Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already been revealed......
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Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already bee... - 5/9/2008 5:27:27 PM
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SomeFineDay
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I was reading a Charles Stanley book today, and in one of the chapters he wrote that God will not give us further guidance on matters we need help with until we comply with what he has already told us to do.
What do you think?
Does failure to obey separate a Christian from God's leading or does God keep on leading even though we stumble?
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/9/2008 5:38:04 PM
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HisCovenant
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I think He keeps on leading... from my perspective, He's already told us everything in the Bible. You can't "comply with what He has already told us to do" because then we'd be perfect. In effect, what that quote implies is that you have to be perfect of God won't lead you.
I'm sure Charles Stanley didn't mean to imply that. I'm not a big follower of his, but I can't imagine him taking it that far.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/9/2008 5:41:29 PM
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Focusing
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God is there and waits patiently for us. Sometimes we have problems walking the path with Him. Occasionally we get sidetracked or something catches our attention and we stray. But He is always there, waiting patiently for us. When a stumbling block comes along and we need His help, He stretches His hand out for us ... it is up to us to reach for His hand though.
Another way of looking at it, and I can only explain it from my own personal experiences, is we go through trials. Sometimes we think we *get it* and then continue along on our merry little way ... only to be confronted with the same problem again. And again. And again. Until we seek Him and His guidance, putting on the blinders, converse with Him, ask Him "Father, what is it I'm not understanding? What is it You want me to learn from this?" and listen to Him ... that's the key, we must listen and do what He tells us. And until we get it, until we follow Him, we will continue to be led along this path in a seemingly circular motion, continue to be frustrated, continue wondering "Why does this keep happening to me?"
So, yes, Charles Stanley's comment makes perfect sense to me. There are parts of our lives that will not move forward until we give them up fully to the Lord.
I have found that as time goes on, I am more intune to these stumbling blocks, and I go directly to Him and seek His guidance. It's a part of maturing spiritually.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/9/2008 7:01:15 PM
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Conquered
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quote:
I was reading a Charles Stanley book today, and in one of the chapters he wrote that God will not give us further guidance on matters we need help with until we comply with what he has already told us to do.
What do you think?
Assuming your representing Charles correctly or to just take this at face value:
This idea is largely unbiblical and it smacks of legalism.
For example, God gave David further guidance even though he committed murder (had Uriah the Hittite killed) and adultery. God gave Jonah further guidance (tough guidance I admit in the belly of a large fish) after he disobeyed a direct command to preach at Nineveh. He gave Peter further guidance after he denied his God three times and after he began to indulge in legalism (see Galatians 1 and 2).
God does whatever he pleases and he gets his way with every Christian, with all of his chosen ones. At times, he will allow us to suffer the worldly consequences of our disobedience even though we repent, and at other times he will heal these troubles, but in every case he forgives the repentant sinner, and that IS our greatest need.
Unfortunately, I have heard some of Stanley's calliber equate "matters we need help with" as being help with financial problems, health, etc. But this too is unbiblical, and a kind of covert "health, wealth and prosperity gospel" because God "sends rain on the just and the unjust" meaning that God sends trials to correct our disobedience as well as test our obedience...i.e. Job.
quote:
Does failure to obey separate a Christian from God's leading or does God keep on leading even though we stumble?
For the Christian, those whom God has chosen before time began, it's both - all dependant upon his grace, his will and his wisdom.
< Message edited by Conquered -- 5/9/2008 7:07:27 PM >
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/9/2008 7:35:25 PM
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LCannon
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Probably he's saying that when God has revealed a point of arrogance or further growth potential He won't 'lead' further until we've humble ourselves in obedience to that arrogance or potential thus setting the next stage in vulnerability for the next obedience to His sacrifice.
a. Little Faith (restless, struggling, wavering)
b. Great Faith (reaching, maturing faith)
c. Perfect Faith (resting faith)
It's a loop.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/9/2008 7:46:33 PM
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Conquered
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quote:
a. Little Faith (restless, struggling, wavering)
b. Great Faith (reaching, maturing faith)
c. Perfect Faith (resting faith)
It's a loop.
All true, and not to pick, but don't forget that "No Faith" looks an awful lot like "Little Faith" particularly with the self-deceived - and there are many who are self-deceived and very few teachers (from great to small) who want to talk about it with any depth or concern.
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You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. - John 15:16
www.desiringgod.org
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/9/2008 11:27:10 PM
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LCannon
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1 Corinthians 13:1-"If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but have not love I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers and understand all mysteries and all knowledge and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains but have not love I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have and if I deliver my body to be burned but have not love, I gain nothing."
When 'they' claim to be redeemed by the same blood as me I can't judge; only the person and God's call; however, some souls have pretty sour fruit. I try to keep my distance lest they spit their acid at me.
< Message edited by LCannon -- 5/10/2008 1:50:46 PM >
_____________________________
"[Prayer power] hasn't never been taxed to[His]full capacity.
His standing challenge, 'Call on Me and I will answer with great and mighty
things which thou can't imagine." Hudson Tayor
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/10/2008 5:11:26 PM
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Liveloved
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The verse that immediately comes to mind is John 7:17.
If any man is willing to do His will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
I, of course, do not know specifically what Charles Stanley was referring to but there is very definitely a willingness to do God's will that leads to further revelation from Him.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/10/2008 6:32:09 PM
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PolarBear
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Loren Cunningham of YWAM has written something along these lines. I think it's along the right lines but as "Conquered" has pointed out, it isn't hard and fast -- God often graciously continues to lead even when we don't perfectly follow. But in general if you receive specific supernatural revelation and ignore it, I think you're much less likely to get more of it.
IIRC Loren called it the "axehead principle," referring to the story of the king losing his axehead in the water and Elijah(?) going back to summon it up (don't remember ref). He had to go to the same place he lost it to get it back. The idea is that if we lost God's guidance, we go back to the last thing He told us to do.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/10/2008 11:32:57 PM
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Dakotasunbeam
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Somefineday,
I understand what Stanley is say. He's not saying that God will stop leading you, what He's saying is that the direction He has given you will ALWAYS be His answer to your problem. Many people want God to tell them something different from what He has already outlined in the Bible. It is a fallacy to think that God will tell you to do something that goes against His word. Many people will feel that God will not give them any direction--but the fact is, He already did it, and He has no intention of changing that. So, people keep asking, wondering, and they think God is not leading them.
Let me give you an example. Let's suppose you are driving around trying to find 22 Elm Street, and you happen to meet me on the street and I know where it is. You ask me where you can find the address, and I tell you to take Oak Street down till you get to Redwood Avenue and make a left and turn right at Elm and you're there. But let's suppose that does not suffice you. Let's suppose you ask me again, "Hey, how do I get to 22 Elm Street?" I blink, pause a moment and repeat what I said earlier. "No, no, you tell me, I want to know HOW do I get to 22 Elm Street." At this point I"m a little puzzled, I can only guess that maybe you do not apprehend the language I'm usuing well so I speak slowly the same directions. You sigh heavily in anger and tell me, "I want to go to 22 Elm street, how do I get there!" After telling you a few times, there really is nothing else for me to say to you. The only thing left is for those in your part to induce you to take my directions or go in search of another individual or route. If you ask 10 people and they give you the same directions as i do, at this point, its clear you do not want that advice, even though you have asked a number of people who told you how to get there.
God even moreso, because He is the only one you have put the question to, and the only One who actually knows the way to go. Many times we ask God questions we ALREADY know the answer to, and God directs us to His word or gives us the same answer He's been giving for a million years to those who ask.
How can God continue to lead you if you will not take the directions He has given you to 22 Elm Street? How can He lead you any further if you will not accept that the first step is taking Oak Street down to Redwood Blvd? God stands there asking, "What else do you want me to say?"
I think this is the perdicament some believers get into when they are asking God for something. They refuse the first step in the leg of the journey, and so what else is there for God to say to them? It seems God has gone quiet.
I also believe GROSS transgression can cause God to be silent. God needs for us to get back to that place where He can lead us. He may lead us back to His word or He may lead us back to a scripture. He's saying follow after righteousness! He never stops covicting us to come back, or turn from sin, or obey His word--so in that sense He is still speaking. But in terms of giving us "another" word, we may be hard pressed. Additionally, growing completely hard hearted is a horrible state in which we refuse the advice He has given us and we WANT to go on our own way. We KNOW the right way, but refuse to follow it. In this sense, the danger comes when you cease to hear Him knocking on the door of your heart. Now THAT is a scarey prospect.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/11/2008 12:11:41 AM
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SD456
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SomeFineDay
I was reading a Charles Stanley book today, and in one of the chapters he wrote that God will not give us further guidance on matters we need help with until we comply with what he has already told us to do.
What do you think?
Does failure to obey separate a Christian from God's leading or does God keep on leading even though we stumble?
I understand what Stanley is saying, and I have heard Loren Cunningham also teach this as another poster said.
I believe it's true for the most part. If God tells us to do such and such and we don't, then He's not going to give us the next step if we can't even do the first step. We need to be obedient with what He has given us already or else He won't continue giving us new direction.
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RE: Does God not lead unless one obeys what has already... - 5/11/2008 11:54:14 AM
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iamjc-s
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
I think He keeps on leading... from my perspective, He's already told us everything in the Bible. You can't "comply with ALL what He has already told us to do" because then we'd be perfect.
Agreed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisCovenant
In effect, what that quote implies is that you have to be perfect of God won't lead you.
I'm sure Charles Stanley didn't mean to imply that. I'm not a big follower of his, but I can't imagine him taking it that far.
He may have meant that God won't lead you to step 2 until you've gone to step 1.
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