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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:12:03 PM
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4ChristisLove
Posts: 145
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
I don't think God's answers in scripture are enough. I need more information, more revelation, more extra-special knowledge.
I want more than what has been provided. I need more power.
I'm bored. I need more excitement, more creativity, more emotional thrills.
I need proof to deepen my faith. Scripture doesn't cut it. I need to see something tangible. I need to see signs and wonders. I need to have mystical experiences.
I don't like where I'm at. I need to reach a higher level and a new spiritual plane, no matter how that's achieved.
Me.
Me.
Me.
For some reason, that reminded me of this passage:
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice
-1 Kings 19:11-12
This is saying that God isn't present in JUST extraordinary things. God is where you least expect Him too. That's my take.  It's not saying he doesn't work through extrordinary things, just not at that moment.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:12:43 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1494
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quote:
I did dispute personal experiences such as 'drunk in the spirit' Biblically and in context.
No, I disagree with you, lw.
You took a group of verses and chose to ignore the very clear statements made in it because it doesn't line up with your idea of God.
Acts 2:15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose.
Peter couldn't be clearer. He acknowledged that the onlookers were supposing the disciples were drunk.
Just because being drunk with alcohol is a sin does not mean that God would not fill His children with so much joy that they are like drunk with His HS.
The issue is about whose control will we put ourselves under - alcohol or the HS?
I don't think you can ignore a clear, first-hand witness and what was being seen and said at that event, at least I personally choose not to. You have the liberty to disagree though and that's ok.
God Bless,
Stace
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/17/2008 5:19:48 PM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:18:03 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2005
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One pastor was so "drunk in the spirit" that he ran over a handful of trash cans and drove into a neighbor's car on his way home.
Would you consider that to be, well, of God?
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-Ben-
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:18:43 PM
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SD456
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quote:
People more interested in on what is on the Master's table than in the Master Himself.
Except that when we are at the Master's table He's doing the serving and giving us what He wants. God is so good to us, isn't He?
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:20:10 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1494
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
One pastor was so "drunk in the spirit" that he ran over a handful of trash cans and drove into a neighbor's car on his way home.
Would you consider that to be, well, of God?
The problem wasn't with the HS filling him, it was that he should have had someone drive him home *L*
Good thing that at pentecost they didn't have cars to drive.... 
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:20:20 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2005
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
People more interested in on what is on the Master's table than in the Master Himself.
Except that when we are at the Master's table He's doing the serving and giving us what He wants. God is so good to us, isn't He?
But, as mentioned before, the crux lies in what the person is looking for. . . to be with the Master, or to eat His food. Some search for the wrong thing.
_____________________________
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:22:30 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5824
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
I don't think God's answers in scripture are enough. I need more information, more revelation, more extra-special knowledge.
I want more than what has been provided. I need more power.
I'm bored. I need more excitement, more creativity, more emotional thrills.
I need proof to deepen my faith. Scripture doesn't cut it. I need to see something tangible. I need to see signs and wonders. I need to have mystical experiences.
I don't like where I'm at. I need to reach a higher level and a new spiritual plane, no matter how that's achieved.
Me.
Me.
Me.
For some reason, that reminded me of this passage:
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice
-1 Kings 19:11-12
This is saying that God isn't present in JUST extraordinary things. God is where you least expect Him too. That's my take. It's not saying he doesn't work through extrordinary things, just not at that moment.
That's true. But quiet seems to unnerve a lot of people for some reason. It's like they are uncomfortable with themselves. I don't know. But one of the of the verses in scripture that God has used with profound effect on me at several difficult times in my life is, "Be still and know that I am God." It has had more impact on me to my very core than the most exuberant worship and praise services I experience.
Sorry, just thinking out loud...
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:26:16 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1494
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
quote:
People more interested in on what is on the Master's table than in the Master Himself.
Except that when we are at the Master's table He's doing the serving and giving us what He wants. God is so good to us, isn't He?
But, as mentioned before, the crux lies in what the person is looking for. . . to be with the Master, or to eat His food. Some search for the wrong thing.
Perhaps, but you don't know that if you can't see what's in their heart. I tend to believe it's a very, very, small percentage who do. Anyone who truly meets Jesus will WANT Jesus for Himself alone. He's way too beautiful to make one desire anything but Him.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:29:16 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1494
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
Well, I certainly agree someone should have driven dude. But, I have a hard time believing that the outpouring of the Holy Spirit would cause thousands of dollars of damage to a neighbor's car because the pastor couldn't control the wheel.
The responsibility lies with the pastor not with God. They knew what could have happened. The HS didn't drive that car or crash it, the man did.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:32:08 PM
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4ChristisLove
Posts: 145
Joined: 4/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
I don't think God's answers in scripture are enough. I need more information, more revelation, more extra-special knowledge.
I want more than what has been provided. I need more power.
I'm bored. I need more excitement, more creativity, more emotional thrills.
I need proof to deepen my faith. Scripture doesn't cut it. I need to see something tangible. I need to see signs and wonders. I need to have mystical experiences.
I don't like where I'm at. I need to reach a higher level and a new spiritual plane, no matter how that's achieved.
Me.
Me.
Me.
For some reason, that reminded me of this passage:
And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice
-1 Kings 19:11-12
This is saying that God isn't present in JUST extraordinary things. God is where you least expect Him too. That's my take. It's not saying he doesn't work through extrordinary things, just not at that moment.
That's true. But quiet seems to unnerve a lot of people for some reason. It's like they are uncomfortable with themselves. I don't know. But one of the of the verses in scripture that God has used with profound effect on me at several difficult times in my life is, "Be still and know that I am God." It has had more impact on me to my very core than the most exuberant worship and praise services I experience.
Sorry, just thinking out loud...
\
Jimbo - It's with anything (in my experience).....you can make good things bad, and take things too far.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:32:30 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2005
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
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In response to both of you at once. . .
What if instead of a car, it was a child that he hit? Would you feel different then, that it wasn't the Holy Spirit making him too joyous to drive in his own lane?
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:40:14 PM
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SD456
Posts: 1494
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
In response to both of you at once. . .
What if instead of a car, it was a child that he hit? Would you feel different then, that it wasn't the Holy Spirit making him too joyous to drive in his own lane?
You could make speculation about ALL kinds of things that go on in church and life in general. You can't make an argument after speculations.
What if a person chokes on a piece of bread during communion and dies? Is that God's fault for telling us to take communion?
What if a person gets into a car accident on their way to somewhere that the HS tells them to go? Is that God's fault because He told them to go there?
Personally I believe God would protect the child - and since nothing like that has ever happened that I've ever read or heard about in the last 2000 years of people getting drunk in the spirit, there isn't much to say about it.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 4/17/2008 5:46:50 PM >
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MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 5:44:49 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2005
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
Personally I believe God would protect the child - and since nothing like that has ever happened that I've ever read or heard about in the last 2000 years of people getting drunk in the spirit, there isn't much to say about it.
Have you ever heard of Mrs. Ella Peppard?
She was at a Benny Hinn crusade, and someone was "slain in the spirit" and landed on her and killed her.
*Edit, I see you edited your post to include the "drunk" part. Fair enough, but my point still stand."
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/17/2008 6:16:55 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
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Drunkenness is a SIN. Let me repeat: DRUNKENNESS IS A SIN.
How do we know? The Bible states it plainly enough:
Gal 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; Neither the sexually immoral nor idolater nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Yet some here are attributing this sinful behavior to the Holy Spirit. By doing so, they are saying that the Holy Spirit will contradict Himself and cause people to behave in a sinful manner.
It doesn't get much more clear than that of just how messed up this is. To accuse the Holy Spirit of causing the apostles to act sinfully drunk and accuse the Holy Spirit of causing someone else to drive 'drunk' and damage a neighbor's property is absolutely disgraceful and it's a lie. There is no such thing as 'drunk in the Spirit' in the Bible.
Let's replace 'drunk' with something else from the above lists and see if this sounds right:
Selfish ambition in the Spirit
Envy in the Spirit
Orgy in the Spirit
Witchcraft in the Spirit
Prostitution in the Spirit
Adultery in the Spirit
Does that sit well with anyone? If not, then 'drunk in the Spirit' shouldn't sit well with you, either.
If a manifestation is leading someone to behave in a sinful manner and is contradictory to God, you can be sure it's not the Holy Spirit at work. There are only two choices here: Believe the Bible, or believe people who contradict the Bible, but no one can have it both ways.
What's next? Cocaine in the Spirit? Meth in the Spirit? Heroine in the Spirit? Sure... why not.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/17/2008 6:41:42 PM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/18/2008 10:00:16 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
as some one who's mom got a broken neck from a Drunk Driver, the fact that you would joke about that in relation to anything of God is astonding.  I guess we forget that one of the fruit of the spirit is SELF CONTROL. If some one is 'filled' with the spirit they should have enough self control to be able to drive.
You have it right. Lest anyone minimize this, I did an ESV search on self-control and got TEN New Testament verses, nine supporting the virtue of self-control and one describing the people of the last days from the third chapter of 2 Timothy. Here's 2 Timothy 3:3: heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, (ESV)
It must be pretty hard for some to have heard false teaching and have to go against TEN New Testament verses which tell us the godly will exhibit self-control.
Since the book of Acts is popular--Acts 24:25 And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, "Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you."
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/18/2008 12:06:28 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
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This should serve as a strong warning, but I doubt it will be heard:
Isa 29:9 Be delayed and wait. Blind yourselves and be blind. They become drunk, but not with wine; They stagger, but not with strong drink. 10 For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep, He has shut your eyes, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, the seers. 11 And the entire vision shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, "Please read this," he will say, " I cannot, for it is sealed."
Jer 51:37 And Babylon will become a heap of ruins, a haunt of jackals, An object of horror and hissing, without inhabitants. 38 They will roar together like young lions, They will growl like lions' clubs. 39 When they become heated up, I shall serve them their banquet and make them drunk, that they may become jubilant and may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," declares the Lord. 40 "And I shall bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams together with male goats."
The Biblical examples of being made 'drunk' are judgments and condemnation being poured out. Think feelings of jubilation are proof of Holy Spirit blessings? Think again. This manifestation comes complete with feelings of jubilation... and then they were destroyed.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/18/2008 12:30:14 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
sue244: as some one who's mom got a broken neck from a Drunk Driver, the fact that you would joke about that in relation to anything of God is astonding. I guess we forget that one of the fruit of the spirit is SELF CONTROL. If some one is 'filled' with the spirit they should have enough self control to be able to drive.
Agreed. *NOT FUNNY* Making light of drunk driving is appalling. But then to go on and attribute the sinful and destructive behavior of drunkenness to the Holy Spirit is beyond appalling. There are just no words for that.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/18/2008 12:37:02 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/18/2008 12:32:19 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1319
Joined: 2/1/2007
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The verses apply perfectly to Toronto and related "manifestations" where they act like dogs, bark, roar and paw like lions, laugh like jackals and have long periods of "sleep" on the floor. The verses support that there is indeed something "real" being experienced but it is a judgment.
There's really no room for denying that people still are seeking experience over a walk with God that may not seem so glitzy.
There are testimonies that can be found online of those who crossed the line into these things and have come back out of them wondering how they could have thought it was of God.
Thanks for the verses!
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
This should serve as a strong warning, but I doubt it will be heard:
Isa 29:9 Be delayed and wait. Blind yourselves and be blind. They become drunk, but not with wine; They stagger, but not with strong drink. 10 For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep, He has shut your eyes, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, the seers. 11 And the entire vision shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, "Please read this," he will say, " I cannot, for it is sealed."
Jer 51:37 And Babylon will become a heap of ruins, a haunt of jackals, An object of horror and hissing, without inhabitants. 38 They will roar together like young lions, They will growl like lions' clubs. 39 When they become heated up, I shall serve them their banquet and make them drunk, that they may become jubilant and may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," declares the Lord. 40 "And I shall bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams together with male goats."
The Biblical examples of being made 'drunk' are judgments and condemnation being poured out. Think feelings of jubilation are proof of Holy Spirit blessings? Think again. This manifestation comes complete with feelings of jubilation... and then they were destroyed.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/18/2008 12:33:09 PM
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sue244
Posts: 322
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
This should serve as a strong warning, but I doubt it will be heard:
Isa 29:9 Be delayed and wait. Blind yourselves and be blind. They become drunk, but not with wine; They stagger, but not with strong drink. 10 For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep, He has shut your eyes, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, the seers. 11 And the entire vision shall be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, "Please read this," he will say, " I cannot, for it is sealed."
Jer 51:37 And Babylon will become a heap of ruins, a haunt of jackals, An object of horror and hissing, without inhabitants. 38 They will roar together like young lions, They will growl like lions' clubs. 39 When they become heated up, I shall serve them their banquet and make them drunk, that they may become jubilant and may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up," declares the Lord. 40 "And I shall bring them down like lambs to the slaughter, like rams together with male goats."
The Biblical examples of being made 'drunk' are judgments and condemnation being poured out. Think feelings of jubilation are proof of Holy Spirit blessings? Think again. This manifestation comes complete with feelings of jubilation... and then they were destroyed.
LW9 those are great verses. I remember I posted them as well a while back and was just gvien personal experience to counteract them. Becaues we all know that experience trumps Scripture  .
Let it serve as a warning though to those who are not blinded.
_____________________________
"It is a remarkable fact that all the heresies which have arisen in the Christian Church have had a decided tendency to 'dishonor God and to flatter man.'"
Spurgen
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/18/2008 11:31:16 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3418
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I agree, I have similar giftings as you, and the other stuff is not included. If we have these giftings than we are filled with the Holy Spirit too, and we do not bark, cluck, a whinny like a horse. Go fiqure.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
quote:
ORIGINAL: funny_girl
4Christislove,
Did you notice that they can't dispute a personal experience? They are choosing to ignore and deny it but denying it won't make this revelation power of God null and void. I do feel sorry for them and don't waste my time reading their ramblings especially if it dampens my spirit.
Thank you Lori....it's probably because they haven't had a personal experience. It does tear down the spirit. I agree.
Pretty quick to come to such conclusions. You might be surprised.
I, for one, physically see demons at times, have spoken prophetic words and have prophetic dreams, and have my own prayer language.
I, by no means, disqualify the movement of the Holy Spirit.
I do, however, disqualify things that contradict Scripture and the nature and character of God.
God is not a God of chaos.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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Maybe there needs to be a Holy Spirit test on the wheel. 
