How much of your life experience influences your perception of Scripture?
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 4:58:13 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
Do you ever find yourself defending you stance on scripture, and then realizing that your stance may be wrong? Do you keep defending it if proven wrong?
Are your views of the meaning of scripture influenced more by your life events and 21st century brain than by historical research into life in the 1st Century?
Have you ever been proven wrong, and admitted it in the forums?
Have any of you changed denominations or churches due to a change in your theology brought on by engaging in discussion here?
When I first joined CW, I held onto an inherently wrong view. I debated that topic for weeks on end. Finally, at work, God should me what the people at CW were trying to tell me. It was a hardcore slap in the face that I could not deny. When I got home from work that day, i immediately logged on and told them how very wrong I was and told them what had happened to change my view.
I did change churches awhile back because of what I believe to be faulty theology. not necessarily due to debates on CW, although the many discussion that produce the iron sharpening iron effect, help seal my decision to leave my former church.
The shaping of my views is based on both, not necessarily one over the other.
No, i don't keep defending something If I am proven wrong. What would the point of that be? I'm grateful to have learned that I was in error. Of course, I don't care for that stinging sensation of being humbled 
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 5:04:44 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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It's easy to admit I'm wrong when it's just a simple point of fact and I blew it. That happens with alarming frequency. It's tough when it comes to opinions and interpretations. For the most part, my opinions and interpretations have developed through both study and personal experience over the course of some (mumble mumble) number of years.
Since we typically have a large investment in both time and emotion with our opinions, we generally change them or admit their error only under duress and after a lot of back and forth. It also usually happens within the context of a relationship. My wife is very skilled in changing my mind, as is my mother or father, or a significant friend. Strangers however don't stand much chance.
When I'm debating with someone and am convinced of the rightness of my opinion, I somehow think I can magically turn them to my way of thinking in a matter of a few posts and 10 minutes. I will sometimes wonder why the goofball can't recognize clearly superior logic and reasoning and can't just concede defeat right now!
In reality, it takes a long time and a lot of discussion to change yours or someone else's viewpoint, and it never should be viewed as either victory or defeat - all learning is victory.
A person who's raised excellent points in a conversation on this forum is probably not likely to see the fruits of their labors on Crosswalk, much less within the specific thread on Crosswalk. While it may happen, on significant issues it's likely to be weeks, months, or even years later.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 5:06:31 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10531
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluestone
Do you ever find yourself defending you stance on scripture, and then realizing that your stance may be wrong? Do you keep defending it if proven wrong?
Never! 
Just kidding! Yep. I can't think of anything major but I'm always learning in discussions. I may not necessarily change my view on something, but I may realize that maybe my interpretation isn't as locked in stone as I thought it was and that maybe the other side isn't as "wrong" as I once thought. I would never keep defending something if proven wrong although I know sometimes people think so because they think they have "proven" their case and I'm still arguing mine. People need to understand that I am a born skeptic (doubting Thomas) and I tend to look at things from a little different angle than most people do so you may have proven your case to YOU, but I still may not be convinced. (Or you may have convinced me to further dig my heels in the ground and know that I have a good point). Many times, I may not be convinced the other side is correct, but I may have a better understanding of why people believe that and learn to have more respect for the position even if I still don't buy it.
quote:
Are your views of the meaning of scripture influenced more by your life events and 21st century brain than by historical research into life in the 1st Century?
Both. My experiences have made me who I am. I don't know how you separate your life from how you look at things. I don't know why you even would. On the other hand, we have to be careful that we understand what Scripture was saying at the timeo, to who, and why. I believe that the Truth in Scripture transcends time - but that doesn't mean we should like like people in 33AD.
That's why I think we must rely on both - history & personal experience. History will help you understand the concept that one of Paul's letter's was addresses and experience will help you know how to apply that concept to your life today. For instance: Not eating meat sacrificed to idols. Someone stuck in history only will say that there is no concept here - therefore since we no longer need to be concerned with our meat coming from pagan sacrifices, this rule no longer means anything to us today. However, my life experience says that the "rule" has a deeper concept which I can and should apply to my life today in terms of how I treat my brothers & sisters and what I think is right or wrong. How I apply that will often be related to events in my life - where I have experienced hurt from other and where I know I have hurt others.
quote:
Have you ever been proven wrong, and admitted it in the forums?
I can't think of any major shifts in my theology, but I have found myself on the wrong side on an argument before and won't deny it.
quote:
Have any of you changed denominations or churches due to a change in your theology brought on by engaging in discussion here?
I can't say I've had any major changes in my theology and I'm attending the same church I did before I posted here. In some ways, it has actually grown me closer to my church when I see some of the wackiness out "there"... It has certainly given me a better servant's heart in my church and helped me see that some of the things we get our noses out of joint over in church are really pretty dumb in the scheme of things. 
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 5:15:26 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1254
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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As John MacArthur said, 'I know I have errors in my theology the problem is I don't know where. If I knew I would fix them.' Defending error ranges from narrowness to blasphemy. We all have our baggage, traditions and heritage. I try not to prove anything, that's for other's to debate, I try to make my comments do double duty, to make people think about the issue at hand and to spur them to further research and personal growth.
Changed denominations or churches due to a change in your theology brought on by engaging in discussion here? Nope.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 6:24:17 PM
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dianetavegia
Posts: 2034
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
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Actually, our life experiences should be based on the guidance found in scripture and then we won't have misconceptions.
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 6:58:04 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2911
Joined: 11/16/2007
From: Up in the hills of Colorado (very BIG hills...)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dianetavegia
Actually, our life experiences should be based on the guidance found in scripture and then we won't have misconceptions.
I like the way that sounds, and it's a good statement of principle, but I fear it's not that simple in practice. I doubt that it's possible to look at scripture and not see it in some way through the filter of our own culture and experience.
My opinion - I believe the bible means what the original writer (Paul, for example) intended the original reader (the Ephesian church) to hear via the words he wrote. The more we know about ancient Ephesus, or early Hebrew culture, or ancient history in the Levant then the more we can begin to shed our 20th (or 21st) century assumptions and see scripture in its original light.
I think doing that helps tremendously in minimizing the impact of our own personal biases in the way we interpret scripture. Nonetheless, I don't think I'll ever totally rid myself of modern thought and read the bible like a 1st century Greek or ancient Hebrew.
For one, though I endeavor to read the bible objectively in it's original light as best I can, my opinion on the role of women in leadership and what the bible really says about that is hopelessly biased. That's just one example. Given a choice between two legitimate readings, I'll favor the more egalitarian every time. I'll likely see a legitimate egalitarian reading even when it may not really be there!
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 8:41:16 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10531
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: dianetavegia
Actually, our life experiences should be based on the guidance found in scripture and then we won't have misconceptions.
I like the way that sounds, and it's a good statement of principle, but I fear it's not that simple in practice. I doubt that it's possible to look at scripture and not see it in some way through the filter of our own culture and experience.
I think I should clarify - when I talk about being influenced by my experiences - I am not talking about thinking it's a good thing to be influenced to change or determine one's theology based on personal experience. I'm talking about how Scripture speaks to us. For instance - when I was a kid, we raised sheep for a few years. That experience totally changed how I saw Jesus as our Shepherd. No doctrine changed - but my experience brought Scripture to light in a different way than say my city neighbor down the street.
Also, someone who had no earthly father, will be touched by things differently than me who has a wonderful earthly father. One Scripture that to me is a neat Scripture, may be an amazing knock-out punch for the gal who never had a dad. This doesn't affect our theology but it does influence what we read and how we read Scripture. And I don't always see that as a bad thing.
Think about scientific discoveries. Certain discoveries have made us re-evaluate how we read Scripture - the earth being round, the earth revolving around the sun, disease pathogens and OT law, etc.
quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
I have read a ton of threads, though, and had my mind changed from what I thought at the beginning of the thread. But by keeping my mouth shut, I don't have to admit publicly that I was wrong. 
Yeah, I usually only post in threads that I feel like I sort-of kind-of know what I'm talking about. There are many threads that I honestly don't know or my opinion isn't that solid, so I generally don't post in them. I'd rather learn first, then embarrass myself...
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/9/2008 9:36:08 PM
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CoeurdeLeon
Posts: 9508
Joined: 9/4/2005
From: Inside my head
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
I think I should clarify - when I talk about being influenced by my experiences - I am not talking about thinking it's a good thing to be influenced to change or determine one's theology based on personal experience. I'm talking about how Scripture speaks to us. For instance - when I was a kid, we raised sheep for a few years. That experience totally changed how I saw Jesus as our Shepherd. No doctrine changed - but my experience brought Scripture to light in a different way than say my city neighbor down the street.
I also think that experience will expose an interpretation as false. When someone says what a Scripture means, I hold that meaning up to real life and as many scenarios as can think of. If that interpretation doesn't fit what I have actually seen and/or experienced then I know that it doesn't hold water or isn't an across-the-board truth.
_____________________________
This morning I was awakened by the sound of purple
colliding with the fragrance of laughter.
Eutychus
10.13.08
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/10/2008 12:00:13 AM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10531
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CoeurdeLeon
quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
I think I should clarify - when I talk about being influenced by my experiences - I am not talking about thinking it's a good thing to be influenced to change or determine one's theology based on personal experience. I'm talking about how Scripture speaks to us. For instance - when I was a kid, we raised sheep for a few years. That experience totally changed how I saw Jesus as our Shepherd. No doctrine changed - but my experience brought Scripture to light in a different way than say my city neighbor down the street.
I also think that experience will expose an interpretation as false. When someone says what a Scripture means, I hold that meaning up to real life and as many scenarios as can think of. If that interpretation doesn't fit what I have actually seen and/or experienced then I know that it doesn't hold water or isn't an across-the-board truth.
That's very true! Sometimes we elevate interpretation to the level of Scripture. Scripture is inerrant. Interpretation isn't.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "Reason for leaving last job: The owner gave new meaning to the word 'paranoia.' I prefer to elaborate privately."
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/10/2008 8:08:08 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
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Good thoughts, everyone. Most of my perceptions I have changed have been in threads I never post in, but lurk in and observe.
I have changed somewhat theologically, and a part of it is due to posts here that have pointed out obvious flaws. I see others from my old group defending my old theology to the point of slightly changing it in conversation to make it more defensible. THAT struck a huge chord with me.
Iron indeed sharpens iron, and I have learned much here.
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/10/2008 9:27:15 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1936
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I see others from my old group defending my old theology to the point of slightly changing it in conversation to make it more defensible. THAT struck a huge chord with me.
How so? What theological standpoints for you have changed? If I may ask without intrude into a private area for you. As i mentioned earlier, I had this experience. I was in the camp of love,love, love, all that mushy stuff. I was in a thread debating church discipline. In my job, ( I worked at a faith based shelter at the time), I watched this woman, claim Christ. She put on a very good show-for awhile. She decide to give her old lifestyle another go, left for a few days, took several women with her and finally returned. Upon her return, she wasn't willing to give up her life, but more than willing to take others with her to her old life-again and again. The love, love aspect harmed several of the women in the shelter. had the discipline been instituted from the get go, these other women might have been "protected" from the temptation. This mentality was repeated played out and the success rate of the shelter diminished into to O%. I saw first hand the need for discipline within the body. our Father disciplines us because He loves us.
Is this the kind of experience you are talking about?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
http://www.myspace.com/egaip
Come visit
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/10/2008 9:34:08 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
Joined: 2/25/2008
From: United States of America
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Without derailing this thread, it pertains to several issues, including eternal security, interpretations of the Old Testament, and the concept of what sin is. Several threads ongoing about these issues.
Also, taking non-salvation issues and making them salvation issues. My old church did that a lot, and I have found help here in that area.
_____________________________
I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: How much of your life experience influences your pe... - 7/11/2008 8:42:15 AM
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car2ner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: just north of Florida
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GroupW stated it so very well. We need to try to understand what the original intent of the scripture is and yet we can't help but flavor it with our own experiences.
I have to admit, that as I have gotten older, experiences help me understand things I just couldn't before. If we all go back and find old forum posts from bye-gone days, do we still want to be accountable for what we said then? I have a disclaimer, my opinion may have changed over the years... the intent of the scriptures, no... my opinion, yes.
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http://www.car2ner.2ya.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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