|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2007 11:45:47 AM
|
|
|
John_O
Posts: 8053
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: jawsmetroid
quote:
American Heritage defines LUST as an "intense or UNRESTRAINED desire or craving."
Sorry, but I go by the Greek and Hebrew definitions, not an English definition.
As a good exercise lets do so then.
Starting from:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
The word translated as "Lust After" is strongs number 1937 "epithumeo" (sorry I don't have access to the greek fonts on this machine)
It is derived from from 1909 and 2372; and means:
AV-desire 8, covet 3, lust 3, lust after 1, fain 1; 16
1) to turn upon a thing
2) to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3) to lust after, covet
3a) of those who seek things forbidden
Strongs 1909 is the word "epi" and is a preposition meaning "upon, on, at, by, before"
Strongs 2372 is the word "thumos"
AV-wrath 15, fierceness 2, indignation 1; 18
1) passion, angry, heat, anger forthwith boiling up and soon subsiding again
2) glow, ardour, the wine of passion, inflaming wine (which either drives the drinker mad or kills him with its strength)
In the context of Matt 5:28 the second meaning is the one that we are interested in (as the first makes no sense in context).
So we have a an ardor, a passion that drives the drinker mad or kills him with it's strength directed at a woman.
Looks like "Intense or unrestrained desire" to me.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2007 11:48:25 AM
|
|
|
russelp4
Posts: 92
Joined: 3/8/2007
From: Central Ohio
Status: offline
|
I am going to post 1 last time on this topic and then I will be done......
The bottomline - IMO - is that if a person feels, knows, senses, whatever, in his or her heart that masturbation is wrong or sinful, then to that person it is wrong/sinful. "To him who knows to do right and does not do it, to him it is a sin" - sorry I don't know chapter and verse.
If a person has not been convicted and does not feel that masturbation is wrong, then so be it.
We all have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling and we all have to pray and lift one another up in prayer. Let's stop all the fighting and dissention and such and work on uplifting one another and caring one for another as Christians should.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2007 12:08:59 PM
|
|
|
John_O
Posts: 8053
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Spacecat
Okay, I surrender, Masturbation is a sin.....Are you happy now?
I was happy before. But I'm glad you recognize the biblical truth of it. (Again note that the act itself is not sinful but the usual accompanying thoughts are)
quote:
but do I deserve all these personal attacks on my relationship between myself, Jesus & my so-called future wife?
I checked all my responses back to post 712, my first post on this thread in the last week or so. I found two statements that may be stretched to be called attacks. The first is at post 718. Here I was responding to your "tongue of an asp" remark and asked why you resorted to personal attack. The second is at post 728 where I was responding to a comment that MowTin made about your sanity. I saw neither of those statements as an attack on your person. If you see them that way I apologize. I will try to phrase my questions more carefully in the future.
quote:
And that is depending on whether God has a wife in store for me...
How do you know that I'm not called to be celibate, or called not to marry, John_O?
Does it matter to the topic if you are or are not? Lustful thoughts are sinful thoughts whether the thinker is married or celibate.
quote:
You can't judge me or my calling & I don't like being CURSED behind my back & I am praying that all these personal attacks on me, don't infiltrate my armour & don't affect me spiritually or my Walk with Christ....
1. How did I supposedly curse you? This one has me confused
2. No word anyone speaks against you can stop the plan God has for your life. I'm good but I'm not good enough to be able to affect your life. Only God is God. The only thing that can affect your walk with Christ is you.
quote:
Where's your compassion?
Is it more compassionate to correct someone in sin or to encourage them to remain in sin and pay the price for it? I believe it is better to correct them, at least that's what Jesus always did.
quote:
This was supposed to be about poor Daniel, the 17 yr old kid, who was too scared to tell his parents he was having Wet Dreams & explain his Cardboard Underwear to them.....
The poor kid, suffering from an over-dose of teenage hormones, was asking our opinion if it was okay for him to Masturbate, so he wouldn't have Wet Dreams,
Wet dreams are the way God designed to relieve sexual pressure without sinning. They are perfectly natural.
quote:
what I was trying to get across, was, that we WILL SIN, & ALL SINS are equal in the sight of God & may the first person without sin, cast the first stone at him!!!
No one said they were without sin. I am a sinner saved by grace. Nothing more.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2007 12:14:09 PM
|
|
|
John_O
Posts: 8053
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MowTin
I think only another 39-year-old virgin has the right to lecutre SpaceCat about the evils of masturbation.
I don't see where anyone was lecturing SC about anything. We were discussing whether m is a sin or not. Turns out that it is not but the usual accompanying thoughts are.
How is it a lecture to state truth and why does it matter if someone is a virgin or not. Does ones state of virginity determine what is sinful or not? I don't think so.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2007 7:07:56 PM
|
|
|
jawsmetroid
Posts: 215
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Shorts all year, MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
Looks like "Intense or unrestrained desire" to me.
So I can have an intense but restrained desire and be okay? Your definition allows for plenty that is sinful. There's a huge need for clarity in your definition.
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/4/2007 10:58:08 PM
|
|
|
Spacecat
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Yahoo
Status: offline
|
Dearest John_O,
Please, forgive me, my dear Brother in Christ for being defensive....
I have recently ceased taking Anti-Depressants & I might add, The Lord gave me Peace & Joy while I was making this decision.....I have only been off these drugs or meds now, for little over a month, so please forgive me for being overly-defensive, as I have been easily aggravated lately, due to the withdrawal symptoms of this medicine....
Now I must advise anyone who has been prescribed Anti-Depressants, by a
Health Care Professional, do not, under any circumstances, stop taking your
Anti-Depressant medication, unless a Doctor or God clearly tells you to......
 God Bless you, Brother John & forgive me for misreading, what you & others have said in this thread....May God's Grace abound to us all, here on www.christianity.com...
I totally agree with everything you said in your post, John_O, & I've quoted the one I am referring to below......
Peace be with each & everyone of you.....
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: Spacecat
Okay, I surrender, Masturbation is a sin.....Are you happy now?
I was happy before. But I'm glad you recognize the biblical truth of it. (Again note that the act itself is not sinful but the usual accompanying thoughts are)
quote:
but do I deserve all these personal attacks on my relationship between myself, Jesus & my so-called future wife?
I checked all my responses back to post 712, my first post on this thread in the last week or so. I found two statements that may be stretched to be called attacks. The first is at post 718. Here I was responding to your "tongue of an asp" remark and asked why you resorted to personal attack. The second is at post 728 where I was responding to a comment that MowTin made about your sanity. I saw neither of those statements as an attack on your person. If you see them that way I apologize. I will try to phrase my questions more carefully in the future.
quote:
And that is depending on whether God has a wife in store for me...
How do you know that I'm not called to be celibate, or called not to marry, John_O?
Does it matter to the topic if you are or are not? Lustful thoughts are sinful thoughts whether the thinker is married or celibate.
quote:
You can't judge me or my calling & I don't like being CURSED behind my back & I am praying that all these personal attacks on me, don't infiltrate my armour & don't affect me spiritually or my Walk with Christ....
1. How did I supposedly curse you? This one has me confused
2. No word anyone speaks against you can stop the plan God has for your life. I'm good but I'm not good enough to be able to affect your life. Only God is God. The only thing that can affect your walk with Christ is you.
quote:
Where's your compassion?
Is it more compassionate to correct someone in sin or to encourage them to remain in sin and pay the price for it? I believe it is better to correct them, at least that's what Jesus always did.
quote:
This was supposed to be about poor Daniel, the 17 yr old kid, who was too scared to tell his parents he was having Wet Dreams & explain his Cardboard Underwear to them.....
The poor kid, suffering from an over-dose of teenage hormones, was asking our opinion if it was okay for him to Masturbate, so he wouldn't have Wet Dreams,
Wet dreams are the way God designed to relieve sexual pressure without sinning. They are perfectly natural.
quote:
what I was trying to get across, was, that we WILL SIN, & ALL SINS are equal in the sight of God & may the first person without sin, cast the first stone at him!!!
No one said they were without sin. I am a sinner saved by grace. Nothing more.
< Message edited by Spacecat -- 5/4/2007 11:01:22 PM >
_____________________________
Yours Sincerely,
Simon
The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want,
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures,
He leadeth me beside the still waters,
He restoreth my soul...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/6/2007 10:30:32 PM
|
|
|
John_O
Posts: 8053
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Spacecat
Dearest John_O,
Please, forgive me, my dear Brother in Christ for being defensive....
I have recently ceased taking Anti-Depressants & I might add, The Lord gave me Peace & Joy while I was making this decision.....I have only been off these drugs or meds now, for little over a month, so please forgive me for being overly-defensive, as I have been easily aggravated lately, due to the withdrawal symptoms of this medicine....
Now I must advise anyone who has been prescribed Anti-Depressants, by a
Health Care Professional, do not, under any circumstances, stop taking your
Anti-Depressant medication, unless a Doctor or God clearly tells you to......
God Bless you, Brother John & forgive me for misreading, what you & others have said in this thread....May God's Grace abound to us all, here on www.christianity.com...
I totally agree with everything you said in your post, John_O, & I've quoted the one I am referring to below......
Peace be with each & everyone of you.....
Forgiven of course. Do be careful with the anti-depressants. When M came off hers we had a world of trouble. She came off too fast and had a second drug that she was coming off at the same time (under Dr.'s supervision) and the drawdown wasn't properly balanced.
God bless and keep you
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/6/2007 10:51:16 PM
|
|
|
Spacecat
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Yahoo
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
Dearest John_O,
Please, forgive me, my dear Brother in Christ for being defensive....
I have recently ceased taking Anti-Depressants & I might add, The Lord gave me Peace & Joy while I was making this decision.....I have only been off these drugs or meds now, for little over a month, so please forgive me for being overly-defensive, as I have been easily aggravated lately, due to the withdrawal symptoms of this medicine....
Now I must advise anyone who has been prescribed Anti-Depressants, by a
Health Care Professional, do not, under any circumstances, stop taking your
Anti-Depressant medication, unless a Doctor or God clearly tells you to......
God Bless you, Brother John & forgive me for misreading, what you & others have said in this thread....May God's Grace abound to us all, here on www.christianity.com...
I totally agree with everything you said in your post, John_O, & I've quoted the one I am referring to below......
Peace be with each & everyone of you.....
Forgiven of course. Do be careful with the anti-depressants. When M came off hers we had a world of trouble. She came off too fast and had a second drug that she was coming off at the same time (under Dr.'s supervision) and the drawdown wasn't properly balanced.
God bless and keep you
Dear John_O,
Thanks for the advice, John....
God Bless...
< Message edited by Spacecat -- 5/7/2007 3:27:01 AM >
_____________________________
Yours Sincerely,
Simon
The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want,
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures,
He leadeth me beside the still waters,
He restoreth my soul...
|
|
|
|
|
Masturbation... Act born out of God or the Flesh...? Yo... - 5/16/2007 9:23:32 PM
|
|
|
Tomes
Posts: 2
Status: offline
|
Hello to all my fellow Brothers in Christ Jesus.
This issue has really been with me for as long as I can remember. I'm not going to go into all the detail. But just to let you know, that I've always felt so guilty and "empty" from inside after the deed.
This feeling of guilt, I personally feel will not be there if God our Father hasn't placed it there in the first place for a good reason. To let us know that we are walking now in the flesh, and outside of His will.
Most of my friends who I have discussed this about, almost always mentioned something about feeling ashamed about "it" and that they never really felt comfortable - Spiritually wise, doing it. The closer I'm drawing to God, the more I feel uncomfortable doing it. It's like God excused me - going through puberty and that. But now at 24, I can honestly say that the Holy Spirit is convicting me more-and-more.
At this stage, I am confessing it before Father God as sin and as a great wrong doing in His eyes. I know that God wants me to go to the next step in my "Faith-walk" with Him. Father God, is busy shifting me deeper into Himself through His Spirit. But this act will definitely stand between God and me, if I continue.
I hope that I'm not the only Male Christian out there, feeling this way about the big "M"...
2Cor. 4:2
"We have renounced disgraceful ways (secret thoughts, feelings, desires and underhandedness, the methods and arts that men hide through shame); we refuse to deal craftily (to practice trickery and cunning) or to adulterate or handle dishonestly the Word of God, but we state the truth openly (clearly and candidly). And so we commend ourselves in the sight and presence of God to every man's conscience."
1Cor 6:17-20
"But the person who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him.
Shun immorality and all sexual looseness [flee from impurity in thought, word, or deed]. Any other sin which a man commits is one outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,
You were bought with a price [purchased with a preciousness and paid for, made His own]. So then, honor God and bring glory to Him in your body."
Acts. 24:16
"Therefore I always exercise and discipline myself [mortifying my body, deadening my carnal affections, bodily appetites, and worldly desires, endeavoring in all respects] to have a clear (unshaken, blameless) conscience, void of offense toward God and toward men."
1John. 2:28
" And now, little children, abide (live, remain permanently) in Him, so that when He is made visible, we may have and enjoy perfect confidence (boldness, assurance) and not be ashamed and shrink from Him at His coming."
2Tim. 2:15
"Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation... Act born out of God or the Flesh...... - 5/16/2007 9:50:00 PM
|
|
|
John_O
Posts: 8053
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
|
Good post Tomes. Welcome to the forums
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation... Act born out of God or the Flesh...... - 5/17/2007 8:14:32 AM
|
|
|
Spacecat
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/14/2006
From: Yahoo
Status: offline
|
Dear Tomes.....
All I can say in reply to your post is BRILLIANT!!
The Word of God speaks for itself & so does your testimony....
God Bless....
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tomes
Hello to all my fellow Brothers in Christ Jesus.
This issue has really been with me for as long as I can remember. I'm not going to go into all the detail. But just to let you know, that I've always felt so guilty and "empty" from inside after the deed.
This feeling of guilt, I personally feel will not be there if God our Father hasn't placed it there in the first place for a good reason. To let us know that we are walking now in the flesh, and outside of His will.
Most of my friends who I have discussed this about, almost always mentioned something about feeling ashamed about "it" and that they never really felt comfortable - Spiritually wise, doing it. The closer I'm drawing to God, the more I feel uncomfortable doing it. It's like God excused me - going through puberty and that. But now at 24, I can honestly say that the Holy Spirit is convicting me more-and-more.
At this stage, I am confessing it before Father God as sin and as a great wrong doing in His eyes. I know that God wants me to go to the next step in my "Faith-walk" with Him. Father God, is busy shifting me deeper into Himself through His Spirit. But this act will definitely stand between God and me, if I continue.
I hope that I'm not the only Male Christian out there, feeling this way about the big "M"...
2Cor. 4:2
"We have renounced disgraceful ways (secret thoughts, feelings, desires and underhandedness, the methods and arts that men hide through shame); we refuse to deal craftily (to practice trickery and cunning) or to adulterate or handle dishonestly the Word of God, but we state the truth openly (clearly and candidly). And so we commend ourselves in the sight and presence of God to every man's conscience."
1Cor 6:17-20
"But the person who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with Him.
Shun immorality and all sexual looseness [flee from impurity in thought, word, or deed]. Any other sin which a man commits is one outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.
Do you not know that your body is the temple (the very sanctuary) of the Holy Spirit Who lives within you, Whom you have received [as a Gift] from God? You are not your own,
You were bought with a price [purchased with a preciousness and paid for, made His own]. So then, honor God and bring glory to Him in your body."
Acts. 24:16
"Therefore I always exercise and discipline myself [mortifying my body, deadening my carnal affections, bodily appetites, and worldly desires, endeavoring in all respects] to have a clear (unshaken, blameless) conscience, void of offense toward God and toward men."
1John. 2:28
" And now, little children, abide (live, remain permanently) in Him, so that when He is made visible, we may have and enjoy perfect confidence (boldness, assurance) and not be ashamed and shrink from Him at His coming."
2Tim. 2:15
"Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth."
_____________________________
Yours Sincerely,
Simon
The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not want,
He maketh me to lie down in green pastures,
He leadeth me beside the still waters,
He restoreth my soul...
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/19/2007 11:23:57 AM
|
|
|
islandkid
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: "isle of wight" uk
Status: offline
|
LOL wolfvan - quote:
"It's a pretty far stretch to call masturbation an addiction when it's required at a frequency around 25 times a month to prevent prostate cancer. It's simply a health maintenance procedure."
----------------
i had better not add my comments since most of you are my elders (and betters?) but i'll deploy wolf's argument when my dad next gives his view that it's wrong :
"old man", i'll say, "i have it on the very highest authority that it's perfectly ok - so go away and don't dare bother me again!!"
----------
p.s. for those who say it's ok - there's an opposing view which my dad says is correct
http://www.afa.net/pornography/GetArticle.asp?id=51
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/20/2007 3:22:34 AM
|
|
|
AaronsRod
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/3/2007
From: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Status: offline
|
I'll be honest,I'm torn on this issue...
From the spiritual and moral standing,I think its a sin..flat out..no questions....
But...
From the point of physical health,I have read many articles in the past where is its is strongly recommended to keep the prostate functioning and the passages cleared.Its been mentioned in other articles,the male masturbation in non-sexually active males has been proven to lower the chances of prostate cancer and other male reproductive problems.
I come from a family with a long line of cancers(my grandmother alone went thru 8 cancer proceedures(who now sits at the right hand of my Lord and Saviour,Amen)....
I will say this,and take it for what its worth...before my rebirth and acceptence of my Lord and Savior into my life,amen, it was a chronice problem for me,But right from the day that God took over my heart,I have no desire to do it.I have once in the month since my salvation...adn I had to force myself to do it because I felt it was the right thing to do for my health.I felt bad about it after,I asked for forgiveness,and somehow God told me it was all ok.
I didnt do it to "releive sexual tension" or self-pleasure of any sort...I did it to keep myself as healthy as I can.....
Is it a sin to want to keep the body,which our creator has given us,healthy?
I'm on the fence line about it.....
_____________________________
AaronsRod
What are you searching for
I know you can find my door
I know you've sinned every sin
But I'll still take you in
It's me"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/20/2007 4:22:54 AM
|
|
|
islandkid
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: "isle of wight" uk
Status: offline
|
quote:
Is it a sin to want to keep the body,which our creator has given us,healthy?
definitely not.
but is the medical evidence about prostrate cancer compelling?
i'd never heard about it before.
it seems a rather unusual claim.
it's difficult to imagine the Pope doing it and he's elderly and alive.
medical theories can be and often are proven misguided after a time.
if it's convincingly true, pastors and others who advise against self-abuse will have to do some theological rethinking.
not to mention it would become almost compulsary for young men to do it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/20/2007 12:02:38 PM
|
|
|
AaronsRod
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/3/2007
From: Calgary,Alberta,Canada
Status: offline
|
You make some vaild points...
_____________________________
AaronsRod
What are you searching for
I know you can find my door
I know you've sinned every sin
But I'll still take you in
It's me"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/22/2007 5:25:04 AM
|
|
|
islandkid
Posts: 3
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: "isle of wight" uk
Status: offline
|
further - what about girls who struggle with this issue too.
AFAIK they don't have a prostrate so the only reason for them to do it would be lust.
that doesn't seem very fair - if we accept the wolf theory, males can do it any time they want (for health reasons) while girls have to remain abstinent.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/23/2007 3:21:13 PM
|
|
|
MowTin
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/20/2007
Status: offline
|
If masturbation prevented prostate cancer then there would be no such thing as prostate cancer 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/24/2007 9:21:16 AM
|
|
|
John_O
Posts: 8053
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: MowTin
If masturbation prevented prostate cancer then there would be no such thing as prostate cancer
God gave us a sin free way to relieve sexual stress, it's called a wet dream. Natural processes flush the system and would provide any protection required (If it really is required that is).
Any talk about having to M for health benefits is just a rationalization for a chosen behavior
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 5/27/2007 12:38:21 AM
|
|
|
jawsmetroid
Posts: 215
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Shorts all year, MN
Status: offline
|
About the lust thing... a quote of me from another site. Yes, I recant my previous position.
quote:
Quote:
everyone keeps saying they arent lusting when he/she masturbates..but no one is comming forth to say what is currently on their mind during the moment when they are masturbating...so what do you think about when you are masturbating, if its not about sex, naked men and women?
End quote.
You really want a peek inside my brain? You want to know? Okay. I think about how I'm not going to be lusting the next day. I think about how it helps me to not lust. Lust is an unhealthy desire, and a desire for what is forbidden. Do you know what that means? It means I'm not thinking about having sex with people. It means I'm thinking about how much masturbating is reducing the amount of time (in fact, mostly eliminating the time) I spend lusting. I don't feel the desperate need to masturbate because I do it regularly. Therefore, I don't think as much about sex. Hardly ever.
And believe me, that is not a conviction I have always held. I recently (within the last month) discovered that regular (once every 2-3 days) masturbation leads to less preoccupation with sex, and less time spent trying to resist such preoccupation.
You know what else I've found? I've found that I'm not as afraid to try to resist any lust because I know I can do it. I'm more confident in my ability to resist the temptation. You'll probably go 'ohmigosh, he's not relying on God'. Well, I still pray. I still rely on God just as much, only now I am more capable of aiding Him. Oh, but God doesn't need my help! No, but He wants it.
Let me summarize:
1. I think about how much it helps me resist lust.
2. I am more confident in resisting lust.
3. I think less about sex.
That do you?
The person I was addressing tried to assume that the only way you can masturbate was to lust. Now, would anyone on here like to make that assumption as well? The person on the other site got totally shot down by other users for engaging in logical fallacy. Nevermind being rude.
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/3/2007 1:46:33 PM
|
|
|
rebelman
Posts: 107
Joined: 1/11/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline
|
I see a big of a falace on these threads like these. The God I serve is not changing and never somehow gives permission for one person to do one thing and another permission to do the same thing. That would mean God changes now doesn't it? I know some of yall aren't directly saying that but that is what it is putting off.
For God to say M is fine for one and M is not fine to one means God changes his position on a stance and has personal preferences toward certain people. That just does not fly, Period with me.
How anyone sit there and say God can somehow give this "personal waver" to do one thing and give that same waver to not do this for another? That means God changes. That is unbiblical all together.
What are the evils? We got the World, Flesh, and the Devil. Never in any circumstance does the Bible say please turn to one of these when you got a problem. And many I have seen abdicate turning to the flesh with one of these "well its just for me and not for you" arguments that I literally hate. I know when I get one of those I'm already fixing to get one of these "God gives me individual liberty" posts. When that liberty is to set you free from the bondage of sin and not the permission to do whatever you want "as long as it helps my body".
Why do we forsake the Spirit by not letting God show Us directly how to help us with this problem? Are we afraid He won't help? He will help and will even move Heaven and Earth to help us with a struggle. I stand firm this action is a sin. Then I get argued the following.
1. Well my health requires it. Well first of all who is telling you about your health? Is this supposed health professional a Christian? I'm telling you there are plenty of Doctors around telling you some wrong information. Why don't you turn to the Bible and see how you can handle your struggle. Why don't you turn to the Spirit to guide you into all understanding. What is more important? You're health knowledge or your God's knowledge? I don't know about you but I turn to God before I do some flesh fun for anything.
2. Excuse number 2 "Well I'm not directly having sex". You are basically having sex the only thing is lacking is the other person. Your body puts off the same chemicals, your body has the same stimulation. How can you sit there and say God gives permission to this one sexual act. God makes it clear to not go around kissing on someone who is not your spouce and that is considered a less sexual act but yet this one is "condoned by some because God gives me freedom" Please.
3. Excuse number 3. "Well its a sin for some and since I say its not a sin for me, its not". Well geez. If I saw life was that easy that I can put a sin label just because I had an issue and put the "I condone" label on it now, life would be so much easy. Then you say "Well God hasn't done nothing to me". When God doenst do something directly do you when a sin occurs, He is waiting for you to repent and turn back. And if you don't a storm is a bruing.
_____________________________
"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness"-----2 Corinthians 12:9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/4/2007 12:36:51 AM
|
|
|
jawsmetroid
Posts: 215
Joined: 4/18/2005
From: Shorts all year, MN
Status: offline
|
quote:
I see a big of a falace on these threads like these. The God I serve is not changing and never somehow gives permission for one person to do one thing and another permission to do the same thing. That would mean God changes now doesn't it? I know some of yall aren't directly saying that but that is what it is putting off.
No, sorry. It's not that God's saying masturbation itself is wrong for some and right for others. It's saying the things that accompany it may be right or wrong. For example, one can masturbate without lust, and another cannot. For the person who cannot it is wrong because they are lusting. It isn't the masturbation itself, but something accompanying it. And for those who would mention the conscience, I would say it's not about the conscience at all, but whether or not God wants you to- and expressing that through the conscience.
quote:
I stand firm this action is a sin. Then I get argued the following.
You forgot argument # 4:
The activity of masturbation is never condemned in the Bible. In fact, the closest we see coming to it is that masturbation is unclean (ejection of semen in Leviticus). But we know that things that are unclean are not sinful. Quite different concepts.
The activity of masturbation is never described as a fleshy desire. It is never hinting as a fleshy (sinful) desire.
Lust, or the desire for something forbidden (or a strong desire in general, depending on the activity being desired (for example, Jesus lusted to eat the Last Supper with the disciples- yeah, same word- lust), can be sin. That is, a strong desire in general usually entails an obsession, or trying to take control of a situation, person, or thing outside their control. Doing something forbidden, basically. The Greek for lust:
epithumeō
Thayer Definition:
1) to turn upon a thing
2) to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3) to lust after, covet
3a) of those who seek things forbidden
Part of Speech: verb
Number 3 is the proper meaning. Why? Because a simple desire for something is not sinful, unless you want to make the argument that Jesus was sinning.
Similarly, adultery (see below) is condemned.
moicheuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to commit adultery
1a) to be an adulterer
1b) to commit adultery with, have unlawful intercourse with another’s wife
1c) of the wife: to suffer adultery, be debauched
1d) A Hebrew idiom, the word is used of those who at a woman’s solicitation are drawn away to idolatry, i.e. to the eating of things sacrificed to idols
Part of Speech: verb
How is masturbation itself sinful? Lust is. Adultery is. And in case you missed my last post, I'm not engaging in either when I masturbate. So, please show us biblical proof that it's wrong. And show me the difference between masturbation and a wet dream. And, while you're at it, disprove the medical studies done about regular masturbation reducing the risk of prostate cancer (done by Mayo Clinic, among other major names in the medical field). And show me how masturbation is the same as sex with another person. Sex, by definition, is between two people. So how can you equate masturbation with sex? And what would be the difference between sex and a wet dream if you can equate the two?
_____________________________
I say what I mean and mean what I say. I'm not implying something unless it's obvious. When in doubt, ask, don't assume.
Somebody shut me up so I can live out loud!- Toby Mac
Chat about the deep things in life...
www.jawsmetroid.blogspot.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 6/5/2007 1:09:17 PM
|
|
|
MowTin
Posts: 31
Joined: 4/20/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rebelman
You are basically having sex the only thing is lacking is the other person.
I'm sorry, but that quote is just soooo funny! Really made me laugh.
I think God would be really happy if we cared for widows, orphans and the poor. There are millions of people who are literally starving to death while we get so fat we can barely walk. Millions more are dying of diseases that have been cured for decades. I think God would be happy if we stopped supporting wars that kill thousands of innocent non-combatants. He would be thrilled if we went out and preached the Gospel.
I appreciate what you're saying. Through the Spirit we can overcome SIN. But I don't think God cares at all about masturbation. That's why it's not mentioned in the Bible. Let's deal with our real sins instead of trying to invent new sins.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 7/10/2007 6:51:35 AM
|
|
|
Anst
Posts: 11
Joined: 7/23/2006
Status: offline
|
I’ve been struggling for sometime now with this dreaded addiction. The main reason for this was I believe my attitude or reasoning behind it. Because I chose to believe that God’s Word was silent on the matter it absolved me of any wrongdoing--that is I felt it to be a “grey” issue rather than a “black and white” issue. However, it still didn’t stop the guilt and hurt on my relationship with Him. When I should have been spending time praying, meditating and studying the Bible I misspent my time indulging in the misuse--and abuse--of myself. Now by the grace of God I am determined to clean myself up of this dirty habit as I have come to the conclusion that God’s Word is far from silent on the matter and in various passages, when looked at together, clearly presents it as wrong. If we look at history it is widely known that in pagan cultures sex was believed to act as a channel for communication with the gods and thus drawing closer to Him--hence the ancient relics that remain with us today that bear testimony to this pervasive creed with pornographic mosaics in Pompeii, heathen temples dedicated for sexual services in Egypt and Rome, jars containing the skeletal remains of babes sacrificed to Baal, etc. It was not to be so for the people of Israel however. Is this why God condemned all the perverse sexual acts in Leviticus 18, which the Canaanites were renowned for and for which reason God demanded their extermination? Notice that throughout the scriptures the sexual act itself is deemed as something that separates us from God--as a source of contamination or uncleanness, unlike the pagan view. For instance the primary source for this is Leviticus 15:16-18, which concerns men and women made unclean in His sight from sexual relations:
“And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even.”
Another related scripture is Exodus 19:10-15, wherein the Israelite men and women were commanded not to have sexual relations in order to be “sanctified”, that is separated for a holy purpose, for the advent of God and receipt of His Ten Commandments:
“And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow, and let them wash their clothes, And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai. And Moses went down from the mount unto the people, and sanctified the people; and they washed their clothes. And he said unto the people, Be ready against the third day: come not at your wives.”
In these cases, it is my belief, therefore, that if sexual intercourse itself separates one from God making both the man and woman “unclean” then surely masturbation does the same--as it is the wilful act of causing a “man’s seed of copulation [to] go out from him”. And worse it perverts the sexual act itself, as it is committed alone, selfishly not selflessly, with the intention of getting pleasure not giving pleasure.
Following from this one may ask what about “wet dreams” or nocturnal emissions? Again the Bible is far from silent in the matter. In Deuteronomy 23:10-11 we note that any man who experienced such were deemed “unclean” and had to reside outside of the camp:
“If there be among you any man, that is not clean by reason of uncleanness that chanceth him by night, then shall he go abroad out of the camp, he shall not come within the camp: But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again.”
The whole reason for this is given in verse 14:
“For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing [margin: nakedness of anything] in thee, and turn away from thee.”
Is this one reason why we see increasing military defeats rather than victories--demonstrating that God is withdrawing Himself and His protection from us-- because of our lewd and lawless conduct (eg Abu Ghraib)?
It is my belief, therefore, that if God sanctioned masturbation he would have made clear reference to it when he gave Moses and the Israelites His Law--and he would have given a clear example to illustrate what he meant as he did with a range of issues like sex, menstruation, nocturnal emissions, human excrement, etc. In the instance of sex and nocturnal emissions both were sources of uncleanness. Imagine then if one indulged in masturbation or experienced “wet dreams” night after night after night--he or she would have to permanently reside outside of the camp until they learn to control themselves!
Finally, there is another passage, which has converted me to this conclusion. And that is Ezekiel 16:17, which is the only passage I have so far come across that clearly condemns an act, referred to as “whoredom”, that can only be equated to masturbation for Jerusalem (representing the Kingdom of Judah | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
