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Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/28/2008 10:45:01 PM
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favoredmomof4
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/28/2008
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My husband has been self-employed for eight years, and has done well. This year, however, has been the toughest we've faced financially. (He is in construction business.) We have taken out loans to keep business going, and have had to put personal expenses on credit cards off and on. This is on top of loans and CC debt we incurred over past years - but, things were manageable until this year. Now, our normal budget is bursting at the seams due to loan/CC payments.
The biggest issue is that I really want to get serious and stop using credit, and only buy if we have cash - unless it's an emergency. He seems to agree with me - but then will buy something on credit with a plan of paying it when he gets "that extra money from selling something or doing an extra job". This has worked at times, but, normally when the money comes in, we need it for essentials, and cannot put the full amount towards the debt.
He works really hard - and I hate to be like his "mom" telling him he can't buy something. I am a SAHM - I homeschool 3 out of 4 of our children, and handle the business & personal bookkeeping. I guess I just need advice on how to handle discussing this with him without him feeling like I'm treating him like a child. I do not want to usurp his authority - especially when he is the breadwinner. Side note - he never gets upset when I spend on credit. And I have made some stupid purchases over the past 6 months. It is just that he has more of that habit, and usually spends larger amounts.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/29/2008 11:20:09 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 430
Joined: 5/10/2005
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Sounds like the two of you have had a number of discussion about it, but the follow through isn't occurring. There's some lifestyle changes that need to be made, habits that need to be broken. Common, just need to find an approach that works for the two of you.
Might be the big picture is a tad overwhelming at this time, it is for a lot of the country. Maybe set some short term goals and approach it from there. Like add up all of your credit card and loan balances with the goal of reducing the total balance by "X" amount\percent by the end of the month (at this point, that would be the end of next month). By looking at the total balance, it might help give a clearer picture of your situtation.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/29/2008 12:02:08 PM
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BlueAdept
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Joined: 4/18/2005
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Have you written a budget out? A spending plan will show where the money is giong.
It sounds like you have several issues. One of them is possibly mixing business and personal expenses. Credit cards for business can make some sense, however it doesn't always.
I would say follow the steps. First write out a spending plan. Then talk about the plan. You both HAVE to agree that the plan is right. Within the plan you set aside money for blowing. (That means not already put into a catagory). Once you both agree then you follow the plan. You will need 3-6 months to adjust the plan. It will NOT be right the first time through.
Dave Ramsey talks about the 2 types of people, he calls them the "geek" and the "free spirit". Normally you have one person that is the numbers person, and the other that is the spender. You are not the mom, you are the wife. I am sure he wants to supprt you. You can set aside the rewards area, but make it part of the budget. If you don't have peace about your finances, you can try to help him understand that.
You can not "nag" him into agreement. You have to work together to get there. If he doesn't sign off (agree) it doesn't matter how great the plan is, he will not follow it and you will have problems.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/29/2008 2:58:22 PM
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favoredmomof4
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/28/2008
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Thank you both for your replies.
NoShow - I agree that habits need to be broken. Both on his part and mine. Goal setting is a key - but as BlueAdept said, we both need to agree upon the goals. We do know what our total debt is - and we have a free debt plan from Forward Financial which is affiliated with Faith Life Now ministries. They have some great resources. According to the debt plan, we can be debt free in less than five years (not including our home). However, we have to keep away from the plastic! My husband said that I can take his cards from him to remove temptation.
BlueAdept - we do have a budget as well, but we tend to go over - mostly on groceries (six people in family), and then as we've discussed - those credit card purchases for non-essential things. I definitely am the "geek" and my husband is the "free spirit". I have to say though, that he is not at all greedy, he is always willing to give and help others. His heart is in the right place - we just need to get our heads on the same page (so to speak). Budgeting for rewards is a great idea - I have never thought of that.
We also continue to pray that business stays consistent. I have applied for several part-time jobs (I have degree in education) to try to supplement and put more money towards savings and debt. As a side note, our credit is good, and we have never been delinquent on payments (more than a week or so anyway).
Again thanks for your input.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/29/2008 3:58:43 PM
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Auben
Posts: 1634
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Where pines tower and cranberries float
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One thing that's worked for me in the past is saying, 'hey, we have this problem. Here are the numbers. We really need to do something physical to help us both stay away from the credit card. Let's take both of them and put them in the safety deposit box/top drawer/whatever.'
I always tried to concentrate on how I was a part of the problem as well, but sometimes you just have to find a physical barrier to insure that you stick to the budget.
For the person doing the numbers it's easier to make a mental block. For the partner not involved in that they have to go by feeling. Unless psychic there are going to be problems.
Don't feel guilty for bringing him into the picture, just brain storm with him to find physical barriers to put on your spending (not 'hey, we need to spend less').
_____________________________
Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/30/2008 11:41:28 AM
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BlueAdept
Posts: 96
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favoredmomof4,
I can understand going over on the groceries. That is one of my areas that I struggle in.
Something that can help, is taking the groceries and putting them into a cash only system. I have 4-5 areas that are "cash only".
Groceries
Gas (for the cars)
Baby sitter
Eating Out - lunches and dinners as a family
Splurg (blow) - impulse purchases not other wise in the budget.
Others that are good to add
Entertianment - Movies, movie rentals, putt putt... etc
Hair cutting/salon treatment
Set aside X dollars for each area, when the cash is gone.... you either have to steal from another area or do without.
When I started doing that I set aside 330 every two weeks for all of my areas. Now with gas prices, and food prices going up and up again, I have to set aside 480. And like you I have a family of 6 - 4 kids 12-2.
I tend to do the shopping, partly because I like to. But also because if I don't we tend to not have fresh fruit and veggies around.
I watch for deals in the super market - chicken on sale, will buy 10-20 pounds and freeze it. Hamburger same thing. I watch for marked down clearance stuff, meat on clearance 40% off the normal price. In the past 10 years I can only think of 3 times I have had to throw something away (and that was because I didn't get around to cooking it when I should have.) If I don't think I can cook it within 2-3 days, I freeze it. At one point I was eating steak about 2-3 times a month, but I could hardly pass it up at $4.00 a pound.
It sounds like you have a great plan, and you just need some help to stay accountable on it. Find a local friend and enlist their help. As them to meet with you once a month to review how you are doing.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/31/2008 10:57:31 AM
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seagullplayer
Posts: 127
Joined: 9/18/2007
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Perhaps you need to talk to your husband about you getting a full time job and sending the kids to public school. If he is committed to you being a SAHM and home schooling, tell him what it will take on his end to keep the budget inline…
BTW: If you are continually going over budget on something (you mentioned groceries) perhaps you do not have a realistic budget number. The number of mouths you are feeding does not change? When we set a budget, we have to look at it and adjust it where needed, it is a “living document” until we get the bugs out.
_____________________________
The world has only one problem, sin.
There is only one solution, Jesus.
THE WAY.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/31/2008 11:16:26 AM
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peace77
Posts: 791
Joined: 4/18/2005
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Another thing to do is to set up and agree with your husband on a spending limit.
That is,the two of you agree not to spend more than $______ without discussing it with the other.
When funds are tight, the number might be small, perhaps $50. Later, when the budget can handle a little more flexibility, you could use $100 or $200 as the limit.
Emergencies such as car repairs needed to get home are exempt from the discussion.
***************
Look for more ways to bring in additional income.
Could you provide occasional daycare such as for a woman who needs to go to a doctor's appointment?
Could you provide afterschool care for an older child for a few hours?
Peace,
Anne
_____________________________
I GoodSearch for Deaf Missions.
Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet or shopping online with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 7/31/2008 5:06:19 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1084
Joined: 4/29/2005
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I also manage household money that my husband earns. It's a good lesson in stewardship. One of the problems we've had is the idea that me knowing what is going on with our money status & plans often made conversations seem like I was in charge of the money.
He'd say, "Can I get this?" mostly meaning 'is it possible' but it would seem like he was asking permission. Then I'd scramble to find the money for it, just to seem like I wasn't withholding his own money from him.
We solved it with silliness.
We have an employee, "Mr. Buggett." He controls our money. He's pretty stingy sometimes, but we think he has our best interests at heart. But, you see, he likes me best. He thinks I'm pretty. He does a better job of things if I'm the one that talks to him, especially if we really want some extra money. But if Mr. Buggett just says, "No" -- Well, I did my best to pressure him, and it's not my fault that we came up dry. If Mr. Buggett is grouchy that my husband or I didn't do what we told him we would stick to... Well, Mr. Buggett has a problem, and we need to find a way to make it up to him, but our marriage doesn't have a problem.
It just reminds us both that just because I noticed a problem and told my husband doesn't mean that I'm nagging or scolding. I'm just informing him of a difference between our joint intentions and his actions. What he does with that information is up to him.
A discussion might go,
<You> "I was talking with Mr Buggett today and he said that your spending on boating supplies means that our end-of-debt date is now January 2011 rather than November 2010. He mentioned that that will probably make our Christmas less merry that year. What are your thoughts?"
<Him> "I'm expecting some money to come in next week."
<You> "Well, Mr. Buggett had already counted on that money to pay off existing debt. If we use it to pay new debt instead, the existing debt doesn't get touched. That's why the existing debt is going to be with us longer now. And he reminded me that we'll be paying Ms. Visa $12 extra per $500 per additional month - so that's $24 for what happened with the boating supplies."
<Him> "Oh. What should we do about it?"
<You> "Well, we enjoyed the boat trip, and that's important as a family. Next time we're tempted, though, we should try to think about what Mr. Buggett would say, and how much this sort of thing costs us in the long term."
<Him> "Yeah."
<You> "Maybe you'll earn something above the usual jobs this year, and that will pull our out of debt date back from that holiday season. That happens sometimes. And, if not, we've spent a lot of Christmases in debt. One more isn't going to kill us. We'll start that new year free and clear."
<Him> "OK"
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 8/1/2008 10:39:06 AM
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favoredmomof4
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/28/2008
Status: offline
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Hi, everyone.
I'm so glad I posted, so many good ideas...
Tamara: I agree that there has to be more of a "we" attitude - doing things together, not me taking charge. I don't think he is as aware of the whole picture because I'm the one who sees it day in and day out, and he can distance himself from it. (Kind of denial - which I have been guilty of as well.)
BlueAdept: Setting aside cash for certain things is a great idea. Even though we use a debit card and $ comes directly out of checking, we still tend to spend more. My husband & I already talked about this, and need to determine a realistic figure for us.
Seagullplayer: I have considered full time work - but, timing is still not right as we have a 2 1/2 yo that we would need to have daycare for, something that is very expensive in our state. (That's the reason I started working only part time when we had our oldest 13 years ago.) We are not totally against public school either, but the schools in our town aren't the greatest - have almost lost their accreditation due to problems. And, the state we live in is very liberal - this translates to the public schools in a very real way. Parents have been arrested for taking their Kindergardeners out of school when being taught about alternative sexual lifestyles.
Regarding a realistic # for grocery $ - I agree as well. Something I thought of last night, we often do our shopping at a local Super Wal-Mart - so our "grocery" bill may include socks, lightbulbs, printer paper, etc. ... you get the point. When I shop at just a grocery store, I can stay within budget #. How do people qualify these things in budget, is there a "household item" category? I know we need a clothing amount...that's something I always ignore, not good!
Peace77: The spending limit is a great idea! Gives us both freedom within limits. I talked with husband about this as well. I thinks he's still digesting alot of what I'm telling him. But, he is in agreement that we need to cease using credit.
I have looked into aftercare/daycare. Unfortunately, in our state you need to have a home daycare license even if you watch just one child (that is not a relative) for $$. The thing that I have been pursuing now is tutoring, which I have done in the past. And, my 13 yo daughter and 11 yo son have taken all the neighborhood jobs: i.e. babysitting, watering lawns & plants, dog & cat-sitting, etc.
Hubby & I joke that if they keep it up, wel might just be able to retire early. Ha, Ha. Another neighbor just came over with a $20 and asked my daughter to cat sit, and water plants. Not bad!
pbaribeault: You hit the nail on the head. I don't want it to seem like I am withholding $ from him. I think your solution is extremely clever. With all due respect, though, my husband may think I've gone slightly crazy if I have an imaginary employee like "Mr. Buggett". Ha, Ha. He does have a sense of humor - but... 
Thanks again - I'm so blessed by these forums. Feel like I have new friends and family.
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 8/1/2008 11:39:53 AM
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BlueAdept
Posts: 96
Joined: 4/18/2005
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favoredmomof4,
There have been multiple studies done that show when you use a debit card or credit card that you will spend between 30-40% more. That is the main reason for switching to cash.
As for the clothing budget, as long as it is in the budget you can spend it. Most often what happens is it is an off budget item. So if you know you need to spend 20.00 on socks, underware and etc.... then either put that into its own cash folder or make it a different trip. (You know since you are at the Walmart, you are going to get the clothes. Just buy those put them in the car and head back in on your grocery shopping trip.)
The area that is hard is diapers, TP and etc... are they groceries or household? You know diapers at 19 per pack are really a budget killer. (We have a almost 3 year old we are working toward potty training, but it could be a long time for her.)
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RE: Need advice about discussing debt with spouse. - 8/1/2008 11:55:52 AM
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favoredmomof4
Posts: 23
Joined: 7/28/2008
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BlueAdept,
I hear you - our 2 1/2 year old daughter is potty training too. But, my older three didn't fully potty train until 3 yo. Diapers can be a budget-breaker.
I think we are living proof of that 30-40% more spending with debit/credit card! 
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