLY or IMPLICITLY (stop obeying, loving, etc).
Then you just called God a liar.
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 6:52:16 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 544
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
No I didn't. Eternal life is eternal. You can't lose it. But you can reject it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
delivereddarling,
Amen! I could not have said it better. I just wonder, do these individuals actually KNOW they are teaching error or are they decieved. I know for myself, I'd begun to wonder why when I witnessed to people telling them about God's love and how they could be forgiven, why it didn't seem to convict. Now I realize I wasn't telling the gospel the way Jesus Christ presented it. When I read the scriptures, I find that Jesus Christ was very plain with His speach, "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." He was very honest about the costs involved. I think this is key, not only when we present the gospel but as we live our lives and disciple others.
Good post DaveW!
UrForgiven, I totally agree with you up until here:
quote:
On the subject of OSAS. Salvation is the receiving of life...eternal life. This life is in Jesus Christ. When you receive Him, you receive His eternal life.
Think of life eternal as a car. Jesus Christ hands it to you. As long as you have that free car and are on good terms with Him you can drive it anywhere. You are assured that He will always fill up the tank, have it serviced, and keep it clean. But when you rebel, and refuse to follow the terms of service, the car is recinded. The car will ALWAYS be a car, it will always be serviced by Him, always clean--but you, may reject it.
Let's try that with eternal life. God gives you eternal life. He promises when you have it, you can live in abundance and grace. You live forever. But if you reject Him (you reject eternal life), where can you go?
It is the GIFT of eternal life, which can be rejected EXPLICITLY or IMPLICITLY (stop obeying, loving, etc).
Then you just called God a liar.
We are talking about those that already have it. If you aint got it, you've got nuttin to loose. And if you've got it, God won't let you loose.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 7:29:24 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
Posts: 1154
Joined: 6/2/2005
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
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quote:
And if you've got it, God won't let you loose.
I think that's the crux of it my dear!
For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? --Hebrews 10:26-30
Hebrews paints a different picture. In fact, Jesus Christ paints a different picture. The point of this thread, is that maybe we are overlooking some things. For instance, you made that bold statement above, and yet here we have Hebrews 10:26-30. I don't believe you are trying to be decietful, but just maybe you only have HALF of the picture. Maybe you're missing a few MAJOR minor details.
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 9:39:37 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 790
Status: offline
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UR, please refer to post # 10 for further scriptural confirmation. Can't call God a liar when He speaks of it.(through Paul) Why would you deny this? It's written in black and white for you. I guess your going to tell me that I'm taking it out of context and misusing it. Before you do, do your homework.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 10:26:47 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 679
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: online
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Yes, I struggle everyday. As I mature in my faith, my struggles have changed.
When I was baby Christian, I would struggle with God when I don't get what I prayed for, or when I can't do what I want.
As I grew, I struggled with God whether He was really real. Every doubt that I encountered, it either made me sunk in despair, or made me search and pray for wisdom and knowledge.
Now, my struggles are different. I struggle everyday to share the word with people I work with. I struggle thinking they might find me too archaic for believing, and trusting in Jesus. I struggle that I won't get accepted. I struggle with thoughts of not doing enough, not being "christian" enough in my daily walk. I struggle with not praying every time I know I should, or when I know i should read my bible but goes on the internet instead. I struggle with not loving God with all my strength, my heart, my being. I struggle with not loving people, not forgiving people. I struggle with my pride. I struggle with fears. I struggle with my lack of understanding. And on and on and on.
Do I have peace. THere's times I don't. That's when I cry out to God. But for the most part, I think that I'm beginning to understand God, and I'm beginning to submit, though it's still a struggle. I just read last night what Jesus said to His disciples the night before He was arrested. He said that the world will hate them (the disciples) as they are not of this world. Jesus spoke to them about the things to come to them..the persecution, the killing of Christians, and Jesus warned them and prayed for them. Then Jesus said before He prayed, "I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In this world, you will have trouble, But take heart, I have overcome the world.". Isn't that something. Jesus didn't say he will take our troubles away. He said that in Him we can have peace inspite of our troubles in this world, because He has overcome the world.
Struggles develops our character, and strengthen our faith. I think it's a mechanism built into our early lives so that we can have a more Christ like character when we get to heaven. I mean, how else is God going to grow those characters in us? It's when we have struggles that we are more in tune to God.
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RE: Do You Struggle? - 5/7/2008 11:10:04 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 544
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
UR, please refer to post # 10 for further scriptural confirmation. Can't call God a liar when He speaks of it.(through Paul) Why would you deny this? It's written in black and white for you. I guess your going to tell me that I'm taking it out of context and misusing it. Before you do, do your homework.
Salvation is the receiving of eternal life, that eternal life is in Jesus Christ. If you say that you can loose your salvation, then you are calling God a liar. For you are saying that the life God gives and we accept at salvation is not eternal, but temporal, making God out to be a liar. There is no way around it.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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