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Holidays/Holy Days - 8/28/2008 5:30:13 PM
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Bluethread
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After responding the Halloween thread, I thought it might be better to make a new tread. I do not intend this to be a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" arguement. This can just be a place to state the pros and cons of the various Holidays/Holy Days we each observe.
To start, The Scriptures provide us with specific opportunties to do all of the "good things" the derived "holidays" bring without the need for doing those things, which one might consider questionable. At this time of year: The Feast of Trumpets provides us with the opportunity to make noise and prepare oneself for Yeshua's return. Yom Kippur(The Day of Atonement) provides us with an opportunity for reflection on those thing we have not done correctly over the last year and reminds us that we can let go of those things because Adonai has accepted Yeshua's sacrifice. And, here is the tie in to the Halloween tread, Sukkot, the Feast of Tabernacles, is when we can identify with our dear departed while we camp out in the crisp Autumn air as they did in the wilderness. For those with ears to hear, I also think this last is when Yeshua was actually born.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 8/28/2008 5:37:40 PM
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stellaluna
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The problem around here seems to be that if you start advocating celebrating biblical holidays, you get accused of keeping the law when you shouldn't. Then you get shuffled off into the one-stop thread for that.
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 8/28/2008 5:40:35 PM
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dianetavegia
Posts: 2035
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
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Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God. 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations-- 21 "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," 22 which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
I love this scripture when those debates begin.
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 8/28/2008 5:48:49 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
The problem around here seems to be that if you start advocating celebrating biblical holidays, you get accused of keeping the law when you shouldn't. Then you get shuffled off into the one-stop thread for that.
That just shows us how important people think they are. Otherwise, catholic, patriotic, secular, druid, etc. observances would be shuffled off into one stop threads. Maybe that is what this will become.
If we keep it to "I prefer to do this because . . ." and "I prefer not to do that because . . .", maybe we can avoid that pitfall.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/3/2008 1:10:07 PM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
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I'm glad you specified which holidays were in consideration here. I just could not bring myself to enjoin the threads on Christmas and Halloween because at just a quick glance I could see the mockery, deception, and foolishness going on there. So let me be blunt here - blunt from the Book.
Christmas, Easter, Halloween, and Thanksgiving (to name a few) are NOT a part of the context of these verses nor are they to be found anywhere in the Bible. I'll borrow from a chapter of my upcoming book, Christian Mythology to discuss the truth. Let's start with Christmas....
"The fact is that none of these holidays are found in the Bible. There is no direct Scripture to support them. But you say that the wise men giving gifts to Jesus represents our gift-giving at Christmas-time. No it does not for two reasons. First, the event of the wise men visiting Jesus did not occur at or near the time of his birth. They visited many years later when he was a small child. How do we know this? Because that is the way the Bible was written in its original Greek.
Second, the event was a one-time thing with very specific meaning. Follow along in Matthew 2. The wise men were actually known as “king-makers”. That was their real job. It was a very common Eastern practice in those days. When a boy was born into royal lineage and he was next in line for the throne, the king-maker’s job was to go and prepare the boy for his reign. Symbolic gifts were given to authenticate the future kingship of the boy. But this was a very unusual gift-giving occasion because of the nature of the gifts. Gold would have been expected for a king. But myrrh was extremely out of the ordinary because its chief use in those days was for the burial of the dead. In this case, we know that this was a symbol of Jesus’s death, burial, and resurrection. The frankincense was an ingredient in the special oil that God prescribed for use by the priests in certain sacrifices. It was a symbol of sacrifice, prayer, and the High-Priesthood of the Lord Jesus Christ. This would also be an unusual gift to give to a king because God commanded that the offices of prophet, priest, and king be kept separate. No man could hold more than one without dire consequences.
If indeed our Christmas holiday was intended to be carried on today, that is, authorized by God in His Holy Word, then it certainly would not look anything like it does today. It would be precisely along the lines of His Word in Matthew. And that would be absurd. We would not dare to give such gifts to one another, or even give gifts with such associated meaning. They were meant for Jesus alone and no other. And they were meant to be given only once.
Another lesser reason that Christmas is not a true Biblical holiday is that no one knows for sure exactly on what day Jesus was born. December 25 is simply church tradition. But a stronger reason against this holiday is that in addition to the fact that we do not know what day His birth occurred, we also know in fact that nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to celebrate this event. The Bible is quite clear in its command, from Jesus Himself, that we are to “celebrate” His death, burial, and resurrection around the bread and wine. But no such command is given about His birth. It is simply blasphemy to associate this holiday with anything Scriptural or as having come from God. I can give no further Scripture to support this because that in fact is the strongest evidence that we are simply carrying on both a church-led doctrine and a Christianized pagan holiday."
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
I love this scripture when those debates begin.
If you only knew what this scripture actually meant! 
Verse 8, 14,20-22 will tell you that this was pagan tradition and Rabbinic/ Oral Law. "Ordinances" is the Greek word the dogmas which refers to opinions or judgments ; hence an opinion expressed with authority, a doctrine or decree.
Since God's word is not an opinion it can be concluded that the ordinances that were nailed to the cross was the Oral Law which put those who adhered to it under the Law (God's Word). The collosian church was surrounded be paganism/sun-god worship as well as pressure frfom those in the jewish community to conform to oral law (i.e judaizers). Armed with this information we can easily not misinterpret God's word to mean that the Sabbath, the feasts of Yahweh...are not for today and we don't have to be judged by others inside or outside of the Body of Christ for celebrating Yah's Holidays.
Sorry Bluethread...I'll abide by the rules of your thread next time!! 
_____________________________
Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/3/2008 1:39:42 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5584
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From: Oklahoma
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The following about sums it up for me as to keeping "Holy" days.
(Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/3/2008 1:52:53 PM
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LBolt
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quote:
The following about sums it up for me as to keeping "Holy" days.
(Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Thanks
RC
You fail to understand the context here. C'mon brother you are a pastor and teacher of the Word of God.
Mr. Caldwell, in all honesty, I see nothing wrong from a Biblical standpoint of celebrating Thanksgiving. Judging from the history and why it is celebrated. Thanking God for His provisions in the new land. Chanukka and Purim are not "Biblical" in the sense that Yahweh stated our observance of it like Pesach, Feast of Weeks or Tabernacles.
The problems or Cons of the other holidays is that it violates clear scripture in Deut 12 and Jeremiah 10:1-4, I've commented on it in the Christmas thread. We are not to take pagan customs and "Christianize" them and offer it back to Elohim. This is the same thing the children of Israel did when they offered the golden calf in Exodus.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/3/2008 2:40:12 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5584
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
The following about sums it up for me as to keeping "Holy" days.
(Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Thanks
RC
You fail to understand the context here. C'mon brother you are a pastor and teacher of the Word of God.
Would you care to elaborate?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/4/2008 7:19:23 AM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
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I did not elaborate on Thanksgiving but here goes.
Take a look at it from the world's perspective. It has a label that puts it in the Christian category. It also is highly commercialized. These two things tend to cast a great deal of misinformation about the holiday.
I agree that Biblically there is nothing wrong with it, just as you mentioned for example Purim (which is founded in the book of Esther). I do not judge any person for this day, as folks love to quote Colossians 2:16. My point about this particular day and others like it is that we have to be critically aware of its surrounding conceptions in a variety of audiences so that we are careful to accurately portray it for what it is.
For instance, one of the most heinous things that Christians do is to Christianize Halloween and rename it to Harvest Festival. The least of the crimes committed here is patronizing our children with the same tricks and treats inside the church so that they "won't miss out" on all the fun that their friends of the world are having.
Children are not stupid and they will soon recognize the hypocrisy of this switch.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
The following about sums it up for me as to keeping "Holy" days.
(Col 2:16) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:17) Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Thanks
RC
You fail to understand the context here. C'mon brother you are a pastor and teacher of the Word of God.
Mr. Caldwell, in all honesty, I see nothing wrong from a Biblical standpoint of celebrating Thanksgiving. Judging from the history and why it is celebrated. Thanking God for His provisions in the new land. Chanukka and Purim are not "Biblical" in the sense that Yahweh stated our observance of it like Pesach, Feast of Weeks or Tabernacles.
The problems or Cons of the other holidays is that it violates clear scripture in Deut 12 and Jeremiah 10:1-4, I've commented on it in the Christmas thread. We are not to take pagan customs and "Christianize" them and offer it back to Elohim. This is the same thing the children of Israel did when they offered the golden calf in Exodus.
_____________________________
Lawrence J. Caldwell
Author & Speaker
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/4/2008 9:29:02 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 930
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If you only knew what this scripture actually meant!
quote:
Verse 8, 14,20-22 will tell you that this was pagan tradition and Rabbinic/ Oral Law. "Ordinances" is the Greek word the dogmas which refers to opinions or judgments ; hence an opinion expressed with authority, a doctrine or decree.
Since God's word is not an opinion it can be concluded that the ordinances that were nailed to the cross was the Oral Law which put those who adhered to it under the Law (God's Word). The collosian church was surrounded be paganism/sun-god worship as well as pressure frfom those in the jewish community to conform to oral law (i.e judaizers). Armed with this information we can easily not misinterpret God's word to mean that the Sabbath, the feasts of Yahweh...are not for today and we don't have to be judged by others inside or outside of the Body of Christ for celebrating Yah's Holidays.
The book is Colossians...
That verse Col. 2:16, is encouraging us to not allow anyone (a judaizer, with his or her myriad laws regarding how to keep the Sabbath or someone not even a believer) to judge us in respect to those holy things mentioned. Messiah toke upon Himself the ordinances (dogmas) of man-made tradition and outright rebellion on calvary and liberated us.
Messiah taught so much about the Sabbath in the Gospels to just "do away" with it as is so errorously believed is unthinkable.---I wouldn't continuing this in the Sabbath thread... 
Anywho....Thanksgiving is a fine holiday, IMO.
Halloween isn't!! My previous church changed it to Holyween. They didn't celebrate Halloween because they know it's heinous origins and they encouraged families to take their kids out of the schools that day and to church to celebrate Holyween instead. They said they take the devil's day and give it to God.
I understand the reasoning behind it, I'm just not all for it.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/4/2008 4:40:58 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1388
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Messiah taught so much about the Sabbath in the Gospels to just "do away" with it as is so errorously believed is unthinkable.---I wouldn't continuing this in the Sabbath thread...
And the passages I listed said do not judge anyone for keeping (or not keepint); so I do not.
Thanks
RC
This speaks to one of the points of this thread. We must be careful not to mix the sacred and secular.
Some people like to equate the two passages. However, their contexts are different.
The first regards the keeping of the biblically apponited times with regard to salvation. Yes, we can not judge someones standing before Adonai based on how they keep the feasts or if they do at all. By the way, it does not directly refer to keeping or not keeping, but issues regarding.
Col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
The second is in the context of those things that the Scriptures do not talk to directly, i.e. vegetarianism, rabbinic observances(hannichah), meat offered to idols, and such.
Ro 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/16/2008 1:00:28 PM
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restinginHim
Posts: 432
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread... I do not intend this to be a "damned if you do/damned if you don't" arguement. This can just be a place to state the pros and cons of the various Holidays/Holy Days we each observe.... Perhaps this is the thread that will work best... 
In my childhood, i celebrated Christmas and Easter. For the past few years, my husband and i have chosen not to celebrate Christmas and Easter. We have had little church contact (we are unequally yoked   ) and i have had no bible study outside of my own home-- only by the Spirit with His word.
As i continued in reading The Word, i became interested in understanding more about the appointed feasts of GOD. I began sharing this with my teenage children. During Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and Feast of Weeks we read scripture pertaining to those days and the history of the Israelites fleeing Egypt, grain offerings and the giving of the Torah. We read and spoke also of Jesus the Messiah's last supper, His crucifixion and resurrection, how leaven is to be seen as a symbol of sin and that Jesus died to remove sin from our lives. Also, we speak of Pentecost-- how giving of the Torah relates to Jesus giving of the Holy Spirit.
Now the Holy Days of Fall are coming up...
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"As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love." John 15:9
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/22/2008 3:42:03 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3671
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From: a mother who let me live
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When I was still in the church, I was heavily convicted about observing halloween first. Through the years, the more serious I became about the L-rd, the more uncomfortable I was with it. But the church I attended then would turn the basement into a hall of horrors in order to entertain the church and neighborhood children, so as a Sunday school teacher, I was asked to help.
The year came when I told them, "This is it. I am not participating after this time." I was heavily criticized and cajoled for that decision but stood firm. However, when I moved out of state, the whole thing began all over again.
"It's for the safety of the children." "Better they come to a church than be on the streets." "At least the candy they get here won't have razors in it." "It's outreach." On and on it went, but refusing to comply, it made people upset. And when I remarried and moved to another state, it all started over. What a pain. What a dread. What a ridiculous situation to be criticized by other believers for one's stand against an evil holiday that glorifies everything G-d despises.
Christmas was harder yet, when I decided it was not for me, because I not only stood against the church, but I stood against my husband and children. My ending the Easter practice wasn't so hard on the family. Thank G-d, the family all understands now and are very kind about my beliefs, especially my husband. They actually come over and enjoy the celebration my husband and I now hold dear.
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Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Holidays/Holy Days - 9/22/2008 8:49:25 PM
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LBolt
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Amen!! Elohim calls His Feasts, appointed days, holy, and rehearsels! Is it coincidence that major events occured on the Feasts? Yahshua's bogus trial, death, resurrection and the sending of the Ruach HaKodesh at Pentecost occured on the Feast day? I believe the fall Feasts is when Yahshua will return.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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