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Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/18/2008 11:33:28 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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First off there are a lot of verses I feel that destroy the Calvinistic view of limited atonement but this one popped out today to me. Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
I looked in my Greek New Testament and both of the word alls were the same word. So it is saying that through Adam's sin ALL came under Judgment. In the same sentence the same word ALL was used in the Justification through Jesus. How can anyone combat that?
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"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 12:43:07 AM
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my quivers full
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I'm not sure I understand limited atonement but all means all. No matter what your sin, be it a murderer, thief, child molester, selfish whatever, if you turn to Jesus with a repentant heart, forgiveness and salvation is granted.
It's a tough thing for some to accept, but I understand the bible as saying God opened wide the door for all to come, but the choice to come is ours. We can't come on our terms, we come on His terms, through Jesus. He is the only gate, the only door, the only way. You can't come to the wedding feast unless your properly dressed and Jesus is the only one who can produce the right garments, your robes of righteousness. If we refuse His way then we limit ourselves and we have no one else to blame.
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 12:46:21 AM
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Ezra
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There are plenty of verses that destroy Limited Atonement -- indeed demolish this false doctrine. Unfortunately this thread is also going to be destroyed in a hurry.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 12:52:47 AM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 213
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From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
First off there are a lot of verses I feel that destroy the Calvinistic view of limited atonement but this one popped out today to me. Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
I looked in my Greek New Testament and both of the word alls were the same word. So it is saying that through Adam's sin ALL came under Judgment. In the same sentence the same word ALL was used in the Justification through Jesus. How can anyone combat that?
THe problem with your interpretation of Romans 5:18 (as you have used it above) is - if you follow your argument to its 'logical' conclusion - then you are proclaiming a universal salvation, that is, to say that all people will automatically be saved whether they believe in Jesus or repent of their sins or not. And of course, we know that universalism is a GREAT heresy. So, you will have to look a little farther to find a Scripture that destroys the Calvinistic view of limited atonement... :)
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 12:53:28 AM
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slimon11
Posts: 141
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I know we are forgiven for all of our sins, so I do get a little confused when I see scripture like this:
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)
Is this only concerning people who have not accepted Jesus?
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 1:08:13 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 184
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
First off there are a lot of verses I feel that destroy the Calvinistic view of limited atonement but this one popped out today to me. Romans 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.
I looked in my Greek New Testament and both of the word alls were the same word. So it is saying that through Adam's sin ALL came under Judgment. In the same sentence the same word ALL was used in the Justification through Jesus. How can anyone combat that?
THe problem with your interpretation of Romans 5:18 (as you have used it above) is - if you follow your argument to its 'logical' conclusion - then you are proclaiming a universal salvation, that is, to say that all people will automatically be saved whether they believe in Jesus or repent of their sins or not. And of course, we know that universalism is a GREAT heresy. So, you will have to look a little farther to find a Scripture that destroys the Calvinistic view of limited atonement... :)
I do not believe in universalism, I do believe it takes Faith in what Christ did, and I do not think this verse contradicts that.
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 1:16:44 AM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 213
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ
THe problem with your interpretation of Romans 5:18 (as you have used it above) is - if you follow your argument to its 'logical' conclusion - then you are proclaiming a universal salvation, that is, to say that all people will automatically be saved whether they believe in Jesus or repent of their sins or not. And of course, we know that universalism is a GREAT heresy. So, you will have to look a little farther to find a Scripture that destroys the Calvinistic view of limited atonement... :)
I do not believe in universalism, I do believe it takes Faith in what Christ did, and I do not think this verse contradicts that.
If you are equating the two "alls" in Romans 5:18 to mean exactly the same thing, then yes, you are promoting universalism. The first part of the verse reads: "Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation." The "all" in this Scripture, and the context of this passage in Romans 5, means that every single human being is born with a sin nature, and that all have sinned and fallen short of God's glory, and are in need of salvation. You cannot now take the 'all' in the second part of this verse "even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life" to imply that all human beings are automatically justified of their sins, regardless of their faith and repentance. You are simply taking the Scripture out of context. To accurately interpret this Scripture, you must compare Scripture with other Scripture. How do you reconcile this truth with Acts 13:48? "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 3:07:19 AM
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GraceBro
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First of all Jesus death on the cross didn't "atone" for anything nor was it limited. Atonement is the temporary covering of sin through the shed blood of bulls and goats. Christ's death was a propitiating sacrifice which was a taking away of sins from the eyes of God for eternity.
"My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world." 1 John 2:1-2
Secondly, a major mistake that is made is assuming that Jesus dying on the cross is salvation. The death of Jesus on the cross doesn't save anybody. Since Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, it is assumed that there is universal salvation. We all know that isn't true. But the Calvinist inserts their error by saying that God must, therefore, choose who is saved and who isn't and that man doesn't have a free will. However, the meaning of the resurrection is lost in all of this. Salvation is the restoration of life, we lost in Adam, made possible through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Since all mankind is born spiritually dead to God in our sins, God had to deal with the sin that prevented Him from restoring the life we lost in Adam. Thus, you have the death of Jesus Christ. Now that the sin barrier is out of the way, God can now offer His life, as a free gift, to all who believe. And because of the eternal consequences of the cross, there is now no sin that will cause that life to leave again. That is why it is an eternal life. A life that will carry you through this life and on into eternity even after you die. And all you have to do to see this reflected in scripture is go back a bit further in the same chapter.
"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!" Romans 5: 8-10
The Gospel is sin, death, forgiveness, restoration of life.
Grace and Peace
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www.livinggodministries.net
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 3:32:10 AM
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Little_1
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All have sinned and come short of the glory of God and because all came under condemnation because of sin - Jesus made it possible that 'all' could be put right again with God through His blood sacrifice. That does not mean that 'all' will choose to accept Jesus' sacrifice. God so loved all the world but not all the world loves Him! In His great love, God has made it possible for 'all' to come into relationship with Him and He puts the call out to 'all' but not all listen and want to come unto Him. If Jesus died only for a limited people - then where is a loving God in that? God would not be very loving not offering all the same option to choose life or death to everyone and He certainly wouldn't be just and fair! Those who do not choose God will have no excuse at the Judgement and they cannot say that God never loved them because God's love sent Jesus to Calvary's cross for all and was available to 'all' but some rejected this and they will have only themselves to blame very sadly.
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
ROMANS 12:12
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 8:07:47 AM
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OleFitzHi
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Limited atonement is really just a play on words. Christ's work on the cross in only effective for those who accept Him. It really doesn't apply to those who reject Him because they are outside the covenant, by their own choice of course. Limited atonement really doesn't describe the concept. Don't get too hung up on the label.
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RE: Doesn't this verse destory Limited Attonement - 7/19/2008 8:19:23 AM
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ta_mosquito
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In an attempt to consolidate for the purpose of effective moderation we have created a One Stop thread for debate of Calvinism/Arminianism topics. Therefore, this thread on the topic is being closed.
Please continue your discussion there.
Here is the link:
CLICK HERE
Thank you!
Tricia
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