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Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 12:40:25 PM
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d1sturbanc3
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Just a question that came up... I'm from a southern baptist background, but I got convinced into reformed theology couple of years ago. I'm attend a PCA church, but I also do home bible study with a non-denominational church. They are going to hold communion at this person's home. I don't normal have problems taking communion in a Anglican church when the sacraments are administrated by an ordain minster. But this communion is at a person's home and not administrated by ordained minister and I'm wondering if I should abstain. If I do, how should I explain it to my group?
Talking with my PCA pastor, he suggested that he wouldn't take communion in that situation. He claims that the sacraments have to be guarded by the ordained teaching elders/ministers for it to proper. From my southern baptist background, I was taught that we are all ministers. From that point of view, I don't see how someone who has the spiritual gift of ministry who is not ordained can not administrate communion. Thoughts?
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 2:04:37 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
I don't see how someone who has the spiritual gift of ministry who is not ordained can not administrate communion.
If one has that gift, he needs to be ordained to that role. Now, different denominations see ordination and communion through differing lens, Not a show stopper. In terms of taking communion with your small group, if you choose not to participate be able to explain your views of communion.
< Message edited by colliefan -- 6/7/2008 2:11:58 PM >
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 2:20:17 PM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d1sturbanc3
Just a question that came up... I'm from a southern baptist background, but I got convinced into reformed theology couple of years ago. I'm attend a PCA church, but I also do home bible study with a non-denominational church. They are going to hold communion at this person's home. I don't normal have problems taking communion in a Anglican church when the sacraments are administrated by an ordain minster. But this communion is at a person's home and not administrated by ordained minister and I'm wondering if I should abstain. If I do, how should I explain it to my group?
Talking with my PCA pastor, he suggested that he wouldn't take communion in that situation. He claims that the sacraments have to be guarded by the ordained teaching elders/ministers for it to proper. From my southern baptist background, I was taught that we are all ministers. From that point of view, I don't see how someone who has the spiritual gift of ministry who is not ordained can not administrate communion. Thoughts?
drfuss: It sounds like you have already decided that an ordained minister or special leader should be the only one leading commumion. If so, you should follow your convictions on this matter even though they are based only on church tradition.
I would have no problem taking communion with only laymen being present. Jesus said "do this in rememberance of Me"; He did not indicate anything about any type of leader being present. Also, "where two are three are gathered together in My name, there I am in the mist".
Ordination of ministers is a man made designation by an organization indicating that they believe the one ordained is a spiritual leader or has a ministry. If an ordained person is present, he would probably lead the communion. But I don't think it is necessary
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 2:25:41 PM
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ta_mosquito
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This sounds like an eating meat situation to me. If your conscience is bothered by it, then abstain. If you're OK with it but you know someone else there may stumble in their faith because of it, then abstain. If you all are OK with it, then go for it.
_____________________________
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"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 2:38:03 PM
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rcjames
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Administate communion?
I do not find any qualififacation for this "Position" or thet there is even a position for this;
Christ said;
(Luk 22:19) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
He just said do it, not requirements for administration, and Paul when referring to this said;
(1Co 11:24) And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Not a hint about an adminstrator, just do it.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 3:08:06 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
1 Cor 11:27 - 32 (ESV) 27Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.£ 31But if we judged£ ourselves truly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged by the Lord, we are disciplined£ so that we may not be condemned along with the world.
This is why some demoninations have qualifiers on whom may preside over comminion and the differing views are why we have denominations.
Some see it as the actual body and blood. Some see it as the real presence. And some see it as just symbolic. One must participate as directed by the Lord.
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 3:12:55 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Not a hint about an adminstrator, just do it
So, by your agruement, anyone can conduct a marriage cermony?
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 3:21:50 PM
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JesKlu
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Here are my beliefs about Communion and who should administer it.
Augsburg Confession (Philip Melancthon)
Article X: Of the Lord's Supper.
1] Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed 2] to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.
The Large Catechism (Martin Luther)
8] Now, what is the Sacrament of the Altar?
Answer: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in and under the bread and wine which we Christians are commanded by the Word of Christ to eat and to drink. 9] And as we have said of Baptism that it is not simple water, so here also we say the Sacrament is bread and wine, but not mere bread and wine, such as are ordinarily served at the table, but bread and wine comprehended in, and connected with, the Word of God.
http://www.bookofconcord.com/largecatechism/7_sacrament.html
Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order. (Philip Melancthon)
Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.
http://www.bookofconcord.com/augsburgconfession.html
They means the Lutherans who teach this.
About your situation, I would go with the guidance of your pastor.
Soli Deo Gloria!
(To God Alone Be the Glory)
Jessica
< Message edited by JesKlu -- 6/7/2008 3:29:05 PM >
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 3:31:35 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
Not a hint about an adminstrator, just do it
So, by your agruement, anyone can conduct a marriage cermony?
Well acutally the marriage ceremony comes under State laws and communion does not.
Colliefan, those groups that demand only certian folks administer communion; what Scripture do they use for justification of such.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 3:33:03 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JesKlu
Here are my beliefs about Communion and who should administer it.
Augsburg Confession (Philip Melancthon)
Article X: Of the Lord's Supper.
1] Of the Supper of the Lord they teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly present, and are distributed 2] to those who eat the Supper of the Lord; and they reject those that teach otherwise.
The Large Catechism (Martin Luther)
8] Now, what is the Sacrament of the Altar?
Answer: It is the true body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, in and under the bread and wine which we Christians are commanded by the Word of Christ to eat and to drink. 9] And as we have said of Baptism that it is not simple water, so here also we say the Sacrament is bread and wine, but not mere bread and wine, such as are ordinarily served at the table, but bread and wine comprehended in, and connected with, the Word of God.
http://www.bookofconcord.com/largecatechism/7_sacrament.html
Article XIV: Of Ecclesiastical Order. (Philip Melancthon)
Of Ecclesiastical Order they teach that no one should publicly teach in the Church or administer the Sacraments unless he be regularly called.
http://www.bookofconcord.com/augsburgconfession.html
They means the Lutherans who teach this.
About your situation, I would go with the guidance of your pastor.
Soli Deo Gloria!
(To God Alone Be the Glory)
Jessica
Any Scripture to support the above suppositions?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 3:52:38 PM
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JesKlu
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1 Corinthians 10
16 The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?
Clearly the Apostle is connecting the bread to the body of Christ and the wine to the blood of Christ. So, receiving communion is more than just mere bread and wine.
1 Corinthians 11:27-29
23For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
We Lutherans take the words of Christ at face value. We do not reason the text away, or put something into the text that is not there. Christ says, 'this is my body', 'this is my blood.' We take the words of Christ literally.
27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a person examine himself, then, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment on himself.
Apparently you can sin against the Lord's Supper. If you can sin against it, and eat and drink judgement on yourself, it is more than just mere bread and wine. The true body and blood of Christ are truly received and distributed along with the bread and wine. It seems like Jesus is truly bodily present.
About only ministers distributing it, it is recommended to keep order in the church, lest people see no need for going to Church anymore.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Jessica
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 5:03:36 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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What about a husband and wife that take communion at home? Is the husband forbidden to administer communion to his wife 
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 5:10:00 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
Colliefan, those groups that demand only certian folks administer communion; what Scripture do they use for justification of such.
What she quoted regarding the body/blood/
quote:
Well acutally the marriage ceremony comes under State laws and communion does not.
One could go and get married by a justice of the peace or a magistrate and have a cermony presided over by one who is not an ordianed minister?
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 5:14:29 PM
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d1sturbanc3
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quote:
1It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Ephesians 4
There are some who are called to pastor. Now I don't believe what Christ literal mean that body and wine when he said that. It's symbolic, but the act of communion is holy. The reason which it's not possible for the elements to become blood and body, is because of the Christ's 2 nature. The reasoning comes from this: the God nature and the human nature. The human nature simply cannot allow all his physical body to broken into so many pieces for people to consume. The human nature is constrained by our physics and limitation (shown as Jesus gotten physically tired)
In order for it to be holy those who are called to "shepard his flock" must be present so that this warning is headed.
quote:
27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against[g] the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ,[h] you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died. 1 Corinthians 11
There is a warning about the sacred and taking of the communion. If there is a warning, that mean that whoever is pastor and Shepard of the church must be present to give that warning. I can't remember what chapter, but the bible states that people have died because they did not head the warning when taking of the elements. Therefore, the body including the ordain pastor must be present to preside/guard over the communion.
That's the argument for it. I presented an argument against having an ordain pastor presided over communion in my first message. I don't know I can see it both ways.
Sorry for misunderstanding, but I'm not decided on this. I'll probably take it just so not to offend my friends. But I among my friends feel like there is an office in the church, and the teaching elder should preside over the communion.
< Message edited by d1sturbanc3 -- 6/7/2008 5:49:04 PM >
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 6:06:59 PM
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JesKlu
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d1sturbanc3
quote:
1It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Ephesians 4
There are some who are called to pastor. Now I don't believe what Christ literal mean that body and wine when he said that. It's symbolic, but the act of communion is holy. The reason which it's not possible for the elements to become blood and body, is because of the Christ's 2 nature. The reasoning comes from this: the God nature and the human nature. The human nature simply cannot allow all his physical body to broken into so many pieces for people to consume. The human nature is constrained by our physics and limitation (shown as Jesus gotten physically tired)
In order for it to be holy those who are called to "shepard his flock" must be present so that this warning is headed.
quote:
27 So anyone who eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord unworthily is guilty of sinning against[g] the body and blood of the Lord. 28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup. 29 For if you eat the bread or drink the cup without honoring the body of Christ,[h] you are eating and drinking God’s judgment upon yourself. 30 That is why many of you are weak and sick and some have even died. 1 Corinthians 11
There is a warning about the sacred and taking of the communion. If there is a warning, that mean that whoever is pastor and Shepard of the church must be present to give that warning. I can't remember what chapter, but the bible states that people have died because they did not head the warning when taking of the elements. Therefore, the body including the ordain pastor must be present to preside/guard over the communion.
That's the argument for it. I presented an argument against having an ordain pastor presided over communion in my first message. I don't know I can see it both ways.
Sorry for misunderstanding, but I'm not decided on this. I'll probably take it just so not to offend my friends. But I among my friends feel like there is an office in the church, and the teaching elder should preside over the communion.
What is symbolic? Christ literally said, "This is my body, this is my blood." I take the words of Christ at face value (literally). Christ is Omnipresent. To say He is not present everywhere and cannot be Bodily present in communion, is to deny Jesus' divinity.
John 6
53So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
1 Corinthians 11
23For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25In the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
Soli Deo Gloria!
Jessica
_____________________________
And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 7:06:38 PM
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rcjames
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Does anyone have Scripture as to who may administerate communion?
Can one take communion by themselves without someone admisisterating it to them?
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 8:04:12 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Does anyone have Scripture as to who may administerate communion?
Considering there isn't any... I doubt it. ; )
Every Christian has the ability to administer communion. Christ, Paul, or any other New Testament speaker/writer say nothing on the "who" when it comes to administering communion, except that it should be a Christian (and I believe even that is inferred, in that only the Christian should participate in communion).
I agree with ta_mosquito. Let your conscience be your guide. There is no mandate from God one way or the other.
quote:
Can one take communion by themselves without someone admisisterating it to them?
I would say no, to the extent that I don't think communion should ever be something done alone. I see it as a community event (hence - communion, heh) to be celebrated with the Church (be that a local congregation, or just two or three fellow believers).
However, I would say that there doesn't necessarily have to be someone who "administers" it. I have taken part in a few communion services where it was one large loaf of bread that everyone came up and took a piece of, and one large container of liquid that everyone took their drink from, with nobody really "in charge" of the whole thing. Someone prayed before each part, but it was just a member of the group, not an ordained anyone.
_____________________________
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 8:32:06 PM
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BookerG
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The churches that limit administration to ordained ministers are most likely to be those that believe in transubstantiation, thinking that only the church, through its priests, has the power to effect the transformation, or those that are very heirarchical and do not want to endorse anything that would diminish the authority of the higher ups, or maybe some that simply don't like any change at all, and "we've never done it before" is all the reason they need.
I agree that communion is a community event, intended not only to proclaim the Lord's death but also to express the oneness of the body of Christ, so I don't think someone alone should simply give himself communion. "Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all partake of the one loaf." I Cor. 10:17
Scriptures have no directives here, but as a "public" ministry it's fitting that it should be done by someone who has been publicly called to serve God's people in this way. A congregation may call and authorize any person to do so, and can even issue limited calls, in which the only task they might ask of a person is to bring communion to shut-ins, or an informal call in which a pastor might, on behalf of the congregation, ask someone to fill in for him on a one time basis. The power or authority to perform this public service belongs to the whole church, but is most properly administered by those the church has asked to serve in this way.
And although there is no Scriptural command in this regards, in my church body the ministers never commune themselves but have another minister or an elder offer them communion at the end of the service. Part of the reason is to remind you that it is something given, not something taken (that's also why I prefer it when the pastor puts the wafer in my mouth instead of my hand; I just want to receive, to be fed, not to feed myself, with this precious gift).
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 9:31:22 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
I'll probably take it just so not to offend my friends. But I among my friends feel like there is an office in the church, and the teaching elder should preside over the communion.
Wise move. Just tell you friends what you believe about communion and why you are partipating with them.
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/7/2008 9:41:11 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
What about a husband and wife that take communion at home? Is the husband forbidden to administer communion to his wife
Can one take communion by themselves without someone admisisterating it to them?
I would say that an individual shouldn't because communion is about community. Because the husband/wife is a spiritual bond, I would say that would be permissable. Also, the husband is the priest of the home.
quote:
The churches that limit administration to ordained ministers are most likely to be those that believe in transubstantiation,
No. Anglican parishes limit the eucharist to ordained priests and the 39 Articles deny transubstationation. They believe in the Holy Presence,
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/8/2008 2:29:34 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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The churches have tried to fancy-up the simple idea of the Passover seder, dress it in gold and ceremony, turn it into a mystery, and make it exclusive. That simply is not biblical; however, it is traditional. If added tradition is more important that the Word, well, there you have it.
It was not intended to have any mystery beyond the concept that when Messiah did it the final time on earth, He informed the people that the seder was all about Him. But from its concept -- and it was G-d's concept -- it was about community. The question that must be asked, then, is what is community? Community cannot be practiced alone. One cannot rightfully and biblically commune with oneself.
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"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/8/2008 3:30:19 PM
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d1sturbanc3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JesKlu
What is symbolic? Christ literally said, "This is my body, this is my blood." I take the words of Christ at face value (literally). Christ is Omnipresent. To say He is not present everywhere and cannot be Bodily present in communion, is to deny Jesus' divinity.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Jessica
I shouldn't debate this in this thread, but to accept the conversion of wine to blood and bread to body is the rejection of the human nature of Christ. Christ is defined by the two natures, divine and human. We all agree he was devine, but he was fully human too. It's humanly impossible for a body and blood to be split up that way.
quote:
The churches that limit administration to ordained ministers are most likely to be those that believe in transubstantiation, thinking that only the church, through its priests, has the power to effect the transformation, or those that are very heirarchical and do not want to endorse anything that would diminish the authority of the higher ups, or maybe some that simply don't like any change at all, and "we've never done it before" is all the reason they need.
No.. the church and domination which I belong to strongly oppose that view. But we believe that communion is holy is should be performed under a direction of an ordain persist and the people who eat of it should be member eg baptized
quote:
The churches have tried to fancy-up the simple idea of the Passover seder, dress it in gold and ceremony, turn it into a mystery, and make it exclusive. That simply is not biblical; however, it is traditional. .
It is biblical that only confessing believers should be allowed at the table. When Jesus did the last supper her reserved it for the apostles.
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/8/2008 3:36:33 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
While I understand that one's answer to this question will necessarily come from what one believes Communion to be, please do not debate your beliefs in this thread. HERE is the thread for that.
Thanks!
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/8/2008 4:44:55 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5245
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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Could someone give me some Scripture, any Scripture, or a peice of Scripture that delegates the administration of communion to any particular people, office, or delagate.
If not; then nuff said.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who can administrate communion - 6/8/2008 7:25:20 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3490
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Could someone give me some Scripture, any Scripture, or a peice of Scripture that delegates the administration of communion to any particular people, office, or delagate.
If not; then nuff said.
Thanks
RC
1 Hezekiah 3:12b - 14
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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