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Anst -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (3/28/2008 1:08:10 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elad02
To me this is like saying God didn't do a good enough job in saying what is sin. Although He didn't come right out and say it, surely He meant to. Isn't that putting words in God's mouth? If God didn't say it is a sin, then to say otherwise is reading your own beliefs into it.
I am definitely not implying that God's Word is vague or misleading on the issue. What I am saying is that on principle (e.g. Isaiah 28:10) it is my understanding that masturbation or autosexuality is wrongful behaviour and equated with prostitution and/or uncleanness. My reasons for this have been outlined previously, primarily that you are misusing God’s gift of sexuality in a selfish and inappropriate way that I don’t believe God ever intended for it; and the only legitimate way is between husband and wife.
I've also recently come across another passage to support my belief that masturbation is akin to uncleanness and therefore wrongful behaviour or sin. Ezekiel 36:17-18 states:
"Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman. Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it".
Thus, it is my understanding that in this passage, like others (e.g. Isaiah 64:6; Lamentations 1:17), God is equating the "uncleanness" of menstruation with capital offences like murder and idolatry. So, by extension if the "uncleanness" of menstruation as outlined in Leviticus 15:19-30 is tantamount to the "uncleanness" of an "emission of semen" via sex, masturbation or a nocturnal emission (Leviticus 15:16-18; cf. Deuteronomy 23:10-11), then surely the latter would be from God’s perspective not unlike the former? Note the word translated "uncleanness" in Ezekiel 36 (Hebrew "tumah" Strong's #2932) means "uncleanness" or "pollution" and is derived from the Hebrew word "tame" Strong's #2930 used in Leviticus 15. Also, the word translated "removed woman" in Ezekiel 36 (Hebrew "niddah" Strong's #5079) means "menstrual uncleanness" and "something unclean, or filthy". Some even propose an "either/or" situation to demonstrate that masturbation is less "evil" than having sex with a prostitute (i.e. either visit a prostitute or masturbate), in my opinion this is a fallacy and this passage negates such a twisted scenario that gives no real choice at all since the passage implies that God equates all sins alike. And so "the lesser of two evils" is still evil! The answer then is to not fornicate at all, through prostitution, masturbation, pornography, etc. and to remain chaste. Further, God in the same chapter (vv. 25, 29) exclaims: "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you ...I will also save you from all your uncleannesses" (cf. Zechariah 13:1).
quote:
ORIGINAL: Elad02
How do you get masturbation out of the Ezekiel and Jeremiah passages? Harlotry and whoredom are commonly used as allegories for an unfaithful nation.
As I explained previously it is my belief that Ezekiel 16:17 is a fitting description of masturbation; and to a lesser extent Jeremiah 3:9 could imply it as well. As such it is immoral and equated with prostitution, harlotry or whoredom, which is forbidden in Bible Law (Leviticus 19:29; Deuteronomy 23:17-18; cf. Genesis 38:24). Even nakedness is a type of sin, which is why God declares "For the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy: that he see no unclean thing [margin: "nakedness of anything" Hebrew ervah] in thee, and turn away from thee" (Deuteronomy 23:14; cf. Genesis 3:21; 9:22; Exodus 20:26; 28:42; 32:25; Isaiah 20:2-4; 47:3; Lamentations 1:8; Ezekiel 16:36-7; 23:18, 29; Hosea 2:3; Nahum 3:5; Habakkuk 2:15; 2 Corinthians 5:3; Revelation 3:18; 16:15; 17:16). In this context, I am inclined to believe that both Adam and Eve were possibly clothed in righteousness or light prior to their fall (e.g. Genesis 2:25; 3:7; cf. Revelation 19:14). Accordingly, the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia stated that "The Jews objected vigorously to exposure of the body (even athletes insisting on a loin-cloth (compare 2 Maccabees 4:12-13)), and compulsory nudity was the extreme of shame and humiliation..." (art. "Naked; Nakedness", 1915 edition). This brings to mind the historical relation to the Nazis treatment of the Jews and other captives who were shaved of their body hair; or humiliatingly stripped naked prior to being lined up and shot.
In addition, there is plenty of historical and archaeological evidence of this widespread practice from earliest times. According to Man, Myth and Magic: The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Mythology, Religion and the Unknown ancient societies "made images of the sexual organs in realistic or symbolic forms, and treated them both as objects of reverence and the source of fecundity and increase, and as the power behind paternity, motherhood, fertility, food and seasonal cycles. Some authorities believe that these images may have been worshipped even before homage was paid to the gods themselves...From prehistoric times men have made clay idols, wooden figures and metal sculptures, depicting the primary sexual attributes of their chief deities. The walls of many old Egyptian temples have phallic carvings, and the Greek historian and traveller Herodotus described phallic statues of Osiris in Egyptian villages in his day, in the fifth century BC. In certain ancient Egyptian ceremonies the figure of the male deity was carried in procession with organ erect. Such ithyphallic statuettes were modelled on a smaller scale and popularly used in various rites as talismanic figurines to cure disease, obtain children, cure impotence or bring good luck" (art. "Phallic symbolism"). Along with the article are a few photos of ancient figurines and wall paintings with the sexual organs in disproportionate size; and clay models of the male sexual organs (dildoes). From Hemenway's What's Wrong With Sex?: "The earliest known dildoes have been found in ancient Egyptian tombs; they were made of clay. Since the Egyptian nobility only had buried with them things of great value that they planned to use in the next world, the dildoe must have been very important to Egyptian ladies...Baal Peor means 'My Lord the Opener', and Peor signifies 'the opening of the maiden’s hymen'. In Syria, says St Jerome the image of Baal Peor had a phallus protruding from its mouth. 'They went to Baal Peor and separated (straddled) themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved' (Hosea 2:16). At Roman weddings the brides deflowered themselves on the erect, stone penis of the god Priapus or Tutunus or Hermes so that the first-born would be considered God-begotten. The virgin also placed a wreath of flowers on the head of the image to symbolize the female genital organ--a symbolic act reminiscent of the ancient Indian svayamara ceremony. Any woman thus deflowered was described as a Virgin Bride of God. In fact, 'Holy Virgin' was the title of harlot-priestesses of Ishtar and Aphrodite. The title just meant 'unmarried'. Children born to such temple women from sex worship were called by the Greeks 'parthenioi' (virgin born). Zoroaster, Sargon, Perseus, Jason, Asclepus, Zeus, Krishna, Quetzalcoatl, Horus, Buddha, Mithra, Osiris and many other god-heroes were supposedly virgin born. The god himself was a christos, 'anointed', because the stone phallus was anointed with chrism or holy oil. The custom was still common in the fourth century AD. Some of Priapus's images lasted through the Middle Ages, and giant phalli were adored up to the seventeenth century as saints" (pages 87-89).
Incidentally the Third Commandment prohibiting idolatry (Exodus 20:4-5) has according to various commentators been applied against fornication and adultery as well. And Hemenway gives an alternative interpretation thus: "Thou shalt not make unto thee any carved image, or any likeness of anything (such as the penis) that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is the water under the earth; Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them ("bow down" is defined as sex in Job 31:10), nor serve them, for I the Lord they God am a jealous God (Why jealous unless sex is involved?). And God is the only upright rock that begot us (Psalms 92:15; Deuteronomy 32:18), just as the penis is upright and begets children. Both a rock and a penis are hard also." Indeed, we see relics of ancient phallic symbolism even today, such as the famous obelisks of London (i.e. Cleopatra's Needle), Washington (i.e. Washington Monument) and Vatican City (i.e. St Peter's Square) etc. In relation to this, from my previous discoveries concerning Biblical euphemisms, I have come across the fact that the Biblical concept of water baptism has allusions to human sexuality, and therefore, sex and the sexual organs, rather than being viewed as "dirty" or "disgusting" as some were led to believe in the past, is significant to the Christian process of salvation and should be held with deeper respect. For instance, according to the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (art. "sex"):
1. Males are referred to as "any that ****eth against the wall" (1 Samuel 25:22, 34; 1 Kings 14:10; 16:11; 21:21: 2 Kings 9:8).
2. Foot or Feet (Hebrew "regel") is a common euphemism for genitalia. For instance, urine is called "foot water" (2 Kings 18:27; Isaiah 36:12). Public hair is called "hair of the feet" (Isaiah 7:20; cf. Ezekiel 16:7). Zipporah, after circumcising her son, holds his severed foreskin to Moses' "feet" or genitals (Exodus 4:25-26). Ruth's action of "uncovering [Boaz's] feet" (Ruth 3:7) was a marriage proposal. In Isaiah's temple vision the seraphim had six wings: two to cover the face, two to fly, and two to cover the feet (Isaiah 6:2)—in this latter case, however, it is debatable whether "feet" is literal or euphemistic (cf. Matthew 22:30; Luke 20:34-6). In Deuteronomy 28:57 a woman's children are described as "her afterbirth that comes out from between her feet" while Ezekiel 16:25 vividly depicts Israel's wantonness by the phrase "you opened wide your feet".
3. Hand (Hebrew "yad") can be a euphemism for "penis". For instance, Song of Solomon 5:4 states: "My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him". This has been interpreted to be "suggestive of intercourse". Even the "Dead Sea scrolls refer to a member of the Hebrew religious community at Qumran being fined for exposing his 'hand'" (see http://www.bigbible.org/blog/2007/04/el-shaddai-as-breasted-god_12.htm). In Isaiah 57:8 it is translated as "manhood" (New American Standard); "nudity" (NKJ); "genitals" (Holman Christian Standard), but the literal Hebrew is "looked on their hand". In The Message the passage is translated thus: "Behind closed doors you assemble your precious gods and goddesses. Deserting me, you've gone all out, stripped down and made your bed your place of worship. You've climbed into bed with the 'sacred' whores and loved every minute of it, adoring every curve of their naked bodies."
In fact, as translated in The Message this chapter is a perfect description of the sex-and-death religion of ancient and modern times (e.g. Hollywood films that depict gratuitous sex and explicit violence). And it could be said that this passage could imply the stash of sexualised or pornographic images many paint their walls with behind the bedroom door, not unlike the ancient people of Pompeii who depicted lewd mosaics on their bedroom walls (cf. Ezekiel 8:10-12). Also, the ISBN provides an alternative meaning to 1 Corinthians 6:13 and Philippians 3:19. Paul alludes to those with an insatiable sexual appetite leading to immoral consequences. For instance, the word properly translated "stomach" (Greek "koilia") may connote the libido too since "the association with the sexual organs is just below the surface in Paul's rejection of the moral indifference of the Corinthian libertines" whose sexual licentiousness was renowned and this may explain his charge that some people "serve their bellies" and "glory in their shame", which may be a "thinly veiled reference to genitalia".
Back to the other discovery concerning the analogy of baptism with human reproduction I understand that "water" can symbolize sperm in the Bible (e.g. Isaiah 48:1 cf. Numbers 24:7; Psalms 68:26). And it is interesting that God demands water baptism by which we receive the gift of his Holy Spirit (John 3:5), which is akin to his "seed" (Greek "sperma") in 1 John 3:9. In this way, I don't believe that sex should be cheapened or futilely used as it is spiritually-speaking a beautiful picture of the Christian process of entering into God’s family.
Finally, I’ve discovered that masturbation, in fact all sin, seems to revolve around "fantasy" or "escapism"—i.e. a flight from reality--in other words a false reality! For instance, a person may "fantasize" stealing a car or killing an enemy or having sex with their friend's girlfriend etc. On most occasions, if one has that God-given capacity of a conscience they will, either during or soon after the error, regret their actions, and hopefully this will lead to repentance. So it seems that one avenue Satan uses to tempt or seduce us into sin is primarily through our human imagination by tricking us into a false reality! For instance, we think that if we do this or that we will get away with it or no one will get hurt etc. but the reality is usually the total opposite. Thus, we should not give in to these distractions, but ignore or resist them, replace them with more positive, fruitful pursuits (Philippians 4:8) and in the end overcome these "lying vanities" (Jonah 2:8) by the grace of the living God.
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