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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/6/2008 11:48:04 PM
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TheosCentric
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The two state solution offered by the U.N. in 1947 is the best solution possible at this point, although there are many who think that Israel should just go ahead and annex all of the West Bank and Gaza because it's there land anyway. Umm..okay.
As for Al Jazeera, there is not one shred of evidence that they are the anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, pro-terror, etc., etc., etc.
They just so happen to get the tapes from the organizations because they are the largest Arab news organization in the Middle East. They broadcast all over the world. If y'all have the right to post information from the hate sites of WorldNetDaily, JihadWatch, and Frontpage, then I have the right to post from the English language version of Al Jazeera.
Like I said before, where was the shooter from. East Jerusalem. Last time I checked, that was in Israel, illegally I might add since they illegally annexed it, defying U.N. resolutions.
He carried a blue Israeli identification card. Abbas condemned the attack. I condemn the attack. Yet millions of people are suffering in Gaza because Israel won't let supplies in. It's a human rights nightmare. But blame it on Hamas because they're shooting rockets. Always the Palestinians fault. Never the Israelis' fault. Nope, never. Can't be. Our salvation depends on our support for Israel. We'll go to Hell otherwise.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/7/2008 8:44:13 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1650
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
The two state solution offered by the U.N. in 1947 is the best solution possible at this point, although there are many who think that Israel should just go ahead and annex all of the West Bank and Gaza because it's there land anyway. Umm..okay.
As for Al Jazeera, there is not one shred of evidence that they are the anti-Jewish, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, pro-terror, etc., etc., etc.
They just so happen to get the tapes from the organizations because they are the largest Arab news organization in the Middle East. They broadcast all over the world. If y'all have the right to post information from the hate sites of WorldNetDaily, JihadWatch, and Frontpage, then I have the right to post from the English language version of Al Jazeera.
Like I said before, where was the shooter from. East Jerusalem. Last time I checked, that was in Israel, illegally I might add since they illegally annexed it, defying U.N. resolutions.
He carried a blue Israeli identification card. Abbas condemned the attack. I condemn the attack. Yet millions of people are suffering in Gaza because Israel won't let supplies in. It's a human rights nightmare. But blame it on Hamas because they're shooting rockets. Always the Palestinians fault. Never the Israelis' fault. Nope, never. Can't be. Our salvation depends on our support for Israel. We'll go to Hell otherwise.
This is an excellent post which summarizes a lot of things I say in many posts!
I have to agree. English Al-Jazeera is a surprisingly solid news source - it's far better than WND.
And I utterly agree. The media in America makes it seem like it's only and always Israel who is the victim. Never the Israelis. Even though the UN has issued more resolutions against them than against Saddam Hussein's Iraq. Even though Israel has taken and occupied territory illegally - and settled it.
What often happens when things like the Gaza siege and the rocket attacks occur is that the IDF uses disproportionate force in retaliation. The IDF used excessively disproportionate force against Lebanon in 2006 (and in the process, destroyed much of that country's infrastructure, which had been painstakingly rebuilt after many years of civil war) and they are using it now. I repeat: if it was reversed... if a Palestinian government with the military strength of the State of Israel did to an Israeli enclave what the IDF is doing to Gaza, the Bush administration would be leading a roundtable of condemnations and pushing the UN for action. But because Israel is the one doing the majority of the trigger-pulling, our media stays silent, our leaders say nothing - and Israel gets away with murder... nay, with war crimes.
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/7/2008 9:26:38 AM
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RichLP
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8 Human Rights groups have stated that Gaza is facing its worst humanitarian crisis since 1967.
Why does Israel's government get away with cutting off fuel to civilians? Why do world governments not censure the State of Israel for keeping over 1 million people in a state of perpetual siege?
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/7/2008 9:30:06 AM
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TheosCentric
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It's Hamas' fault.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/7/2008 9:33:41 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
It's Hamas' fault.
Ccoppenbarger, I have found a link from which one may download the PDF-format report on the terrible suffering of Gaza civilians I just alluded to.
I will excerpt a part here.
The blockade is destroying public service infrastructure in Gaza. The Israeli government prevents the repair and maintenance of the electricity and water service infrastructure in Gaza by prohibiting the import of spare parts. The impact of this is amplified by Israel’s parallel punitive restrictions on fuel and electricity to Gaza. Hospitals cannot generate electricity to keep lifesaving equipment working or to generate oxygen, while 40-50 million litres of sewage continues to pour into the sea daily 14. In September 2007, an UNRWA survey in the Gaza Strip revealed that there was a nearly 80% failure rate in schools grades four to nine, with up to 90% failure rates in Mathematics 15. In January 2008, UNICEF reported that schools in Gaza had been cancelling classes that were high on energy consumption, such as IT, science labs . . . '
In other words, Gazan children have limited access to electricity to light up their bedrooms if they wish to study at night, Gazan homes cannot be warmed during the winter....
If a Palestinian government had the power and means to do this to an Israeli enclave, what would the world - America and its leaders and people - do or say?
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/7/2008 9:38:43 AM
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TheosCentric
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I was being sarcastic.
At any rate, the opposite side is that the people elected Hamas to take care of them, shouldn't they take care of the problem?
Here's the problem with that view. The main power supply comes from Israel. Fuel, water, food all comes from Israel. Israel limits those supplies in an effort to bully Hamas and punish over a million people for the sins of the government.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israeli war crimes - more news - 3/7/2008 9:40:34 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
I was being sarcastic.
At any rate, the opposite side is that the people elected Hamas to take care of them, shouldn't they take care of the problem?
Here's the problem with that view. The main power supply comes from Israel. Fuel, water, food all comes from Israel. Israel limits those supplies in an effort to bully Hamas and punish over a million people for the sins of the government.
I know you were. But I thought you'd be interested in that link.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Who's hands is the blood on? - 3/7/2008 10:35:12 AM
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TheosCentric
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Okay, so, Hamas claims responsibility, but gives no further details.
A previously unknown group somehow affiliated with Hezbollah in Lebanon claimed responsibility yesterday.
Which is it? Who's really responsible?
Here's a hint: he's now dead.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Who's hands is the blood on? - 3/7/2008 10:59:51 AM
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TheosCentric
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Sources: Israel attack linked to Hezbollah
JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Sources in Gaza say the deadly attack on a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem was planned by a group called the Free Men of Galilee -- an operation with purported ties to Hezbollah, the Shiite militant group in Lebanon.
Eight people died Thursday in the bloody attack. A Jerusalem police spokesman on Friday identified the shooter as Ala Abu Dehein from East Jerusalem's Jabel Mukaber neighborhood.
Police said the gunman was employed as a driver and held an identity card that Israel issues to Palestinians who live in East Jerusalem.
The gunman lived in East Jerusalem, part of Israel, but we close the West Bank and Gaza. I fail to see the logic in that.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Who's hands is the blood on? - 3/7/2008 11:20:51 AM
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stamper_ben
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East Jerusalem - An ARAB neighborhood, You left that out.
Also left out this tidbit...
quote:
Sources in Gaza say Thursday's deadly attack on a Jewish seminary in Jerusalem was planned by a group called the Free Men of Galilee -- an operation with purported ties to Hezbollah, the Shiite militant group in Lebanon.
The information was provided to CNN amid news reports that Hamas, the Palestinian movement that runs Gaza, claimed responsibility for the attack.
Edited TOS 8
The sources say the shooter was a member of Hamas but was acting on marching orders from outside Gaza and the West Bank. Hezbollah is based in Lebanon; Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal is exiled in Syria.
Hezbollah and Hamas. separate groups, but equally deadly to Jews!
< Message edited by Kath -- 3/7/2008 6:29:03 PM >
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Who's hands is the blood on? - 3/7/2008 12:09:15 PM
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TheosCentric
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Ben I can only post three paragraphs of a news article. It's up to us to visit the source for more info.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Who's hands is the blood on? - 3/7/2008 12:10:57 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10857
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
Ben I can only post three paragraphs of a news article. It's up to us to visit the source for more info.
And to clarify your post that is exactly what I did. Didn't cherry pick the paragraphs either....
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Who's hands is the blood on? - 3/7/2008 6:19:50 PM
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Kath
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
Ben I can only post three paragraphs of a news article. It's up to us to visit the source for more info.
And to clarify your post that is exactly what I did. Didn't cherry pick the paragraphs either....
Ben, please don't post more than 3 paragraphs. Thanks.
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Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/8/2008 2:52:59 PM
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TheosCentric
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Israelis want to Talk to Hamas
When paramedic Yerach Tucker arrived at the Mercaz Harav yeshiva in Jerusalem last Thursday night, gunshots were still cracking through the halls. As he inched closer to the front door, a stream of young men frantically poured out of the Jewish seminary, their shirts stained with blood. Tucker ducked behind a bus, waited for the shooting to stop, and then crept with his team through the front gates. Inside the school's library, he found students lying slumped at their desks, heads collapsed over their books. "You couldn't see the floor," Tucker recalled. "It was covered in red." Outside, news filtered through the growing crowd that militants in Gaza had celebrated the shooting with their own bursts of gunfire. "We bless the operation," Hamas said in a statement. "It will not be the last." Tucker looked on as an angry mob of ultra-Orthodox men broke into a roar and began to shout, "Death to the Arabs!"
With eight students dead and nine more wounded, the attack was Jerusalem's worst in four years. Tucker, like most Israelis, says he hopes his military will hit back hard--even if it's not clear whether the gunman, an Arab from East Jerusalem, was working on his own. Yet when it comes to longer-term policy toward the Islamists, the paramedic just sighs. "Hamas controls everything in Gaza--we can never finish them off," he says. "They run the place. I don't want to talk to terrorists, but what can you do? Eventually we'll have to talk to them." In the United States, the notion of face-to-face talks with Hamas, which the State Department classifies as a terrorist organization, has long been a political third rail. Yet in the Jewish state a growing chorus of security officials, academics and regular Israelis like Tucker have begun calling for negotiations with the Islamists. In a Haaretz-Dialog poll last month, 64 percent of Israelis said they supported direct talks; among those who belong to the country's dovish Labor Party, 72 percent favor negotiations. Yet even among those surveyed from the hawkish Likud Party, almost half--48 percent--said they favor a face-to-face dialogue. Already in recent weeks, even as the two sides have traded some of the most ferocious bombardments in months, a number of nongovernmental channels have opened between Israelis and the Islamists.
The numbers are a reflection of the Israeli public's growing frustration at what they see as a failing Gaza policy. Since the Islamists won power in parliamentary elections two years ago, Israel and the United States have enforced a punishing embargo on the coastal strip, hoping support for Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and his moderate West Bank allies could help turn public opinion against Hamas. Yet the Islamists have survived and learned to effectively play the spoiler, sabotaging Abbas's peace talks with a few well-placed attacks. Israeli military raids into Gaza have similarly backfired. After Israeli troops killed more than 50 Palestinian civilians in Gaza operations last week, international public opinion turned sharply critical. "Hamas is not going to disappear," says Shlomo Brom, a former Israeli military chief of strategic planning. "They're not Al Qaeda; they're a national political movement." Brom, who favors indirect negotiations with Hamas, says he believes a dialogue could help moderate the Islamists. Damascus-based Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal told NEWSWEEK last year that his organization would also be open to direct talks, as long as there are no preconditions.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/10/2008 1:00:18 PM
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rowsdower
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I blame Hamas and the Palestinian leadership for this mess, period. Israel cannot be held accountable for the sins of Hamas. It is because of their barbaric policies that Israel responds with force and innocent people get hurt. And as horrible as any civilian casualties are, Israel cannot survive as a nation with Hamas in power. There will never be peace as long as thugs like Hamas are in power. It will never happen. The burden for peace is on the Palestinian side. If they would take the high road, pull down their rockets, stop sending young women and men with bombs strapped to them into civilian areas, I guarantee you they would have open arms and cooperation for peace. To think otherwise, to blame Israel, is to be either naive or in denial.
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/10/2008 3:34:36 PM
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TheosCentric
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'My Heart Is in Gaza'
Gaza Baptist Church used to draw hundreds of Palestinian worshipers to its two Sunday services. But on a recent Sunday in January, less than 10 people risked attending the only evangelical church in the 25-mile coastal strip.
Palestinian evangelicals, a group of hundreds living among 1.5 million Muslims, have been fleeing the Gaza Strip for the West Bank in response to increased violence and threats from Islamic extremists. In October, Rami Ayyad, the 29-year-old manager of Gaza's only Christian bookstore, was kidnapped and murdered. Then on February 15, a group of 14 masked gunmen forcibly entered the ymca offices and set off a bomb in the library, burning thousands of books.
"In Gaza, when you say, 'The Lord is my shepherd,' you have to mean it literally," said Hanna Massad, displaced pastor of the Baptist church. "The Lord is the only one who can protect you." Massad left Gaza in November for personal safety; eight families in his church fled with him.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/20/2008 1:30:43 PM
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TheosCentric
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McCain backs Israeli reprisals in Gaza
SDEROT, Israel - Touring a war-battered town, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said Wednesday he understands Israel's tough response to Palestinian rocket fire, adding that there is no point in negotiating with the Gaza Strip's Islamic Hamas regime.
The Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting also praised the moderate Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, saying he is committed to reaching a peace deal with Israel — though McCain is not meeting Palestinians this time.
McCain's visit to Israel is part of a weeklong trip through the Middle East and Europe. After a day of meetings with Israeli leaders, he visited Sderot, the southern Israeli border town that has been the target of thousands of crude Palestinian rockets in recent years.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/20/2008 1:34:03 PM
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TheosCentric
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Rights group challenges Israel’s airport security
JERUSALEM - Israel's renowned airline security faced a legal challenge Wednesday from a civil rights group charging that its practice of ethnic profiling is racist because it singles out Arabs for tougher treatment.
At a Supreme Court hearing, civil rights lawyers demanded an end to the policy, which they say violates Israeli law. Such profiling is illegal in the U.S., where passengers must be singled out for security checks on a random basis.
But some terrorism experts say Israel's measures are effective precisely because they take ethnicity into account — and warn that equality at the airport could cost lives.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/20/2008 1:52:22 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10857
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quote:
JERUSALEM - Israel's renowned airline security faced a legal challenge Wednesday from a civil rights group charging that its practice of ethnic profiling is racist because it singles out Arabs for tougher treatment.
At a Supreme Court hearing, civil rights lawyers demanded an end to the policy, which they say violates Israeli law. Such profiling is illegal in the U.S., where passengers must be singled out for security checks on a random basis.
But some terrorism experts say Israel's measures are effective precisely because they take ethnicity into account — and warn that equality at the airport could cost lives. Yeah. Don't they know like we do here in the US that it is the blue haired grandmothers who are the real terrorists?
Besides, those little old ladies are MUCH easier to pull out of line in the terminal than an 18-40 mid-east looking man. 
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/22/2008 11:27:52 AM
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Marcus.
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So much for the two-state thing: PA stunt to flood Israel with "refugees"
By Israel Insider staff March 18, 2008
The Palestinian Authority is planning to mark Israel's 60th anniversary by calling on all Palestinians living abroad to converge on Israel by land, sea and air, the Jerusalem Post reported. The plan, drawn by Ziad Abu Ein, a senior Fatah operative and Deputy Minister for Prisoners' Affairs in the PA, states that the Palestinians have decided to implement United Nations Resolution 194, which deals with the refugees, unilaterally.
Israel Insider
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/22/2008 11:30:05 AM
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Marcus.
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Livni gets Litigious: Sue the Palestinian Authority, it's not a state yet
By Israel Insider staff March 16, 2008
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni ruled Sunday that the Palestinian Authority has no diplomatic immunity against facing lawsuits and other court action In Israel. More than 54 petitions against the PA have been filed in courts around Israel in connection with its involvement in terror attacks on Israelis.
Israel Insider
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/22/2008 11:32:32 AM
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Marcus.
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Why Israel must kvetch
By David Suissa March 14, 2008
If there's one question I've heard a thousand times from Jews all over, it is this: Why is Israel so bad at PR? I know that when Jews ask me that question, they're also saying, "Suissa, you're in the business, can't you do something?"
Jewish emotion never ceases to move me. I look at the pain in people's eyes when they see how the world hates us even after thousands of bombs land on our cities; I see our collective grief when Jews are murdered; I read the passionate e-mails exhorting us to stand up to our enemies, or those encouraging us to make peace with our enemies, and it's clear that Jews are anything but indifferent.
One thing Jews are always peeved about is Israeli PR. We want to know why the world continues to hate us, why we can't seem to get any credit for the good that we do, and why our image seems to get worse every year.
Israel Insider
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/28/2008 8:08:23 AM
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TheosCentric
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Ben-Eliezer: Israel trying to revive talks with Syria
Infrastructure Minister Benjamin Ben-Eliezer said Friday that Israel has been making efforts to bring Syria back to the negotiating table.
Ben-Eliezer spoke just days after Prime Minister Ehud Olmert hinted that Israel might be holding - or planning to hold secret talks with Syria.
"All efforts are being made to bring Syria to the negotiating table in order to sign a peace treaty," Ben-Eliezer told Israel Radio.
"We know exactly what the price would be," he added - namely, Israel's return of the Golan Heights, a strategic plateau captured from Syria in the 1967 Six Day War.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Israelis want to Talk to Hamas - 3/28/2008 8:11:24 AM
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TheosCentric
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Mashaal says willing to consider truce
Exiled Damascus-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, in a communiqué to Arab leaders, expressed willingness to seriously consider the possibility of an over-all calm with Israel, according to a report Friday in the London-based daily Al Hayat, which said that the message was timed to coincide with the Arab League summit scheduled to take place in Syria's capital over the weekend.
According to the report, Mashaal defended the firing of Kassam and Grad rockets at Israel, a practice which was criticized by some of the Arab leaders, as well as by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, who called them "pointless."
"There is no escaping the truth that the rockets in Gaza and the limited weaponry in the hands of the resistance are meant for defending our people and our land and are a response to the occupation and aggression," Mashaal wrote. However, he added, "All of the factions of the Palestinian resistance have expressed their willingness to seriously examine the issue of a calm, provided that it is overall, concurrent and mutual."
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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