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Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 7:51:52 AM
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csl7037
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Should we set high standards for our children? Or does that just set them up for failure?
No one ever expected anything good from my dh. So anything he's ever accomplished has been over and above and has been a nice surprise. The flip side of that is that his three brothers never did anything with their lives.
My parents, on the other hand, always set very high standards. In theory, I think I'm glad they did. But I question it because I'm terribly plagued by failure - real and imagined, now. It feels like everything I've ever done or worked for, I've gotten almost right or almost good enough. Every goal I've almost reached. I always feel like I fall short. My life is characterized by failure.
I wouldn't want my kids to feel like this. But can't let them languish aimlessly and turn out like my BILs either.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 8:10:17 AM
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HenriettasCat
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It depends what they are capable of.
We expect our children to try their best. Their attitude is more important than whether or not they came top in something.
We try and raise happy children. If our children feel happy, safe, loved - I think they will reach their potential. We set them acheivable goals. We also hope that they will be well rounded and know that success in life is about more than academics/what type of job you do - that kind of stuff. Although we want them to do well and nurture their gifts we do also have to be careful not to push too hard. There is a thin line between pushy and encouraging. Primarily we want our children to know that success is more about who they are - not what they do.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 8:29:41 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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I think that it depends on what you are setting the high standards. We have high standards for their character. I our home, a person's character is defined b how they generally are.
One of the standards is that we don't lie. If a child who is characteristically honest, gives in and lies at some point, he is not a failure in that reguard. His character is still one of honesty. We would talk with him and encourage him to not let it become a part of his character. If it became a more of an issue, then we would take stronger action.
While we do set high standards for moral conduct, we don't set high standards for achievements. If they have high standards of conduct, the achievements take care of themselves. Furthermore, I would rather have a child of high moral character who lives for the Lord than who has made high grades and won all kinds of awards.
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Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 11:28:43 AM
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reach
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I think you have to adjust what is a high standard.
When my nephew was younger, I always told him he would go to college. It was important to me, and I never left it as an option. This from being an infant.
He is now 16 and going to college is still important to me, but school is very hard for him because he has a learning disability. He was in 9th grade before he passed his classes on his own (without me doing a lot of work to help him catch up every semester). He got D's in a lot of classes. But he passed on his own. And we celebrated in my house. LOL!
I don't feel that I have changed my story to him. I still encourage him to go to college, but I have also suggested trade school. If he does go to college, he won't be able to take a full load, he will probably only be able to do 2 classes a semester.
He is a an awesome kid, a tiny bit spoiled, but is learning that we will not buy everything that he wants all the time. He loves church and plays music. Actually music is where he is very talented, and can learn instruments very easy. So I guess I have a higher standard for things he has a natural talent for than things he does not.
And I think it will be different for each kid.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 11:36:09 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
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Our only standard is that you are doing the absolute best that you can do. My parents set high standards for us, but they were based on what they knew we were capable of achieving. I would have been in deep doodoo if I brought home anything less then an "A", but that was because they knew I was easily capable of making those grades. The only class I was "allowed" to have anything less was math in which case I usually carried a solid C and that was with after school tutoring and extra studying on the weekends.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 12:33:55 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
So I guess I have a higher standard for things he has a natural talent for than things he does not.
I would agree with this approach. I remember as a kid my mom having extremely high standards on English papers we would write. We didn't have a computer until I was in my teens, and I remember writing papers by hand three or four times trying to get it perfect because she'd mark it all up in red and make me do it over. On the other hand, my little brother wasn't pushed so hard in English, because it was a real struggle for him just to learn to read. He can write songs and wins art contests all the time, so they encouraged him to excel in art and music.
With my own kids, I do encourage them to do better and to improve. If it's obviously something they have no talent or interest or future in, I am not likely to worry about it. We work on it and practice if they are involved in it, but I make sure my kids know that they are valued because of who they are, not because of how they perform.
My oldest son was in baseball this year, and he struck out the entire season. There was another parent there that was yelling at his son because he struck out through an entire game, and saying things to the other parents in his own sons presence like, "I don't know what's wrong with that kid! That's it--I'm not going to come back to any more of his games if he can't hit the stupid ball. I'm ready to just walk out of here right now. This is ridiculous." I felt so sorry for that kid.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 1:24:04 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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quote:
Should we set high standards for our children?
Absolutely, so long as they are reasonable, appropriate standards.
quote:
Or does that just set them up for failure?
Depends on the standards and the parents response to failure to meet them.
We have very high standards for morality and character. Those are the Biblical non-negotiables that we expect across the board and teach from infancy on.
We have high standards for academic achievements, but it's coupled with the understanding that each child will have different strengths and weaknesses, and different interests and callings.
Everything else, the standard is--Do the very best you can. "Whatever you do, do it with all your strength...and do it as unto the Lord." 
Our children also know that everyone makes mistakes. If they "fail" in the area of morality and character, we remind them of that, but they still get the consequences set out for them. If our oldest (5) makes a mistake in his schoolwork, I remind him that it's not something to be upset about (he has perfectionistic tendencies), and take his mistake as a sign that I need to sit down with him and help him work it out.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 3:29:36 PM
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Auben
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We have high standards and we consider mistakes and 'failure' to be useful in reaching those standards.
No one reaches a standard the first time. We learn what we need to know, we practice what we know, and we try each time to reach them. When we 'fail' we think about what we can change. When we reach our potential we celebrate. Each person is different, each potential is different.
I tell one of my sons that mistakes are some of the most useful things we can make...as long as we're willing to admit them and use them to do better next time.
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Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/3/2008 8:56:57 PM
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W.O.F.
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I don't think high standards are setting your children up for failure...especially if you make sure that those high standards are in character and behaviour..and then train them accordingly.
Are they going to mess up? Oh yea...we all do. That is our chance as parents to teach grace.
Academically, etc...high standards cause children to reach...and don't set them up for failure as LONG AS IT IS THE EFFORT THAT IS PRAISED...not the result.
I set high standards for my kids...and accept whatever work they can give me as LONG AS IT IS TRULY THEIR BEST AND HARDEST EFFORT....meaning if they can only pull a D or F..but they worked hard and put their best effort into it...that is good enough for me....and then we go at it from a different angle so that they can try again to master it...but without feeling like they have failed.
I'd rather have a hard won D than an A that cost them no effort at all...and so do my kids.
Again...it isn't the standards that are the problem, but where the emphasis lies. Is is on perfect outcomes? that is setting your kid up to fail.....
Is it on effort and honest work to reach the goals? then they will succeed..and that will teach them more than anything in the world.
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Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/4/2008 12:13:07 AM
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garsyt
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I agree wit W.O.F.!
I set some seriously high standards of character, morality and behavior. I have high expectations of my children academically as well. And they all know it. BUT, because I KNOW each of my children - I know very well when my children are doing their absolute best and when they are slacking off, and will respond accordingly. I have one child that school is EXTREMELY easy for. She gets A's and barely has to try. BUT she has also been known to only do the bare minimum, just enough to get the grade. That is so not acceptable - because I KNOW she is capable of more - so between her teachers and I, we made a point to push her, to challenge her, and make her work up to her abilities. I have another child, a son that struggles to make decent grades. He enjoys school but it is work for him. Serious amounts of work. He is on an advanced math track and took pre-algebra, algebra, and geometry in middle school. He struggled through these - once because of the teacher and then simply because he didn't get the base he needed because of that one teacher. He managed to pass all of these classes, but between his geometry teacher and us we decided that even though he was able to squeak out a C- that it would be better for him to repeat Geometry next year as a freshman. We don't consider this a failure - but an opportunity to get a good solid foundation before moving on. My younger two children also have their own abilities and bents and we tailor our expectations and set academic and other standards based on those abilities, their personalities and their God-given talents.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/4/2008 12:16:29 AM
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locomom
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Any extreme becomes a problem. But you have to consider the person's abilities and temperament.
As a parent you try to find the right way between too much and not enough challenge. You also have to teach when "good enough" is the standard. Not everything gets your all out best effort, nor can you spread yourself too thin.
We walk this line with my dd in college who has taken 17 or 18 hours each semester for her freshman and sophomore years (her idea) and must maintain an average high enough to keep her scholarship. Having gone to college myself and had straight A's expected all the time, I won't do that to her. However, she wants to go to graduate school and also needs really good grades.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/4/2008 1:20:37 AM
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Christian30
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Yes set high standards, and those that are biblically aligned, as others have suggested. AVOID PERFECTIONISM though. It is very hard on many kids and sets them up for failure and depression. My wife struggles with perfectionism, and in the long run it has been hard on our family.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/4/2008 12:22:47 PM
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W.O.F.
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I agree Christian30...perfectionism MUST be avoided..and too many people confuse doing your best effort with doing it perfect...there is a HUGE difference.....
an interesting psychological note we studied in college for education...kids for whom the "light switch has been set high" will strain to reach it....whereas when "light switch is in reach"...they stop trying....
Also...the thinking that we don't do our best effort for everything..that is again assuming that best effort always means perfectionism...which is does not. For me....doing best effort all the time in everything that I take on is a must....what that best effort is may change due to certain circumstances (for example...2 weeks ago I was writhing in pain and vomiting from a large kidney stone trying to pass...my best effort at doing my job of cleaning the church was MUCH different than it was the week before when I wasn't in pain!)...but I must always do my best. Scripture commands it.
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord,and not unto men Colossians 3:23 KJV
< Message edited by W.O.F. -- 7/4/2008 12:47:43 PM >
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/6/2008 12:25:57 AM
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stellaluna
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Posting cold.
I think kids should fail sometimes. I don't think kids should have unreasonable expectations that cause them to repeatedly fall short, but I think these days too many kids are told how great they are all the time--even though they aren't, they have parents that swoop in and fix everything--even though they shouldn't, and they learn to think the world revolves around them--even though it doesn't. They're unprepared for life away from home and often worthless in the workplace.
Kids need to learn to set goals and work toward them. They need to celebrate their successes, but also learn how to cope with failure. How you handle failure speaks a lot to your character, and goes hand in hand with integrity, honesty, etc.
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/6/2008 7:29:26 AM
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W.O.F.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Posting cold.
I think kids should fail sometimes. I don't think kids should have unreasonable expectations that cause them to repeatedly fall short, but I think these days too many kids are told how great they are all the time--even though they aren't, they have parents that swoop in and fix everything--even though they shouldn't, and they learn to think the world revolves around them--even though it doesn't. They're unprepared for life away from home and often worthless in the workplace.
Kids need to learn to set goals and work toward them. They need to celebrate their successes, but also learn how to cope with failure. How you handle failure speaks a lot to your character, and goes hand in hand with integrity, honesty, etc.
AMEN!!!!!!
_____________________________
Live your life in such a way that when your feet hit the floor in the morning, Satan shudders and says, "Oh no, she's awake."
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RE: Setting high standards...set up for failure? - 7/8/2008 1:18:02 AM
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locomom
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When I wrote about choosing not to do our best in everything, I was not speaking about perfectionism. I had in mind when I was in graduate school 25 years ago I took organic chemistry. None of my chemistry courses were required. I took quite a number because I wanted to. However, I never liked the organic chemistry class or the book. So I decided that I would only work hard enough to get a B+. With more effort, I could definitely have gotten an A - or A; I just didn't find I liked the subject enough to make the effort. When I got into physical chemistry the following year, I chose to go for top grades. And I got the A's in it. I was also the only person who had ever gotten a 100% on the final one of the quarters.
So I meant that there are times when we have to decide how much of ourselves we can or are willing to give to something. While excellence is a fine standard to strive for in many things, it is very reasonable to decide that for some things excellence will not be the standard. Sometimes good enough is...good enough. I think that this is something our children need to be taught along with the standard of excellence. I would also wait to teach it until the child is old enough before teaching it!
Summary: I firmly believe in the happy medium as well as excellence.
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