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I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 2:10:05 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 410
Joined: 6/21/2005
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http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/762224.html
http://www.agorafinancial.com/iousa.html
This is an attempt by Warren Buffett and Pete Peterson to bring the problem of the national debt (and the current account deficit) to the forefront of the U.S. Presidential debate.
I've written that I really wished that both Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama had a plan of some form to deal with what can only accurately be described as a ticking time bomb-and I say that because a LOT of people who are much smarter than me agree with my assessment of the current situation.
That said, does it concern you at all that we are merrily mortgaging off our future with no real hope for repayment? Where would you like to see this in the Election of 2008? Do you care? What level of sacrifice would you as an individual citizen be willing to make to ensure that the United States of America does not go bankrupt (a very real and growing possibility)?
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 2:12:55 PM
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huskarine
Posts: 444
Joined: 7/31/2008
From: Wheaton, IL
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hmmm...idunno...one can hope for minimal gov't spending then....making a personal sacrifice would hurt these days considering how our lifestyles are....
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"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 2:23:48 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/762224.html
http://www.agorafinancial.com/iousa.html
This is an attempt by Warren Buffett and Pete Peterson to bring the problem of the national debt (and the current account deficit) to the forefront of the U.S. Presidential debate.
I've written that I really wished that both Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama had a plan of some form to deal with what can only accurately be described as a ticking time bomb-and I say that because a LOT of people who are much smarter than me agree with my assessment of the current situation.
That said, does it concern you at all that we are merrily mortgaging off our future with no real hope for repayment? Where would you like to see this in the Election of 2008? Do you care? What level of sacrifice would you as an individual citizen be willing to make to ensure that the United States of America does not go bankrupt (a very real and growing possibility)?
Is this the same Warren Buffett that after he has made his gazillion dollars using favorable tax stradigies and now wants to raise and impose stronger and higher taxes on anyone else trying to get ahead?
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 3:46:00 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 410
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/762224.html
http://www.agorafinancial.com/iousa.html
This is an attempt by Warren Buffett and Pete Peterson to bring the problem of the national debt (and the current account deficit) to the forefront of the U.S. Presidential debate.
I've written that I really wished that both Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama had a plan of some form to deal with what can only accurately be described as a ticking time bomb-and I say that because a LOT of people who are much smarter than me agree with my assessment of the current situation.
That said, does it concern you at all that we are merrily mortgaging off our future with no real hope for repayment? Where would you like to see this in the Election of 2008? Do you care? What level of sacrifice would you as an individual citizen be willing to make to ensure that the United States of America does not go bankrupt (a very real and growing possibility)?
Is this the same Warren Buffett that after he has made his gazillion dollars using favorable tax stradigies and now wants to raise and impose stronger and higher taxes on anyone else trying to get ahead?
Thsnks
RC
Actually, as I recall Mr. Buffett's stance on taxes is to increase the burden on those most able to bear it-those who do as he did and make a lot of money and pay very few taxes. I believe I recently read an article where he was upset that his secretary paid more taxes than he did-and he advocated raising taxes for himself and others more able to bear the burden.
Here's an article on it all-check it out for yourself and see what you come away with;
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece
Back to the topic-do you happen to have an opinion about the national debt?
As far as personal sacrifice-I am more than anything referring to things such as curbs on entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare, etc. etc. as well as reigned in and responsible government spending. THAT'S the sacrifice that each individual citizen can make-to REQUIRE his or her government to be responsible and be willing to back that up by accepting responsible legislation-not looking for or demanding tax breaks on a government system which is unable to support their unreasonable requests-and justify that responsibility by CAREFULLY requiring it's representative government to give a full accounting of it's incomes and expenditures etc. etc.
Any opinions on that?
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 5:24:43 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5586
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
Actually, as I recall Mr. Buffett's stance on taxes is to increase the burden on those most able to bear it-those who do as he did and make a lot of money and pay very few taxes. I believe I recently read an article where he was upset that his secretary paid more taxes than he did-and he advocated raising taxes for himself and others more able to bear the burden.
If he had had to operate under the tax system he now purposes he would never made what he has made.
How nice of him to not want the rest of us to have the same opportunity as he did.
This "Tax 'em all till they bleed: plan of the demokrats will only bring the struggling ecomony we now endure to a complete collapse.
Anyone who thinks that B. Hussein Obama is not going to raise taxes on the working masses and the small business owners in America has just not read his tax plans or else they have totally sold out to drink the kool-Aid that is being offered.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 8:34:32 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1293
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: The Great Sioux Empire
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I think I might step on board a program with higher taxes if it were tied to REAL shrinkage in spending. I'm talking 10% reduction per year, the severe cutting of anything and everything that isn't necessary for proper and modern defense, and building roads, and the elimination of several departments and cabinet posts.
Incidentally, in spite of Buffets odious attachment to this, I believe Pete Peterson is on to something.
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Molon Labe
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/25/2008 8:54:43 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 1938
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
If he had had to operate under the tax system he now purposes he would never made what he has made.
Actually, he did have to operate under that tax system. Top-tier tax rates prior to the mid-80's were considerably higher than they are now. Capital gains rates have also historically been much higher than present.
Aside from that, considering how he spends his money, I doubt that wealth accumulation matters that much to him. He's actually got a very healthy - some could argue Christ-like - attitude towards money and possessions. He's lived in the same house for 50 years, that today is valued at $700K.
quote:
"I don't have a problem with guilt about money. The way I see it is that my money represents an enormous number of claim checks on society. It's like I have these little pieces of paper that I can turn into consumption. If I wanted to, I could hire 10,000 people to do nothing but paint my picture every day for the rest of my life. And the GNP would go up. But the utility of the product would be zilch, and I would be keeping those 10,000 people from doing AIDS research, or teaching, or nursing. I don't do that though. I don't use very many of those claim checks. There's nothing material I want very much. And I'm going to give virtually all of those claim checks to charity when my wife and I die. (Lowe 1997:165–166)
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: I.O.U.S.A - 8/26/2008 10:21:04 AM
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blue1914
Posts: 410
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter
I think I might step on board a program with higher taxes if it were tied to REAL shrinkage in spending. I'm talking 10% reduction per year, the severe cutting of anything and everything that isn't necessary for proper and modern defense, and building roads, and the elimination of several departments and cabinet posts.
Incidentally, in spite of Buffets odious attachment to this, I believe Pete Peterson is on to something.
I agree with you wholeheartedly-any increase in taxes MUST be used to dig us out of the present hole that we find ourselves in INSTEAD of being used to add on new programs, etc. etc. In fact, we need a cut in current programs as well as an increase in taxes to dig ourselves out of the present hole we find ourselves in.
I have nothing for or against Mr. Peterson or Mr. Buffett, but I do applaud them trying to use their money for something that will benefit us ALL (even if it would benefit them most of all if there is no need for them to divest their American holdings and spread that money abroad-which will be difficult to do since many international investment options are not nearly as lucrative as the bubbles created in the U.S. economy up to now). I have no illusions that either man is working from a truly altruistic state of motive-the disposition of the U.S. government has a significant impact on the bottom line for each of these men-but they appear to be some of the few out there willing to broach a very unpopular topic-one that few understand and fewer still are willing to work on.
The very activity on this thread shows that-several threads above this (at the time of writing) are debating the nuances of Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain's stances on "popular" topics of the day such as abortion, etc. etc. How valuable will that debate be when 50% or better of our country is mortgaged off to a country which has VERY definitive ideas on forced family planning? The puppet government that they set up would have very little power to prevent any manner of moral evil.
On the one hand I see this all as continuing evidence that the prophecy of the Word of God is playing out day by day on the world stage, but on the other hand I continue to marvel at how dense we as a people are in that we are happy to sit by and watch this happen-the solution is too much "work" and "sacrifice" on our part-backing and electing strong leaders who will tell us "NO" often enough to get us back on track.
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