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Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 12:43:39 AM
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ekserekseez
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I'm wondering, for people who vote in the election and for whom "values" issues are important, is there a hierarchy of issues? Does one trump all others?
For instance, my dad is pretty anti-abortion. For him, this is the deal breaker. A candidate could be a gay socialist suicide bomber, and dad would vote for him if he were anti-choice. My mom, on the other hand, is really pro-defense (she comes from an old military family). If she thinks someone is strong on defense, she couldn't care less if they're pro-choice. That's why she liked Giuliani.
So which issues trump others for folks here? Abortion, defense of marriage, lower taxes, whatever?
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 12:47:16 AM
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Thessa
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The belief in God is number one for me. If they show to be a 'wishy washy Christian' then thats it.
Number two is gay marriage. If they support that then i dont want them in office either.
Then it goes down to pro-life issues and taxes and of course how they propose to handle terrorism.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 12:47:30 AM
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Jhud
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For me, its:
- Judiciary
- The War on terror
- The economy/ taxes
- Public Policy
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 12:57:47 AM
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ekserekseez
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Thanks! See, I knew this would be interesting, at least for me.
I find each of your #1 issues interesting. Judiciary is a good one, that's sort of like the genie giving you three wishes, and your first wish is more wishes, because if you control the judiciary you control about 90 percent of social policy. The belief in God thing is interesting too; my dad used to say that, then he read that Martin Luther wrote that he'd rather be ruled by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 12:59:15 AM
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Thessa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
Thanks! See, I knew this would be interesting, at least for me.
I find each of your #1 issues interesting. Judiciary is a good one, that's sort of like the genie giving you three wishes, and your first wish is more wishes, because if you control the judiciary you control about 90 percent of social policy. The belief in God thing is interesting too; my dad used to say that, then he read that Martin Luther wrote that he'd rather be ruled by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian.
Congrats. You have 15 posts and have now been blocked by two people.
_____________________________
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 1:01:35 AM
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ekserekseez
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What does that mean? Anyway, thanks!
I am pretty much a one-issue voter myself. I vote for whoever I think will let me make and keep the most money legally. The other stuff is largely gravy.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 7:05:12 AM
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RangerForGod
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I am a strong believer in capitalism and a free market. A close friend of mine is a perfect example of the American Dream. He left school in the tenth grade to help support a single mother of 4 children. Started work in the industry that he is still in today. Started a company, it failed because of his lack of knowledge in a cut throat business. Meet a 'educated' person and the two started the business again. Became one of the largest in the mid-west. It took over 25 years, but now he can call himself a millionaire. He lives as if he's lower middle class, drives an old pick up truck, and is still the first person at work and the last to leave. Hard work, sweat, blood, and tears was his sacrifice. He despises most on welfare; saying many want the 'hand out' and not a hand up. He was never into politics until the 2000 primaries. We talked at length; I had to explain in detail the core values of each party. Today, he sees the democratic party as nothing more than 'tax monsters;' people who will take away from his business, and personal income, to give to those 'many' looking for a hand out.
I agree to most of his outlook. There are many that want 'big brother' to do everything for them because it is the easiest way out in exchange for nothing. Our country has had its ups and downs economically, but its the market and businesses that control the economy. Washington has little play, other than lowering/raising taxes along with the interest rate. As a G.M. of a $1M company, Mr. Obama's tax plan will cause us to one of two things: First, to stay competitive, we will either have to do away with benefits or lay off three people. Second, keep our employee and benefits and raise our prices. Our company is in a very competitive market, we have lost $100k projects by a $1k. How could we stay competitive if we either by raising prices or by having fewer employees that produce less products?
I read on another thread that people always have prospered under a democratic president; that person needs to look at the 90's and see who really controlled the govt. It was the GOP; they had enough strength to override Clinton's vetos. It was a very prosperous time and every (non-ideological) economists will tell you that it would not have matter who was in the oval office, it was the time. Our country hit the technological boom and very many businesses and individuals became very rich.
If Obama was not so far to the left, very much unlike Clinton, I would have to do some severe brain storming on this election. Yes, pro-life is very important, but my family is much more important. I believe I have the right to raise them how I see fit, to send them to the schools that is best for them. With less money in my pocket, and falling under the category of 'made too much money,' I cannot get breaks for the tuition. I cannot fully afford it also, but I have learned to budget in order to do so.
So I place these in this order:
1. Taxes
2. A true patriot and believer of our country
3. The Bill of Rights as wrote
4. Pro-Life - Christian
5. National Security
_____________________________
רק אלוהים יכול לשפוט אותי
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 7:24:43 AM
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Lizahana
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For me:
Getting us out of Iraq
the Environment
Healthcare for All
More fair taxation (not the same old, middle class bears the most per their salary)
Pro-life - however, I don't think it matters at this level since the Democrats control the Senate
Peace and God bless,
< Message edited by Lizahana -- 9/4/2008 7:47:38 AM >
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 7:41:35 AM
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ElmerFishpaw
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I think this is a very good thread to have!
OK.....
1. The average Joe or Jane Six Pack (or me a Diet Pepsi sixpack) will always be the cornerstone and heart of this country (the elite are not), so Labor rights and all it entails are my top.
2. Restoration of Liberties that have eroded... I don't agree holding people with no charge....ever....and that eavesdropping on citizens junk etc...
3. Education.....an educated population is a huge plus for a country. Leave Iraq and put the money into making our kids smart (teachers, school supplies etc.)
4. Leave Iraq....I never understood why the Iraqi people didn't do the rebuilding...I mean they had a modern society (SH was a dirtball though) and I mean they had builders, electricians etc..
5. Stop the Iran witchhunt.....I don't want them to have nukes either, but they have a right to self defence as much as we do here. It is not right to attack before the fact.
6. Stop cowing down to Israel.....Israel plays dirty...as do the rest of the Middle East
7. This kind of goes in with #1 but any corporation who uses foreign labor because it's cheap needs to pay hefty tariffs to import that product back enough to cover the wages gained by exporting. This country ran on tariffs before the income tax.
8. Infrastructure.....high speed rail, Air traffic Control, energy etc.
9. I am a member of the Green Party, but until the new energy sources come in, do some drilling. I want new companies to do it though....companies that will do solar, wind etc. along with oil...not the "Exxon same old, same old".
10. I truly believe moral issues (actually they are political)....should be more of a state thing.
11. I believe basic health care is a right....a face lift isn't though....a combination of government/private is the way to go. Health screenings, vaccinations, some generic prescriptions should be free for all. The fancy stuff is for insurance....carry insurance for the triple bypass, but a community clinic can give your thumb 3 stitches for free.
That's all I can think of at this time! my 2 cents...
_____________________________
"Aurora Borealis is Latin for flying saucer headlights"
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 8:01:43 AM
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ekserekseez
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Thanks folks for some very interesting replies! I like to see what other people consider deal breakers.
As I have said before, personally my trump issue is whatever lets me keep the most of my money. I will admit right here that I made my money the REAL old fashioned way: I inherited it, as did my dad, his dad before him, and so on back a very long time.
Money is my key issue because if you have enough, you can pretty much insulate yourself from anything else. Defense is number two for me (you don't want communists or religious extremists coming in and taking away your cash and your toys).
Other than these two, most of politics for me is a spectator sport. I find it endlessly fascinating how people will fall for a fool, or follow an idiot, or vote against their own self-interest (please note: these comments are not aimed toward the followers of any particular candidate).
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 8:13:43 AM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
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From: Wheaton, IL
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1. Abortion -Against it severely (i will not support a candidate who is completely pro-choice)
2. Gay Marriage -opposed to it
3. Gun Rights -lifelong member of NRA
4. Economy -fiscal conservative
5. National Defense -for it
6. Immigration -kick the illegals out, then bring them back in right
7. Government expansion -stop it
_____________________________
"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 8:43:31 AM
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ekserekseez
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Joined: 7/3/2008
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Thanks huskarine!
Just curious: For you, does the abortion issue trump all others? I know that for my dad, it does! For example, if there were two candidates for governor of your state, and one was pro-life without exception but supported gay marriage, and the other was anti-same-sex marriage but supported right to abortion, would you vote for the first one even with their pro-gay record?
Thanks!
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 1:02:53 PM
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sue244
Posts: 409
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
Status: online
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For me it is
1. Abortion- must be pro-life
2. Marriage - it is between one man and one woman
3. getting us back to the bill of rights including that often forgotten 10th one. (yes I know its a pipe dream but one can always hope)
4. Defense- A strong Army is good
5. Immigration - kick out the illigals and make them come back the right way.
6. Taxes - I'm for a flat tax across the board (yes its my other pipe dream)
edit for grammer mistakes
_____________________________
"Indeed I Tremble for this country when I reflect that God is Just and His Justice cannot Sleep Forever"
Jefferson
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Churchill
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 2:27:36 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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sue244:
You are my hero! I don't care about abortion, since I am sterile, and I don't care about marriage, since most of the people I know sleep with whomever they want, regardless of the marital status of anyone involved. Bill of Rights, defense, and illegal immigration are all good because they protect my stuff. Best of all is your support of the flat tax-I love you for that! The less I pay in taxes, the more I have for toys. And I must admit, I do like my toys! I'm in a high tax bracket, and I live mostly on inherited wealth. Grandpa's accountants weren't nearly as good at protecting income as they could have been, so even though I probably already have way more cash than is good for me, with a flat tax I could live even larger. And that's a good thing!
If we went to the flat tax, completely stopped all federal funds to illegal immigrants, and bailed on the Dept of Education, think how much money people would have! For those of you who support charities and such, you'd have more money to give to your preacher, or to the poor, or whatever.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 2:31:10 PM
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raivyne
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1. Judicial Nominees (Constructionist)
2. Defense/WoT
3. Pro-Gun Rights
4. Economic Policy (flat tax a major +)
5. Social Policy
Edit: ekserekseez reminded me about the Department of Education. I would like to see it modified to only be an oversight of testing standards. Too much $ gets lost in washington.
< Message edited by raivyne -- 9/4/2008 2:37:52 PM >
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 2:46:30 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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As for me it is National Security; for if we do not have that them abortion, taxes, school choice, women's rights, civil rights, etc. etc. etc. just will not matter as they would never happen is our country falls or has to declare martial rule for an extended period.
Thanks
RC
< Message edited by rcjames -- 9/4/2008 4:06:10 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 2:53:21 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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Thanks, RCJames! Your opinion certainly makes sense. Without national security, we wouldn't have any of the other freedoms. I think the people who put abortion first say the same thing, that if you're not alive your other rights are meaningless, so that makes sense too if you're into the whole abortion thing (I take it most of the folks here are anti-abortion).
This has been an interesting thread! Thanks and keep them coming!
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 2:53:53 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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1)Gun Rights--Molon Labe
2)Liberty from DC bureaucrats
3)Taxes--driving them as low as possible
4)Federal Bloat--shrink the monster
5)Foreign Policy
6)Illegal Immigration
7)abortion
etc..
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 2:57:11 PM
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ekserekseez
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As a classicist who took about ten years of Greek, I have to hand it to you, HighPlainsDrifter! Have you ever been to Thermopylae and seen the Leonidas memorial? Those are the only two words written on it.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 3:03:10 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7598
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
You are my hero! I don't care about abortion, since I am sterile, and I don't care about marriage, since most of the people I know sleep with whomever they want, regardless of the marital status of anyone involved. Bill of Rights, defense, and illegal immigration are all good because they protect my stuff. Best of all is your support of the flat tax-I love you for that! The less I pay in taxes, the more I have for toys. And I must admit, I do like my toys! I'm in a high tax bracket, and I live mostly on inherited wealth. Grandpa's accountants weren't nearly as good at protecting income as they could have been, so even though I probably already have way more cash than is good for me, with a flat tax I could live even larger. And that's a good thing!
If we went to the flat tax, completely stopped all federal funds to illegal immigrants, and bailed on the Dept of Education, think how much money people would have! For those of you who support charities and such, you'd have more money to give to your preacher, or to the poor, or whatever.
It's all about meeeee!!!!...its..all...about...meeeeeee!!!! 
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 3:13:43 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
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Well, it's pretty much about me, my friends, and what I'm into. Isn't that how you run your life? You do what you believe is right, and as long as you're not breaking the law or screwing with other people, you expect to be able to do what you believe is right.
What do you do, give everything you have to the poor, wear burlap, and live in a box? I bet you buy toys for your kids if you have them, and I bet you buy toys for yourself.
Why do you list the judiciary, WoT, economy/taxes, and public policy as priorities for you? Isn't it because these things allow you to live your life with the most freedom? YOUR freedom, not the freedom to do what someone else thinks you should?
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 3:18:38 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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1. National security. Without it, we won't have any of the rest of these.
2. Christian values. Includes anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, freedom to express faith in God, etc.
3. Stopping illegal immigration. From all countries.
4. Drilling for oil and natural gas here in this country. Alternative fuels & energy are fine, but right now we need oil.
5. Our 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms.
6. Private property rights. Eminent domain and environmental issues.
7. Reducing size of government.
8. Getting rid of the IRS. Institute a flat tax or a national sales tax.
9. Getting out of the UN. It's about the most useless organization around and we pay major funding for it.
10. Keep our armed forces strong, well equipped and ready.
My two cents worth.
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 3:19:45 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7598
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
Well, it's pretty much about me, my friends, and what I'm into. Isn't that how you run your life? You do what you believe is right, and as long as you're not breaking the law or screwing with other people, you expect to be able to do what you believe is right.
What do you do, give everything you have to the poor, wear burlap, and live in a box? I bet you buy toys for your kids if you have them, and I bet you buy toys for yourself.
Why do you list the judiciary, WoT, economy/taxes, and public policy as priorities for you? Isn't it because these things allow you to live your life with the most freedom? YOUR freedom, not the freedom to do what someone else thinks you should?
First off, as Christians we are commanded to think about others interests - whether we succeed at that is debatable, but that should be our goal.
And if others thought the way you do - pastors, missionaries, soldiers, teachers, doctors, nurses what do you think our society would be like? You're pleasures are the product of other people's labors - you can either wallow in selfishness o give back.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 3:21:24 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1300
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
Status: offline
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quote:
Have you ever been to Thermopylae and seen the Leonidas memorial?
Nope...
quote:
You do what you believe is right, and as long as you're not breaking the law or screwing with other people, you expect to be able to do what you believe is right.
Hard to argue much with this.
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Hierarchy of issues in presidential election? - 9/4/2008 3:22:46 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I kinda wonder about people like this, don't you? I also notice that he didn't fill out anything in his profile.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
You are my hero! I don't care about abortion, since I am sterile, and I don't care about marriage, since most of the people I know sleep with whomever they want, regardless of the marital status of anyone involved. Bill of Rights, defense, and illegal immigration are all good because they protect my stuff. Best of all is your support of the flat tax-I love you for that! The less I pay in taxes, the more I have for toys. And I must admit, I do like my toys! I'm in a high tax bracket, and I live mostly on inherited wealth. Grandpa's accountants weren't nearly as good at protecting income as they could have been, so even though I probably already have way more cash than is good for me, with a flat tax I could live even larger. And that's a good thing!
If we went to the flat tax, completely stopped all federal funds to illegal immigrants, and bailed on the Dept of Education, think how much money people would have! For those of you who support charities and such, you'd have more money to give to your preacher, or to the poor, or whatever.
It's all about meeeee!!!!...its..all...about...meeeeeee!!!!
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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