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Tattoos Anyone? - 6/4/2008 11:47:59 PM
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catalyst7227
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I dont mean to offend anybody, i know that we all have our own convictions, but what can you say about tatoos on Christians? specially those ones who are well known and looked up by the younger generation. i dont mean to mention names or anything, i just saw a picture of them here
i was surprised. i know not much about them and i do not want to judge others.
what are you thinking??
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/4/2008 11:59:50 PM
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1love1God1way
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Why would it matter?
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 12:08:32 AM
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reillan
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It would matter because for a Christian, your body is a temple to the Holy Spirit and such things could be seen as abuse of the temple. There is also a passage in Leviticus which specifically says not to ink your body (too tired to find it right now). Some people believe that is still the proper way to be.
I frankly agree, but I know that other Christians don't and I'm OK with that. You'll just never see me sporting a tat or getting a piercing :)
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 12:12:55 AM
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1love1God1way
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How does getting a tattoo hinder the work of the Holy Spirit.
And the verse in Leviticus is about marking your body for the dead. Not quite the same.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 12:27:19 AM
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MrFribbles
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I've heard that, in some countries (Egypt, maybe?), many Christians choose to get something that identify them as Christians (crosses, I believe) tattooed on their wrists, so that no matter what, they can't get them taken off. They're marked as a follower of Christ for life, for good or bad. I know some Christians here in America who have done a similar thing. To me, that's amazing. They've made the choice that, if they're ever tempted to deny Christ, they can't!
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Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 1:16:36 AM
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Solus
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There is nothing in the Bible against tattoos. The verse about not applying ink to your body, had to do with dedicating the dead to heathen gods. The verse about your body being a temple that you should not defile, had to do with prostitution. And both of them had to do with Jewish law under the Old Covenant. The whole point of Jesus dying for us was so that we didn't have to follow that. We are under a New Covenant. All we have to do is believe in him.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 5:52:52 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
All we have to do is believe in him.
That would be the first step of Christianity, but it's far from ending there.
Tattoos are ugly. I'd rather showcase my faith based off my lifestyle.
_____________________________
Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 6:19:07 AM
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Doc65
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It was not uncommon for Christians in the eraly Church to mark themselves after baptism. Procopius of Gaza notes that they might mark themselves with a cross, anchor or fish on their arms, hands or legs so as to identify themselves as followers of the way. It's amazing how this issue burbles to the surface over and over again...apparently there is nothing new under the sun...
_____________________________
"The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, He enables me to go on the heights." Hab. 3:19
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 7:37:32 AM
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reillan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
How does getting a tattoo hinder the work of the Holy Spirit.
And the verse in Leviticus is about marking your body for the dead. Not quite the same.
Depending on how you read the sentence... the first part of it is definitely having to do with the dead, but the latter part, maybe not - if you assume that the entire sentence has to do with marking your body for the dead, then I can see your point, but I would assume that is not the case.
For reference for everyone else:
"" 'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.'" - Leviticus 19:28
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 8:19:18 AM
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car2ner
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I looked at the link and the band Red has a member with a tatoo on his upper arm. That doesn't bother me as much as the punk attitude image they used for their album cover.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 9:15:48 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
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For me, it's all about being "in the world, but not of the world". We're to look different, act different, be different. The Bible calls it "holiness". We're also to abstain from even the appearance of evil, which tells me, if in doubt, leave it out.
One of the big things (well, probably the biggest thing) in the Old Testament was God trying to keep the Israelites from being tainted with the rituals and religions of the pagans around them. Then we saw that happening again with the Church in the New Testament. It still goes on today...you're right, there is nothing new under the sun.
I know I'll probably be in the minority, but that's okay. "Narrow is the way..."
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 12:07:13 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
For me, it's all about being "in the world, but not of the world". We're to look different, act different, be different. The Bible calls it "holiness". We're also to abstain from even the appearance of evil, which tells me, if in doubt, leave it out.
How far do we take this? The world drives cars - should Christians not own cars? The world, heh, uses the internet, but I know that nobody on here has a problem with that. The world wears suits (well, at least the men, and some of the women), should Christians never wear suits? I could go on, but I think you get my point.
quote:
Depending on how you read the sentence... the first part of it is definitely having to do with the dead, but the latter part, maybe not - if you assume that the entire sentence has to do with marking your body for the dead, then I can see your point, but I would assume that is not the case.
But if we take this verse as a command for Christians, we are obligated to follow all of Leviticus. We need a thread about Christians who wear clothing of more than one cloth, a thread making sure any farmers on here only have one crop sowed in each field, etc. We are not under the Law anymore, so quoting a verse from Leviticus is not a good argument against tattoos.
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 2:41:24 PM
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Solus
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Don't forget Leviticus tells us not to shave and to stone rebellious children as well as homosexuals.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 2:50:51 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
For me, it's all about being "in the world, but not of the world". We're to look different, act different, be different. The Bible calls it "holiness". We're also to abstain from even the appearance of evil, which tells me, if in doubt, leave it out.
How far do we take this? The world drives cars - should Christians not own cars? The world, heh, uses the internet, but I know that nobody on here has a problem with that. The world wears suits (well, at least the men, and some of the women), should Christians never wear suits? I could go on, but I think you get my point.
quote:
Depending on how you read the sentence... the first part of it is definitely having to do with the dead, but the latter part, maybe not - if you assume that the entire sentence has to do with marking your body for the dead, then I can see your point, but I would assume that is not the case.
But if we take this verse as a command for Christians, we are obligated to follow all of Leviticus. We need a thread about Christians who wear clothing of more than one cloth, a thread making sure any farmers on here only have one crop sowed in each field, etc. We are not under the Law anymore, so quoting a verse from Leviticus is not a good argument against tattoos.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
Don't forget Leviticus tells us not to shave and to stone rebellious children as well as homosexuals.
Ahhhh...it's all clear now! We need to rip the whole book of Leviticus out of our Bibles! It's clearly outdated and not very hip!
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 3:07:26 PM
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lexie
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I would hope that if you don't agree with Christians getting tattoos, you wouldn't judge those of us who have them. You don't know why they are there, and besides that, you don't what is in our hearts.
I got two tattoos before I came to the Lord. I won't get anymore, but I can't get rid of the ones I have. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a Christian. And as far as I see, they remind me of who I was before I came to Jesus.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 3:30:02 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lexie
I would hope that if you don't agree with Christians getting tattoos, you wouldn't judge those of us who have them. You don't know why they are there, and besides that, you don't what is in our hearts.
I got two tattoos before I came to the Lord. I won't get anymore, but I can't get rid of the ones I have. It doesn't mean I'm any less of a Christian. And as far as I see, they remind me of who I was before I came to Jesus.
I certainly hope, Lexie, that you don't infer that from my post (above yours). Personally, I think your attitude is great!!! You're sound like you personify "ashes to beauty".
Nope, my snide little remark has less to do with tattoos and more to do with the general feelings expressed here about a particular book of the Bible. Some scripture may be hard to swallow, difficult for us to understand or reconcile, and definitely beyond my being able to explain, but ALL scripture is given for edification...not just some.
That was my point. People like to sneer and poke fun at Leviticus, but that's too dangerous of a road for me.
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 5:47:21 PM
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stellaluna
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I don't think anyone was poking fun at Leviticus. It's just that too often a verse or two is picked out as law and all the rest are conveniently ignored. If you say that tattoos are wrong based on that book alone, then all the other things must logically be wrong as well.
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CW Underground
"In one century, we went from teaching Greek and Latin in lower schools to teaching remedial English in colleges."
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 5:56:11 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
For me, it's all about being "in the world, but not of the world". We're to look different, act different, be different.
Why are tattoos "of the world?"
How do we pick and choose what is "of the world" and what isn't?
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 6:25:10 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
I don't think anyone was poking fun at Leviticus. It's just that too often a verse or two is picked out as law and all the rest are conveniently ignored. If you say that tattoos are wrong based on that book alone, then all the other things must logically be wrong as well.
Precisely! That was my point. Leviticus is certainly a valuable part of Scripture - however, it must be properly interpreted in order to be profitable for the Christian, and I firmly believe that the correct interpretation does not include picking and choosing which tidbits of the Law must still apply today.
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 6:41:19 PM
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Doc65
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...some folks who I know who were tattooed after they were baptized call it their "birthmark". As I noted in my earlier post, it wasn't uncommon to be tattooed after baptism in the early church - one of the rites before baptism was to strip completely naked during the baptismal vigil prior to entering the font (which was actually more of a pool along the lines of the ceremonial baths of the Temple) so that the soon-to-be Christians could be examined for marks showing that they were members of the mystery religions of the pagans or "infiltrators" of the Roman Empire...the tattooing after baptism marked them physically and outwardly and indicated their being marked by the Spirit. A good book which covers some aspects of the practice is "The Bible and the Liturgy" by Jean Danielou, S.J.
External markings have little to nothing to do with what is in one's heart...
_____________________________
"The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, He enables me to go on the heights." Hab. 3:19
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 7:23:44 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
For me, it's all about being "in the world, but not of the world". We're to look different, act different, be different.
Why are tattoos "of the world?"
How do we pick and choose what is "of the world" and what isn't?
Well, those are hard questions. I'll refer to one of my earlier posts:
quote:
One of the big things (well, probably the biggest thing) in the Old Testament was God trying to keep the Israelites from being tainted with the rituals and religions of the pagans around them. Then we saw that happening again with the Church in the New Testament.
God has always had a problem with His people identifying with pagan groups. Tattooing is one way of doing that. That's not to say that all people that get tattoos are part of some gang or satanic group...that's not what I'm saying so don't even go there!
But what is ones reason for getting a tattoo? If we are supposed to strive to glorify God in all we do, how does getting a tattoo do that? Do some get tattoos to glorify self? Do some do it to fit into a certain mold they're set their sights on?
You're a bright guy. What were some of the customs of the nations with which Israel came into contact? What were God's commands about adopting those customs? Are there ANY biblical examples of ANY of God's people that did adopt such customs? How did those situations turn out?
As for "picking and choosing", for the truly saved, it's usually quite obvious. We have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If we don't harden our hearts to Him, He makes things quite clear. We may not like the answer, but we really have no choice if our stand is with Christ. I think a good indicator is this...if we have to argue and try to prove our point, it's probably not a good idea. That's the example Jesus set forth...He didn't argue a point...He just redirected people to the scriptures.
Remember..."narrow is the way" and "the world hated Me, therefore it will hate you."
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 7:52:02 PM
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SonInMe1
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I think christians like to find reasons to be divisive.
This is a very minor issue. If the tattoo causes you to sin then don't get one. If the tattoo is an idol don't get one.
I can't imagine going through what you have to go through to get a tattoo. It wouldn't be worth it for me. I find no value in them. I find nothing pleasing about them. I think its foolish to get one but...
if I was a kid today I might get one. Its one of those "cool" things. Heck, I had long hair as a kid and did the cool things back then too.
I am not sure that makes tattoos "acceptable".
I have no problem whatsoever with a christian having tattoos. I just think...they are dumb.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Tattoos Anyone? - 6/5/2008 8:08:32 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
But what is ones reason for getting a tattoo? If we are supposed to strive to glorify God in all we do, how does getting a tattoo do that? Do some get tattoos to glorify self? Do some do it to fit into a certain mold they're set their sights on?
Allow me to slightly modify what you wrote -
But what is ones reason for getting a expensive new outfit? If we are supposed to strive to glorify God in all we do, how does getting a expensive new outfit do that? Do some get expensive new suits to glorify self? Do some do it to fit into a certain mold they're set their sights on?
In my mind, this argument against tattoos can just as easily be made about any outer adornment we put on ourselves - be it clothes, jewelry, body paint, make-up, what have you.
quote:
As for "picking and choosing", for the truly saved, it's usually quite obvious. We have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If we don't harden our hearts to Him, He makes things quite clear.
Oh good, you're either accusing us (and by us, I mean those who say tattoos are OK) of either hardening our hearts, or not really being saved. I'm not sure that's fair, or biblical.
quote:
I think a good indicator is this...if we have to argue and try to prove our point, it's probably not a good idea.
I wish someone had told that to Martin Luther, it would have saved us from that messy Reformation business. Or those silly-nillys who fought and argued against those who denied the Trinity back in those old council-y things. Man, what were they thinking, arguing and trying to prove their points?
Heh, sorry, I digress.
Given that there is no New Testament command against tattoos, I feel that if anyone wants to make a universal good or bad statement about them, they have to make some sort of argument, because there's just nothing clear on the subject.
Personally, I'm comfortable putting tattoos in a Romans 14 category - something that will be OK for some Christians, but not OK for others, and that's just fine.
*edited because I forgot the word "tattoos" in the last paragraph there*
< Message edited by MrFribbles -- 6/5/2008 8:22:37 PM >
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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