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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/20/2008 4:33:47 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2165
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Love is emotional
No, love is a decision based on fact.
Let me ask you some questions. People have been "slain in the spirit" at an Elvis concert, a Beatles concert, and a Barry rally. What is the difference between these and a Benny Hinn rally?
Do you know where the term "mesmerized" comes from; hinit, he - Mesmer, a hypnotist - pulled the same tricks as do the "faith healers. If being "slain in the spirit" is of the spirit, wouldn't something come out of the experience that would edify the entire body?
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The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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[Deleted] - 4/21/2008 1:03:21 AM
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 2:59:24 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
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God is not a decision. I shared with you the definition of the meaning of the word 'love' in the english language. God does not need our decisions to exist. His decisions are what matters in The Kingdom of God for it is His Kingdom to Rule as He pleases.
No one claims or proposes these phenomenon of fainting at a concert to be because of God's Work; per se. However, everything that was created was created by God.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 4:25:03 AM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 3:24:27 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
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First of all, Paul is called the least among the Apostles of God for he persecuted The Church before Christ came to him.
Secondly, God can empower anyone that he desires to. He can grant that miracles are placed regardless of the falseness of the doctrine. We see that it is written regarding Balaam son beor that he was called a Prophet by the Apostle whose madness was restrained. Also it is written regarding the empowerment of the antichrist who will be granted power and authority over spiritual miracles to deceive even the elect, if that were possible. Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses with spiritual power to change the nile to blood. It was part of the Work and testing of the faith of Moses to stand such trials as these as well. Surely, the High calling of God is Great! Much is at stake to be gained or lost for all of eternity in The Kingdom of God. For The Word of God is Living and Active sharper than any double edged sword and divides between our soul and our spirit; as well. For Saul was annointed king over Israel but after displeasing God he was given a tormenting spirit as well as removed as king and replaced with David who was tested and tried unto real gold that lasts. David praised God much as recorded at Scripture and there are many verses dealing with the feelings that David endures through his trials and sins in his relationship with God.
These who are empowered may be excluded from entering paradise, though, as it is written in The Gospel regarding those who performed many miracles. The Apostles are not among those that Christ is talking about here. We have no right to Judge the persons, only discern that the doctrine is false or not. We do not have the right to disbelieve a miracle; especially when it occurs in front of us. I can see on the video that there are things happening in the physical. Can you see the wind when the trees are moved by it? But you can feel it and sense its direction. It is written that they that follow The Spirit of God are like the wind. You cannot tell where they are going or where they are coming from; but you can feel that they passed by. Because there are wheat and tares among the people. God commanded that none of the wheat be damaged.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
prophetica, ....., .john, john., whatever,
In Acts 5:16, early in the apostolic age when the church was just getting started, we read that multitudes were being healed by the apostles. Twenty-five years later Paul, the greatest of all the apostles, could not be delivered from his own troublesome thorn (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).
Though he at one time seems to have had the ability to heal others at will (Acts 28:8), as Paul neared the end of his life he showed no evidence of such a gift. He advised Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake, a common way of treating illness in that day (1 Timothy 5:23).
Later on, at the very end of his career, Paul left a beloved brother sick at Miletus (2 Timothy 4:20). He surely would have healed him if he could.
In the early pages of Acts, Jerusalem was filled with miracles. After the martyrdom of Stephen, however, no more miracles were recorded in that city. Something was changing.
The miracles of the apostolic age were not to be the pattern for succeeding generations of Christians. We have no mandate to see or perform miracles. We do have a mandate, however, to study and obey God's Word, which is able to make us wise and mature. And we do have a mandate to live by faith, not by sight (2 Corinthians 5:7).
John 14:12 records this promise from our Lord: "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go to the Father." To listen to some contemporary advocates of signs and wonders ministry you would think this promise bypassed the apostolic age and is being fulfilled in their meetings.
"Greater works" does not mean more spectacular miracles; nothing in the context of John 14 speaks of supernatural signs and wonders. What is a greater work than raising the dead? John 5:20-21 indicates it is the giving of spiritual life to sinners.
Of course, the apostles' works were greater in scope, not in quality, than those of Jesus. They took the Gospel to the ends of the known world in their day. But much of that was accomplished after miracles had begun to pass from the scene.
Some charismatics allege that if we concede that the age of miracles is past, we espouse a deficient concept of God. Jerry Horner, associate professor of biblical literature at Oral Roberts University, said, "Who in the world would want a God who has lost all of His zip? Could God do one thing in one century but not in another century?.... Has God lost all of His power?"
Has God lost His zip? Has He done nothing significant in two thousand years? That's hardly the case.
All around us we see evidence of God's marvelous work: in the transforming new birth in the lives of millions around the world who trust Christ; in daily answers to prayer; in the providential mat5ching of people and resources to bring glory to Himself; in the resilience of His church, which has survived ruthless persecution and various internal assaults through the centuries and continues to do so today.
But God has not placed spokesmen with miracle-working power in the church today. You can be sure that if He did, they wouldn't resemble the charismatic miracle workers such as those we see on television or on the tent-meeting circuit.
Why would God authenticate bad theology? Why would He give miracle power to people who teach heresy? Yet every movement today that highlights miracles as a central theme is tainted with shoddy theology, confused and inconsistent doctrine, outright heresy, or a combination of these.
Ephesians 3:20 gives a promise for our age: Our Lord "is able to do exceeding abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works with us." What God does in and through us today is not what He did in the apostolic age.
He had a special purpose for the apostles and their miracles. and that purpose was served. He also has a special purpose for us, and it will be marvelous, because He is God and what He does is always marvelous.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 3:34:35 AM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 12:16:30 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4759
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
We do not have the right to disbelieve a miracle; especially when it occurs in front of us.
Jesus warned otherwise:
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
-Matthew 24:24
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[Deleted] - 4/21/2008 12:50:34 PM
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 3:23:31 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4829
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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You guys beat me to it.. nice work.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 4:18:06 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
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By agreeing to give them the authority to rule until all of God's Words are fulfilled is written. All authority in Heaven and on earth is given to Me is written. Why have you quoted the devil's words, for he is a liar. He does not have authority except that which God has agreed to give him.
How can you, then, not know that it is a spiritual beast that rules the lower realms on earth over the nations, too, as written in Revelation that believers were called out of Babylon to be created anew in Christ Jesus unto good fruits that will last in keeping with citizenship of the city of New Jerusalem?
Therefore, the false prophet beast from the earth that performs these signs causing all of the people on earth to go under the trial of the mark of the number of his name makes war on the saints of God Most High and conquers many of them unto Martyrdom. This authority is by agreement that God had given them as written. For it is written God is testing you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
Luke 4:6
"And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."
Revelations 13:14
"And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 5:53:10 PM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 4:20:38 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
Status: offline
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Those that did not believe the testimony of the seventy that were sent to them who had power to do many miracles were condemned all the more by Christ for they were unrepentant cities.
All power comes from God, originally. He can give authority to anyone that he wishes to to test the people as it is written. The Lord is testing you to see if you love Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
We do not have the right to disbelieve a miracle; especially when it occurs in front of us.
Jesus warned otherwise:
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
-Matthew 24:24
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 4:31:45 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 4759
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
Those that did not believe the testimony of the seventy that were sent to them who had power to do many miracles were condemned all the more by Christ for they were unrepentant cities.
All power comes from God, originally. He can give authority to anyone that he wishes to to test the people as it is written. The Lord is testing you to see if you love Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
We do not have the right to disbelieve a miracle; especially when it occurs in front of us.
Jesus warned otherwise:
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
-Matthew 24:24
Are you serious? When Satan performs miracles you claim it is a test of belief from Jesus and that God is responsible for whatever marvels Satan performs??? Do you also give God credit for all evil in the world as well??????
I am unable to say more without violating TOS... But I am dusting off my shoes.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 4:38:15 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
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No, it is like electing a president. One may not like how the person elected performs in the office, but the office was ordained by agreement of God. God created everything: both Good and evil as written. They have become like us, knowing both good and evil.
I give the credit for these signs to devil and the false worldly prophet who is also known as the beast from the earth or the antichrist. For satan does what he wants to do with the authority that God allowed, of course.
Jesus said: Satan has asked you for sifting. But, I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.
Explain to me, this verse. God, by agreement of loving his enemies as we are instructed to do, does answer things that satan asks, at times. For everyone who asks receives is what Jesus said.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
Those that did not believe the testimony of the seventy that were sent to them who had power to do many miracles were condemned all the more by Christ for they were unrepentant cities.
All power comes from God, originally. He can give authority to anyone that he wishes to to test the people as it is written. The Lord is testing you to see if you love Him.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
We do not have the right to disbelieve a miracle; especially when it occurs in front of us.
Jesus warned otherwise:
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.
-Matthew 24:24
Are you serious? When Satan performs miracles you claim it is a test of belief from Jesus and that God is responsible for whatever marvels Satan performs??? Do you also give God credit for all evil in the world as well??????
I am unable to say more without violating TOS... But I am dusting off my shoes.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 6:09:51 PM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 4:53:34 PM
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wintery
Posts: 917
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
No, it is like electing a president. One may not like how the person elected performs in the office, but the office was ordained by agreement of God. God created everything: both Good and evil as written. They have become like us, knowing both good and evil.
I give the credit for these signs to satan and the false worldly prophet who is also known as the beast from the earth or the antichrist. For satan does what he wants to do with the authority that God allowed, of course.
Jesus said: Satan has asked you for sifting. But, I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.
Explain to me, this verse. God, by agreement of loving his enemies as we are instructed to do, does answer things that satan asks at times.
There's a scary teaching in there. I don't think I agree that God would keep blessing a wicked person who had turned away. After Judas Iscariot turned away from God he killed himself in his misery--that ain't doing miracles. Here's a verse about Saul. 1 Samuel 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
In the first place whatever miracles are being discussed here would have to be actual miracles and not the work of the flesh. Lying wonders wouldn't be done by God. You may be mixing up a teaching about grace continuing with a person who has sinned and confusing that with the idea that God would do powerful works through a rejected person.
God's purposes would be His own--not allowing Satan priveleges under "love your enemy"...that verse was for human to human application.
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 5:04:07 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
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i think i should read alot of this here, but i'm new here, i saw on you tube a video of this deaf girl that got healed and it looks like she experienced what everybody is talking about here could you please look at this girls video and tell me if that is what you are speaking about here, because it sure enough looks like god to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp0EQA_Qfy8&feature=related
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 5:10:49 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4829
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
i think i should read alot of this here, but i'm new here, i saw on you tube a video of this deaf girl that got healed and it looks like she experienced what everybody is talking about here could you please look at this girls video and tell me if that is what you are speaking about here, because it sure enough looks like god to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp0EQA_Qfy8&feature=related
Just saw the video, thank you for sharing, no that is not what is being discussed here. God does indeed still heal today.
I just recently (either on this page or the last one) reposted all of the YouTube clips of what we're discussing. I recommend, if you're interested in our conversation, to read at least the first two pages of this thread and then watch the clips provided as context.
God bless.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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[Deleted] - 4/21/2008 5:14:52 PM
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 5:20:11 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
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thank you it just looked to me like she fell down, didn't know why ill look at them post, im kinda new to church and they do that stuff in my church
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[Deleted] - 4/21/2008 5:21:49 PM
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 5:22:09 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4829
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
thank you it just looked to me like she fell down, didn't know why ill look at them post, im kinda new to church and they do that stuff in my church
No problem, let me know if you have any questions. God bless, I do hope you read the first few pages (if not all) of the thread and view the videos.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 5:42:22 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
i think i should read alot of this here, but i'm new here, i saw on you tube a video of this deaf girl that got healed and it looks like she experienced what everybody is talking about here could you please look at this girls video and tell me if that is what you are speaking about here, because it sure enough looks like god to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp0EQA_Qfy8&feature=related
Just saw the video, thank you for sharing, no that is not what is being discussed here. God does indeed still heal today.
I just recently (either on this page or the last one) reposted all of the YouTube clips of what we're discussing. I recommend, if you're interested in our conversation, to read at least the first two pages of this thread and then watch the clips provided as context.
God bless.
ok i found them way back there on page 19 i think, that one guy i know the church i go to has alot of their books and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M
like i was saying im new to church they told me about jesus i didnt see eny of that stuff going on but i have seen some people falling down do u thikn i shod leave that church?
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 5:53:28 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
I would heavily question your source as I would not find it biblical or of intrinsic value to God's desire for our lives.
I agree, what value is there in knowing the adage: keep your friends close, and your enemies closer?
Practical application to our lives is that bad things happen to 'good' people at times. Consider the writings of Job which predate the flood, for example. What about all of the trials that The Prophets, Jesus and all of the disciples went through to this very day? For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against powers and rulers in the darkened heavely realms.
We, too, were created with 'free' will and have some amount of authority over our decisions is what some teach.
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 6:57:09 PM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 6:04:47 PM
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schupfNoodle
Posts: 110
Joined: 7/27/2006
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Just for your information
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: ..... He responded that he saw people walking around as trees.
Provide me with Book, Chapter, and verse. I don't recall reading that in my Bible. That sounds like your own misinterpretation or paraphrasing and not scripture.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ..... So Christ continued to pray and spit on the ground following God's example in what God was doing.
And, this one too. Did you not realize that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are all the same God? Where does the Bible say that Jesus Christ continued spitting on the ground with prayer which followed God's example?
Really! Your own interpretations of God's word is quite profound and false.
Mark 8
22They came to Bethsaida, and some people brought a blind man and begged Jesus to touch him. 23He took the blind man by the hand and led him outside the village. When he had spit on the man's eyes and put his hands on him, Jesus asked, "Do you see anything?"
24He looked up and said, "I see people; they look like trees walking around."
25Once more Jesus put his hands on the man's eyes. Then his eyes were opened, his sight was restored, and he saw everything clearly.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
quote:
ORIGINAL: ..... and it is written because they did not believe that He only 'could' heal a couple of sick people.
Really?
.....
My Bible says different than what you say. Where is the proof of your statements?
Yes, really.
Mark 6
4Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown, among his relatives and in his own house is a prophet without honor." 5He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6And he was amazed at their lack of faith.
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[Deleted] - 4/21/2008 6:21:37 PM
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 7:03:22 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1395
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tall_One
[ Moses balked at serving God and God had to prove through a burning bush that it was God who spoke to Moses on the Mount. God used Moses to lead the jews out of Egypt. Due to Moses' continued disobedience to God, he was not allowed to go into the promised land and wandered the deserts with the jews in tow for 40 years until his death. Upon Moses' death, Joshua was raised up to lead the jews into the promised land, not before.
You do not know what you are talking about! Moses was a faithful servant of The Most High. You are only looking at the outside of things where you believe that he did not enter the promised land. it is written that God is our promised land. Though, I was their treasured possession. I tell you that Moses, and not us, was found with Christ at the mount of Transfiguration. Moses, and not us, was sent by God with signs and wonderous power works in Egypt. Moses, not us, wrote the Holy Pentateuch. You have neither seen His Form, nor heard His Voice. Moses did. You dare publicly dishonor one of the greatest Prophets or Elders among the Holy Chosen 24 elect elders of God, and then propose that you are loving God?
< Message edited by ..... -- 4/21/2008 7:15:35 PM >
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RE: :: Slain in the Spirit - 4/21/2008 9:58:54 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4829
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
i think i should read alot of this here, but i'm new here, i saw on you tube a video of this deaf girl that got healed and it looks like she experienced what everybody is talking about here could you please look at this girls video and tell me if that is what you are speaking about here, because it sure enough looks like god to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp0EQA_Qfy8&feature=related
Just saw the video, thank you for sharing, no that is not what is being discussed here. God does indeed still heal today.
I just recently (either on this page or the last one) reposted all of the YouTube clips of what we're discussing. I recommend, if you're interested in our conversation, to read at least the first two pages of this thread and then watch the clips provided as context.
God bless.
ok i found them way back there on page 19 i think, that one guy i know the church i go to has alot of their books and stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SgByE0pX1M
like i was saying im new to church they told me about jesus i didnt see eny of that stuff going on but i have seen some people falling down do u thikn i shod leave that church?
Both Kenneth Copeland and Kenneth Hagin are false teachers, false prophets - I recommend you check out the Word of Faith threads we have running in this forum. When we test their teachings in light of Scripture, many of their core essentials are rank heresy.
Nothing a Christian should be adhering to.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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