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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/12/2008 7:27:05 PM
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besiderself
Posts: 1295
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doveflight
Hello besiderself,
I haven't read the White/Hunt book. I went on a Sproul binge for awhile and have been reading some other books for the time being dealing with adjusting to limited lifetime and preparations to make both legally and emotionally. If anyone knows someone in this position, The Shadow of Death, has been very helpful.
For those who remember the recent chapters of my life story, my counts are down to 3, yippee,
and chemotherapy seems to be progressing well. Miss you guys.
Dear Doveflight;
I wasn't aware of your anticipated leave-taking...God comfort and bless you with wisdom as you make preparations. Not that I'm in a hurry for you to go or anything, stay as long as you can; but if you get there before I do, give Michael Jones a hug for me, and tell him I'm missing him. You'll like him...everybody does.
besiderself
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/12/2008 7:29:52 PM
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besiderself
Posts: 1295
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Geocacher301
quote:
I think that threads like this one ebb and flow, so hang around...it might get more interesting soon. Have you read Debating Calvinism by James White and Dave Hunt? If so, what did you think about it?
besiderself
I know the question wasn't directed at me but I did read it. It was good reading. There certainly are more. If you look on "youtube" Dave Hunt has a series of videos on there where he shares his view on Reformed/Calvinistic theology. I enjoyed watching his videos.
Geocacher;
I went to James White's site, and he had a lot of his debates on mp3--good for me since I drive a lot. I'll be listening to a few of them, when I get through with the John Piper sermons I've downloaded.
besiderself
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/12/2008 7:40:35 PM
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Doveflight
Posts: 1313
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: middle of nowhere 4 hrs from anywhere
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besiderself,
John Piper never ends, dear heart. Just take the first opportunity you have to do something else and come back to soak in JP.
Dove
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/14/2008 7:06:17 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2340
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
Status: online
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... Yawn ...
quote:
Theojunkie doesn't post too often on here, but I think he actually attends a SG church, so if he shows up, maybe he can give some first-hand info rather than 2nd or 3rd person.
Indeed I've been absent quite a while. Been basically swamped at work since November, and dead tired (or, feeling like I ought to do some fathering/familying) when I'm actually at home...
Regarding SGM... Excellent point that first hand is best and all else is silly (and by the way, even me speaking to you all is only second hand from your perspective...)
The spirit of the accusations here and on the linked blog, is not one of conversation/discussion. There is a clear agenda to be furthered, and anyone who says otherwise will be pronounced to be brainwashed by the "authorities" at SGM. Thus my --yawn--... I shan't waste much time on this.
1) What is the difference between saying "I would only go somewhere that had another SGM church" and saying "I would only go somewhere that had another [Presby/Methodist/Catholic/AOG/PCA/whatever] church?"
2) Such statements (if/when made) are by preference of the congregants because they love what SGM stands for... VERSUS a cult-like rote recital or requirement. My church (in both the membership class and then again in the discipleship class) has very clearly stated that while of course they hope people will attend this local church (not SGM, mind, but this local church)... if this local church is not for the person, they should diligently seek A local church to get hooked in with. One of the scenarios we had in our discipleship class dealt with "what if your friend came to you and said they got a great job offer in another city..." The scenario was, that the city did not have a "doctrinally solid local church" (no mention of "another SGM church"... the only criteria was "doctrinally solid").
3) SGM routinely quotes folk like Sproul, Grudem, Piper, Spurgeon, Owen, Calvin, and others... NONE OF WHOM, dead or alive, are/were members of an SGM church.
4) People who leave our local church frequently come back. Not because they fear for their souls, but because they find the grass just ain't as green elsewhere as they thought it would be.
5) I have disagreed with my pastors on several issues (and continue to disagree on some issues), and never have I been forced to change my mind or leave/be disciplined. One biggie is the issue of believer baptism for those (such as myself) who were baptized as infants. I flat out told my pastor at my membership interview that I would not at this time be baptized because I firmly uphold my infant baptism. I did agree to look into it diligently. However, my pastor's final words to me were simply that whatever I decide on this issue, he wants me to decide with integrity between me and God. And not only have I not been pestered further on this, but I was invited to be a leader of the childrens' ministry.
6) It's one thing to disagree with doctrine (and even policy)... but quite another to pontificate on hearsay. If anyone wants to go EXPERIENCE AND LIVE IN an SGM church and then decide it's not for them and leave... GREAT. But to sit around on the internet "warning people" about a church just because they personally found it not their cup of tea... well... whatever. The internet surely is a free place, thank God.
7) SGM is very very different from practically any other church denomination/family you are likely to encounter in the western world (or eastern, probably). Does that make it wrong and dangerous? Probably to some. If you don't like it, don't go there. But just like brussels sprouts and spinach... if you've never tried it, how can you say you don't like it?
8) We serve Kool-Aid at church functions (along with coffee, soda, and iced tea), but so far, everyone has survived.
9) Blah blah blah blah.
10) Whatever...
Criteria for Evaluating Any Church:
1) Do they teach from the Bible.
2) Do they go forth.
3) Do they make disciples.
In short, whatever church you pick, it needs to be doctrinally sound, gospel-centered, and needs to take life in and with Christ seriously.
If a person has a problem with the concepts of sound doctrine, the gospel, or taking Christ as their Lord and growing with Him at every opportunity... I would suggest the problem is personal.
< Message edited by TheoJunkie -- 1/14/2008 7:13:24 PM >
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/14/2008 7:31:29 PM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2340
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
Status: online
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by the way...
(and my tirade has nothing to do with most of you on this thread... it is against the linked blog and its advocate).
I am fully aware that my response above ("If you don't like it, fine" / "SGM isn't for everyone") is exactly what would be expected from one who has been woefully brainwashed such as I... as the linked blog has so very wisely predicted and preempted.
Yes, I find SGM to be the best church around-- else I wouldn't be there. Think about that. If you don't find YOUR church to be the best around, then ask yourself why you are attending. 
No, I don't think SGM is for everybody. And while yes, I think this has something to do with a Christian's maturity... no, I don't think this has anything to do with whether a person is a Christian (at least not necessarily). By the way, statistically speaking (and also somewhat by observation), I would not be surprised in the slightest if some attendees (even members) of SGM churches, including my local church, are not ACTUALLY Christian-- just like at any church. I would be the percentage is smaller, but no doubt they are there.
The main thing I'm peeved about here, is not that "people are being mean to poor old SGM"... but that the whole question is set up like, "Do you still beat your wife?" You can't win. If you defend SGM, then you have been brainwashed by them (this has been firmly established). So the only option is to jump on the bandwagon and cut them a new one along with your fellow man. Foolishness.
Strange thing is, just like Reformed Theology and indeed the Gospel Itself... the more people that get offended at it, the more right it is proven to be!
< Message edited by TheoJunkie -- 1/14/2008 7:38:05 PM >
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/14/2008 8:01:01 PM
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Doveflight
Posts: 1313
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: middle of nowhere 4 hrs from anywhere
Status: offline
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Hey John, I wanted to take this opportunity to tell you I love the way your mind works.
After your comments above I am glad I didn't bother to take the time to read all the sites.
As usual you make such clear sense.
Now back to regularly scheduled programs.....,
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/15/2008 8:49:44 PM
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Geocacher301
Posts: 70
Joined: 4/27/2007
Status: offline
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TheJunkie:
LOL It took me a little while to finish laughing from your post thus the delay in responding.
Thanks for at least reading some of the comments on the blog. I do hope that Sovereign Grace Ministries Leadership will consider with more of an open mind points raised on the blog than you appear to be doing. I don’t see this blog as something set up to bash SG but to discuss issues and problems people have experienced with them.
Maybe this is an online “Nathan” as C.J. Mahaney use to teach.
The person who started the blog had no idea that this blog would generate nearly the interest it has. This owner of the blog has repeatedly indicated she has no “axe to grind” with SG but started the blog due seeing little anything but glowing information on the Web about SG except comments in two blogs. One of these blogs suddenly disappeared. The blog owner posted what she had managed to save of that other blog and them all of a sudden numerous posts started coming in.
The number of comments and hits to this blog site certainly says something.
Doveflight
I am not so sure I would take TheJunkie's analysis of the blog as that objective but that is just my opinion.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/16/2008 12:19:06 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3763
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
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I don't know...maybe it is a nominated deal. I've never checked.
Anyways...Hi right back to you!
_____________________________
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/16/2008 5:40:15 PM
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Doveflight
Posts: 1313
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: middle of nowhere 4 hrs from anywhere
Status: offline
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If John wants to weigh in on any issue of my making, I'd be right honored, along with Doink, April, Euty and....... Bless you all.
Amen from Wyoming, an amen that must be a preemptive poll from SC and my two bits on
an opinion poll three months early...Amen. Do you know my state is the ONLY primary in April. Won't it be all over by then, done and decided?
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/17/2008 7:05:09 AM
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TheoJunkie
Posts: 2340
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Death to Life
Status: online
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quote:
TOPIC CHANGE:
Good idea. (If nothing else, you are all tempting me to pride... but thanks for the supportive comments).
quote:
My husband and I are on the last weeks of doing John Piper's Blazing Center series with his book, Desiring God. I know the original audience was teenagers, but we have been so blessed by this study that I wanted to let people know to not let the audience fool you into thinking this would not be applicable or beneficial for adults, etc.
It has been eye-opening, thought-provoking and very moving at times.
Our next study is called When I Don't Desire God and in the preliminary reading, it is awesome.
I need to read more (or some?) Piper. I have heard nothing but great things about him.
_____________________________
-John
God is God. Get used to it.
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/17/2008 2:08:27 PM
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Rick4Him
Posts: 65
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I hope you all don't mind me jumping in here? I have had a great interest lately in reformed theology. I often listen to and read RC Sproul and John Piper.
I do have a question from the above posts. What is the SGM church you all are talking about?
Rick
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/17/2008 2:09:52 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5016
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Rick4Him
I hope you all don't mind me jumping in here? I have had a great interest lately in reformed theology. I often listen to and read RC Sproul and John Piper.
I do have a question from the above posts. What is the SGM church you all are talking about?
Rick
I wondered the same thing yesterday and did a search on the thread. It's "Sovereign Grace Ministries."
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RE: Reformed Theology Chat Thread - 1/17/2008 2:13:49 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5016
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Rick, I'm a little surprised that you're interested in RT, but only because your avatar looked to me to be a Catholic "sacred heart" picture of Jesus.
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