|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/10/2008 4:11:39 AM
|
|
|
Rasul
Posts: 2
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Yesterday night I did some research on Lucifer (some call him Satan) and I was surprised at what I found. I have some questions.
Lucifer was an angel, the highest ranking of the angels of God. Lucifer loved and was totally devoted to God and God loved him.
Question 1. Was Lucifer a perfect being, an angel, before his fall?
Lucifer means the "light bringer" or the "morning star". An angel of great beauty.
Question 2. Would it be true to conclude the ideas that Lucifer is half beast and half man, a pan-like looking creature with cloven hooves and horns is just a myth created by the Catholic Church. In fact Lucifer retains his beauty as a former angel of heaven?
The problems between Lucifer and God arose when after God created man (Adam) he declared man his greatest creation. God ordered that all his angels bow down before man. Lucifer and many angels who as creatures of fire were very upset about having to bow down before man, a creature of clay.
Question 3. Look at all the people in our prisons, all the wars. Walk down your local town or city high street and see the sewage called humanity there. Look at Hitler, Saddam Hussein and Stalin. Why should angels have to bow down before mankind that produces this sort of rubbish?
Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled at the idea of having to bow down before man. There was a great war in heaven and Lucifer was defeated.
Question 4. Lucifer totally loved God but he and other angels were being asked to love something other than God. Lucifer felt that he could only totally love one source, that was God, there was not room for his love of God to include man. A third of the angels agreed with Lucifer. Was God not being unreasonable here to expect his angels to split their love for him to include man as well?
When Lucifer was defeated he and other angel rebels were cast down to earth from heaven. Religious sources indicate that Lucifer and the other fallen angels exist upon either earth or in the air.
Question 5. If the fallen angels exist on earth or in the air would it be correct to say that hell does not exist, a creation of the Catholic Church?
When Lucifer fell to earth it is understandable that he was not happy with mankind who was the cause of his fall. Lucifer does not seem to me to have acted unreasonably, nor does he come over as having done anything wrong.
Question 6. What exactly did Lucifer do wrong?
Question 7. Is Lucifer really evil?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/10/2008 12:45:25 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 11779
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
Where on earth did you get this stuff?
"Lucifer" does not occur in most translations, so right off the bat you have a problem.
Where do you get the idea that Satan only rebelled against God after the creation of man?
Where do you get that God required Satan to bow down before man?
Satan rebelled due to his pride--he thought he should be above God. I see no benefit to be gained from pleading his case.
Yes, he is evil. Do not let him delude you into thinking otherwise.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/10/2008 1:20:24 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 1621
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Satan opposes God and that is the end of the story, regardless of when and how the event took place. Satan will be dealt with as well as all of those who support him or said a different was...those who do not belong to Christ.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/10/2008 3:01:24 PM
|
|
|
Rasul
Posts: 2
Joined: 5/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Thanks for your answers.
My intial research into Lucifer indicated to me that he did not seem to be evil.
I turned to this site as being a source of expertise. Alas, I feel my questions remain unanswered.
I am going to now embark upon a full investigation and will then publish my full findings on the internet.
In the meantime, any further comments are most welcome and you can email me at:
rasul006 (at) yahoo . com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/12/2008 1:29:12 PM
|
|
|
In_Him_Grace
Posts: 40
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
|
In my opinion, the only information on Satan that we need is supplied for us in the Bible. There really isn't too much background on the pre-fall and fall of Satan, so I must conclude that God didn't deem it necessary for us to know all about it. We probably wouldn't understand it anyway. God tells us exactly what He wants us to know. Period. Any information you find that is not specifically written in the Word of God is pure speculation at best.
All we really need to know is that Satan is our enemy and an enemy of our Savior and Creator. Jesus said he was evil, didn't He? That's good enough for most of us.
Our focus of "study" should be on God, not Satan. It is dangerous to put that much time and thought into him. I don't know if you're a Christian, but if you are I suggest you "end" your research and turn your focus to where it needs to be. The enemy is a great deceiver, the best, and it sounds to me like you're being lured in the wrong direction.
Don't for one second sympathize with that wicked beast. He is pure evil.
In Him,
Misti
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/12/2008 4:40:46 PM
|
|
|
ta_mosquito
Posts: 10674
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: online
|
quote:
Lucifer was an angel, the highest ranking of the angels of God. Lucifer loved and was totally devoted to God and God loved him.
Question 1. Was Lucifer a perfect being, an angel, before his fall?
Yes... although I suppose it depends on your definition of "perfect."
quote:
Lucifer means the "light bringer" or the "morning star". An angel of great beauty.
Question 2. Would it be true to conclude the ideas that Lucifer is half beast and half man, a pan-like looking creature with cloven hooves and horns is just a myth created by the Catholic Church. In fact Lucifer retains his beauty as a former angel of heaven?
The imp in red pajamas is a false illustration of him, yes. Was that image created by the Catholics? I have no idea. Yes, Lucifer is beautiful.
quote:
The problems between Lucifer and God arose when after God created man (Adam) he declared man his greatest creation. God ordered that all his angels bow down before man. Lucifer and many angels who as creatures of fire were very upset about having to bow down before man, a creature of clay.
I don't see this in the Bible at all. The problems happened when Lucifer decided that he wanted to usurp God's authority and become like God himself.
quote:
Question 3. Look at all the people in our prisons, all the wars. Walk down your local town or city high street and see the sewage called humanity there. Look at Hitler, Saddam Hussein and Stalin. Why should angels have to bow down before mankind that produces this sort of rubbish?
Look at Adam before the fall. Sin has marred humanity, that's for sure.
quote:
Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled at the idea of having to bow down before man. There was a great war in heaven and Lucifer was defeated.
Correction: Lucifer and a third of the angels rebelled at the idea of having to bow down before man God. There was a great war in heaven and Lucifer was defeated.
quote:
Question 4. Lucifer totally loved God but he and other angels were being asked to love something other than God. Lucifer felt that he could only totally love one source, that was God, there was not room for his love of God to include man. A third of the angels agreed with Lucifer. Was God not being unreasonable here to expect his angels to split their love for him to include man as well?
Your premise is false. Lucifer didn't totally love God - he wanted to usurp God. God is GOD; angels are created beings made by God to obey God. Period.
quote:
When Lucifer was defeated he and other angel rebels were cast down to earth from heaven. Religious sources indicate that Lucifer and the other fallen angels exist upon either earth or in the air.
Question 5. If the fallen angels exist on earth or in the air would it be correct to say that hell does not exist, a creation of the Catholic Church?
No. The existence of hell is well-taught in Scripture.
quote:
When Lucifer fell to earth it is understandable that he was not happy with mankind who was the cause of his fall. Lucifer does not seem to me to have acted unreasonably, nor does he come over as having done anything wrong.
Question 6. What exactly did Lucifer do wrong?
He disobeyed God. He tried to rebel against God. He makes war with God's creation, trying to destroy all God has created.
quote:
Question 7. Is Lucifer really evil?
Absolutely.
_____________________________
Tricia
Beauty isn't in the eye of the beholder as much as beauty exists for those who have eyes to see it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? - 5/13/2008 9:42:32 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 4040
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where thawing pigeons reside...
Status: offline
|
Yes, according to the Bible he is.
And that is not circular reasoning when we have a plethora of evidence that points to the veracity of Scripture being what it claims to be - God's Word for all of mankind.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
