|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Worship Statues? - 4/11/2005 1:59:58 PM
|
|
|
Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7452
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
|
This topic is neverending. So as to help keep things from constantly being repeated or asked we've decided to create a perpetual discussion on the topic.
Some contend that catholics worship statues.
Discuss the differences in this doctrine here.
_____________________________
Fritz
Community Manager
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Do you tweet? Follow me: Click Here
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/12/2005 12:12:54 AM
|
|
|
S.Benedict
Posts: 29
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Do Catholics Worship Statues?
"Catholics worship statues!" People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Ex. 20:4–5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex. 32:31).
It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it. But calling Catholics idolaters because they have images of Christ and the saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses (both good and bad) of statues.
Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement, "God has forbidden the use of images in worship" (281). Yet if people were to "search the scriptures" (cf. John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues. Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious contexts!
God Said To Make Them
People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20).
David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.
Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."
The Religious Uses of Images
During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9).
One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.
Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.
If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then by using these "graven" images, they would be practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these situations. God forbids the worship of images as gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs, paintings, and all similar things would be banned. But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God does not even forbid the ritual use of religious images.
It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god (whom they named "Nehushtan"), the righteous king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4).
What About Bowing?
Sometimes anti-Catholics cite Deuteronomy 5:9, where God said concerning idols, "You shall not bow down to them." Since many Catholics sometimes bow or kneel in front of statues of Jesus and the saints, anti-Catholics confuse the legitimate veneration of a sacred image with the sin of idolatry.
Though bowing can be used as a posture in worship, not all bowing is worship. In Japan, people show respect by bowing in greeting (the equivalent of the Western handshake). Similarly, a person can kneel before a king without worshipping him as a god. In the same way, a Catholic who may kneel in front of a statue while praying isn’t worshipping the statue or even praying to it, any more than the Protestant who kneels with a Bible in his hands when praying is worshipping the Bible or praying to it.
Hiding the Second Commandment?
Another charge sometimes made by Protestants is that the Catholic Church "hides" the second commandment. This is because in Catholic catechisms, the first commandment is often listed as "You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3), and the second is listed as "You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain." (Ex. 20:7). From this, it is argued that Catholics have deleted the prohibition of idolatry to justify their use of religious statues. But this is false. Catholics simply group the commandments differently from most Protestants.
In Exodus 20:2–17, which gives the Ten Commandments, there are actually fourteen imperative statements. To arrive at Ten Commandments, some statements have to be grouped together, and there is more than one way of doing this. Since, in the ancient world, polytheism and idolatry were always united—idolatry being the outward expression of polytheism—the historic Jewish numbering of the Ten Commandments has always grouped together the imperatives "You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3) and "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). The historic Catholic numbering follows the Jewish numbering on this point, as does the historic Lutheran numbering. Martin Luther recognized that the imperatives against polytheism and idolatry are two parts of a single command.
Jews and Christians abbreviate the commandments so that they can be remembered using a summary, ten-point formula. For example, Jews, Catholics, and Protestants typically summarize the Sabbath commandment as, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy," though the commandment’s actual text takes four verses (Ex. 20:8–11).
When the prohibition of polytheism/idolatry is summarized, Jews, Catholics, and Lutherans abbreviate it as "You shall have no other gods before me." This is no attempt to "hide" the idolatry prohibition (Jews and Lutherans don’t even use statues of saints and angels). It is to make learning the Ten Commandments easier.
The Catholic Church is not dogmatic about how the Ten Commandments are to be numbered, however. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, "The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confession. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities" (CCC 2066).
The Form of God?
Some anti-Catholics appeal to Deuteronomy 4:15–18 in their attack on religious statues: "[S]ince you saw no form on the day that the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, beware lest you act corruptly by making a graven image for yourselves, in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the air, the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water under the earth."
We’ve already shown that God doesn’t prohibit the making of statues or images of various creatures for religious purposes (cf. 1 Kgs. 6:29–32, 8:6–66; 2 Chr. 3:7–14). But what about statues or images that represent God? Many Protestants would say that’s wrong because Deuteronomy 4 says the Israelites did not see God under any form when he made the covenant with them, therefore we should not make symbolic representations of God either. But does Deuteronomy 4 forbid such representations?
The Answer Is No
Early in its history, Israel was forbidden to make any depictions of God because he had not revealed himself in a visible form. Given the pagan culture surrounding them, the Israelites might have been tempted to worship God in the form of an animal or some natural object (e.g., a bull or the sun).
But later God did reveal himself under visible forms, such as in Daniel 7:9: "As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was Ancient of Days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool; his throne was fiery flames, its wheels were burning fire." Protestants make depictions of the Father under this form when they do illustrations of Old Testament prophecies.
The Holy Spirit revealed himself under at least two visible forms—that of a dove, at the baptism of Jesus (Matt. 3:16; Mark 1:10; Luke 3:22; John 1:32), and as tongues of fire, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1–4). Protestants use these images when drawing or painting these biblical episodes and when they wear Holy Spirit lapel pins or place dove emblems on their cars.
But, more important, in the Incarnation of Christ his Son, God showed mankind an icon of himself. Paul said, "He is the image (Greek: ikon) of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." Christ is the tangible, divine "icon" of the unseen, infinite God.
We read that when the magi were "going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshipped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold, frankincense, and myrrh" (Matt. 2:11). Though God did not reveal a form for himself on Mount Horeb, he did reveal one in the house in Bethlehem.
The bottom line is, when God made the New Covenant with us, he did reveal himself under a visible form in Jesus Christ. For that reason, we can make representations of God in Christ. Even Protestants use all sorts of religious images: Pictures of Jesus and other biblical persons appear on a myriad of Bibles, picture books, T-shirts, jewelry, bumper stickers, greeting cards, compact discs, and manger scenes. Christ is even symbolically represented through the Icthus or "fish emblem."
Common sense tells us that, since God has revealed himself in various images, most especially in the incarnate Jesus Christ, it’s not wrong for us to use images of these forms to deepen our knowledge and love of God. That’s why God revealed himself in these visible forms, and that’s why statues and pictures are made of them.
Idolatry Condemned by the Church
Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The early Church Fathers warn against this sin, and Church councils also dealt with the issue.
The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with the question of the religious use of images and icons, said, "[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from the wooden images of satanic idols."
The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374).
"Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God’" (CCC 2114).
The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/12/2005 11:49:12 AM
|
|
|
yeshua_seven
Posts: 10
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Brooklyn Park, Minnesota, USA
Status: offline
|
Excellent post above. Catholics do not worship statues.
_____________________________
Peace and grace to you all from God our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/12/2005 4:24:19 PM
|
|
|
LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1507
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Do Catholics Worship Statues?
"Catholics worship statues!" People still make this ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in their churches, goes the accusation, they are violating God’s commandment: "
You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them"
(Ex. 20:4–5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin; they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex. 32:31).
Greetings,
They made a God of Gold not Gods of Gold.
The God of Gold (calf) represented a carnal type of salvation for them.
Yet Gods could arise from each individual and is why we should not make them for ourselves.
The God of Gold (calf) represented salvation to them
The Bible also uses many phrases such as in Ex 20:4-5 “For Themselves” And as is mentioned as the Lord God always frowns upon such.
In the beginning God created, yet he formed man and beasts out of that, which was created. Therefore everything belongs to God, that which has already been made, and which is to be made.
[q] God Said To Make Them
People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels];
The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18-20).[/q]
ETC
This is all summed up in John 5
“You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his form
John 5:36 But I have a greater witness than John's; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish--the very works that I do--bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. 41 I do not receive honor from men.
Jesus is making a clear analogy that in as much they did not believe in Him as they “could not” believe
38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe.
All the images or Statues could not save them, nor bring conviction, for the Law was for the knowledge or head knowledge, whereas conviction has to come form the heart.
John 5:41 I do not receive honor from men.
And was true then as it is true now.
In other words as mentioned in verse 41, Jesus honor comes from above, not from men.
Yet in the verses below it is clear that to whom Jesus is speaking to, or those who have what is written or pictures and statues and likeness were to teach “The Law” before Christ the words that Jesus speaks according to John 5:47
The Law does not convict, pictured as the fiery serpent etc the Law was the picture of what we could not keep.
45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you--Moses, in whom you trust.
46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?"
As is mentioned in Ex 20 “you shall not bow down to them and serve them”
The separation of the pictures and statues or those things that could not save you, are simply points of contact, and this was explained to Nicodemus explaining the Spirit and separating the belief in God and the Law.
John 3:14 14 “And” as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him (God) should not perish but have eternal life. Since the pictures and the statues represented what we could not keep therefore we that teaching were already condemned.
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him (Jesus) should not perish but have everlasting life.
So one can gazed at this picture and see that it is not God that will give us everlasting life, God offers eternal life.
“BUT” whoever believes in Jesus “should” not perish” this means that “all” are going to perish under a belief or all who hold that faith, that the (fiery serpents) and or pictures, Golden Calf’s or (Statues) in any likeness thereof will save or assist in salvation.
“You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them"
IMHO The Lord God says clearly “You” You shall not.
So if You = we, or for themselves “For Themselves” then it is quite clear that there is a violation of a point of contact “Thou Shall Not”, so by making it as such for ourselves, makes it susceptible to Satanic activity.
God said to Moses to make the tabernacle “according to what was “shown” on the mountain of God,
Ex 25:40
And see to it that you make them according to the pattern which was shown you on the mountain.
This was not given to him in the likeness of men. (Golden Calf) it was given to him by the Spirit,
The manifestation of those things according to the pattern shown to Moses is that manifestation of the Spirit or things unseen on earth. On earth as it is in heaven. Which simply means that we do not worship the things that are seen but worship the things that are unseen on earth
John 5:44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?
IMHO I do not see the Spiritual significance in the “veneration” of Saints according to the CC beliefs, both dead or alive, and the representations of such to explain what the Lord Jesus has already gave to us and that is his Holy Spirit.
I do not believe we will see in heaven images or the worship thereof of men lining the interior and exterior, period
Loyal Gypsy
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/12/2005 4:52:55 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/12/2005 4:28:01 PM
|
|
|
S.Benedict
Posts: 29
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Sorry about that, i in no way meant it to seem that they were one and the same. However, those beliefs are widely held by Protestants,and in turn by both Protestants and Anti-Catholics alike. Sorry for the confusion.
_____________________________
I am already saved, but I’m also being saved, and I have the hope that I will be saved. Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling, with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/13/2005 1:50:15 PM
|
|
|
GoodME
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Maybe its time that we stopped seeing people by the denominations that we label each other with, if we recognised each other by the Christ within us then we just see Christians....not Catholics and protestants.
If I may volunteer this - Roman Ctaholics are not supposed to see people as "denominations", only those that are in full communion with the ROman Catholic Church ans those who are not.
Thus, the practice of Faith is a sliding scale of "shades of gray" from "none" to "full".
And - most important - the test of any practice of Faith should be the fruits it produces from the Faithful to their surroundings.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 8:16:03 AM
|
|
|
Les
Posts: 55
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GoodME
quote:
Maybe its time that we stopped seeing people by the denominations that we label each other with, if we recognised each other by the Christ within us then we just see Christians....not Catholics and protestants.
If I may volunteer this - Roman Ctaholics are not supposed to see people as "denominations", only those that are in full communion with the ROman Catholic Church ans those who are not.
Thus, the practice of Faith is a sliding scale of "shades of gray" from "none" to "full".
And - most important - the test of any practice of Faith should be the fruits it produces from the Faithful to their surroundings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then GoodME why can we not just see Christians and forget about Catholics and Protestants?.............. two people in full communion with Christ , will always be in communion with each other no matter what church they worship at.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 9:56:49 AM
|
|
|
SaintJVMan
Posts: 73
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Les
Hi there SaintJVMan, good to see you again.
Likewise.
You said.....Very true, but you have to admit that a number of protestants not only are anti-Catholic but make their living as an anti-Catholic.
Maybe its time that we stopped seeing people by the denominations that we label each other with, if we recognised each other by the Christ within us then we just see Christians....not Catholics and protestants.
I believe that from both sides of the discussion some can be found to be worshipping a statue...a book...an object, its how they see that thing that matters. I often look out my window when praying and look at the park and the trees there, somehow it focuses my worship and my heart towards my God. I see HIM in His creation. Do I worship the trees then? Definately NOT! I worship the God that created them. I wear a gold cross on a chain around my neck, do I worship that? NO but it does help me remember and contemplate the reason I wear it....I remember what Jesus went through on that cross and why HE did.
I think we need to be careful that we dont always see something that is not there when we say someone is worshiping a statue. Yes, I do believe that for some they worship statues or objects......but that is not confined to just Catholics.
A very good post. Once again it’s nice to see you here. God Bless
Les
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 10:00:56 AM
|
|
|
SaintJVMan
Posts: 73
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Les
quote:
ORIGINAL: GoodME
quote:
Maybe its time that we stopped seeing people by the denominations that we label each other with, if we recognised each other by the Christ within us then we just see Christians....not Catholics and protestants.
If I may volunteer this - Roman Ctaholics are not supposed to see people as "denominations", only those that are in full communion with the ROman Catholic Church ans those who are not.
Thus, the practice of Faith is a sliding scale of "shades of gray" from "none" to "full".
And - most important - the test of any practice of Faith should be the fruits it produces from the Faithful to their surroundings.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then GoodME why can we not just see Christians and forget about Catholics and Protestants?.............. two people in full communion with Christ , will always be in communion with each other no matter what church they worship at.
The issue comes down to love, as a Catholic I believe that every church and or religion has at least some of the Truth some have more and some have less but all have some. Further I believe that the Catholic Church founded by Christ has the fullness of Truth in this way I can desire in love that we obey Christ’s prayer for unity, without denying that those whom I speak with share in the Truth, if not the fullness thereof.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 12:20:56 PM
|
|
|
GoodME
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: sadiebelle
GoodMe, I've seen you write this "scale" system before. Are you at all concerned with the fact that your church, in a way, forces/requires you to make judgements of people (denominations)?? Are you saying that denominations are in varying stages of apostacy?
Actually - what I am saying is that you may determine the relative "apostacy" of ANY Faithful of ANY denomination by how strong and true their Faith is, by how much they hope and desire to be with God and live in relationship with Him as exampled by Jesus in the fullness instructed by Church, and by how much love of neighbor they show in interaction with the people around them.
This is the only way I believe I may evaluate anyone's Christian Faith.
You can have the Bible memorized cover to cover, but if your reaction to those around you is hit them over the head with it, then we may all make a determination about the efficacy of that Faith practice.
For those not in full communion with the Roman Catholic Church who seem to demonstrate a wonderful practice of Christianity - I simply wonder how much more deeper and bountiful that practice would be if they WERE in full communion with the Church. I have many friends and aquaintences (especially in my part of the country, where Catholics are in the vast minority) who are not Catholic - and they somehow manage to hang out with me, as well.
God is the one who sorts us out in the end. He is the only one properly qualified for that task. The rest of us merely render opinions. I hold the hope that the "Good Muslim", the "Good Hindu", the "Good atheist" get their "good" from God - and that given that Grace that God may also someday Grace them with the knowledge of Jesus - the example of their "good". I find many make hasty judgements in this area, and I try to not fall into that trap.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 12:34:31 PM
|
|
|
sdaw
Posts: 877
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Dear GoodMe,
We have not the hope, but the certainty that all goodness comes from God. Even for those who do not know Christ, we have the hope that God will bring to completion the good work He has begun in them.
Eternal rest grant onto him, O Lord!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 2:34:47 PM
|
|
|
S.Benedict
Posts: 29
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Good Post GoodMe.
_____________________________
I am already saved, but I’m also being saved, and I have the hope that I will be saved. Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling, with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 4:14:51 PM
|
|
|
GoodME
Posts: 120
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: sadiebelleWhile I believe you have the right attitude about it. I think that many Catholics could take that as a lisence to pass judgement or "feel sorry" for people who are Christians and not "Catholic". Just as this liberty is taken by non-Catholics towards Catholics. I can't even post to some of the threads on this site openly - my "doctrine" is banned. You might even find Catholic family members praying for their protestant relatives. If I believed that you believed that I was wrong about Faith, I would want your prayers to God that He may allow me to know the truth, whatever that winds up being - and that whatever it is, its the same for both of us. I understand your perception that this type of thing is condescending (the wording of any particular prayer could have that slant), but you could equally make the case that anyone that offers prayers on your behalf loves you and cares for you and wants the best for you. I find that to be just short of insulting. While people's walk might give you a sign that they are living like they have communion with God, they might not be a believer at all. No Faith practice of any kind is immune to this. They might just be putting on a show. I think it's dangerous territory to be judging one another based on an outward showing of "good works". That's all. We have no idea of the hearts of men.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Worship Statues? - 4/14/2005 4:30:13 PM
|
|
|
sadiebelle
Posts: 247
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Northern California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: GoodME
quote:
ORIGINAL: sadiebelleWhile I believe you have the right attitude about it. I think that many Catholics could take that as a lisence to pass judgement or "feel sorry" for people who are Christians and not "Catholic". Just as this liberty is taken by non-Catholics towards Catholics. I can't even post to some of the threads on this site openly - my "doctrine" is banned. That would prove to be very frustrating, I can imagine. I'm sure if I went on a Catholic forum, I would be banned for some of my "doctrine" too. I guess the difference is: Protestants are not claiming to be the true church and we are accepting of Catholics at our services and welcome them to partake in our communion and whatnot. You might even find Catholic family members praying for their protestant relatives. If I believed that you believed that I was wrong about Faith, I would want your prayers to God that He may allow me to know the truth, whatever that winds up being - and that whatever it is, its the same for both of us. I understand your perception that this type of thing is condescending (the wording of any particular prayer could have that slant), but you could equally make the case that anyone that offers prayers on your behalf loves you and cares for you and wants the best for you. I just wouldn't want the | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
