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The age of accountability/salvation - 4/8/2008 11:24:22 PM
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Don675
Posts: 74
Joined: 11/5/2007
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What about the age of accountability and salvation in relation to
children?I know there is nothing in the BIBLE about this.Any one
out there have some thoughts about this?
DONK
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/9/2008 12:11:08 AM
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Elena4685
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I heard kids 5 year old pray prayer of salvation. I think that is too early, although I wouldn't discourage them: I just don't think they really understand then. But I believe that I got saved at 9. I think I understood everything necessary by then.
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/9/2008 2:15:35 AM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1732
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Don675
What about the age of accountability and salvation in relation to
children?I know there is nothing in the BIBLE about this.Any one
out there have some thoughts about this?
DONK
You already have the answer.
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/9/2008 2:04:55 PM
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Don675
Posts: 74
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The question of the age of accountability has not been answered.
I am talking about children one year old, two years old, etc.I have
some thoughts that at some age a person can comprehend the
gospel and know right from wrong[this would vary from person to
person thats what i am thinking].In other words they would go to
heaven because they have no understanding yet of the gospel.
On another note i know GOD hates abortion but these babies
yet in the womb have gone to heaven.
How about some good input from people on this forum about
this subject.This is a subject that is not answered in the BIBLE.
DONK
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/9/2008 7:40:49 PM
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Him4all
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From: Kansas
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Just some thoughts off the top of my head. Not sure if this first verse helps, but it does raise a question as to what it might mean.
MAT 18:10 "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.
Personally, I think that when one becomes a prodigal spirit they have turned their face from God to the world. And their spirit then needs to be 'born anew' or come alive again unto our heavenly Father.
LUK 15:24 for this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.' And they began to make merry.
His son was never 'dead' except for face to face 'fellowship' with his father.
DR
_____________________________
Doctrine learned and not lived is lost.
Eyes closed to advice may still be open to example.
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/9/2008 7:43:58 PM
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TheoJunkie
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Ben is correct... There is no mention of this (even in concept, but certainly not a particular age) in the Bible... therefore, there is none. On the contrary, the bible speaks clearly to the contrary (i.e., everyone has sinned, everyone requires salvation, and Christ is the only way).
If there was an age of accountability, God would have stated it in the bible. He did not state one, therefore, there is not one. At the VERY least, this means that we need not concern ourselves with one.
But note! The bible ALSO does not say that infants/etc are incapable of faith (like some contend).
If people would just rest that God can bring infants (etc) to faith like he can for anyone else... then we would have no need to speak of "age of accountability".
One assumption requires another. If we make no assumptions, we will have no worries (and therefore no need to make up doctrines to soothe them).
Put yet another way.... If you want to hold that every infant goes to heaven... fine. No harm in thinking that. But don't compromise the gospel for it. Hold rather, that God CAN and DOES bring even fertilized eggs by grace through faith in his Son... even if you can't picture just how that works.
He who created every human being-- even created the entire universe out of nothing-- is surely able to make them alive in Christ even before they have a synapse to think about it with or an ear to process sound waves with or an eye to read the KJV with or a mouth to tell their momma about it with.
Faith is not something done with the brain. Think about it-- what happens to your faith -- even your consciousness-- when your body dies? Nothing. So, therefore, infants (even fertilized eggs) can be brought to salvation through faith.
< Message edited by TheoJunkie -- 4/9/2008 7:57:45 PM >
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/10/2008 11:00:46 AM
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FREELUTH
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Theo you hit it on the money. I would not add anything. If God can do all the things we read about in his word. He can bring anyone any age to faith. And to think that young children are not accoutable for sin is unbiblical.
_____________________________
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness.
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/10/2008 2:29:58 PM
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RangerD
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I thought this might be a fitting place for me to dive into this forum. The way I see it, Age of Accountability sets an upper age limit to grace, not a lower age limit. Choose an age, say, 5 or 6 years old. That seems to allow for innocence up to that age and keeps the child safe from condemnation. But if you apply a patch to teaching on salvation, it is going to have a backlash somewhere else. In this case, the age of accountability bans children from grace below the age of 5 or 6 or whatever and sets an upper limit on where salvation grace can be applied. The Bible demonstrates that children can be saved by grace earlier than 5 or 6. They can be saved as babies. Does this assume innocence? No. It simply means that grace is incomprehensible to us. We only know what has been revealed to us, but grace can be applied much more than we know. I do not understand how a newborn infant can be justified, but it cannot be by innocence, it must be by grace. The Bible does not teach that babies are innocent, that is the missing equation of Age of Accountability doctrine. Therefore, grace must have wider application than what is immediately revealed in the Bible. Somehow, God can save a newborn infant. We only know he can, not how he does it, and we know it because it is told to us in the Bible that he has done it.
< Message edited by RangerD -- 4/10/2008 2:36:21 PM >
_____________________________
For the King,
Ranger
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/10/2008 3:13:07 PM
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Sammy_S
Posts: 460
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From: Brampton,Ontario
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena4685
I heard kids 5 year old pray prayer of salvation. I think that is too early, although I wouldn't discourage them: I just don't think they really understand then. But I believe that I got saved at 9. I think I understood everything necessary by then.
The problem is not that it's too early,the sinner's prayer should not be used at all.It is very unbibical and Heresy at worst.
Why is it important to know the age when children can be saved?Lets's just preach the Gospel to them and leave salvation up to God.
God's people will be saved and those that are not his will not be.Do we desire to know the "age of accountability/salvation" so we could ask them to say the sinner's prayer?
_____________________________
Christ saved you from the wrath of an almighty God. Hell is just a revelation of that. I always tell people this. God saved you from Himself, God saved you for Himself and God saved you by Himself."
Paul Washer
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/10/2008 3:35:17 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1732
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RangerD
I thought this might be a fitting place for me to dive into this forum. The way I see it, Age of Accountability sets an upper age limit to grace, not a lower age limit. Choose an age, say, 5 or 6 years old. That seems to allow for innocence up to that age and keeps the child safe from condemnation. But if you apply a patch to teaching on salvation, it is going to have a backlash somewhere else. In this case, the age of accountability bans children from grace below the age of 5 or 6 or whatever and sets an upper limit on where salvation grace can be applied. The Bible demonstrates that children can be saved by grace earlier than 5 or 6. They can be saved as babies. Does this assume innocence? No. It simply means that grace is incomprehensible to us. We only know what has been revealed to us, but grace can be applied much more than we know. I do not understand how a newborn infant can be justified, but it cannot be by innocence, it must be by grace. The Bible does not teach that babies are innocent, that is the missing equation of Age of Accountability doctrine. Therefore, grace must have wider application than what is immediately revealed in the Bible. Somehow, God can save a newborn infant. We only know he can, not how he does it, and we know it because it is told to us in the Bible that he has done it.
Welcome to the forums, Ranger, and thank you for the post. I appreciate your emphasis of God's grace.
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 1:17:04 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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The actions of God in regards to Jericho and the Flood lends itself to the fact that mankind is accountable as a whole...
John
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 12:45:23 PM
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URForgiven
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The Bible does not speak directly to this, nor does it speak directly to the 'how' of any person who is not capable of awareness.
But it does speak directly to Who our God is...and therein lies the answer.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 5:45:39 PM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2287
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Don675
What about the age of accountability and salvation in relation to
children?I know there is nothing in the BIBLE about this.Any one
out there have some thoughts about this?
DONK
Is there any point in speculating? When God says nothing, do we speak for Him? My thoughts are that God knows what He wants to do and what He will do.
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 8:14:10 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 1843
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Bible does not speak directly to this, nor does it speak directly to the 'how' of any person who is not capable of awareness.
But it does speak directly to Who our God is...and therein lies the answer.
Our God is the God that flooded the world and stuffed the Ark full of animals and just eight people...
John
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 8:38:42 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 365
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Bible does not speak directly to this, nor does it speak directly to the 'how' of any person who is not capable of awareness.
But it does speak directly to Who our God is...and therein lies the answer.
Our God is the God that flooded the world and stuffed the Ark full of animals and just eight people...
John
Thankfully, He found eight...
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 8:52:19 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Bible does not speak directly to this, nor does it speak directly to the 'how' of any person who is not capable of awareness.
But it does speak directly to Who our God is...and therein lies the answer.
Our God is the God that flooded the world and stuffed the Ark full of animals and just eight people...
John
Thankfully, He found eight...
Actually it was only really one, Noah... His family was saved due in part to his faith... Noah was one of the many examples of the comming Savior...
Of course this doesn't bode well for those not on the Ark...
John
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/17/2008 8:58:27 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 365
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
The Bible does not speak directly to this, nor does it speak directly to the 'how' of any person who is not capable of awareness.
But it does speak directly to Who our God is...and therein lies the answer.
Our God is the God that flooded the world and stuffed the Ark full of animals and just eight people...
John
Thankfully, He found eight...
Actually it was only really one, Noah... His family was saved due in part to his faith... Noah was one of the many examples of the comming Savior...
Of course this doesn't bode well for those not on the Ark...
John
It never does bode well for those who choose their own way.
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/19/2008 4:05:15 PM
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terryjohn
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Accountability is interesting as scripture shows us that God did set about making sure that even women and children suffered for the sins of men. That is the children were to be put to death with their parents; De 2:34 - At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them--men, women and children. We left no survivors. This suggests that if the parents have no hope what chance will the children have?
Nevertheless, salvation is not about theology or being able to say any prayer it is about innocence for as it is said Mt 18:3 - "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Here scripture tells us our own faith or lack of faith does have a bearing on the faith of our children and if we are cursed then we do pass it on to subsequent generations.
John 17:17-19
17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth. 18 As you sent me into the world, I have sent them into the world. 19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified.
1 Corinthians 7:10-14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
There is then a time in a childs life when they do begin to make their own decisions but this begins later rather than sooner.
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/19/2008 5:07:01 PM
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LCannon
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From: Lebanon, OR
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Accountability is less about understanding(there's always more to understand/obey/serve) then one's responsibility to the knowledge already revealed. 1 Corinthians 13:9-"For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways."
_____________________________
"[Prayer power] hasn't never been taxed to[His]full capacity.
His standing challenge, 'Call on Me and I will answer with great and mighty
things which thou can't imagine." Hudson Tayor
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 4/21/2008 6:47:13 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3590
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
Why is it important to know the age when children can be saved?Lets's just preach the Gospel to them and leave salvation up to God. People think it important so they can know who to preach the gospel to.
A strict reading of scripture would lead to the conclusion that infants and children who die all go to hell. (hence the RCC insistance on infant baptism and opposition to abortion).
However we also know of God's mercy and lovingkindness.
Bottom line: we do not know.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 5/2/2008 3:26:32 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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I had this same discussion with some friends and we only found a couple of places that even talk about it. If you remember when David and Bathsheeba had their affair and bore a child God told David he was going to kill him. Well David fasted, prayed, wore sackcloth etc until his child died. He then stopped and his servant asked him why did you stop, he said because I cant bring him back but I will go to him one day. That is pretty much the only place other than the Mathew 18:10 which is kinda unclear on its meaning.
_____________________________
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. -C.S. Lewis
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 5/3/2008 1:39:38 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 1843
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I had this same discussion with some friends and we only found a couple of places that even talk about it. If you remember when David and Bathsheeba had their affair and bore a child God told David he was going to kill him. Well David fasted, prayed, wore sackcloth etc until his child died. He then stopped and his servant asked him why did you stop, he said because I cant bring him back but I will go to him one day. That is pretty much the only place other than the Mathew 18:10 which is kinda unclear on its meaning.
Yes like his child, David will pass away...
John
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RE: The age of accountability/salvation - 5/8/2008 10:40:57 AM
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Matt27
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As a Mormon we had a definite answer on the salvation of little children: 8 years old.
At 8 years old a child was to be baptized. It was believed that at 8 the child has a basic understanding of right and wrong, sin and consequence. To Mormons if a child died before their 8th birthday they were already saved even if they were raised Muslims, Buddhists, or just had never heard the name Jesus Christ before.
Though I am not Mormon anymore that doesn't mean I entirely disagree with that assumption now. If a child is too young to understand the concept of God, sin, or salvation then how can that child he held accountable before God? Christianity is not so simple a concept: it's a difficult path because it requires its followers to walk a higher path than those who are worldly, or unsaved. Christianity is a "straight and narrow path". While our faith in Christ is what saves us that doesn't give us license to keep sinning. Can a small child understand all of this?
But I also consider original sin: we are born sinners who deserve Hell. The Bible doesn't elaborate on the salvation of little children so the issue is left open to different interpretations. When I was a baby someone told my mother that I was going to go to Hell because I was unbaptized. Mormons and many Protestant denominations teach the instant salvation of little children and possibly the mentally handicapped.
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