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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/21/2007 2:12:57 PM
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DahBassSinger
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From: Southern California
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I'm having problems I guess in reading this, what is a Reformed Charismatic? I'm a Pentecostal and I have no problems at all believing and knowing that the Gifts of the Spirit are for today.
I recently took a short drive into down town Los Angeles, to 312 Azusa Street, where Pentecost and Revival happened in 1906 and I can tell you first hand that the Holy Spirit is still there today, His presence is just as strong as I've ever felt the Holy Spirit. I am organizing a field trip for our congregation for a prayer vigil on the eve of Pentecost.
Anyone interested in the information on the Revival on Azusa Street check out… http://www.ag.org/enrichmentjournal/199904/026_azusa.cfm
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/21/2007 3:19:37 PM
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Gloryandgrace
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Hey John:
Check out Sovereign grace ministries, they have excellent music, reformed but definitely open to gifts.
By the way, there are still plenty of reformed that will skin the charismatics over the gifts and abuses therein. But I have yet to see them write an article about the reformed-charismatics and any abuses. Some are full on cessationists so they will jettison most any testimony.
http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/21/2007 6:39:44 PM
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rosswell59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DahBassSinger
I'm having problems I guess in reading this, what is a Reformed Charismatic? I'm a Pentecostal and I have no problems at all believing and knowing that the Gifts of the Spirit are for today.
I recently took a short drive into down town Los Angeles, to 312 Azusa Street, where Pentecost and Revival happened in 1906 and I can tell you first hand that the Holy Spirit is still there today, His presence is just as strong as I've ever felt the Holy Spirit. I am organizing a field trip for our congregation for a prayer vigil on the eve of Pentecost.
Anyone interested in the information on the Revival on Azusa Street check out… http://www.ag.org/enrichmentjournal/199904/026_azusa.cfm
Reformed means that you follow Calvinist doctrines.
Yours in Christ,
Ross
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/22/2007 1:50:39 PM
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DaveW
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John: there is a charismatic renewal group specifically for those of Reform Theology background: Presbyterian Reformed Ministries International www.prmi.org
My wife and I assisted (mostly in the songleading area) at several of their congregational renewal events in the 90s.
They also have teaching retreats called the Dunamis Project. From their website:
Dunamis is the Greek term for "power." The Dunamis Project is a series of six events conducted in various strategic locations in North America, South America, the United Kingdom and Asia. Each event is for four or five days and is designed to equip clergy and laity in the gifts and power of the Holy Sprit. The purpose of the Dunamis Project is to fulfill Jesus' promise to His disciples in Luke 24:48-49:
"You are witnesses of these things. And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high."
The teaching of the Dunamis Project has been forged from the Scriptures, is applicable in a Presbyterian and Reformed context, has been proven in ministry and is informed by 200 years of renewal and revival movements.
The Dunamis Project involves a 4-5 day intensive training event that takes place twice a year, in the same location. It generally takes three years to finish the whole series. The workshop environment embraces prayer, trust, mutual accountability and a full expression of the spiritual gifts for the advancement of the Kingdom of God.
A Dunamis Project Manual is provided for every event. The manual includes expanded outlines of the teaching sessions and will be a useful resource in equipping others for ministry in congregations.
Check out their web site. I hope you find what you are looking for there.
_____________________________
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/23/2007 12:16:05 PM
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DahBassSinger
Posts: 352
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quote:
I'm having problems I guess in reading this, what is a Reformed Charismatic? I'm a Pentecostal and I have no problems at all believing and knowing that the Gifts of the Spirit are for today.
Thank you Ross for the explanition. "Reformed means that you follow Calvinist doctrines."
I guess that's us... Penteterians, or Presbycostals, huh? LOL
There is a real movement within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) towards a more Pentecostal beliefs, doctrine, and worship style. Out Presbytaries are not happy about that, but it in a large part their doings that has led to a loss in membership from all causes of 40,000 souls a year from our membership rolls.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/25/2007 12:33:16 AM
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johnkw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DahBassSinger
I guess that's us... Penteterians, or Presbycostals, huh? LOL
There is a real movement within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) towards a more Pentecostal beliefs, doctrine, and worship style. Out Presbytaries are not happy about that, but it in a large part their doings that has led to a loss in membership from all causes of 40,000 souls a year from our membership rolls.
I've heard of this, second hand. I don't understand your last sentence. What is an "Out Presbytery?"
_____________________________
All that is gold does not glitter.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/25/2007 2:11:32 AM
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DahBassSinger
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Sorry, I fat fingered that, it should read... 'our presbytery'. Besides I can type well at all.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/31/2007 1:41:20 PM
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johnkw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DahBassSinger
Sorry, I fat fingered that, it should read... 'our presbytery'. Besides I can type well at all.
It's exciting to hear of this movement within the PCUSA.
Is there a similar movement in the PCA or the Orthodox PC?
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/31/2007 7:00:02 PM
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DahBassSinger
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The PC in America are so tight they squeek, I don't think you will ever see any expression of joy in worship there, I hope I'm wrong. They are a very hard line and real snobs.
If anyone was to raise their hands during worship, or shout Amen! I think the pastor would pass right out on the spot. That is my experience with the PCA group in our area anyway.
I can't speak of any of the other Presbyterians XYZ's out there. I'm a member and serving in a PC USA church and I know there is a Pentecostal movement there for sure. God knows we need it. Amen.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 6/4/2007 1:47:03 AM
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johnkw
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I visited a PCA church in San Francisco, and while they didn't raise any hands when I was there, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened one of these days.
One of my points in raising this question is to say somehow that Sola Scriptura (or pick your favorite 'Sola') does not equal boring worship.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 6/5/2007 11:19:44 PM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 634
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quote:
Are you out there?
A former "pope" of our denomination survived an acrimonious breakup of a predecessor organization that was long on zeal and short on wisdom. He concluded that enduring works of God needed solid cognitive foundations, and enrolled in what my pastor jovially calls "reform school" -- Reformed Theological Seminary. My son's pastor attended classes with Rice, and reports that this gent, who was responsible for more than 100 churches, quietly sat in the back of the class and took copious notes, even while the other students / preacher boys tried to impress / schmooze with the teacher.
Like any other denomination, Every Nation International has its struggles, its skeletons in the closet. Yet if God didn't use fallen men, what kind could He use?
We have a denominational respect for Reformed theology, combined with a charismatic worship style and passion for student evangelism. My home church, King's Park International Church, also exemplifies the inclusive nature of God's family. Our demographics accurately reflect the population blend in Durham, NC. OK, so I've had to learn to clap on the off-beat. Small price to pay for belonging to a family that resembles the worshiping community of the Book of Revelation, where all nations, tribes, and tongues surround the Throne.
God seeks those whose passion is to worship Him "in Spirit and in Truth." See also II Chron. 16:9. Stir an optimistic eschatology into the wisdom imparted by God's truth, and the power of His Spirit, and the result is rather exciting!
Come worship with us next time you're in Durham, NC. I'm the baldest usher.
_____________________________
Tutto posso in colui che me da la forza! (Fil. 4:13)
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 6/5/2007 11:24:55 PM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
I guess that's us... Penteterians, or Presbycostals, huh? LOL
I did my best to raise my kids in both traditions, as calvinistic charismatics, or pentecostal presbyterians. When they went to college, tho, in a fit of adolescent independence, they embraced the PCA church.
Well, since hard-core calvinists retain more than 90% of their kids, even while baptists lose 80% of theres and since I want believing grandkids, I'm glad they fished in that gene pool. My daughter, in fact, married a dynamic young man she met through the campus calvinist club (Reformed University Fellowship).
_____________________________
Tutto posso in colui che me da la forza! (Fil. 4:13)
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 6/7/2007 9:14:34 PM
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JaredMeister
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quote:
The PC in America are so tight they squeek, I don't think you will ever see any expression of joy in worship there, I hope I'm wrong. They are a very hard line and real snobs.
If anyone was to raise their hands during worship, or shout Amen! I think the pastor would pass right out on the spot. That is my experience with the PCA group in our area anyway.
I'm sorry for your experience in the PCA. I'm in the PCA, and I have seen PCA churches all over the spectrum. Some more traditional, others more contemporary. I attended one PCA church in which hand raising was commonplace.
While I'm not "charismatic" in the proper sense, I believe people should be excited about worship. I think contemporary music forms should be encouraged and practiced, while still retaining the elements and depth of older forms of worship.
The Psalms say over and over again to raise your hands in worship, and to leap for joy. I don't see many ways of getting around that.
_____________________________
~ Jared
"I find your lack of faith disturbing."
-- Darth Vader
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 6/12/2007 3:36:11 PM
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johnkw
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
quote:
Are you out there?
God seeks those whose passion is to worship Him "in Spirit and in Truth." See also II Chron. 16:9. Stir an optimistic eschatology into the wisdom imparted by God's truth, and the power of His Spirit, and the result is rather exciting!
Come worship with us next time you're in Durham, NC. I'm the baldest usher.
Sounds very 'happy clappy' (as a South African Anglican couple once described to us). I love it!
I'll look you up if I'm in the area.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 4/29/2008 11:20:38 AM
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rapturefish
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Hm, I'm assessing this at the moment, having been in both reformed churches and charismatic/Pentecostal ones.
I'd probably say that I'm not a pure calvinist because I'd agree with different aspects of both Calvinist and Arminian points. The bible asserts both the sovereignty of God in our salvation and the responsibility of man to work out that salvation, and I believe that ultimately any working out of that salvation is enabled by Him and all credit goes to him.
I also believe in the continuation of the supernatural gifts and don't believe that these things are contradictory. Why can we not have the best of both worlds? The teaching of the bible is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. That revelation is complete. That doesn't rule out supernatural gifts and scripture doesn't rule it out either. The gifts have a place that does not go against the completion of the canon I believe, as seen in 1 Corinthians 12-14, prophecy, etc. has a place of encouragement and exhortation, and in other places in the NT we see that these gifts were useful for specific guidance for individual believers in regard to certain situations, without adding new revelation or teaching to the bible.
I see them as complementary. How often do I hear of reformed church people asking about the subject of the will of God? The bible shows how we ought to live as God's people. It doesn't always give specific guidance to individual situations in the here and now directly however, though scripture does speak to people at some of those times. While a lot of the time commonsense decisions in accordance with God's character as set out in the bible are fine there are times when people struggle for specific guidance and the bible isn't speaking one way or the other. Gifts like prophecy, etc. do help in this regard on occasion.
On the other side, I see the emphasis on the here and now of charismatics and Pentecostals to the point where people can wax and wane in their walk because they don't have the solid grounding of the word for a foundation for belief. There is the temptation to faddism and chasing after the next great supernatural experience rather than remaining steadfast no matter whether the supernatural happens or not. There is a lot of emphasis on doing rather than being I've found, and while this is not true of all c/P churches from what I've experienced this becomes unhealthy. One seems to find it easy to go with the expectation and sense of positive talk and not go back to the hard truths in scripture, that it's not all great and wonderful now like heaven on earth, there is also the sense of the 'not yet' in scripture - life is hard, and we should acknowledge it even while we retain a vision of kingdom hope and expectation.
I hope people can move beyond these two sides and see that it can work to put the two together, that they are not contradictory but complementary and even necessary for the church to move forward in a time where we need to be both strong in the word and open to the Spirit in all his workings.
blessings,
RF !^)
_____________________________
-- rapturefish --
One happy barramundi  [<><]
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 4/29/2008 12:14:09 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
I would fall into that reformed-charismatic category.
Unless I have missed someone it appears you are the only on who fits the answer to the OP.
Would you care to share how you came to where you now are?
Peace
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 4/30/2008 1:22:57 PM
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inchristsblood
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I grew up with very conservative Christian roots. Our family predominately attended Methodist and Baptist churches and one instance of a Lutheran church. I never really was taught about the gifts of the Spirit. 6 years ago I began the most incredible journey with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There are most indeed gifts of the Spirit acting today as I can witness to personally. It all began with a visit from the Almighty, His Holy presence - a 24/7 presence and I haven't been the same since Nor would I want to return to my old self. I started reading the Bible like I was devouring the best thing I ever ate. One of the first things I found interesting was that the Apostles would stay with new believers until they received the Holy Spirit, even if it took days. I don't know about you all, but I have never seen that in any of the churches I attended. We are baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but something seems lacking here and I think it's because we are always trying to put things into a time box. From my understanding, Pentecostals are more concerned about receiving the Holy Spirit compared to the conservative churches I am accustomed to. I am a conservative, who believes in the gifts of the Spirit.
Don't know if this is the type of response you want.....but I gave it a shot :)
_____________________________
ISA 44:5 One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/2/2008 4:34:57 PM
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Yoelnatan780
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I am a 5 pointer and on Fire for God..does that count?
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elôi elôi lama sabachthani o estin methermçneuomenon o theos mou o theos mou eis ti enkatelipes me
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/2/2008 6:30:09 PM
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godogs
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quote:
ORIGINAL: inchristsblood
It all began with a visit from the Almighty, His Holy presence - a 24/7 presence and I haven't been the same since Nor would I want to return to my old self. I started reading the Bible like I was devouring the best thing I ever ate. One of the first things I found interesting was that the Apostles would stay with new believers until they received the Holy Spirit, even if it took days.
ICB,
What do you mean by "His Holy presence - a 24/7"? Do you think this was brought on by a devouring of the word?
Godogs
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/2/2008 10:21:32 PM
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inchristsblood
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Greetings godogs,
No I would say it was the other way around. God's presence precipitated diving into His Word. I hadn't really picked up a Bible in 20 years other than going to church now and then. By 24/7 I mean I felt His presence constantly. I rarely slept. I felt Him even when I slept. I really thought that maybe I was going to die and I wasn't ill. I was questioning "what is it Lord" constantly. There came a review of my life, a purging, a lot of tears, reading His Word, prayer and poetry to the Lord. I began to feel Spiritual "hugs' and major tugs keeping me on my knees in adoration and worship and praise of the God who made me, the One who saved me. I see His Light when I pray and have had other experiences that I can't really explain. I have been changed in a major way. My heart had become very hard for a number of reasons prior to this. Perhaps this was my illness. It's been a painful and beautiful journey. If it's possible to be raptured and remain on earth to tell others about it, this would be it. My soul yells out "Jesus Is Lord"!
ICB
_____________________________
ISA 44:5 One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/2/2008 11:13:40 PM
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elliemaejune
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rosswell59
John,
I'm not a Calvinist except for election in salvation and I don't believe in tongues but I have heard of some who do. I think though that tongues as we know them today came through Arminian circles. I believe this is because of their false notion that man has the capacity to work up faith within himself. Tongues are a logical result of the kind of innovations which can come from such a belief.
Wow. I've been a Christian since 1974, and I believe that the charismatic gifts are still in use today (all of them, not just tongues), and I have never heard anyone say that "man has the capacity to work up faith within himself." I don't even know what that means.
I believe in the charismatic gifts because I don't see anything in Scripture that says that they would not continue once the Holy Spirit was given on the day of Pentecost. I read that they will continue until the "perfect" comes, and I believe that means Jesus, not the Bible.
_____________________________
Born again since 1974
Married to Mr. Ellie for over 30 years
Mom to 2 dds and 1 dsil
Caretaker of 2 cats, 1 French bulldog, and 6 hermit crabs
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/3/2008 6:53:58 AM
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godogs
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ICB,
Awesome testimony, thank you for sharing. I know I want to feel closer to the Lord, but too often I am just too lazy to open His Word.
Godogs
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/4/2008 12:42:07 AM
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inchristsblood
Posts: 41
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Godogs,
I pray you find the closeness with The Lord you are seeking. He knows what you need and desire.
Many blessings to you in Jesus' name.
ICB
_____________________________
ISA 44:5 One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.
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RE: Are there any Reformed Charismatics out there? - 5/7/2008 9:25:51 AM
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mcleod
Posts: 560
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Please don't let my in- laws know about it . They will go completely bezeerk.
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