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Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/29/2008 10:03:34 PM
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pastor79553
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Does what the churches today teach based on scripture? Where is the divinity of Jesus found in the scripture? Or the trinity? Where does Jesus talk about his death on the cross being for the redemption of many?
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This is eternal life that they might know Thee, the only True GOD... (John 17.3)
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 12:03:37 AM
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faithfulservant_
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quote:
original: pastor79553
Where is the divinity of Jesus found in the scripture?
Hello preacher,
This question you posed concerns me a great deal. The word divinity according to the Webster's Dictionary means the following:
1. the quality or condition of being divine
2. a divine being; a god; diety
3. a divine power, virtue
Since the bible clearly says that Jesus was God, I will just assume that I have misinterpreted your question.
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 12:32:06 AM
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BibleL7
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pastor79553
Does what the churches today teach based on scripture?
This would depend on the congregation for many churches yes it is Scripture based teaching others not many do not believe in Scriptures though they continue to call themselves the church.
quote:
Where is the divinity of Jesus found in the scripture?
Through out the Scripture particularly every account which states that the people took up stones to stone Him for the reason they wanted to stone Him was His claiming to be God or Divinity.
quote:
Or the trinity? Where does Jesus talk about his death on the cross being for the redemption of many?
The trinity is taught from Genesis through Revelation. And Jesus sated about His dieing on the cross as redemption of many look at Mark 14 and any other account of Lords supper and many other places.
As to the first reply I would say that the OP knows the def of all terms just a matter of either they dont believe in the Scriptures, Dont believe the items mentioned are taught in Scriptures or they are wondering if anyone else knows they are in Scripture. Just because the word Pastor is in a SN does not meant the person is a pastor or a beliver for there are some nonbelievers that also call leaders pastors. only the OP can say which they are.
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 4:13:16 AM
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faithfulservant_
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quote:
original: pastor79553
Hello everone. My name is Pastor Jonathan Patten.
Yes, he is definitely a pastor.
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 7:42:34 AM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: faithfulservant_
quote:
original: pastor79553
Hello everone. My name is Pastor Jonathan Patten.
Yes, he is definitely a pastor.
Sounds like he may be a JW "pastor."
Here is what his profile says:
"I don't believe your basic Christian doctrine. Why? Because it is unscriptural, and didn't come about until 325 c.e. in the Council of Nicaea."
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 7:44:41 AM
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pastor79553
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The reason I pose these questions is because I find contrary in the bible. In the book of James it says that when we are tempted not to say we are tempted of GOD because GOD CANNOT BE TEMPTED OF EVIL therefore He tempts no one. But in the Gospels we see Jesus being tempted. Since Jesus was tempted And GOD cannot be......
_____________________________
This is eternal life that they might know Thee, the only True GOD... (John 17.3)
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 7:51:30 AM
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pastor79553
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Deut. 6.4 " Hear, O'Israel, the LORD is our GOD, the LORD is ONE. "
How can "one" be "three"? It says throughout the bible how GOD is NOT LIKE MAN, and how He will not share His glory with another. If GOD is not like man, how could 'man' concieve the idea that GOD should have biological children? If Jesus is GOD's son based on the fact of his virgin birth, then Adam would have more claim to that title then any one because he had neither mother or father.
_____________________________
This is eternal life that they might know Thee, the only True GOD... (John 17.3)
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 7:53:50 AM
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earthless
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I smell a Jehovah Witnesses elder.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 8:08:27 AM
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faithfulservant_
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quote:
original: pastor79553
But in the Gospels we see Jesus being tempted. Since Jesus was tempted and God cannot be tempted.
Was Jesus Christ tempted by satan? Yes, but being tempted is not a sin. Why was Jesus tempted? Because Jesus was fully God and fully man. In other words, Jesus Christ was 100% God and 100% man.
< Message edited by faithfulservant_ -- 6/30/2008 8:25:23 AM >
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 8:08:42 AM
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Kat_D
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To the OP....just a little reminder of the terms of service for this site:
15. You will not promote by repeated statements, by provision of URLs to other Web sites, by recommendation to engage in non-community activities such as watching programs, reading books, or attending events, or by any other means, beliefs or teachings contrary to those of Christianity as articulated by the historic creeds, as understood by Evangelicalism, and as interpreted by Salem Web Network in its sole discretion.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 8:12:48 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pastor79553
Deut. 6.4 " Hear, O'Israel, the LORD is our GOD, the LORD is ONE. "
How can "one" be "three"? It says throughout the bible how GOD is NOT LIKE MAN, and how He will not share His glory with another. If GOD is not like man, how could 'man' concieve the idea that GOD should have biological children? If Jesus is GOD's son based on the fact of his virgin birth, then Adam would have more claim to that title then any one because he had neither mother or father.
Just for our edification, since you think Jesus is Satan's brother and equal, according to your vain philosophy, what is your basis of hope for eternal life - your goodness, your works, what?
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 8:45:15 AM
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BerianAardvark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pastor79553
Deut. 6.4 " Hear, O'Israel, the LORD is our GOD, the LORD is ONE. "
How can "one" be "three"? It says throughout the bible how GOD is NOT LIKE MAN, and how He will not share His glory with another. If GOD is not like man, how could 'man' concieve the idea that GOD should have biological children? If Jesus is GOD's son based on the fact of his virgin birth, then Adam would have more claim to that title then any one because he had neither mother or father.
For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. (Genesis 2:24)
How can two people become one flesh?
All these, being men of war who could draw up in battle formation, came to Hebron with a perfect heart to make David king over all Israel; and all the rest also of Israel were of one mind to make David king. (1 Chronicles 12:38)
Day by day continuing with one mind in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they were taking their meals together with gladness and sincerity of heart, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved. (Acts 2:46-47)
Does that mean they only have one brain between them?
There are two forms of the word one in both Hebrew and Greek (and English, though there is determined by context) the one of singularity, and the one of unity.
In the Shama (what you cited) and the verses I cited the word translated one is:
H259 אחד 'echâd
BDB Definition: 1) one (number) 1a) one (number) 1b) each, every 1c) a certain 1d) an (indefinite article) 1e) only, once, once for all 1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one 1g) first
The one of singularity is H3173 יחיד yâchîyd BDB Definition: 1) only, only one, solitary, one (adjective) 1a) only, unique, one 1b) solitary 1c) (TWOT) only begotten son 2) one (substantive)
A different word for a different concept...unlike English.
That is how three can be one, they are united in thought, purpose and desire.
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 10:13:02 AM
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pastor79553
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I'm being misunderstood. Being tempted is not a sin, but it is impossible for GOD to be tempted. Jesus never claimed to be GOD in the flesh, or literally the son of GOD. But it was said at least 5 times that he was a prophet. Even his own disciples said this of him after his ressurection; this was said by two of his disciples to Jesus on the road to emaus. Jesus having diety status didn't come about until the Council of Nicaea.
_____________________________
This is eternal life that they might know Thee, the only True GOD... (John 17.3)
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 10:21:39 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pastor79553
Jesus never claimed to be GOD in the flesh, or literally the son of GOD. But it was said at least 5 times that he was a prophet. Even his own disciples said this of him after his ressurection; this was said by two of his disciples to Jesus on the road to emaus. Jesus having diety status didn't come about until the Council of Nicaea.
Wrong. When Jesus came to Caesarea Philippi, He asked his disciples the mother of all questions, "Who do you say that I am?" (Matthew 16:15, Mark 8:29, Luke 9:20).
Mormons answer this question by saying that Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer; Jehovah Witnesses answer by saying that Jesus is the archangel Michael; New Agers say Jesus is an avatar or enlightened messenger.
Jesus, however, answered by claiming that He was God.
First, Jesus claimed to be the unique Son of God. As a result, the Jewish leaders tried to kill Him because in "calling God His own Father, Jesus was making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).
In John 8:58 Jesus went so far as to use the very words by which God revealed Himself to Moses from the burning bush (Exodus 3:14). To the Jews this was the epitome of blasphemy for they knew that in doing so Jesus was clearly claiming to be God.
On yet another occasion, Jesus explicitly told the Jews: "I and the Father are one.' Again the Jews picked up stones to stone Him, but Jesus said to them "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me? We are not stoning you for any of these, ' replied the Jews, 'but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God (John 10:30-33).
Furthermore, Jesus made an unmistakable claim to deity before the Chief Priests and the whole Sanhedrin. Caiaphas the High Priest asked him: "Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One? 'I am,' said Jesus. And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven" (Mark 14:61-62).
A biblically illiterate person might well have missed the import of Jesus' words.
Caiaphas and the Council, however, did not. They knew that in saying he was "the Son of Man" who would come "on the clouds of heaven" he was making a overt reference to the Son of Man in Daniel's prophecy (Daniel 7:13-14).
And in doing so, He was not only claiming to be the preexistent Sovereign of the Universe but prophesying that He would vindicate His claim by judging the very court that was now condemning Him.
Moreover, by combining Daniel's prophecy with David's proclamation in Psalm 110, Jesus was claiming that He would sit upon the throne of Israel's God and share God's very glory.
To students of the Old Testament this was the height of "blasphemy," thus "they all condemned Him as worthy of death" (Mark 14:64).
Finally, Jesus claimed to possess the very attributes of God.
For example, He claimed omniscience by telling Peter, "this very night, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times" (Matthew 26:34); declared omnipotence by not only resurrecting Lazarus (John 11:43) but by raising Himself from the dead (see John 2:1(); and professed omnipresence by promising He would be with his disciples "to the very end of the age" (Matthew 28:20).
Not only so, but Jesus said to the paralytic in Luke 5:20, "Friend, your sins are forgiven." In doing so, he claimed a prerogative reserved for God alone. In addition, when Thomas worshiped Jesus saying, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:20), Jesus responded with commendation rather than condemnation.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 10:36:57 AM
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LBolt
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Explain Philippians 3:6-11.
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 10:45:54 AM
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pastor79553
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Read your Church History. The New Testament as we know it today did not exist until after the Council of Nicaea. Jesus never claimed to be GOD. A Presbyterian minister told me once that when Jesus called GOD his Father it was not meant to be taken literal. It was meant to denote the type of relationship he had With GOD. Even Jesus said in Matt. 5 that the peacemakers would be blessed because they would be called the sons of GOD. But say you are right. That would mean that if Jesus is begotton of GOD there must have been a time when the "Son" did not exist. Then it would stand to reason that the "Son" is limited. But that brings up a very good question: if Jesus was GOD, or a part of GOD then who was he praying to; since prayer is the greatest form of worship? In John 17.3 Jesus was praying and said that eternal life was " to know Thee the only True GOD ". If Jesus was a part of GOD, or GOD who did he say that of?
No, I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but my beliefs are similar to that of the Priest Arius of Alexandria who was under Bishop Alexander.
_____________________________
This is eternal life that they might know Thee, the only True GOD... (John 17.3)
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 11:21:06 AM
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BerianAardvark
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pastor79553
Read your Church History. The New Testament as we know it today did not exist until after the Council of Nicaea. Jesus never claimed to be GOD. A Presbyterian minister told me once that when Jesus called GOD his Father it was not meant to be taken literal. It was meant to denote the type of relationship he had With GOD. Even Jesus said in Matt. 5 that the peacemakers would be blessed because they would be called the sons of GOD. But say you are right. That would mean that if Jesus is begotton of GOD there must have been a time when the "Son" did not exist. Then it would stand to reason that the "Son" is limited. But that brings up a very good question: if Jesus was GOD, or a part of GOD then who was he praying to; since prayer is the greatest form of worship? In John 17.3 Jesus was praying and said that eternal life was " to know Thee the only True GOD ". If Jesus was a part of GOD, or GOD who did he say that of?
No, I am not a Jehovah's Witness, but my beliefs are similar to that of the Priest Arius of Alexandria who was under Bishop Alexander.
I have studied early church history.
Ever hear of Marcion? In 144 CE he was tried for creating his own canon. He rejected all of the Gospels accepted only a highly edited version of Luke, and some of Paul's epistles (also highly edited).
Marcion's canon accelerated the process of fixing the Church's canon, which had already begun in the first half of the 2nd century. It was in opposition to Marcion's criticism that the Church first became fully conscious of its inheritance of apostolic writings. According to [Grant] (p. 126): "Marcion forced more orthodox Christians to examine their own presuppositions and to state more clearly what they already believed".
Last I checked Nicea was in the 4th century, 144 would have been mid second century.
A chart showing what the early church fathers considered canonical can be found here: http://www.ntcanon.org/table.shtml and by far the majority of them were long before Nicea.
The canon is an official list of books, it needed to become official to keep everyone and their uncle Lucile who had access to a crayon and a surface to write upon from declaring their writings inspired scripture.
But it also became important during the persecutions when the Romans were rounding up all Christian writings, it was no sin to turn over some material...stuff basically Christian, but not really scripture could be turned in, but some things (scripture) should be protected, hidden and guarded. That lead to lists of books considered to be sacred to Christians being drawn up....during persecutions= pre Nicea.
Tim
_____________________________
The Law is for the proud and the Gospel for the brokenhearted - Martin Luther
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RE: Teachings of Jesus Or Teachings of Man? - 6/30/2008 1:56:49 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I am closing this thread, since there is no way for the OP to continue without being banned.
Pastor, I strongly suggst that you read the Terms of Service, the Statement of Faith and the Range of Doctrines for this site before posting further. You will find links at the bottom of each page, above the Salem logo.
You are welcome here, but you must respect this site's beliefs and not argue against them. You agreed to this when you joined the community.
I suggest you find other subjects to discuss on thes boards.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
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