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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 3/14/2006 2:49:20 PM
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papist
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yes, repetitious prayer like Jesus said? or like thew angels in heaven HOLY HOLY HOLY HOLY HOLY HOLY all day?
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/14/2006 11:10:42 PM
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upNORTder
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The most powerful prayer I ever prayed consisted of one word- God!
_______________________________________________________________
If you hold a cat by the tail you learn things you cannot learn any other way.
Mark Twain
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/15/2006 9:14:15 AM
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DaveW
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I find it very interesting that no one commented on the repetitive prayers of the 1st century Jews (including Christ, Paul, James the just, Peter, John, etc.) that are still in use by the Messianic community; i.e. the Kaddish, the Amidah and the Alenu.
The Kaddish (mourner's kaddish version)
Read by leader and those in mourning with the rest of the congregational response in bold
May His great Name grow exalted and sanctified Amen.
in the world that He created as He willed.
May He give reign to His kingship in your lifetimes and in your days,
and in the lifetimes of the entire Family of Israel,
swiftly and soon. Now respond: Amen.
May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.
Blessed, praised, glorified, exalted, extolled,
mighty, upraised, and lauded be the Name of the Holy One,
Blessed is He
beyond any blessing and song,
praise and consolation that are uttered in the world. Now respond: Amen.
May there be abundant peace from Heaven, and life
upon us and upon all Israel. Now respond: Amen.
He Who makes peace in His heights, may He make peace,
upon us and upon all Israel. Now respond: Amen
There are several versions of this, some with more some with less text, but this is the basic Kaddish. They are all either read responsively like this version or in unison by everyone.
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/16/2006 11:38:17 PM
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keltoi
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
I find it very interesting that no one commented on the repetitive prayers of the 1st century Jews (including Christ, Paul, James the just, Peter, John, etc.) that are still in use by the Messianic community; i.e. the Kaddish, the Amidah and the Alenu.
I find it interesting that you have not seen them mentioned in this thread, I certainly have.
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/17/2006 11:40:14 AM
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Ps103
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Keltoi--
Yes, Dave has brought them up several times, himself. I think what he meant was that not a single person in the thread has commented on what he wrote.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/17/2006 12:42:08 PM
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DaveW
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Thank you.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/26/2006 12:22:19 AM
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inchristsblood
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When I think of repetition in prayer, I think of the 4 living creatures mentioned in Rev 4:8
8Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/27/2006 9:04:47 PM
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patm
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I suggest you read this: Mathew 6: 5-18
5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[a] 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. 9 In this manner, therefore, pray:
Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we forgive our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Fasting to Be Seen Only by God
16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.[c]
See, when you pray, it says do NOT use repetitions...i mean, when you are asking for something, yea you might you repetition..but thats not the end of the prayer. I am trying to change this as well...when you pray, pray as if he was your friend. When you talk to a friend...do you use repetition? NO, you dont...you tell them about your life..how it is going, what is new...that what God wants you to tell him. He want you to talk to him. See, God knows everything, and he knows what you are in need for. So why keep using repetitions? Do you think that by repeating He will hear you more? No, he knows what you want before you ask. Just talk to him..as a friend...i am trying to do the same. These words did not come from me, they are written in the bible...in the passages i posted along with this.
~God Bless~
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/28/2006 5:14:06 PM
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Lurker
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And yet, Jesus Himself used repetitious prayer. (Matt. 26:44).
The key is in Matthew 6:7, "And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do."
Jesus Himself gave us one of the most repeated prayers we have. The key obviously then is the prohibition against VAIN repetitious prayers. Not against repetitious prayer itself.
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/28/2006 10:35:50 PM
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gatolover
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Our Lord Jesus Christ prayed three times for the cup to pass from Him in the Garden of Gethsemane.
Certainly, no one is willing to accuse our Lord of "sinful, repetitive" prayer, right?
Pax Christi,
gatolover
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/29/2006 11:36:27 AM
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patm
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Right, you cant pray using vain repetitions. But thats what usually happens when you keep repeating something...it becomes a vain repetition. but your right, as long as its not vain
~God Bless~
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/29/2006 12:00:14 PM
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Lurker
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So then, what would be an example of a vain repetitious prayer -vs- a sincere repetitious prayer?
I'll offer my view.
I often see people praying over and over for God to give them things. Now there's nothing wrong with asking for things in times of need. But do we really need to pray for God to give us a Mercedes Benz? Or to give us financial wealth? Yet I often see these types of prayers. They might not be the exact same words, but they're repeated requests for things that we really don't need. That in my mind is an example of a vain repetitious prayer.
For the example of a sincere repetitious prayer I offer the Our Father. True, it can be simply recited quickly with no sincerity, but when prayed with sincerity it becomes a powerful weapon in our struggle against the actions of the fallen one. It gives glory to God the Father, asks only for what is necessary, and asks for the grace to help us forgive those who hurt us.
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 8/31/2006 9:20:13 AM
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caur
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Honestly, what is prayer except for talking and walking with God? When I am in conversation with someone, I don't want to hear them say the same things over and over and over again. Where is the dynamic in that? God is our Father (thank you, JESUS!) and desires nothing besides our true love for Him, to Him, and through Him.
_____________________________
Jesus is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 9/1/2006 11:35:31 PM
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Hagnismos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SaintJVMan
When your child says I love you, I love you, I love you! Do you rebuke him and tell him that that’s only vain repetition?
Actually my daughter is in a stage now where sometimes she repeats things to me over and over. I do eventually ask her to be quiet. The bible says "do not mumble vainly like the Gentiles for they think they willbe heard for their many words, do not be like this , but when you pray say,.." Then follows the Lords prayer, which I suppose if you really mean you could just pray that and eb done with it. Somehow the idea of relationship suggests a more lively thing and many teachings exist talking about how the parts of the Lord's Prayer helps us to have the right attitude in approaching God through prayer. I tend to hold that view. The Rosary from what I can see is a gentile prayer wheel disguised as a Christian act. I love many thing about Catholics but venerating such a humble woman as Mary, who I suspect would be horrified to see herself placed on equal footing with her Lord, is not one them.
Oh, yeah, we also know that there are prayers God does not appreciate, prayers from a man who is mistreating his wife, or generally prayers from people who are in the flesh, and hypocrites (Jesus, Peter and James speak on these things.)
I do think it sends a wrong message about God and Jesus to teach people to pray repetitively. Having to approach God on groveling hands and kness for fear of the glory in the cloud was OT. Now we have a more sure faith that enters behind the veil where Jesus Himself has also ventured.
< Message edited by Hagnismos -- 9/1/2006 11:38:09 PM >
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 9/2/2006 1:24:43 AM
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Lurker
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quote:
The Rosary from what I can see is a gentile prayer wheel disguised as a Christian act. I love many thing about Catholics but venerating such a humble woman as Mary, who I suspect would be horrified to see herself placed on equal footing with her Lord, is not one them.
Actually, the rosary is VERY scriptural. Here's a great link talking about it.
And we don't put Mary on equal footing as the Lord. To do so would be an incredibly horrifying sin and it's been condemned by the Church over and over. That said, we do honour her because she deserves honour. We weren't the ones who put her in a position worthy of being honoured, the Lord already did so, we are simply recognizing that position. :)
I know that when I accepted Jesus as my personal Lord and Saviour, I accepted all of Him, His joy, His sorrow, His love, and His passion. Indeed, in taking the Lord Jesus as my saviour, I also accepted His mother Mary as my own personal mother. :)
_____________________________
Do not be afraid of Christ! He takes nothing away, and he gives you everything. When we give ourselves to him, we receive a hundredfold in return. Yes, open, open wide the doors to Christ—and you will find true life.
-Pope Benedict XVI
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 9/2/2006 1:59:07 AM
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EmptyCup
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What Jesus had warned us not to do is to pray like the Gentiles do. Just look around your local non-Christian religion and observe the patterns of their prayers and see if any of your practices resemble theirs.
To Jesus these are vain repetitions. They believe that the multiplication of their prayers would be the basis of God's giving them an audience. The faith is now placed on their ability to repeatedly pray.
Come to think of it, this could also be an indication of little faith in the word of God that he hears our prayers and is ready to answer them. And it could also mean that there is more faith on ourselves and our prayers.
I believe the Lord wants us not to fall into a prayer rut, not to just follow traditional prayers or be slaves to our own repetitious prayers because this is closely patterned to idolatrous prayer. He does not want to be part of it or us falling in love with it. He wishes us to come with real words that are heart generated in truth and faith in Him.
Matt 6:7, 8: "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him."
< Message edited by EmptyCup -- 9/2/2006 2:07:26 AM >
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 1/20/2007 12:35:02 PM
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GracieRuth
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The Rosary is FAR from simply the spoken prayers, and it boggles my brains that people always get stuck on them. The HEART of the Rosary is the MEDITATIONS.
The Rosary is a DEVOTIONAL designed for illiterate people who could not read the Bible. It is a series of meditations upon the life of Christ as seen through the eyes of his mother. Each series is a group of five "mysteries" or scenes to be meditated upon. The prayers give a person the time to reflect, i.e. from one Our Father through Ten Hail Mary's is one scene to meditate, although many will pause to spend more time. Each of these sets is called a decade (ten). For example, one might spend a decade meditating upon the Transfiguration.
There are Four Series, each containing five mysteries, one per decade. The Joyful Mysteries surround the Nativity. The Luminous Mysteries surround Jesus' ministry. The Sorrowful Mysteries surround his Crucifixion. And the Glorious Mysteries surround his Resurection and the coming of the Holy Spirit.
So what is so vain and empty about meditating up these things?
Grace
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 1/21/2007 9:16:46 AM
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facedown
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how interesting of those who seem to adversly judge repetitive prayer. it seems as though this crowd might then suggest (if we kept with their logic) that our prayers should only be
1) The LORD's Prayer
2) The Confession of Thomas
3) Silent & Contemplative as evidenced from Mary
of course, it this logic doesn't extend, for the the LORD's Prayer isn't used in Evangelical Worship, a simple (yet profound) confession such as Thomas' isn't definitive enough, and contemplation is deemed heretical.
of course, i'm certain that some evangelical/fundamentalist/non-denom churches say the LORD's prayer, but that isn't quite the point - is it?
_____________________________
-| those who say, don't know. those who know, don't say |-
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 1/22/2007 8:04:15 AM
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Soxfan
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Matthew 6:7:
"7 "When you pray, don't babble on and on as people of other religions do. They think their prayers are answered only by repeating their words again and again."[/b]
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Repetitive prayer? - 1/22/2007 9:30:45 AM
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facedown
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soxfan
are you not assuming that should you hear a word 'repeated' that your hearing pagans babble on and on?
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