Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republican Party
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Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republican Party - 5/16/2008 4:41:27 PM
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bombers3602
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quote:
When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.
--Barry Goldwater 1994
Social conservatisms marriage with the Republican party sometime in the 1980's is the reason of the demise of todays Rebublican party to go alone with the Nonconservative wing as well....
Social conservatism at its premise goes against what conservatism in the political sense and in the Republican party sense stood for before their involvement.... Social conservatism is big government with the ability to try to legislate morality etc...
Its just an example of why political parties are garbage because they evolve overtime, its quite funny seeing modern day Republicans(not conservatives) thinking its "Conservative" for these big government bans on gay marriage and not see them for what they are which is government taking away Liberty from its citizens.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/16/2008 5:01:30 PM
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radiorobert
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Allow me to ask this question...
How is socialism (progressivism) any different?
It tries to legislate these certain forms of so-called 'social justice' which many who support consider to be morality issues.
We have to institute universal health care- Why? how is that any more or less moral than keeping people away from harmful drugs, or bad sexual behavior etc.?
I'm not saying I think much of anything outside of basic constitutional rights should be legislated. I don't.
You're argument is predicated on the assumption that conservatism is wrong and bad and moving away from conservatism and towards____________(what exactly?) is good.
Are you simply arguing for your version of morality? Or are you arguing against both neo-conservatism and ultra liberalism?
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/16/2008 5:05:52 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 903
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bombers3602
quote:
When you say “radical right” today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican party and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.
--Barry Goldwater 1994
Social conservatisms marriage with the Republican party sometime in the 1980's is the reason of the demise of todays Rebublican party to go alone with the Nonconservative wing as well....
Social conservatism at its premise goes against what conservatism in the political sense and in the Republican party sense stood for before their involvement.... Social conservatism is big government with the ability to try to legislate morality etc...
Its just an example of why political parties are garbage because they evolve overtime, its quite funny seeing modern day Republicans(not conservatives) thinking its "Conservative" for these big government bans on gay marriage and not see them for what they are which is government taking away Liberty from its citizens.
All legislation has some moral premise to it.
Opposition to anatomically-challenged 'marriage' is found everywhere, certainly not just among conservatives.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/16/2008 9:22:58 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3683
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From: my mom by God
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So...we want a party that doesn't have christian ethics....?????
We do?????
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/17/2008 6:29:20 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 647
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
So...we want a party that doesn't have christian ethics....?????
We do?????
It was support from the Christian right than helped usher in eight years of one of the most morally bankrupt, socially irresponsible eras in American history. We have seen religious leaders call for war and assassination, and defended an administration guilty of bigotry, disinformation, torture, and war crimes of various descriptions. The president has trodden upon the very Constitution that he solemnly swore- twice- to uphold with the glowing endorsement of the Christian right.
If this is what "Christian ethics" unleashes then, please-- no more Christian ethics in politics!
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/17/2008 7:53:02 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
and defended an administration guilty of bigotry
How? Bush has appointed more minorities to high posts than did Slick Willie.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/17/2008 11:58:52 PM
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ljmac
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The Republican Party was created with the premise that they were going to impose their morality. Democrats opposed them way back then when Republicans wanted to stop the spread of slavery, and then end it.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/18/2008 1:49:22 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3683
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quote:
It was support from the Christian right than helped usher in eight years of one of the most morally bankrupt, socially irresponsible eras in American history.
LBJ wasn't elected by the moral majority...neither was FDR.
quote:
We have seen religious leaders call for war and assassination, and defended an administration guilty of bigotry, disinformation, torture, and war crimes of various descriptions.
We have also seen religious...so called leaders...call for reverse descrimination and socialism.
quote:
The president has trodden upon the very Constitution that he solemnly swore- twice- to uphold with the glowing endorsement of the Christian right.
Dude, the conspiricy folder is over there with the black heliocopters and remote compounds.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/18/2008 9:14:17 PM
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Marcus.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
It was support from the Christian right than helped usher in eight years of one of the most morally bankrupt, socially irresponsible eras in American history.
Bill Clinton?
_____________________________
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.
Hosea Project Care Net
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/18/2008 11:08:12 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
It was support from the Christian right than helped usher in eight years of one of the most morally bankrupt, socially irresponsible eras in American history. We have seen religious leaders call for war and assassination, and defended an administration guilty of bigotry, disinformation, torture, and war crimes of various descriptions. The president has trodden upon the very Constitution that he solemnly swore- twice- to uphold with the glowing endorsement of the Christian right.
If this is what "Christian ethics" unleashes then, please-- no more Christian ethics in politics!
I didn't know that that the Christian right ushered in the Kennedy administration.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 7:28:08 AM
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mapachito13
Posts: 1753
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
It was support from the Christian right than helped usher in eight years of one of the most morally bankrupt, socially irresponsible eras in American history. We have seen religious leaders call for war and assassination, and defended an administration guilty of bigotry, disinformation, torture, and war crimes of various descriptions. The president has trodden upon the very Constitution that he solemnly swore- twice- to uphold with the glowing endorsement of the Christian right.
If this is what "Christian ethics" unleashes then, please-- no more Christian ethics in politics!
I didn't know that that the Christian right ushered in the Kennedy administration.
What makes lying to the American people to start a war and then allowing the government to spy and tap the phones of it citizens (thus trampling on the Bill of Rights) any less morally bankrupt? Or do only sexual sins count in your book?
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 8:30:11 AM
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bombers3602
Posts: 59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
The Republican Party was created with the premise that they were going to impose their morality. Democrats opposed them way back then when Republicans wanted to stop the spread of slavery, and then end it.
Yea and the Solid South were Democrats who disagreed with the more liberal Republican party and its stance on Slavery, it was the conservative southern Democrats who were using scripture from the Bible to justify Slavary..... The solid south was Democrat until about 1968 when certain legislation were passed by the liberal wing of the party that was starting to take over...
Todays Republican party is not Lincolns Republican Party, just like the Democrat party is not the same party they evolve from generation to generation as ideology change...
< Message edited by bombers3602 -- 5/19/2008 8:37:21 AM >
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 9:58:45 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1446
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I didn't know that that the Christian right ushered in the Kennedy administration.
Actually, Southern Baptist country went for Kennedy in droves back in 1960.
You'll also notice that despite all of his private business, he was still an excellent president- at least compared to Nixon.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 10:06:58 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 615
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I didn't know that that the Christian right ushered in the Kennedy administration.
Actually, Southern Baptist country went for Kennedy in droves back in 1960.
You'll also notice that despite all of his private business, he was still an excellent president- at least compared to Nixon.
And JFK was a forerunner of the very things Reagan tried to accomplish when he waas in office.....a strong military, tax cuts etc
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 10:24:43 AM
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1dblthnk02
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I'm just glad that the Christian right has no one to rally behind this time. Now maybe at least a trace of sanity might return to government.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 11:17:56 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1446
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
And JFK was a forerunner of the very things Reagan tried to accomplish when he waas in office.....a strong military, tax cuts etc
But the most important thing he was remembered for was keeping a cool head in the Cuban Missile Crisis and successfully avoiding other foreign policy blunders.
If only we had a President today who didn't follow the matra of shooting first and asking questions later.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 11:21:51 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
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quote:
What makes lying to the American people to start a war and then allowing the government to spy and tap the phones of it citizens (thus trampling on the Bill of Rights) any less morally bankrupt? Or do only sexual sins count in your book?
I never said that it was 'any less morally bankrupt'; why would I say the Kennedy administration was less bankrupt than any that followed?
< Message edited by Jhud -- 5/19/2008 11:50:58 AM >
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 11:37:31 AM
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Jhud
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quote:
Actually, Southern Baptist country went for Kennedy in droves back in 1960.
You'll also notice that despite all of his private business, he was still an excellent president- at least compared to Nixon.
Kennedy had his failed wars and assasination plots; there is little reason Bapatists or any others on the 'Christian right' was responsible for these.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 12:08:41 PM
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ljmac
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bombers3602
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
The Republican Party was created with the premise that they were going to impose their morality. Democrats opposed them way back then when Republicans wanted to stop the spread of slavery, and then end it.
Yea and the Solid South were Democrats who disagreed with the more liberal Republican party and its stance on Slavery, it was the conservative southern Democrats who were using scripture from the Bible to justify Slavary..... The solid south was Democrat until about 1968 when certain legislation were passed by the liberal wing of the party that was starting to take over...
Todays Republican party is not Lincolns Republican Party, just like the Democrat party is not the same party they evolve from generation to generation as ideology change...
Republicans have a long history of calling for freedom and the protection of the innocent. Democrats opposed them when they tried to end slavery. Democrats were the KKK. Democrats were Jim Crow. Democrats (liberals) have long used abortion to attack the poor, killing blacks faster than they could even dream of by lynchings.
Republicans wanted freedom for slaves and freedom for the unborn. Just as surely as Republicans wanted to end segregation, Democrats wanted to keep it. Where once they physically stood in the school house door to turn away black children, today they say it's unconstitutional to give a poor black child a voucher and help them escape rotten schools.
Democrats will pay for an abortion to kill a black child, but not for an education at a private school.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 12:16:41 PM
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ljmac
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
And JFK was a forerunner of the very things Reagan tried to accomplish when he waas in office.....a strong military, tax cuts etc
But the most important thing he was remembered for was keeping a cool head in the Cuban Missile Crisis and successfully avoiding other foreign policy blunders.
If only we had a President today who didn't follow the matra of shooting first and asking questions later.
Keeping a cool head? He was on drugs. It was his impulsive, cowardly, backstabbing of exiled Cubans during the Bay of Pigs fiasco that precipitated the missle crisis. Cubans have a long memory and gave Florida to GWB. Thanks JFK.
JFK was nothing like today's Democrats. He was a hawk among hawks, breaking nuclear testing agreements before the ink dried. He desperately tried to murder Fiedel Castro, who is sort of a romantic figure among today's liberals. He poked fun at homosexuals, which is more proof than anything that he would be despised by Democrats today.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 3:05:20 PM
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blessedinnyc
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Keeping a cool head? He was on drugs. It was his impulsive, cowardly, backstabbing of exiled Cubans during the Bay of Pigs fiasco that precipitated the missle crisis. Cubans have a long memory and gave Florida to GWB. Thanks JFK.
Ironically, Bay of Pigs was planned at the direction of the Eisenhower administration. Kennedy made the mistake of acquiescing to it, and he was one of the rare presidents to actually take responsibility for a foreign policy blunder.
quote:
JFK was nothing like today's Democrats. He was a hawk among hawks, breaking nuclear testing agreements before the ink dried. He desperately tried to murder Fiedel Castro, who is sort of a romantic figure among today's liberals. He poked fun at homosexuals, which is more proof than anything that he would be despised by Democrats today.
Had Goldwater been president during the Cuban Missile Crisis, it's very likely that we wouldn't be here right now.
Also, if you can claim JFK's legacy, we can claim TR's and Lincoln's.
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 4:04:42 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Ironically, Bay of Pigs was planned at the direction of the Eisenhower administration. Kennedy made the mistake of acquiescing to it, and he was one of the rare presidents to actually take responsibility for a foreign policy blunder.
Kennedy knew full well what was going on, and he tried to keep it from becoming public - he couldn't do anything but acknowledge it because it was a complete and utter failure.
After that, he commissioned the CIA to overthrow Castro, assassinating him if necessary.
And I wonder if, had he been around, he would have taken responsibility for starting Viet Nam as well?
quote:
Had Goldwater been president during the Cuban Missile Crisis, it's very likely that we wouldn't be here right now.
As Kennedy ran against Nixon, I don't know how that would have been possible for Goldwater to have been President.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 4:33:11 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1446
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
As Kennedy ran against Nixon, I don't know how that would have been possible for Goldwater to have been President.
Something tells me that Nixon would have also let the generals get their way, too, but I brought up Goldwater because I knew that I'd get the "Nixon wasn't a true conservative" defense. So instead I'm getting the "Goldwater didn't run in 1960" defense instead. ;)
< Message edited by blessedinnyc -- 5/19/2008 4:40:28 PM >
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 5:19:13 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 6798
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Something tells me that Nixon would have also let the generals get their way, too, but I brought up Goldwater because I knew that I'd get the "Nixon wasn't a true conservative" defense. So instead I'm getting the "Goldwater didn't run in 1960" defense instead. ;)
Well, if we are going to base our arguments on speculations about who might and might not have been able to deal with certain international crisis, it might very well have been that Goldwater wouldn't have waffled on his support on the Bay of Pigs, and instead done it in a decisive way that would have swept the rat Castro off the island, thus avoiding the October Missle Crisis all together.
There, my speculative re-imagination of history just defeated yours. Vote Goldwater.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
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RE: Social Conservatism and its Hijack of the Republica... - 5/19/2008 5:50:29 PM
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ljmac
Posts: 903
Joined: 11/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
Keeping a cool head? He was on drugs. It was his impulsive, cowardly, backstabbing of exiled Cubans during the Bay of Pigs fiasco that precipitated the missle crisis. Cubans have a long memory and gave Florida to GWB. Thanks JFK.
Ironically, Bay of Pigs was planned at the direction of the Eisenhower administration. Kennedy made the mistake of acquiescing to it, and he was one of the rare presidents to actually take responsibility for a foreign policy blunder.
quote:
JFK was nothing like today's Democrats. He was a hawk among hawks, breaking nuclear testing agreements before the ink dried. He desperately tried to murder Fiedel Castro, who is sort of a romantic figure among today's liberals. He poked fun at homosexuals, which is more proof than anything that he would be despised by Democrats today.
Had Goldwater been president during the Cuban Missile Crisis, it's very likely that we wouldn't be here right now.
Also, if you can claim JFK's legacy, we can claim TR's and Lincoln's.
The Eisenhower plan, which was the same one that JFK originally ordered, called for American aircraft to support the mission, destroy Cuba's air force and severly harm the Castro's defenses. Instead Kennedy sent the exiled Cubans off on their invasion without telling them he was going to order the American aircraft to abandon their mission.
You can have JFK. While he had some moments of character, he also had sex with bunches of women whom he didn't bother to tell that he had VD. Could that have been the pre-Roe method to stopping unwanted children, infect young women with VD that causes sterility?
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