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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 3:29:56 AM
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SonInMe1
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I believe we will be judged as saved people. Not for salvation, because as saved people that has been assured by Jesus, but for our good works so we will recieve our treasures in heaven and our leadership roles.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 7:34:09 AM
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called2valor
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Romans 14: 10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,
"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God."
12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
======
Things to notice:
a) It is written to believers
b) we give an account to God
We aren't to judge others... it is implied we are to judge ourselves (and Scripture states this elsewhere).
When we see God we are already redeemed. Here it says we will give an account of "ourself". It seems to be we will give an account for all of our thoughts and actions. Matthew 12:36 says: "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
Since even redeemed people do this, whether it is for our own understand or for rewards or both or even more, I personally cannot say with certainty... but I think reviewing our lives once with God would be a pretty logical thing to have happen.. even for the saved. We would certainly learn a lot.
peace
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I am the Mayan king Great Jaguar Platypus Bite-Bite!!! Fear me!!! *swims around menacingly*
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 9:04:53 AM
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rcjames
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(2Co 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Paul was writing to the Saints in Corinth and included himself; yes, we will all be judged.
And there is another verse that folks don't like to consider, but is Scripture all the same;
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Paul was also writing this to Believers and included himself.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 10:51:53 AM
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glimmerinthedark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I believe we will be judged as saved people. Not for salvation, because as saved people that has been assured by Jesus, but for our good works so we will recieve our treasures in heaven and our leadership roles.
I agree with your opinion. However, according to the scripture rc quoted,
(2Co 5:10) "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad", says something a little different. Will we be punished for the "bad" things, or will our reward be lessened?
Either way, meeting Jesus, and being where he is also is going to be a HUGE reward itself. So my main focus is my relationship with God. I want delight, seek, love, and desire God, more than my reward. Though I do like to have my own little fantasies of how heaven will be like. Even though, "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love Him." 
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 11:31:31 AM
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mvic
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There is no such thing as a passport with the word "Saved" stamped on it guaranteeing entry to Heaven. We may call ourselves "saved" and followers of Jesus or whatever but at the end of the day I believe we will be judged by our actions. Christ knew that many following Him pretended to hear His words and said they believed in Him; but several times in His teachings and parables He points out that our deeds is what matters. See for example His parable about the rich man and poor Lazarus at his gate.
We may pray everyday day and go to Church regulalry but in our private lives we may not care about those less fortunate than ourselves and behave dishonestly. Would such behaviour make us "saved"?
I think not.
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http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 3:10:08 PM
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etnlyHis
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i believe that trusting in Jesus as our God and Savior is in fact a "passport" to salvation and that when we truly believe, our deeds reflect our love for Him. the judgement for believers is in two parts.
part one is where Jesus' sacrifice pays our debt for sin. we escape the eternal damnation that our sins deserve;
part two is where our deeds determine our inheritance in heaven, our 'crowns' or our rewards, whatever that will look like.
(see 1 corinthians 3: 15)
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 3:28:41 PM
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zarazara
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I think we will be judged by our actions and the choices we make. Even though we may be saved by grace, we still have the right to choose the things we do and i think our choices is what will untimately count at the last day. If you're saved but you lie occassionally or are saved but don't see anything wrong in sleeping around. Being saved is not enough I think our actions count too.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/13/2008 8:57:31 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad", says something a little different.
If you take that verse alone and not anything else said in the bible then I would agree. However there is more on this subject biblically. The question is...where does the good we do come from as saved people? The answer is in Ephesians 2:8-10
quote:
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
2:9
not by works, so that no one can boast.
2:10
For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
If good came from us then we should be judged on the good we do. Good comes from God, planned by God. Will God judge Himself?
I don't think so.
I am not saying we have no role and we sit around waiting for God to act. I am saying without God we can do no good and all the glory for our good works goes to God. Our love for God comes from God. Our obediance to God through that love comes from God. Our gifts and abilities to accomplish His good comes from God.
When we die to self Christ lives in us. No doubt. This manifests itself in good works. In other words we become slaves to God. Its not our will anymore its His and we canoot die to self without God there to help us.
Our will only can get in the way. Our free will will only lead us to to bad things...or through ommission not to do good things. Who helps us to accomplish this death to self? You guessed it.
All those church ministries people do? Its usually in front of men. I won't say that disqualifies them as good being done because much of ministry is good. I will say, many do good without the recognition a public ministry brings. There is so much more to a christians life than ushering and cleaning the church.
In other words, good works can also be defined as loving your neighbor.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 7:35:03 AM
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timf
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John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 7:59:20 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
....Would such behaviour make us "saved"?
I think not.
There is no kind of our own behavior that makes us saved - that is precisesly why Jesus left His home in glory, took on the flesh, and endured the shame of the cross because none of us could be righteous enough to deserve heaven. If anyone is trusting in any kind of behavior to qualify them for eternal life, they will be sorely disappointed.
As RC pointed out, the redeemed will be judged for our faithfulness and stewardship, but not for entrance into heaven. That was obtained by the only One who was worthy to do it, Jesus Christ.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 8:01:15 AM
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JimboFletch
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Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
-John 6:29
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 8:25:00 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
....Would such behaviour make us "saved"?
I think not.
There is no kind of our own behavior that makes us saved - that is precisesly why Jesus left His home in glory, took on the flesh, and endured the shame of the cross because none of us could be righteous enough to deserve heaven. If anyone is trusting in any kind of behavior to qualify them for eternal life, they will be sorely disappointed.
As RC pointed out, the redeemed will be judged for our faithfulness and stewardship, but not for entrance into heaven. That was obtained by the only One who was worthy to do it, Jesus Christ.
A resounding amen!
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 9:20:37 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark
Please excuse my ignorance, but I have heard that some believe that everyone will be judged according to their works. Does this apply to the ones that are saved through Jesus? If it does, then I guess the whole "we are saved by Christ, not by our works" things isn't true, according to what they're saying.  Please enlighten me.  
2 Corinthians 5
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
You can stand before the Judge and He will look in the Book of Life; if your name is there, it's smooth sailing! As for works, are they good or bad? If your name is in the Book of Life, they're good. If you never came to Christ, they're bad. You see, those outside of Christ, can't do the will of God. No matter how much they did, it wasn't for the glory of God.
John 6
28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
1 Corinthians 15
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Romans 4
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Ezekiel 36
7 I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
1 Corinthians 4
7For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
Romans 4
2For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Our works don't save us; if we are saved, they are good works:
2 Timothy 1
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and Grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Colossians 3
24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Luke 17
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
God gives every Christian eternal life. That is our reward because He made us joint-heirs with Christ when He saved us. But our works don't earn us a special place in heaven. We have a place in heaven because God was merciful to us.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 11:45:52 AM
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TJStarfire
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quote:
glimmerinthedark Please enlighten me
There is no love for Christ without works. 
John 14:23,24 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 2:17:43 PM
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Doghouse
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There are verbatim quotes in 1 Peter for example, as well as Romans, that tells us we will be judged by our works.
So what does that mean? I believe it means one thing, and I am willing to concede another interpretation, but both result in "no works" equating to "no Salvation". What I believe is that our conversion to Christianity requires of us charity - to love one another. I am willing to concede that this charity is the result of "saved" or a sign of it, and not neccessarily its reason or - dare I say - cause (although I do believe that strong works support and nourish a weak faith, just like a strong faith supports and nourishes weak works). As to the result of "judged", or "judged for what" - see this thread.
I also acknowledge a sect out there within Christianity that abandons a responsibility or requirement of the faithful to examine themselves in the absence of charity to understand why, or to remedy that state. "Word of Faith" and "Prosperity Gospel" discard charity and teach against it as the dreaded "works", because if your Gospel tells you that all you are to do is accumulate material wealth, you have nothing to spare for those less fortunate in that pursuit.
I have a personal belief and opinion that some Calvinist-based faith versions abandon not only charity, but compassion as well, in that the reprobate are what they are, and the elect are what they are, and the act of charity is not going to change anything one iota. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
As far as the "relative heaven" spoken of in this thread, I don't believe that either. An eternal presence in the love of an infinite God is infinitely great. There is no math to "partial" out God (some get better seats than others...???).
This can lead one to an understanding of purgatory, as alluded to above - eternal presence with a "preparatory" phase that IS relative to the just judgment of God, and does not subject God's heaven to some sort of relativism, nor condemns one to an eternal presence without God - the model of which is described by Paul in 1 Cor 3.
_____________________________
John 14 - "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works themselves...whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father."
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/14/2008 4:09:05 PM
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thepriceizrite
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
There is no such thing as a passport with the word "Saved" stamped on it guaranteeing entry to Heaven. We may call ourselves "saved" and followers of Jesus or whatever but at the end of the day I believe we will be judged by our actions. Christ knew that many following Him pretended to hear His words and said they believed in Him; but several times in His teachings and parables He points out that our deeds is what matters. See for example His parable about the rich man and poor Lazarus at his gate.
We may pray everyday day and go to Church regulalry but in our private lives we may not care about those less fortunate than ourselves and behave dishonestly. Would such behaviour make us "saved"?
I think not.
I know this has already been discussed some by previous posters, but I'd just like to add to it...
Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and fall short of God's glory."
If we were saved on the basis of our works, we would all be condemned to hell. It is only by the sacrifice of Christ that we are saved, and nothing a believer does can change that.
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." (emphasis mine)
Salvation is a free gift. It was given to us freely, not by anything we did, but by God's grace. In 1 John 4:19 it says, "We love him because he loved us first."
John 5:24: "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes in him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." Eternal life is not dependent on works but on faith.
John 6:28-29: "Then they said to him [Jesus], 'What must we do, to be doing the works of God?' Jesus answered them, 'This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 4/15/2008 1:25:25 AM
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faithfulservant1
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We will all be judged. Someday, you will appear before God to give an account of your life. We are going to be judged for our actions, thoughts, and words. However, if you are living with God through Jesus Christ, then you may have confidence on the day of your judgement.
"But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment." (Matthew 12:36)
"By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment" (1 John 4:17)
< Message edited by faithfulservant1 -- 4/15/2008 4:47:34 AM >
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 5/9/2008 12:22:08 PM
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mindmatters
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revelation 20 shows us that there are 2 resurrections. the first is the church, born again believers, the second is everybody else after the 1000 year reign. the second resurrection says the dead are judged according to their works. after the church is gathered together for the 1000 years here on earth, is when we are rewarded according to our, born again beleivers, works.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 5/13/2008 10:29:27 PM
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doer
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the "bema seat"
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
2Co 5:9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ;
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
1Co 3:11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
1Co 3:13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 5/13/2008 11:55:36 PM
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Focusing
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But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. - Matthew 25:31-33
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Sam
Though the sound overpowers, sing again, with your dear voice revealing a tone
Of some world far from ours, where music and moonlight and feeling are one
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 5/14/2008 1:09:12 PM
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mindmatters
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Focusing
But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. - Matthew 25:31-33
revelation 20 is the separation of the nations. the saved(the church) and everybody else is outside the walls of the city during the 1000 years on earth. then the judgment of the dead occurs after satan is released again after the 1000 years to deceive the people for a short while, he shows up with another army and the bible says that God breathes fire out of heaven and totally destroys them. this is when the earth is consumed with fire, then the judgment, then the new heaven and earth are created where we will spend eternity. the dead are the only ones that are condemned because of their works.
they are judged by there works because they refused to allow Christ to take there place during this judgment. it is my belief that the ones that are with Christ during the 1000 years are judged then, the bible says that judgment was committed to them, rev 20. it does not say anything about the church being judged by the books that are opened in rev 20 with all the works recorded. that is for the dead, non believers in Christ's ability to save them.
i would encourage you to read this chapter again with no preconceived beliefs as to what it says, in other words, what you were taught in church leave somewhere, and let God reveal it to you. and don't take my word for it or your preachers word for, let God open it up for you. when i did this, i found there were a lot of things in the bible that i was told that were just not what the bible says. we cannot listen to others for our guidance, we must trust God completely.
and i am not saying that this type of format is wrong, i love to talk about Gods word with people, that is what the whole mind matters ministry is about. i believe that God uses us to minister to each other if we allow God to work in our lives.
the ones on the right are behind the throne at the judgment, i believe. because Christ shepards his sheep, he protects them.
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RE: Saved by Jesus, and still judged? - 5/15/2008 7:20:59 AM
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doer
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quote:
i would encourage you to read this chapter again with no preconceived beliefs as to what it says, in other words, what you were taught in church leave somewhere, (unwelcome spiritual counsel tos #9)
focusing just quoted a verse... didn't share an opinion about it, made no comment concerning it, didn't add to, or take away from.....
did I miss something?
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