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Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy.." - 2/12/2010 7:49:25 AM
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_jjp_
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Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy.."quote:
In that case, the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts. U.S. Department of Justice lawyers say that "a customer's Fourth Amendment rights are not violated when the phone company reveals to the government its own records" that show where a mobile device placed and received calls.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 8:07:19 AM
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iluvatar
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Can't we just have one party's administrations take these sort of opinions - that would make it a lot easier to know who to not like.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 8:14:54 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Can't we just have one party's administrations take these sort of opinions - that would make it a lot easier to know who to not like.
-Dan.
more and more i find it difficult to tell these folks apart.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 9:16:04 AM
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_jjp_
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What no outrage? No calling Obama the destroyer of our freedoms? I mean i thought all of those out there calling for Bush's head over the same sentiments were doing it based on principal not on political affiliation.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 9:35:23 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
What no outrage? No calling Obama the destroyer of our freedoms? I mean i thought all of those out there calling for Bush's head over the same sentiments were doing it based on principal not on political affiliation.
i agree where is the outrage, the libs wanted to lynch Bush for tracing calls between known foriegn terrorist and those they contacted in the States.
Go figure.
I guess this technology will made it easier for Obama to send out his IRS stormtroopers with their newly acquired riot shotguns to gather your money.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 9:41:24 AM
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Tarox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
What no outrage? No calling Obama the destroyer of our freedoms? I mean i thought all of those out there calling for Bush's head over the same sentiments were doing it based on principal not on political affiliation.
i agree where is the outrage, the libs wanted to lynch Bush for tracing calls between known foriegn terrorist and those they contacted in the States.
Go figure.
I guess this technology will made it easier for Obama to send out his IRS stormtroopers with their newly acquired riot shotguns to gather your money.
Thanks
RC
I'm not happy about it. What I'm wondering about is why repubs are upset? I thought all of this was kosher (at least, thats what you all said under W). Maybe now you can see why this is a bad idea- sometimes it's your guy in the white house, and sometimes it's someone you just don't want to have that kind of info.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 9:43:51 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
I'm not happy about it. What I'm wondering about is why repubs are upset? I thought all of this was kosher (at least, thats what you all said under W). Maybe now you can see why this is a bad idea- sometimes it's your guy in the white house, and sometimes it's someone you just don't want to have that kind of info.
Once again, deflect.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 9:47:34 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
I'm not happy about it. What I'm wondering about is why repubs are upset? I thought all of this was kosher (at least, thats what you all said under W). Maybe now you can see why this is a bad idea- sometimes it's your guy in the white house, and sometimes it's someone you just don't want to have that kind of info.
I see it as a giant over reach of power (which seems to be the norm for this administration), to track you they will need not reason, no warrant, no possibility of a national secruity threat; just track you.
And I ask to what end?
Intercepting and tracking calls from known terrorist in a foriegn country to someone here in the States I get. Just mandating the ability to track John Q. Public is scary.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 10:15:25 AM
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essentialsaltes
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
What no outrage? No calling Obama the destroyer of our freedoms? I mean i thought all of those out there calling for Bush's head over the same sentiments were doing it based on principal not on political affiliation.
i agree where is the outrage, the libs wanted to lynch Bush for tracing calls between known foriegn terrorist and those they contacted in the States.
Those libs, ha! But we can thank our lucky stars that the conservative ACLU has been fighting against this ever since it got started under the Bush Administration.
Conservative groups like the ACLU warned everyone that the expansion of executive power under Bush would come back to haunt us when the Administration changed. It's hard for governments to give up power willingly. Unfortunately, libs kept defending Bush, talking about homeland security and saying 'they'll only track bad guys, so what's the problem?'
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 10:20:23 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
What no outrage? No calling Obama the destroyer of our freedoms? I mean i thought all of those out there calling for Bush's head over the same sentiments were doing it based on principal not on political affiliation.
i agree where is the outrage, the libs wanted to lynch Bush for tracing calls between known foriegn terrorist and those they contacted in the States.
Those libs, ha! But we can thank our lucky stars that the conservative ACLU has been fighting against this ever since it got started under the Bush Administration.
Conservative groups like the ACLU warned everyone that the expansion of executive power under Bush would come back to haunt us when the Administration changed. It's hard for governments to give up power willingly. Unfortunately, libs kept defending Bush, talking about homeland security and saying 'they'll only track bad guys, so what's the problem?'
This is not to discuss what Bush did, we all know what he did. This to discuss OBAMA'S opinion that we have no reasonable expectation to privacy.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 10:41:52 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
This is not to discuss what Bush did, we all know what he did. This to discuss OBAMA'S opinion that we have no reasonable expectation to privacy.
Oh forgive me kind sir, I meant no disrespect in my post.
I would expect nothing less of Obama, he has been full throttle eroding the rights of the citizenry since the get go. This is just one more step in the journey to total government control.
And by the way _jjp_, have you had your coffee this morning 
Thanks
RC
My post was directed at Essentialsaltes
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 10:54:17 AM
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stellaluna
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It's actually true. Back in my news days we listened to all kinds of phone conversations on our scanners. Quite a few people out there doing things they shouldn't have been doing. And yeah, if you use a cell phone you're basically lojacked.
Just because people don't know they can be followed and listened to, doesn't mean they can't. And you don't even have to try.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 10:59:13 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
It's actually true. Back in my news days we listened to all kinds of phone conversations on our scanners. Quite a few people out there doing things they shouldn't have been doing. And yeah, if you use a cell phone you're basically lojacked.
Just because people don't know they can be followed and listened to, doesn't mean they can't. And you don't even have to try.
That doesn't mean that the government can just take records and find you without a warrant.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 11:25:33 AM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
I see it as a giant over reach of power (which seems to be the norm for this administration), to track you they will need not reason, no warrant, no possibility of a national security threat; just track you.
Big government/less personal rights is trait of the liberal democrat party. The fact that some republicans recently have also supported bigger government and less personal rights is a sad fact--the result of republicans going center to try and appeal to the "big tent". If people are upset over the republicans who support bigger government, and as a result of their anger vote for the democrat candidate, they are going the wrong direction. Democrats love bigger government and less personal rights much more so than even centrist republicans.
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Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 12:01:36 PM
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JustaFan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
Conservative groups like the ACLU warned everyone that the expansion of executive power under Bush would come back to haunt us when the Administration changed. It's hard for governments to give up power willingly. Unfortunately, libs kept defending Bush, talking about homeland security and saying 'they'll only track bad guys, so what's the problem?'
Were you being facetious when you called the ACLU a conservative group? I think they are anything but. They are pro abortion, pro decriminalizing marijauna and cocaine, anti prayer in school, etc. I'd say the ACLU lawsuit is the liberal outrage RC is looking for.
My personal opinion is that the government shouldn't be allowed to see your cell phone records without a warrant. HOWEVER, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, and thus don't know what the law says on this issue.
For myself, they can look at my records to their heart's content. They'll be pretty bored by what they see. LOL
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Judith
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 12:03:30 PM
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essentialsaltes
Posts: 262
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From: Inglewood, CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
This is not to discuss what Bush did, we all know what he did. This to discuss OBAMA'S opinion that we have no reasonable expectation to privacy.
As far as I know, Obama has expressed no opinion on the matter. However, lawyers for the US Department of Justice are certainly fighting to keep these powers.
_____________________________
"My object in all arguments is not to make any preconceived opinion of mine seem right, but merely to discover and establish the truth, whatever the truth may be."
-- HP Lovecraft, letter to Robert E. Howard 7/27-28/34
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 12:06:31 PM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: essentialsaltes
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
This is not to discuss what Bush did, we all know what he did. This to discuss OBAMA'S opinion that we have no reasonable expectation to privacy.
As far as I know, Obama has expressed no opinion on the matter. However, lawyers for the US Department of Justice are certainly fighting to keep these powers.
quote:
the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts
From the posted article
the Obama administration has argued that warrantless tracking is permitted because Americans enjoy no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in their--or at least their cell phones'--whereabouts
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 2:26:06 PM
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GodandGuns
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mind explaining when aclu became conservative? i hope that was sarcasm. those people are liberal to the core
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FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
The Medic, the unsung hero on every battlefield. It is impossible to imagine the mental/emotional trauma inside a Medic, and there is no triage for that.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 3:33:35 PM
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cog41
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quote:
Conservative groups like the ACLU warned everyone that the expansion of executive power under Bush would come back to haunt us when the Administration changed. It's hard for governments to give up power willingly.
The founding fathers warned us govt. power.
Your word "willingly" is almost prophetic. Is it time for pitch forks and torches?
I agree with Jefferson, "question everything".
Keep yur powder dry, and keep it hid.
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Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 4:11:26 PM
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Tarox
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Look, I don't support Obama doing this.
It simply is not deflecting if I mention who the policy started under.
On this issue, I think Bush was guilty. I thought he was violating the Constitution.
If Obama is doing the same thing, then he's guilty, and is violating the Constitution.
Does that really sound like deflecting? If so, maybe it's time to take out the partisan ear plugs. Because I think this is one area where the average Republican and the average democrat, and the average tea party person, will agree: The government should not be listening to our phone conversations without warrants, and those warrants should have some basis in reality. No wiretapping should ever be allowed for political reasons.
What I was getting at in my earlier post, which is a little more partisan of me, is that when Bush was wiretapping, mainstream republican media (and various republicans that I knew at the time) thought to oppose the policy of wiretapping without warrants was to oppose national security.
Honestly, this would be like a Republican winning the next presidential election, passing a health care bill with exorbitant spending, and then all the libs coming to the conservatives and saying "we shouldn't be spending this much! We should be lowering taxes and privatizing these services!"
That said, US citizens do have a right to privacy, and the Federal government should respect that. Shame on Obama for either 1) causing this policy to continue or 2) refusing to stop this policy.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 4:23:33 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tarox
On this issue, I think Bush was guilty. I thought he was violating the Constitution.
If Obama is doing the same thing, then he's guilty, and is violating the Constitution.
That sums up my opinion.
One other worry is that we currently have a supreme court that can't necessarily be relied upon to limit the executive branch here. I find it all quite worrisome.
There you have it. An Obama supporting quasi-liberal who shares your concerns here and is expressing my official disapproval.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 6:19:06 PM
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Marcus.
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Sorry, but this is a double standard unless the only thing that determines good and evil in some eyes is who is doing these things. If that is the case, then I say they have no soul.
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4000 years ago or so God signed a blood oath with Abraham. 2000 years ago Jesus fulfilled that oath. We are freed by a violent grace. Only One with a great love for those who He knew to be guilty would accept their fate Himself.
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RE: Obama "no resonable expectation of privacy..&q... - 2/12/2010 7:01:05 PM
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Tarox
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Marcus.
Sorry, but this is a double standard unless the only thing that determines good and evil in some eyes is who is doing these things. If that is the case, then I say they have no soul.
Who is applying a double standard? I haven't seen anyone condone this policy for Obama.
Just saying, you should be specific when declaring that people "have no soul"
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