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Repentance - 4/14/2008 8:09:55 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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The Lord Jesus Christ preached the necesscity of repentance when He was here with us and He stresses it again in Revelation.
John the Baptist preached repentance.
It was preached by the early church.
1. Why is repentance not stressed more in the Pauline Epistles? Is it because the Pauline Epistles are addressed to the churches where it is assumed that they have repented?
2. What is God's part in repentance and ours? These verses seem to stress God's part. Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance. And...Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
But then here the emphasis is on man: Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were ****ed in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent
And, in the messages to the churches in Revelation, over and over the Lord tells them the need to repent.
3. Finallly, since repentance is a necessary part of salvation, I wonder if much of the western church today is deceived because there is so little preaching against sin. Because, if one does not feel sin is that big of a deal, then there is obviously no need to repent....And if no repentance, no salvation...
Could it be a hugh deception going on in the western church in these days?
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: Repentance - 4/14/2008 9:14:16 PM
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abu_khomar
Posts: 102
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quote:
CHANNELS
One reason paul may not have expressed it as much as Christ and the apostles did in acts is maybe because the epistles were written to people who had already repented, like you mentioned above.
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RE: Repentance - 4/15/2008 12:44:37 AM
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Ezra
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Repentance is taught both in the OT and the NT, and it is extremely significant that when Christ began His ministry and began to preach the Gospel, the first words from His lips were "REPENT, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand" (Mt. 5:17). This is precisely what John the Baptizer had been preaching, and this is exactly what Peter preached on the Day of Pentecost and thereafter.
However, it would be a mistake to think that Paul omitted repentance from the preaching of the Gospel. Here is what he states in Acts 20:17-38, in his message to the Ephesian elders:
"I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have showed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house, TESTIFYING BOTH TO THE JEWS AND TO THE GREEKS, REPENTANCE TOWARD GOD, AND FAITH TOWARD OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."
This teaches us that the true Gospel does not introduce a false dichotomy between faith and repentance. They are two sides of the same coin. If you believe that Christ died for your sins, then you must turn from your sins as and while you turn to the Savior. Modern evangelicalism has conveniently ignored repentance to the detriment of all concerned.
But the book of Revelation teaches us that repentance is as necessary for sinning saints as it is for sinning sinners. That the saints can and do sin is clear from Scripture. Abraham sinned after he was saved, and so did Peter. To presume that we are better than them is simply foolish.
When Christ says "I have somewhat against thee" it means that we have been weighed in His balances and found wanting -- we have spiritual deficiences. Therefore, in Christ's messages to the seven churches, the word "repent" occurs again and again, and He finally says "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore and repent" (Rev. 3:19).
By and large Christian churches in North America need to repent today. But the message of repentance is not being preached. Why? You may be right. "It is a huge deception" similar to that of the church of the Laodiceans.
< Message edited by Ezra -- 4/15/2008 12:52:34 AM >
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Repentance - 4/15/2008 9:26:05 AM
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URForgiven
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Christian repentance IS the salvation experience. This IS the experience of all who have accepted Christ. They have changed from unbelievers to Believers.
Repentance Metanoeo, meaning to change one's mind and purpose, as the result of after knowledge. A change of mind and purpose and life, to which remission of sin is promised.
< Message edited by URForgiven -- 4/15/2008 1:37:31 PM >
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Repentance - 4/15/2008 6:48:10 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
By and large Christian churches in North America need to repent today. But the message of repentance is not being preached. Why? You may be right. "It is a huge deception" similar to that of the church of the Laodiceans.
We are SELF satisfied. The big "I" of pride looms large.
Those of us who teach and live in repentance are mocked by the 'church'. Yes, it is a sad day but God will have His way. Amen.
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RE: Repentance - 4/15/2008 8:13:06 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
However, it would be a mistake to think that Paul omitted repentance from the preaching of the Gospel. Here is what he states in Acts 20:17-38, in his message to the Ephesian elders:
In my OP, I do believe I posted that Paul did not teach repentance in the Pauline Epistles, not that he omitted preaching repentance in the preaching of the Gospel. I know he preached it in Acts....
Yes, I know Christ's message to the seven churches, over and over is "repent".
In Psalm 51, David says ~against Thee, Thee only, have I sinned and done this evil in thy sight~
And in Romans Paul says: Rom 4:25 ~Who was delivered for our offences~. The past few days I have been personalizing it - Who was delievered for my offensives.
To offend God....How lightly I take it! But it is a horrible thing! Because Jesus was delivered, tortured, crucified and died for my offenses....
To sin against God...How lightly I take it! God died because I sinned against Him! My sins nailed Him to the Cross...
These are some of the things I have been meditating on the past week....
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: Repentance - 4/16/2008 9:51:48 AM
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timf
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Repentance
μετανοιαν noun - accusative singular feminine
metanoia met-an'-oy-ah: (subjectively) compunction (for guilt, including reformation); by implication, reversal (of (another's) decision) -- repentance.
Metanoia (from the Greek μετάνοια, metanoia, changing one's mind, repentance) is a word which has a few different meanings in different contexts.
Metanoia in the context of theological discussion, where it is used often, is usually interpreted to mean repentance. However, some people argue that the word should be interpreted more literally to denote changing one's mind, in the sense of embracing thoughts beyond its present limitations or thought patterns (an interpretation which is compatible with the denotative meaning of repentance but replaces its negative connotation with a positive one, focusing on the superior state being approached rather than the inferior prior state being departed from.)
In the context of rhetoric, metanoia is a rhetorical device used to retract a statement just made, and then state it in a better way. [1] As such, metanoia is similar to correctio. - Wikipedia
Turning now to the OT it will be found that the Hebrew word NACHAM appears in the AV as "repent" over forty times, yet there are as many as sixty places where it appears as "comfort", and both are valid translations. So how can this one word embody such a diversity of meaning ? It is because it carries a broad basic meaning which calls for the context to narrow it down to a precise sense. The following is submitted as the general definition of the verb NACHAM ; To become re-adjusted in one's feelings. According to its particular context NACHAM can more closely come within one of these three specific definitions :
(a) to seek by means of the emotions a changed attitude in another;
(b) to have one's feelings changed as to a purpose left unchanged;
(c) to discard a mental/emotional attitude and adopt a new one, thus to have a change of heart.
- M.S.Lloyd. Glasgow .October 1992
That repent means change is fairly clear. However, it can be asked is the change a cause or an effect. For example, our change might be the result of our regeneration and not the cause of it.
Some confusion may result from the English word "believe". Many people believe that a historical Jesus existed and think that this belief is the same as faith. The Pharisees came to see John the Baptist and he told them that their profession of holiness could be proven by "acts of repentence". A "changed" person shoul act consistent with that change.
John told the Pharisees that they needed to be changed. Jesus told Nicodemus that he needed to be born again. Peter told those gathered at Pentecost that they should be changed and baptized.
A discussion of if we change our mind or God changes it might open the Calvin / Arminian debate. I think that debate might be saved for the one stop thread. It may be more edifying to consider "how much change". Not how much change to be saved, but how much change is achievable.
There are powerful testimonies of how someone steeped in sin becomes saved and, like Paul on the road to Damascus, find their lives completely changed. More common are people who come to salvation and yet still find themselves entangled with the world. Those who never find full freedom in Christ often live their lives as if they really can't trust the promises of God. These people are often harranged as being unsaved, or not trying hard enough. Often their own churches are responsible for binding them in a state of carnality.
Paul tells us in Ephesians of the desire that Christians grow into the "full measure of Christ". Since this does not often happen at salvation, we can assume that the Christian life should in some part have provision for accomodating this type of change or one could say "repentance".
Steeling ourselves to try harder, repent more, or be better may indulge the flesh that quenches the Spirit. Deeper fuller change may be the result of deeper and fuller faith. The more we let go of the world and the flesh, the more we embrace and trust our Lord, the more we may find His Spirit at work in us.
James 4:3-10
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
We don't need to psyche ourselves up by feeling extra bad about our sin (fleshly repentance), we need the real change that comes from the work of the Holy Spirit in a heart that has surrendered to the Lord. Humility and truth can lead us to acknowledge our sin and see it honestly. However, there is a point where "beating ourselves up over sin becomes a type of flagellism that elevates the flesh and actually prevents the type of change we need.
Christianity today might be better served, not by an increase in condemnation for sin, but an instruction in how to grow into the full measure of Christ. Sin is not conquered through the sand blasting of self-loathing, but sin fades away in a heart that is constantly trusting in its Savior.
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RE: Repentance - 4/16/2008 12:34:39 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Christianity today might be better served, not by an increase in condemnation for sin, but an instruction in how to grow into the full measure of Christ. Sin is not conquered through the sand blasting of self-loathing, but sin fades away in a heart that is constantly trusting in its Savior. AMEN, timf! But even more than instruction, we need the application of sanctifying grace in Believers' lives. God says we can all have victory over sin right here and right now. Do we believe Him or not? If so, then let's live like it - by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Repentance - 4/16/2008 12:59:20 PM
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Bluethread
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The majority of the epistles are all about repentance, that is recognition of unacceptable behavior, restitution to those harmed and reformation of ones halacha(lifestlye). If we are simply talking about repentance unto salvation, that is what the first five chapters of Hebrews is about. In chapter six the author tells us that once we understand this we should move on to our relationship with Yeshua and our fellow man.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Repentance - 4/16/2008 1:09:22 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2576
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quote:
ORIGINAL: timf
Some confusion may result from the English word "believe". Many people believe that a historical Jesus existed and think that this belief is the same as faith. The Pharisees came to see John the Baptist and he told them that their profession of holiness could be proven by "acts of repentence". A "changed" person shoul act consistent with that change.
I agree...If one is truly saved, there should be some indications of a repentant heart, even tho they may struggle in some areas still.
A discussion of if we change our mind or God changes it might open the Calvin / Arminian debate. I think that debate might be saved for the one stop thread. It may be more edifying to consider "how much change". Not how much change to be saved, but how much change is achievable.
Agreed again. I thought of that after I posted - the Calvin/Arminian debate issue. I think it would be wonderful to consider how much change is achievable. I believe the more we are changed into the likeness of Christ, and all that entails, the more He will be glorified. ~Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bare much fruit~. This could be fruits of righteousness or fruits of Christlikeness.
There are powerful testimonies of how someone steeped in sin becomes saved and, like Paul on the road to Damascus, find their lives completely changed. More common are people who come to salvation and yet still find themselves entangled with the world. Those who never find full freedom in Christ often live their lives as if they really can't trust the promises of God. These people are often harranged as being unsaved, or not trying hard enough. Often their own churches are responsible for binding them in a state of carnality.
I think most Christians never find full freedom in Christ. And they often do have trouble trusting the promises of God and the Promiser - God, Himself. In my own life, if I could point out one thing that has made the difference and continues to make the difference (amongst many) is the issue of can God be trusted? Is He faithful? Is He still faithful when every part of my little world is crumbling? Every time, He has proven to me He is faithful, faithful, faithful God!
Paul tells us in Ephesians of the desire that Christians grow into the "full measure of Christ". Since this does not often happen at salvation, we can assume that the Christian life should in some part have provision for accomodating this type of change or one could say "repentance".
An ongoing attitude of repentance, perhaps. Or, initial repentance, with a life of confession when overtaken in sin and perhaps "crisis of repentance" periodically (My own term  ) with deep soul searching and change, would perhaps describe my personal journey. Following that, much greater fruit-bearing, if done God's way.
Steeling ourselves to try harder, repent more, or be better may indulge the flesh that quenches the Spirit. Deeper fuller change may be the result of deeper and fuller faith. The more we let go of the world and the flesh, the more we embrace and trust our Lord, the more we may find His Spirit at work in us.
Amen! Been there/done that, both - gratefully doing more of the latter more now!
James 4:3-10
Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
Humility is a dire need in the Christian journey of repentance. If we are not willing to humble ourselves, God certainly knows how to humble us!  But we need not even fear that. For if we submit to the humbling and not fight it, there is, indeed great grace to be poured out upon us!
We don't need to psyche ourselves up by feeling extra bad about our sin (fleshly repentance), we need the real change that comes from the work of the Holy Spirit in a heart that has surrendered to the Lord. Humility and truth can lead us to acknowledge our sin and see it honestly. However, there is a point where "beating ourselves up over sin becomes a type of flagellism that elevates the flesh and actually prevents the type of change we need.
Christianity today might be better served, not by an increase in condemnation for sin, but an instruction in how to grow into the full measure of Christ. Sin is not conquered through the sand blasting of self-loathing, but sin fades away in a heart that is constantly trusting in its Savior.
Amen! Thank you so much for sharing the wisdom the Lord has given you in this area! Bless you!
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: Repentance - 4/16/2008 1:17:07 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2576
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
AMEN, timf! But even more than instruction, we need the application of sanctifying grace in Believers' lives. God says we can all have victory over sin right here and right now. Do we believe Him or not? If so, then let's live like it - by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit.
That sounds like a wonderful topic for a thread  How do we apply His grace as we yield to a life of holiness?
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: Repentance - 4/16/2008 1:19:24 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
The majority of the epistles are all about repentance, that is recognition of unacceptable behavior, restitution to those harmed and reformation of ones halacha(lifestlye).
Now that you put it that way, I see that is true even tho the word "repentance" might not be mentioned....Thanks!
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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