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Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 12:58:28 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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I know what this means to me. What does it mean to you?
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Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 1:17:07 PM
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LCannon
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"Love as the Bible defines it is only perceptible through action not merely feeling."-Elisabeth. Elliot-
"Stop saying 'we love' when our actions show little evidence in practice." -1 John 3:18-
“[His message] is near you, in your mouth and in your heart"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching that if you confess [obedience to] Jesus as Lord with your mouth and you will be saved. For with the heart a person believes resulting in righteousness and with his mouth he confesses resulting in [obedience].” Romans 10:8-10
< Message edited by LCannon -- 10/6/2008 1:35:44 PM >
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 5:19:25 PM
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doinkdom
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You can fill your head up with doctrine, theology, the law, historical context, etc. but if you don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ...what good is it, other than to impress?
Or you can focus on only the emotional relationship with Jesus Christ, but when heresy comes your way, will you be able to discern that and not let it hinder your walk?
Is that what you meant?
IMO, it's a balance. Head knowledge should lead me to a better understanding of my Lord and in doing so, strengthen my relationship with Him.
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 5:21:28 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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To me head knowledge is something that you learn and understand in your head. While heart knowledge is when you understand something with your heart. Like when you've read a peace of scripture many times and think you understand it, then Pow, one day you read it and you really, reallys get it. How it applys to your life. Like LCannon's example, you can say you love, or you can live it.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 6:52:13 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
I know what this means to me. What does it mean to you?
That the evangelical subculture nurtures schizophrenia, creating an artificial and unbiblical conflict rather than submitting as whole persons to the Almighty.
Origen, an early Christian scholar, assumed the same kind of imaginary antipathy between "soul" and "body," and took a rather gruesome step to deal with "the lust of the flesh." (google "Origen's rash act" for details.)
Origen only maimed his body. People who buy into the "head vs. heart" myth maim their personalities in the name of some kind of superior "spirituality."
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 7:07:38 PM
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PastorPatricia
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I grow up in Sunday school and church, I could tell you all about Jesus, who he was, how and why he died and so on. But I didn't know Jesus. When I accepted Jesus and made Him lord of my life that knowledge moved from my head to my heart.
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But be sure to fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart; consider what great things he has done for you. Is. 12:24
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 7:12:08 PM
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galadriel2
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I haven't heard anyone get down on separating head and heart in a while. The separation, if I'm not mistaken, is a by-product of existentualism - the secular philosophy of despair (really) that gave up on man's ability to be able to find and know 'absolute truth'. Without an objective truth and reality to understand and evaluate all of life that is always true and there (Jesus Christ, i.e.) one's life becomes a series of meaningless and pointless acts. Thus, the most honest activity and living is one that doesn't include too much reasoning or analysis or deduction because you can't ever know anything true anyway - action that is 'emotional' rather than rational.
What is the difference between head knowledge and heart knowledge? Something that is strictly in your head is something that you know about. Something that you know 'in your heart' - in your affections I take people to mean - is something that begins in your mind and understanding. You come to know the facts of the Gospel in your understanding - of Christ, His life, His love, the significance of His life, death, and resurrection and you understand that Christ died for sinners - but then, by God's grace this very important and critical 'head knowledge' makes its way down to your heart (the core of your being) and you come to realize that I am a sinner and thus Christ died for me and you never, ever get over it.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/6/2008 10:30:18 PM
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Dancre
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Head knowledge means I hope God will do this for me but he might not. I don't really understand how He works or who He is b/c i don't read the Word as much as I should.
Heart knowledge means I KNOW God will do this for me b/c I understand Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
I know what this means to me. What does it mean to you?
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 12:50:32 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Something that you know 'in your heart' - in your affections I take people to mean - is something that begins in your mind and understanding. You come to know the facts of the Gospel in your understanding - of Christ, His life, His love, the significance of His life, death, and resurrection and you understand that Christ died for sinners - but then, by God's grace this very important and critical 'head knowledge' makes its way down to your heart (the core of your being) and you come to realize that I am a sinner and thus Christ died for me and you never, ever get over it.
In the aftermath of "Mr. Graveyard's" existentialist philosophy, other "scholars" imagined that they could distinguish between "the historical Jesus" (who might or might not have existed) and "the Christ of faith," Who offered personal experiential salvation. The problem with this, of course, is that the Jesus who isn't really, factually, historically real is a Jesus who cannot really save.
At the lowest point of my life, I had to bet my life on the facts of the gospel (Incarnation, Propitiation, and Resurrection) because my experiences seemed to disprove the feather-brained, feeling-heavy version of the gospel that had (mis)guided my life up to that point.
Approximately 5 years after my conversion, my brain began to come back on line. This was a painful experience, filled with disillusionment, uncomprehending anger, and ultimately solid hope. I had, after all, spent half a decade suppressing my cognitive faculties, in order to better hear my "heart" -- and discovered that Jeremiah was dead right about the "heart" --
quote:
"The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
I, the LORD, search the heart,
I test the mind,
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 1:11:46 AM
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zamdad
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After 16 years in corrections I have seen head knowledge disbursed, received, and regurgitated, but I know it does not become heart knowledge when I see the person time after time.
I’ve seen many people come to Christ in jail. They fill their heads full of knowledge about Him, the Bible, some doctrine, etc. Yet they have not let that information sink into the chest cavity of their being. It’s a means of impressing others with the knowledge they possess. Yet, others are less likely to be impressed with the fruit that falls from the person’s branches.
A couple of years ago, in my blog, I wrote about jails being made of magical bricks. The walls of those jails are, generally, constructed of brick. Talking to inmates locked up with the bricks, the impression is given that those bricks can speak. The bricks impart life lessons that are going to be applied to life on the outside to avoid returning to spend time with the magical bricks.
Yet, on release day, each inmate has to walk out the exit sally port. There is some type of machine in the exit sally port that sucks the lessons of the magical bricks right out of the releasees skull. If the lessons of the magical bricks do not make it into the soul of the inmate, the inmate becomes a man or woman with head knowledge. Something they do not know how to apply to life on the street. The only ones that are truly successful are the ones who get the knowledge from the head to the heart as they are the ones who apply what they’ve learned and begin producing fruit that is good.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 3:14:13 AM
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Little_1
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We can be very knowledgeable about the Bible but unless this knowledge is ignited by the Holy Spirit and applied to our lives, we will remain "dead people walking".
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 7:50:36 AM
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timf
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Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge
I just wrote to a friend concerning this very topic. Here is some of what I wrote.
In my consideration of good and bad doctrine and doctrine that is right or wrong, I began to see something more important. The word doctrine is just teaching. However, we mean something different today than in Bible times. Today we mean almost exclusively raw data and facts from books or classroom / sermon lectures.
I suggest that this type of dessicated doctrinal data is like having a load of bricks dumped in your yard. You can spend your entire life cold and wet because you do not know how to turn the bricks into a warm and dry home. Often a person might suggest that more could be done with the brick, but you might get angry at the implication that something is wrong with your bricks. I see much denominational rancor and divisiveness as contention about brick quality amongst people who have yet to build houses.
In Bible times I see "teaching" more along the apprentice model than the classroom model. The involvement in the life of a person is a more effective way to "teach" the "how tos" in a context meaningful to an individual. Often the concept of more involvement in the life of a person being taught is seen as preferable but quickly dismissed as impractical to today's busy life. I suggest that more than preferable, such teaching is essential and the incompatibility with today's church and seminary systems only shows the flaws in those systems rather than showing the involvement in the lives of the individual being taught as being unessential.
I saw a comment on a John Michael Talbot video on Youtube where a woman said that even though he was a Roman Catholic, his music had an "anointing". I would say that both JMT and the woman making the comment have different "bricks" in their houses than I have. Yet transcending this is a real heartfelt connection to our mutual Savior. People who have built "houses" and heard the Lord "knocking" and invited him in do not get so bent out of shape over doctrinal differences.
People who feel denominational doctrine is more important seem to be those who are walking furthest from our Lord. They seem to have a low opinion of the effectiveness of the leading of the Holy Spirit of Truth and feel that the quality of the theological "bricks" dumped in a persons life is the same as helping them build a "house" where the Lord is present.
At first one might consider that the church was co-opted by the worldly systems of education to emphasize abstract facts at the expense of personal instruction in holiness. However, I can see that even early in the second century you have catechetical schools, the elevation of prominent people, the adoption of the academy and rhetorical skills. While much of this was justified as necessary to fight error, Christians throughout the centuries have paid a high price for it.
I see the most important "doctrine" (teaching) for Christians as how to grow into the image of Christ. It seems today that most Christians are buried in a pile of correct "doctrine", they just do not know how to be like Jesus. Receiving detailed instruction of the anatomy of the lungs or how the process of respiration works may be true, but it may not be helpful when you are drowning.
The reason most of our churches retreat into sermon lectures is because that is what seminary students receive. As a result, Christians are taught that "lessons" in Sunday school and listening to sermons are sufficient "instruction" for Christian grown. The Bible paints a picture of a more personal relationship of both Christians with each other and Christians with their Lord.
The Bible says we should "cry out" for wisdom. I think this makes a case that the emotion of crying (passion and heart connection) precedes intellectual (wisdom "head knowledge"). Since wisdom, understanding, and discernment come from the Lord, it is this heart connection that first has to be established. Since it is not so well understood, it is often dismissed as unessential or something for weak people.
Jesus comments about this are interesting. The Bible tells us about a woman who was very emotional in her reaction to Jesus was viewed with disdain by a man who commented to Jesus that the woman was a "sinner". Jesus responds by asking him who would be more grateful, a man who was forgiven much or a man who was forgiven little. The man answered that them man who had been forgiven much. Jesus used this to show why the woman was acting emotionally. We need to ask, "Was the woman a worse sinner or was the man unaware of the depth of his own sin?"
If we do not feel the need to be emotional in our approach to our Savior, is it because we are not very emotional, or that we don't really understand how much has been forgiven.
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 12:10:52 PM
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galadriel2
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Thanks, RJR_fan, for sharing your experience. I think there are a lot of Christians who still try and set aside their mind in order to experience God, joy, love, etc.. But (and I learned this from someone else) when you read your Bible you will often find the word 'therefore'. 'For I am conscious of nothing against myself, yet I am not by this acquitted; but the one who examines me is the Lord. Therefore do not go on passing judgment before the time, but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men's hearts; and then each man's praise will come to him from God.' (1 Cor. 4:4,5) First Paul gives the doctrine and the teaching, then comes the 'therefore' - the thinking it through and drawing our conclusions from the doctrine as to how we should apply it. The getting it down into our hearts, affections, and wills, in other words. God's grace doesn't bypass the understanding.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 3:16:49 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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Well, I asked for it didn't I?
I see some kind of undertand it the way I do, while others consider it to be emotions, because of the use of the word heart. And some I don't even understand where your coming from. Perhaps its better just not to use this expression considering how it means different things to different people.
RJR_fan, I don't know anything aout "Mr Graveyard's existentialist philosophy" or teaching of a false Jesus. That wasn't what I was talking about at all. I was talking about how you can read scripture and understand that we are to forgive (to me head knowledge), then you can read it again and understand, Oh, I am to forgive! (To me heart knowledge.) Not some kind of secret knowledge or twisting of the scripture.
Anyway like I said, all things considered maybe I'm better off not even use this expression. Thank you all for your responses and God bless.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 3:21:40 PM
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PureLight
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In my opinion, it's the difference between knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge is simply knowing a fact and wisdom is understanding how to put that knowledge into action. =/
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/7/2008 4:47:05 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
"Mr Graveyard's existentialist philosophy"
ACTUALLY, I was commending you on a beautifully reasoned comment. "Mr. Graveyard" was Soren Kierkegaarde -- since that is the literal translation o fhis name -- "church yard."
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Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/8/2008 1:28:43 PM
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LivingParadox
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Both. ?
Actually if I had to pick one over the other heart knowledge but we need both.
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/13/2008 2:49:13 PM
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violeteyes71081
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In my wonderful yet challenging experience of this walk with the Lord I have learned through qualifications of experience that the head, or our minds at most times are our worst enemy. That it is through the constant renewal of our hearts through the word of God and intimate relationship with God that keeps our mind/head focused on the will of God in our lives. So is it really head knowledge vs. heart knowledge? Better yet how about heart and head knowledge vs. carnal knowledge, because without a heart after God’s own heart to keep the mind/head renewed the flesh pretty much takes over through its knowledge of what solely pleases oneself. 
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/13/2008 3:25:38 PM
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OneJohn410
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I'd like to know how someone can not submit as a 'whole' person to the Almighty, who I think we both are referring to as Almighty God, the Everlasting Father, from whom no secrets are hid.
Thanks,
OneJohn410
quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
I know what this means to me. What does it mean to you?
That the evangelical subculture nurtures schizophrenia, creating an artificial and unbiblical conflict rather than submitting as whole persons to the Almighty.
Origen, an early Christian scholar, assumed the same kind of imaginary antipathy between "soul" and "body," and took a rather gruesome step to deal with "the lust of the flesh." (google "Origen's rash act" for details.)
Origen only maimed his body. People who buy into the "head vs. heart" myth maim their personalities in the name of some kind of superior "spirituality."
_____________________________
For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope. -Romans 15:4 (NIV)
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/13/2008 5:27:40 PM
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Teaching_The_Way
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From: Teaching The Way Ministries
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Heart Knowlege verses Head Knowledge? How can we know for sure?
When some one is talking to us about scripture, how do we know if they only have head knowlege or heart knowlege?
Do we know their hearts and their intentions? Do we know if God sent them to us or they sent them selves?
When people talk about "Heart Knowlege verses Head Knowledge", do we just say that because we do not like the truth that is spoken to us? Is that another way for people to reject the truth of God so that we can make God in to somebody that we feel comfortable with?
Is there scripture to back up the terms "Head Knowlege vs Heart Knowlege" theologogy ideas?
ANd How can anyone have the true knowlege of scriptures without love and the power of God being with them? Is it possible? Does the scriptures open up to the unsaved (False Christians)? The scriptures (understanding and truth) of them only open up to the True Born Again Christians)!
So head knowlege? The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law thought they knew the scriptures and yet they did not understand them.
And Jesus said:Matt 13:14-15
14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand ,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.' NKJV
_____________________________
http://teachingtheway.net/
If our opinions does not line up with
the scriptures, then our opinions are
dead wrong! Gods words are more important
than our opinions!
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/13/2008 5:36:38 PM
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deliveredarling
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Head knowledge avails us nothing if we don't have the heart knowledge to apply it.
Both are required to have a relationship with Jesus.
You can't have one and not the other and know Him.
Heart knowledge is the application of the head knowledge by the leading and guiding of the HS.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/13/2008 5:47:22 PM
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solarflare
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"Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is - his good, pleasing and perfect will."
Romans 12:2
Experience does not qualify for relationship anymore than it qualifies for knowledge. The heart, as personified in the Bible, does not really mean emotions as we so often think of them.
For example, in Rom. 2:15 we see the heart as the seat of the conscience. "The requirements of the law are written on their hearts" does not connotate emotion, but rather knowledge of what is and is not acceptable to God.
"hardness" of heart means a turning away from the truth...whether in the OT or the NT.
The heart must be changed.....our thoughts renewed. I don't find that it is a vs matter, rather a combination of the 2. Hopefully, with knowledge, discernment and renewal over emotions.
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RE: Head knowledge vrs Heart knowledge - 10/13/2008 5:48:49 PM
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Teaching_The_Way
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AMEN Friend:)
_____________________________
http://teachingtheway.net/
If our opinions does not line up with
the scriptures, then our opinions are
dead wrong! Gods words are more important
than our opinions!
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