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RE: The Anti-Christ is From The Middle East - 4/30/2008 4:46:43 PM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 268
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PeterD
The Abomination of Desolation
15"So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Could someone explain where "the holy place" is or the very spot where the abomination of desolation will be standing?
PeterD
I agree with Midwest. No where in the Bible does it prophesy a third temple being built on the temple mount.
Jesus was standing on the Mount of Olives looking down at the temple mount when he told this to his disciples in Matthew 24, and the "holy place" he was refering to was the temple mount. This "abomination of desolation" is called an "it" in the gospel of Mark, and in Daniel 12:11 says that this "it" called the Abomination of Desolation would be "set up." I don't see how a man is going to be called an "it" nor how he is going to be "set up" on the temple mount somehow, nor how he is going to be an abomination that causes desolation. Makes no sense.
In 688 AD, we saw the Muslims build a temple, the Dome of the Rock, on the outer court of the temple mount in Jerusalem. Shortly after they started building it, the Christians knew what Jesus had said, "When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place...let those who are in Judea (Jerusalem) flee to the mountains...for then shall be great tribulation." The Christians living there at the time got the heck out of there, and the Jews, who DO NOT believe in the New Testament and do not bother reading it, did not know about Jesus' warning to those in Judea in Matthew 24. So right after the Christians left, the Muslims slaughtered 1 million Jews and ran the rest out of the country. That started the Great Tribulation period.
We're told that the Gentiles, in Rev 11, will trodden down (rule) the outer court of the temple mount for 42 months. In prophecy, a day equals a year according to Eze 4:5-6 and Numbers 14:34. So each day of that 42 months is a year, actually. And it comes out to 1278.5 years when you do the math (the .5 is because of the uneven 365.24 day solar year we have). If you do the math, starting at 688.5 AD, when construction of the Dome of the Rock began, and add 1,278.5 years to it, you come out to 1967, which is the year the Jews took back the temple mount and Jerusalem in the Six Day War for the first time in, well... 1,278.5 years exactly. lol God's pretty darn accurate with His prophecies I'd say. On top of that, this time of great tribulation throughout those years had Jews being hunted down throughout the world and slaughtered, and ended with 6 million Jews being slaughtered by Hitler in WWII. A fairly powerful Muslim in Iran at the time befriended Hitler and convinced him that it was in his best interest to kill the Jews, because they were just above apes on the evolutionary latter, and their Koran even says the Jews are just apes if I remember correctly. Pretty messed up. Christians are also killed in the largest numbers ever throughout that time period. That was the Great Tribulation. We're past it now and in the "time of the End" according to Daniel 12.
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: The Anti-Christ is From The Middle East - 4/30/2008 5:15:19 PM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 268
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
You make a great point by using this verse. I don't think people realize what this verse is saying. God had an Ark of the Covenant for the Jews in which He, the Holy Spirit, was in. And if you touched it, you'd die. If it was present during a battle, the other army would be wiped out. This was God and He apparently was REALLY angry that He had been put in a box and decided to wipe out any army that would come against His box, or any one that would touch His box. Just kidding on that angry part. hehehehe
Anyway, the way it went in the Old Testament was that only the High Priest could approach the Ark of the Covenant in the Holy of Holies in the temple once a year and give a sacrifice to account for everyone's sins for that year, AS A SYMBOL of the coming Messiah. The Jews thought the sacrifice saved them, but missed that their Messiah was the actual one that would give the sacrifice to save them. So they did the temple cerimonies to show the future arrival of their perfect sacrifice, their messiah, whether they knew it or not. The High Priest would have a rope tied around his waiste when going into the Holy of Holies to give this sacrifice, because if he had not repented of even one sin to God and asked forgiveness for it, God would strike him dead with the Ark as soon as he pulled back the curtain and entered into the Holy of Holies. Then, they'd drag him out by the rope. Not high priest was killed, to my knowledge. David had the Holy Spirit in him, we know. David actually went to the temple, pulled back the curtain, pulled up a stool and sat right in front of the Ark and spoke to God for quite a while. Gutsy move!
When Christ died on the cross, it says that the curtain that separated anyone from seeing or going into the Holy of Holies was torn in half, showing that the perfect sacrifice for all sins had been given in Jesus, and no more were required... and through Jesus' sacrifice, we all have access to salvation and to God.
In the New Testament, we are told that we have the Holy Spirit now, like the Ark of the Covenant did, and that our bodies are now temples of God, and that we should respect them as such and not defile them.
In 2 Thess 2:1-4 says in verse four:
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Now, if our bodies are the temples of God now, and Satan spreads false doctrines throughout the church and we believe them, then I'd say Satan is coming into the temple of God (our bodies) and making a claim as God. Look at Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons for an extreme example of this. They do not believe in the Trinity. They believe God the Father, the Son Jesus and the Holy Spirit are two or three different people (depending on if you're Mormon or JW). And that is very anti-christ. So this false Jesus as taken seat in their hearts and acted as if he's God when it's really just Satan.
I won't really go into tongues too much, because I'll step on too many toes, but imagine if tongues were NOT being produced by the Holy Spirit but rather a demon spirit posing as the Holy Spirit. God gave us free will and sovereign reign over the earth and all that's on it in Genesis 1:26, meaning He cannot interfere unless we ask Him to do so through prayer. Now, if Satan knows prayer is that powerful, wouldn't he want to counterfit prayer and substitute it with something meaninglessa and powerless so that Christians aren't praying but rather babbling for no apparent reason? Sure he would. That's smart. Well, get this: Satanists speak in tongues exactly the same way Christians do, and I've heard from ex-Satanists that the tongues sounds exactly the same when Christians do it as when Satanists do it. Also, if you study the times of the Corinthian church when Paul reprimanded them for speaking in tongues, you find out that the reason he spoke only to Corinth about tongues is because they were the only church near Delphi and Athens. And in Delphi and Athens, the secular people were speaking in a babble language that was exactly like "tongues." So these Corinthians grew up with this babble language and implimented it into Christianity. Paul tells them about what tongues REALLY is, and tells them to stop speaking in this babble tongue or they'll scare people off from the church. He says that tongues is a known laguage on earth. Missionaries and my friends can vouch for that first hand. ALL stories in the last 1900 years up to about the 1900's regarding tongues are from missionaries who say they were speaking to someone who did not speak their language, but as they started speaking to them, that person's language came out of their mouth. And in every instance it's written about, the person they spoke to in tongues (a different language that the other person understood, but that the speaker had never spoken before) resulted in that person being saved.
The gifts of the spirit are always for others, not ourselves. So tongues, the babble language is useless to others. And if you ever look at an exegetical study of 1 Corinthians 14 in regard to the tongues spoken of there, you find out that there's this strict definition between "speaking" in tongues and "praying" in tongues. And you find that praying in tongues is done in your spirit, not verbally, and you are the one that's supposed to get the translation of the "tongues" in your mind in English, and only then are you to speak the translation to others. If you don't get the translation in your mind, then Paul tells the people not to speak it. I think this was to prevent the babble or a false spirit of tongues we might year in our spirit. I have an exegetically study from Ellis Skolfield's book Demons in the Church I typed up directly from the book if you'd like me to email it to you. It's interesting and enlightening. When I talked to Ellis, he said that while studying "tongues" in the church in the last 1900 years, he found that it virtually didn't exist in the church the way it does today, and even quoted a pastor from the 300 AD era that said the babble language tongues that Paul reprimanded the Corinthian church for is non-existant in the church (as a whole) today. Interesting.
Therefore, I think the temple is our body, and this "man of sin, man of lawlessness" that's coming in is the spirit of antichrist, which is the spirit of devils, and they're coming in via false doctrine, like the doctrine of tongues. And it fits so well when you see that these people THINK it's the Holy Spirit speaking it through them, when it's actually just a demon spirit claiming to be the Holy Spirit. I could tell you some interesting stories about people who've tested the spirits causing the "tongues" in people. It usually freaks out the person speaking tongues. Another interesting note is that in Corinthians 11, we see that Paul spends most of the chapter teaching the church ordinance of women wearing head-coverings (hats or scarves), and says that they are a "sign of authority for the angels" (fallen angels, I think). What's interesting is that if a woman says it is a spirit that speaks the tongues through them, and they are not the one controlling the tongues, if they put on a head-covering, their ability to speak tongues is suddenly gone. They can't speak in tongues anymore, they say, unless they simply make it up as they go. lol I find that kind of funny... Just something to think about...
_____________________________
- Brian
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RE: The Anti-Christ is From The Middle East - 5/5/2008 4:22:25 PM
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eschatologist
Posts: 39
Joined: 1/6/2008
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Daniel 11 says the Anti-christ will be the king of the North. The chapter basicially talks about different battles between the "King of the North and the "King of the south". The king of the south wins a few and the king of the north wins a few. Then starting in verse 15 the king of the north wins some important battles especially against Israel: "So the king of the North shall come, and cast up a mount, and take the most fenced cities: and the arms of the south shall not withstand., neither his chosen people, (Isreal) neither shall there be any strength to withstand." The king of the South, which includes Isreal shall not be able to withstand the advancing armies of the king of the North.
Verse 16 says that "none shall stand against him (the king of the North) and he shall stand in the glorious land, (Israel) which by his hand shall be consumed." Remember we're talking about the king of the North, but not the antichrist, yet.
Verse 18: " After this(After winning a battle against Israel) he shall turn his face unto the isles (the British Isles) and shall take many. but a prince for his own behalf shall cause the reproach offered by him to cease; without his own reproach he shall cause it to turn upon him. verse 19: Then he shall turn his face toward the fort of his own land: (He'll retreat from trying to attack the british Isles and start heading back toward Russia) but he shall stumble and fall but not be found."
So, it looks like after winning a battle against Israel in the South and her allies, most notably G.B. and the USA, he tries to attack the British Isles. But he spreads himself too thin and one of his own people back home turns against him, probably with the help of the CIA and their counter-intellegence spy network, and he loses power and influence to somebody else. So he heads back home to his own country to try and regain his power but on the way he just disappears. It's not clear whether he is assassinated or dies in an accident or just disappears. The bible just says he gets lost, or "is not found".
Verse 20: "Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom; but within a few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger nor in battle." So, after one "King of the North" loses power and disappears the next person who takes over is somebody who tries to make money and gain influence by raising taxes. This is also one reason I believe the last guy was ousted and this guy put in power by the internal influence of the US intelligence agency. He starts to model his government after American style commercialism. But he is in power only a few days before he dies. When it says he dies, "neither in anger, nor in battle," it means he either gets sick and dies or he dies in an accident of some kind. He isn't murdered, ousted, assassinated, or killed by anybody.
Verse 21" And in his estate shall stand up a vile person," (This is the antichrist. I went through all the above verses to show that the antichrist will be coming from the "North." The first "King of the north" wins a few battles, but then loses power and gets ousted, the second one who takes his place dies after only a few days in office, then this third one takes over, and the following verse will show that this is talking about the antichrist.) verse 21 continues: "to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom: but he shall come in peacably and obtain the kingdom by flatteries." Meaning he will come in and gain popularity by making speaches and appealing to the hearts of the people by making promises of economic stability, etc. He doesn't gain power by attacking and fighting with military might, but "peacably" by making promises that he doesn't intend to keep, much like many politicians do today.
Verse 22: " And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant." This is saying that he is the prince of the covenant. This covenant that it is talking about is the 7 year peace pact that he will make with many countries to try and promote peace and stability in the world.
Verse 23: And after the league(Peace Pact or covenant) made with him he shall work decietfully: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. " After he brokers this seven year peace agreement, this will give him time to consolidate his power and he will become popular with the majority of the poor and downtrodden and the majority of the world.
< Message edited by eschatologist -- 5/6/2008 7:59:49 PM >
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RE: The Anti-Christ is From The Middle East - 5/6/2008 7:45:20 PM
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eschatologist
Posts: 39
Joined: 1/6/2008
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I wrote the piece above but I didn't have a chance to completely finish it before I had to go. I was trrying to say that the Anti-christ is this king of the North which means I agree with the people who say the antichrist will come from Russia, which is the land of the North that these verses are talking about.
Ezekial 38 and 39 also talk about the Antichrist being from Gog and Magog, the chief prince of Mesheck and Tubal. And we know that Gog is the ancient name for the land that we now call Russia, and Mesheck and Tubal are the ancient names for two cities in Russia, Moscow and Tobalsk.
I was planning on going through the entire chapter of Daniel 11 but then I decided to simply stick to the main topic of this thread, which is, where does the Antichrist come from.
< Message edited by eschatologist -- 5/6/2008 8:02:10 PM >
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RE: The Anti-Christ is From The Middle East - 5/9/2008 9:33:47 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
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The beast from the earth, once was, now is not, yet will come..... Therefore, race or nationality is irrelevant to discuss regarding the origin of the appearance of the false worldwide leader prophet who is also called the antichrist. He is the culmination of the fulfillment of all the other antichrist beings; for he is a prophet with spiritual authority and signs and wonders powers. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, he opposes the two olive trees as written: the beast that jumps up from the pit will overpower and kill them and leave their bodies in the street for 3 1/2 days while the world celebrates 'christmas' by giving gift exchanges to one another as is our custom during the Holidays. He belongs to the seven, and is going to his destruction, as the son of perdition, the eighth king or fallen 'power that be' in the darkened heavenly realms; who fell with lucifer in the rebellion against God among the spiritual beings that God had created, of whom, only one third fell with lucifer as written.....
Gog and Magog; modern day 'russia' and 'china'; will be gathered by lucifer and the false prophet and the beast (the embodiment representing the total number of the fallen spiritual beings, of whom seven were prophesied to have been ordained rulership through agreement with God for earthly empires in the spiritual realm; the angel struggles with the king of persia as written and prophesies concerning the 'king' of the empire of Greece that was to come at the appropriate time) for one last amageddon battle after his release from the bottomless pit, where he will be incarcerated for one thousand years during the Millennium Reign of Jesus Christ on earth at the Holy City of Jerusalem..... For our struggle is not against flesh and blood peoples, but against the rulers and powers in the lower darkened heavenly realms.
Never are these things the 'end of the world' without being the beginning of the new one.....
Unless a seed falls to the ground and dies, the new tree will not begin. Jesus said, do not love the world or anything in the world. If one loves these things more than Jesus, our True love, they are a double minded person who is unstable in all of their ways for a house divided will not stand. And, Jesus said that the cares of the world or things choke the Word that was sown in the hearts of people and make it unfruitful in The Kingdom of God.
Every tree that does not bear Good fruit will be pulled up by the roots and thrown out into the darkness of the eternal lake of fire as written in the Testimony of John the Baptist and Jesus Christ..... For the Testimony of Jesus, is the Spirit of prophecy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
I wrote the piece above but I didn't have a chance to completely finish it before I had to go. I was trrying to say that the Anti-christ is this king of the North which means I agree with the people who say the antichrist will come from Russia, which is the land of the North that these verses are talking about.
Ezekial 38 and 39 also talk about the Antichrist being from Gog and Magog, the chief prince of Mesheck and Tubal. And we know that Gog is the ancient name for the land that we now call Russia, and Mesheck and Tubal are the ancient names for two cities in Russia, Moscow and Tobalsk.
I was planning on going through the entire chapter of Daniel 11 but then I decided to simply stick to the main topic of this thread, which is, where does the Antichrist come from.
< Message edited by ..... -- 5/9/2008 10:03:00 AM >
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RE: The Anti-Christ is From The Middle East - 5/9/2008 10:38:29 AM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 268
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eschatologist
Daniel 11 says the Anti-christ will be the king of the North.
Where in Daniel 11 does it call the king of the North by the name "Antichrist"?
_____________________________
- Brian
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