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Examine Yourselves - 5/25/2008 5:02:22 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1897
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All I can say is Wow?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzZL_0Nb3XQ&feature=related
What do you think about this?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/25/2008 5:12:19 PM
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SonInMe1
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Some preach a watered down version.
Some preach a concrete version.
One is too flexable. The other is too rigid.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 8:45:32 AM
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beyond
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Rigid!! would make a believer that is struggling with a habitual sin feel condemned!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 9:01:14 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1897
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Shouldn't the habitual sin be pulled into the light for examination?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 9:43:31 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5244
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quote:
ORIGINAL: beyond
Rigid!! would make a believer that is struggling with a habitual sin feel condemned!
Well, are not those with habitual sin in their lives condemned?
Now just pointing out sin, and not teaching how to deal with that habitual sin is a problem.
And acutally true salvation is the only cure I know for habitual sin.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 10:02:44 AM
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beyond
Posts: 48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Shouldn't the habitual sin be pulled into the light for examination?
Yes, with out a doubt! But breaking free from a habitual sin does not always happen over night! I had to counsel and work with my pastor for well over a year, before gaining complete freedom from a certain sin!
Many were willing to condemn me to Hell along the way too! Thankfully God is Longsuffering!
< Message edited by beyond -- 5/30/2008 10:48:12 AM >
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 2:24:26 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5244
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quote:
ORIGINAL: beyond
Yes, with out a doubt! But breaking free from a habitual sin does not always happen over night! I had to counsel and work with my pastor for well over a year, before gaining complete freedom from a certain sin!
Why would it not happen overnight. Just because it took you a year to understand salvation and accept it, does not make that time frame the norm.
The promise to those of us who are saved is;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
So if one is a child of God (Saved) then there is no excuse to sin (Being a newbie or whatever). If a Christian chooses to sin he does so in rebellion to God, Scripture, the Sacrifice of Christ and the Ministy of the Holy Spirit.
We are told to be found by Christ without spot or wrinkle, and if we do not be obedient to that; then we are disobedient to this;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So evidently one who chooses to continue in sin is none of His.
And the following is the end run of not being obedient to Him;
(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Everyone who claims to be a Christian needs to be obedient to Scripture or they are just fooling themselves.
So one needs to get right or get saved so you can get right.
So examine yourselves and do the right thing;
Thanks
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 5/30/2008 2:31:29 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 4:01:17 PM
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Liveloved
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Delivered,
I just watched this and find it excellent! Yes, he is speaking true words indeed. Many are not in the faith.
I found these words some of the most significant, "if you have repented, you will continue to repent." This is what I see as lacking within the body of Christ. I see an 'I have arrived', 'I'm in', and very little passion for Christ and what He is passionate about.
Fellowship and walking in the light is not just about being in the word of God. It is about the Word being in you, Jesus in you, living His life through you.
Arrogance is the big deceiver. Jesus humbled Himself and that is the path we must follow if we fellowship with Him and walk in the light.
Thanks, Delivered, for sharing this wonderful, truthful, and needful message! Bless ya, dear!  LL
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 4:13:15 PM
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beyond
Posts: 48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: beyond
Yes, with out a doubt! But breaking free from a habitual sin does not always happen over night! I had to counsel and work with my pastor for well over a year, before gaining complete freedom from a certain sin!
Why would it not happen overnight. Just because it took you a year to understand salvation and accept it, does not make that time frame the norm.
The promise to those of us who are saved is;
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
So if one is a child of God (Saved) then there is no excuse to sin (Being a newbie or whatever). If a Christian chooses to sin he does so in rebellion to God, Scripture, the Sacrifice of Christ and the Ministy of the Holy Spirit.
We are told to be found by Christ without spot or wrinkle, and if we do not be obedient to that; then we are disobedient to this;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So evidently one who chooses to continue in sin is none of His.
And the following is the end run of not being obedient to Him;
(Mat 7:20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
(Mat 7:21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
(Mat 7:22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
(Mat 7:23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Everyone who claims to be a Christian needs to be obedient to Scripture or they are just fooling themselves.
So one needs to get right or get saved so you can get right.
So examine yourselves and do the right thing;
Thanks
RC
So your telling me you have not sinned since you got saved!!
And your telling me that some one who was sexually abused as a child gets saved and all the consequnces of that transgression are gone, all the emotional confusion is gone, and just like that!
Hmmm
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 5:53:29 PM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4486
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I found these words some of the most significant, "if you have repented, you will continue to repent." This is what I see as lacking within the body of Christ. I see an 'I have arrived', 'I'm in', and very little passion for Christ and what He is passionate about.
I have seen and experienced this as well, and I think a major component is that we are not being discipled to maturity and are not discipling others to maturity. It's fine to come to church and have a milky sermon and Sunday School lesson where we totally feed off what God communicated to others. What bout the meat? What about getting it directly from God? We have leadership that is on the same maturity level or lower then most of the congregation, and that seems to be fine with most congregations. One things for sure... they don't want the boat rocked and if we dumb everyone down we can pretend that certain sins aren't sins and certain commands aren't commands. Where is the Word that convicts? The one that cuts sharper than a two-edged sword? Why are we content to gossip about God among ourselves and not get to know Him for Him, from Him?
I think part of the answer is that the way is narrow and all in church aren't "the church." They don't want to hear convicting messages. They don't want to be held accountable. They don't want to hear truth in love. They are selfish and that's the way they like it.
I think another part of the answer is that "the church" isn't following in Christ's way due to immaturity and false ideas about what being a Christian means. Some of us are too concerned about being dogmatic with doctrines that are unclear. Some of us worship our denomination instead of Christ. Some of us believe anything a "pastor" says. Some of us don't understand Spiritual Gifts and that we are expected to use ours. We want to give others the benfit of the doubt without examination. In doing so, sometime we make grevious errors in who we allow to lead and teach us.
We have to continually examine ourselves. I'll bet Solomon never expected to fall away as he dedicated the temple in Chron 6 and God promised Israel that if they followed Him he would heal their land in 7. I'll bet he examined himself and found himself on God's side for much of his life. However, he had a continual sin issue that led him into idolatry. God examined him and found him lacking. I have no hope of seeing the wisest man who ever live in heaven. If that doesn't stop you in your tracks, I don't know what can. It's had me on my knees for months, and I'm still shocked and dismayed to think about how his heart turned away even after God blessed Him & his nation, and after God used him so gloriously. Amazing!
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 7:47:26 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5244
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: beyond
So your telling me you have not sinned since you got saved!!
The thread is about habitual sin, and no I do not have a habitual sin, neither do I commit willful sin.
quote:
r telling me that some one who was sexually abused as a child gets saved and all the consequnces of that transgression are gone, all the emotional confusion is gone, and just like that!
Christ said at the very beginning of His Ministry;
(Luk 4:18) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
(Luk 4:19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Was Christ just joking with us or do you think that our Savior can and does what he says.
Folks can either accept Christ and be set free,or they can wallow in their misery; it is a choice.
Thanks
RC
[Edited by moderator - TOS 5]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 5/30/2008 9:59:08 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 7:55:19 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1063
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: beyond
So your telling me you have not sinned since you got saved!!
The thread is about habitual sin, and no I do not have a habitual sin, neither do I commit willful sin.
so the truly saved only sin by accident?
the confessing of sin is only for the unsaved?
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/30/2008 9:57:07 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11162
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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quote:
so the truly saved only sin by accident?
That's what Holiness folks believe.
_____________________________
Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 2:42:33 AM
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SinnerSaved
Posts: 306
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From: Belfast, N. Ireland
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
What do you think about this?
Same as you.
All I can say is Wow!
_____________________________
"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 8:04:20 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5244
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
so the truly saved only sin by accident?
the confessing of sin is only for the unsaved?
Anyone can sin, Believers and unbelievers alike.
God gives believers a way to escape the temptation to sin and therefore not sin; it is still up to the Believer to make that choice.
(Rom 6:6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
(Rom 6:7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
(Rom 6:8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
(Rom 6:9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
(Rom 6:10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
(Rom 6:11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
And
(Rom 6:20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
(Rom 6:21) What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
(Rom 6:22) But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
We were slaves to sin, but when we become Christians we no long are slaves to sin, but can make the choice not to sin.
But of course IF we sin;
(1Jn 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And praise God for that, but please note the IF we sin, it does not say WHEN we sin. any sin in a Believers life should be few and far between or that Believer needs to;
(2Co 13:5) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 8:07:16 AM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
so the truly saved only sin by accident?
That's what Holiness folks believe.
Sorry ta-mosquito, but that is not an accurate description of the doctrine of Holiness.
Very basically; Holiness belief is that a Believer can choose not to sin by the promises of God, the sacrifice of Christ, and the ministgry of the Holy Spirit. (1 Cor. 10:13)
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 5/31/2008 8:15:49 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 8:20:55 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3523
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No anger? No lust? No exaggeration? No exasperation? Love everyone? Tithe and give offerings? No coveting? Always edifying? Not one idol worship...not one?
If a "truly" saved person does not sin, why is there repentence?
Forgiveness?
Sanctification?
I am all for examining yourselves but, if salvation means we don't sin anymore...there isn't a need for self examination is there....or is that just for us imperfect christians? You know, the lesser christians. Those christians that are not as....good...as you all are.....
of course those aren't really saved are they? If you sin, you are damned to hell.
Sounds to me that you don't believe in Grace or the blood of Jesus....or your need for Jesus. You have it all together, never sin and always are pure.
My pastor had a sermon called No Perfect People Allowed. Seems your churches would believe No Imperfect People allowed....are there any but two or three in your churches....and how many acadamy awards do they have?
I am all for holiness and I don't believe in excusing sin in any way but what I have read in this thread is...people who sin are not saved...its the duty of every christian to feret out the sins of their brethern and to confront them wether you know them well or not....and those who follow the Law perfectly are the only ones who are saved.
I also have experience with churches who believe this. Its not that they are sinless christians...its that they cover it up.
Tell me the difference between this fallacy of the holiness movement and name it claim it? It seems to be the exact same thing. If you claim your holiness enough, it will come to pass.
I don't think it works that way.
What about the tax collecteor...if I remember corectly...who said have pity on a sinner like me? The pharesee gave thanks he wasn't like the tax collector....which one are you?
What about the thief on the cross who didn't have time to do good works?
Paul said he was chief amungst sinners.
The centurion was praised for his faith...more than any in Isreal...was he sinless? Was he judged by his sinless nature...or by his faith?
Saved by Grace through faith...where is sinlessness in that?
If sin seperates us from God what did faith in Christ attain us? Nothing? If sinlessness saves us then why did Christ come? The Law would have been enough.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 10:03:14 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5244
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
No anger? No lust? No exaggeration? No exasperation? Love everyone? Tithe and give offerings? No coveting? Always edifying? Not one idol worship...not one?
If a "truly" saved person does not sin, why is there repentence?
No one is saying that Christians can not sin, but if they are true Christians they can choose not to.
Scripture covers thin is;
(1Jn 2:1) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And IF any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Please not the "IF", that would be the norm for a believer, IF they sin, then there can be forgiveness. That is miles from "When" we sin as Christians.
What you are referring to is the doctrine of "Sinless Perfecton" which is where a persn cannot sin, and I know of no one on these boards that believe that. Though there are those that believe that when a Chrsitian sins it is not really sin because God cannot see it. (I think that one is a little crazy also).
Thanks
RC
edited for spelling
< Message edited by rcjames -- 5/31/2008 10:10:30 AM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 10:15:47 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11162
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From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
This thread is getting off topic. The OP was asking about the video and testing yourself to see whether you're in the faith, assurance of salvation, and the marks of a true Christian.
If you'd like to discuss the sinlessness of a believer or that Christians no longer willfully sin, please do so in THIS THREAD. (There are others in the doctrine folders - feel free to search them out.)
I realize that some folks say that being sinless is a mark of a true Christian, so there's some overlap here. However, this thread is turning into yet another debate about whether Christians can be sinless, and we've had plenty of threads on that topic to turn yet another one into that debate.
In other words, passing references to the sinlessness of a believer is fine; turning this into another debate on the topic is not.
Thanks!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 5/31/2008 2:04:07 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
Its not that they are sinless christians...its that they cover it up.
Soninme1,
I totally agree. Darkness has blinded them. Pride (arrogance) keeps us from fellowship with God and with others. Those who are in the darkness of pride seem unable to examine themselves.
That is why we must humble ourselves and pray for the Lord to humble us so that we can see ourselves rightly.
Note: I am trying to keep this on topic re: examining ourselves. The two subjects are so intertwined. Please forgive me if you think I've erred.
< Message edited by Liveloved -- 5/31/2008 2:10:19 PM >
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/1/2008 1:56:13 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3523
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
No one is saying that Christians can not sin, but if they are true Christians they can choose not to.
I totally agree. We have the power not to sin in Christ Jesus.
I hope this isn't more off topic but I will add, part of being christian is admitting to your imperfections. It seems to me many christians just want to go to church to feel better or be social or whatever else it is that church makes them feel better about themselves. Part of going to church should be....a self examination. Being convicted by the Holy Spirit.
If you walk away from every sermon with a good feeling...I am afraid your sermons are that terrible...eartickling variety. Certainly sermons should edify but I think part of edification is...the truth. Sometimes to feel good about ourselves we must be tempered in the fire of truth.
I am not advocating beating up the congregation with hell and brimstone. I am talking about sermons that have true substance...that make you think and examine yourselves to see if you are on God's path for your life.
To be honest, sometimes its hard going to church. The truth can be...uncomfortable.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/1/2008 9:28:17 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 415
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quote:
What do you think about this?
I think I would love to see SOMEONE who truly understood what it meant to examine ourselves.
I think I would love to find SOMEONE who understood what the term DOCTRINE meant-from it's original meaning to how it is currently perverted in our religious system today.
I think I would LOVE to find someone who understood what Jesus meant when He said "find out what this means, I desire mercy not sacrifice" (Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7 and follow up in Roman 12:1).
I think I would LOVE to find a group of believers who understood that rules only help with regards to the SPIRIT within which they are written-if one does not understand the spirit of the rule, one cannot understand the rule itself. Likewise, if one attempts to make following a rule a law unto itself, they have "cleaned the outside of the cup" but left the inside as dirty as it started out. THAT'S the great paradox of our age-we are pushed more and more "rightousness" (which in so many cases is not rightousness at all) at the expense of true love for God.
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/1/2008 6:47:15 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3523
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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Part of examining ourselves should be not accepting the sermons on face value. We should always confirm what we are taught with what is in the bible.
Pastors are great....they just ain't God.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/1/2008 11:21:46 PM
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Walker311
Posts: 1501
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
I think I would love to see SOMEONE who truly understood what it meant to examine ourselves.
I hate mirrors. They do not lie. It often shows me something that people do not see or even notice. I see so many outward flaws but realize that there is only so much that I can do about them. I can get a new haircut or nicer clothes but neither last.
Spiritually, there is quite alot that I can do about the mirrored flaws.
The most important part of self examination are the tools that we use. When we use the tool of Christ-likeness, we will always come up short. However, the resemblance should be apparent to others in that they should be able to see the family that we belong to. When we effectively apply the word of God to our flaws, they can be completely removed... forever!
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