RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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nuclear_sidewalk -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/9/2008 1:16:50 AM)

I think a lot of the folks recommending 'prostate prevention' use are a bit of a joke. You're really thinking about that when you do it? Uh huh. Maybe if you're putting it into a cup for a test. Maybe.

The facts are that most of us men aren't machines, and tend to do this over lust. Because of the sexual & immoral nature of those thoughts, it's sinful. At best, even times when it seems purely about a release, there's at least a bit of lust involved. Even if it's not over a woman, it's the I MUST FEEL GOOD NOW kind of lust. Putting our desires before God's, I'd say. Some folks might want to chalk this up to one of those "meat offered to idols" kind of Christian Liberty items. They might say that "it's sin to him who thinks it's sin", etc. Well maybe that applies to things like drinking, dancing, types of music, etc, but I don't think it quite fits the bill here. It's mostly used for lustful self-gratification outside of marriage, and tends to be the easy way out of 'fighting' temptation. (i.e., giving up)

I think the game changes once you're married, assuming you're maybe away for a few days or something. (also assuming you're dwelling on thoughts of your wife, etc)

Either way, LOL at the Prostate Prevention agenda. Think I'll pass on 'servicing' myself... Heh.



ChoirDJ -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/9/2008 3:04:11 PM)

quote:

I think a lot of the folks recommending 'prostate prevention' use are a bit of a joke. You're really thinking about that when you do it? Uh huh. Maybe if you're putting it into a cup for a test. Maybe.


I think we could have our own convictions about the issue without putting others down for what they believe because that is between God and them. The fact is that you can only talk about what goes on in your mind when you masturbate but you can't speak for what is going on in someone else's mind.

As I said earlier, for me personally the issue is not whether I entertain lustful thoughts when I masturbate (at times I have and at times I haven't). The issue is whether or not my conscious is clear on the issue since the Bible doesn't address the issue of masturbation directly. As I'm gut level honest with myself, my conscience has not been clear so I made a decision by the grace of God to stop masturbating.



freakofnature -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/10/2008 4:07:19 PM)

Just doing some research around the different forum folders. Does anyone else find it particullarly odd that there is not one single folder that I could find in the "Women Only" forum that discusses sexual matters much less discussing the big "M"? I mean I didn't read them all, but just judging by the titles, mostly they are about lunch, dinner and babies?

Um, otherwise, just chimming in here in that I think as some other posters have stated that I am not sure as to how one would eleviate oneself of pent up agression, if you will (I am trying to avoid saying the word) without the thought of at least some sexual nature entering ones mind. Sex isn't supposed to be about gratification anyway. Am I wrong. I mean, even if we are "thinking about our wives" during that alone time, isn't that just objectifying the women in our lives? Purely thinking about them in a primevil sexual nature? I was always taught that God gave us Sex to create oneness in a relationship between a man and his wife. If we take to self gratification, we are eliminating that "one on one" time for some quick fixes. I don't agree that self love making is anyway a Godly thing, this is of course all just a matter of speaking and MHO.



ChoirDJ -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/10/2008 6:35:48 PM)

I don't necessary go to the Women's Only threads anymore out of respect for their privacy. I do remember coming across a thread were a female poster made reference to the lloooonnnngggg discussion on masturbation here. The poster questioned why this topic wasn't being openly discussed among the women and my guess would be the awareness level of how prevalent it is among women masturbation reached the same as it has for men. Thus, many women are still ashamed to openly admit they struggle with this issue also though perhaps not to the same degree that men do. A couple of decades ago, men weren't talking about the issue either because men assumed very few other men did it. Now that men are more aware, the inhibitions about discussing it are coming down and I imagine it will be the same for women over due time.

As far as sexual gratification within the confounds of marriage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. God created sex for pleasure as well as procreation. However, by abstaining from sex as singles, we learn develop a character of self-control that will benefit us when we are married. Any married person you that if you are out of control as a single person, you will be out of control when as a married person. We men struggle with porn so much because we are not willing to put in the effort it takes to learn self-control and we want quick and instant gratification. Yet, we become disillusioned when we wonder why we still struggle with impurity after we get married and it all goes back to never learning self-control. One of the the biggest lies is that marriage is the cure all for impurity.



freakofnature -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/11/2008 8:51:46 AM)

quote:

As far as sexual gratification within the confounds of marriage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


Gratification between a married couple, not self gratification, "Within the confounds of marriage" Yes. But I think when you start to delve into self gratification, you are leaving the wife out of the picture for a quick fix, and yes, then you are loosing control and character then in that case, who needs a wife?



ChoirDJ -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/11/2008 11:21:43 AM)

Yes...that's what I was referring to, sexual gratification between spouses, not self-gratification.

quote:

Sex isn't supposed to be about gratification anyway. Am I wrong. I mean, even if we are "thinking about our wives" during that alone time, isn't that just objectifying the women in our lives?


I was trying to address this issue in my previous post as you appear to be saying that having sex for pleasure is not appropriate even within marriage.



freakofnature -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/11/2008 11:58:49 AM)

quote:

I was trying to address this issue in my previous post as you appear to be saying that having sex for pleasure is not appropriate even within marriage.


Sorry DJ, I am not saying this at all... Sex was created by God for married couples to enjoy each other... The objective is each other and enjoy! Self gratifying sex seems to take out A) Enjoyment and B)Each other.



petrafan -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/25/2008 10:40:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Guy_On_Fire_For_God

I can't get over the fact that people think that masturbation is possible without lust period. I just don't believe it.

quote:

lust


I can frimly state (from first hand experiance) that masturbation without lust is definelt posible. Mearly thinking of the enjoyment and touching myself Is suficiant. Now I have never did anything inapropriate with a woman even though I wasn't saved untill I was 19.
I can also see how some men would find this ubelievable. Clearly I cor 8 and Romans 14 both apply here. If I am abNote that refering to a brother as "weaker" should be understood as meaning weaker in this area. We all have our areas in which we are weaker. For me, lust is not such an area for me. Contrairy to what books like "Eery Man's Battle",not every man battles lust. That teaching clearly contradicts I cor 7:8,9. I cor 6:12 also aplies. If masturbation controles you, that is also sin. I know many will say the posibility of being enslaved by it is reason enough to leave it alone. However, following that logic I would also advoid rich desserts, since LOTS of Americans have a real problem with over eating, especially unhealthy foods. Lets be honest, many of us have a reaproblem with glutny, even those uf us who are not Seriously overweight. If we eat after we are full, that is glutny, that's sin. Yet we don't tell other believers that chocolete pie should be advoided because it may lead to sin! In my case I can masturbate without sin. Even if it were acceptable in our society to publicly encourage others to do so, I couldn't due to the posibility of causing a brother to sin, just as Paul warned against openly eating in an idol temple.



petrafan -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/25/2008 11:02:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: nuclear_sidewalk


Even if it's not over a woman, it's the I MUST FEEL GOOD NOW kind of lust. Putting our desires before God's, I'd say.


Simply desiring the good feeling is by no means lust. It's like having a weakness for a cretin food or dessert, it can become gluttony, not it isn't necessarily. wanting the pleasure of an orgasm CAN, become lust if that desire becomes controlling, but it isn't necessarily so. That is definitely a issue only each man can truly know about himself.

Now I don't intend to reduce the seriousness of masturbation becoming a lust in this way, but believers as a whole clearly seem to want to ignore a more prevalent and similar problem of gluttony, even when it is clearly evident at our fellowships!



DaveW -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/25/2008 12:33:23 PM)

Biblically, the word we translate "lust" means only a strong desire. If you are very hungry you lust for food. If you get dehydrated you lust for water. If someone covers your face to smother you you lust for air.

Jesus said in Luke "I have ernestly desired to eat this passover with you" (Luk 22.15) in reference to the Last Supper. That word (lust) is used 2 times in that sentance in the Greek; once as a verb and once as a noun. The sentance could easily be rendered "With lust I have lusted to eat this ...."

Clearly Jesus did not sin in lusting to eat that meal. So at what point does lust become sinful? That is the $64,000 question.



petrafan -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/25/2008 9:41:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW


Clearly Jesus did not sin in lusting to eat that meal. So at what point does lust become sinful? That is the $64,000 question.


Mt 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


In the context here, Jesus is saying if you looketh on a woman to lust after her hath .... In other words withe the intent to lust or desire her you commit adultery.

Jesus is saying to look and want to commit adultery is the same as committing adultery. The word TO indicates that is why one is looking.
The point he is making is intentionally desiring sin is the same a committing the sin.
I've herd this statement being attributed to Luther, but that may or may not be true

"You may not be able to stop a bird from landing on your head, bu you don't have to allow him to make a nest there"



DaveW -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/26/2008 6:34:51 AM)

Petra, please do not base your doctrine on specific English wordings. Translators can do whatever they want with that. You need to look to the original (or at least as close as we can get to the original) language in determining this. Those much better versed in Koine Greek than I have said it refers to the last commandment "Thou shalt not covet" and the looking and lusting must rise to that level before becoming sinful. That fits with the context as other commandments are stated as well.



petrafan -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (6/26/2008 10:44:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

Biblically, the word we translate "lust" means only a strong desire. If you are very hungry you lust for food. If you get dehydrated you lust for water. If someone covers your face to smother you you lust for air.

Jesus said in Luke "I have ernestly desired to eat this passover with you" (Luk 22.15) in reference to the Last Supper. That word (lust) is used 2 times in that sentance in the Greek; once as a verb and once as a noun. The sentance could easily be rendered "With lust I have lusted to eat this ...."

Clearly Jesus did not sin in lusting to eat that meal. So at what point does lust become sinful? That is the $64,000 question.



Elad02 -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/10/2008 11:55:27 AM)

quote:

I think a lot of the folks recommending 'prostate prevention' use are a bit of a joke. You're really thinking about that when you do it? Uh huh. Maybe if you're putting it into a cup for a test. Maybe.

Either way, LOL at the Prostate Prevention agenda. Think I'll pass on 'servicing' myself... Heh.


I don't know to what extent masturbation prevents cancer, but lets say it's quite helpful. Why does one have to think about prevention while masturbating to achieve that end? The purpose of food is to supply our body with the nutrients we need, but how many think about that when eating and how many think about how good the food looks, smells, and tastes? Food has its purpose, but we focus on the enjoyment of it. Why can't the same apply to masturbation? Why can't it just be enjoyed and be beneficial in the end?

quote:

Biblically, the word we translate "lust" means only a strong desire. If you are very hungry you lust for food. If you get dehydrated you lust for water. If someone covers your face to smother you you lust for air.

Jesus said in Luke "I have ernestly desired to eat this passover with you" (Luk 22.15) in reference to the Last Supper. That word (lust) is used 2 times in that sentance in the Greek; once as a verb and once as a noun. The sentance could easily be rendered "With lust I have lusted to eat this ...."

Clearly Jesus did not sin in lusting to eat that meal. So at what point does lust become sinful? That is the $64,000 question.


I think the point it becomes sin is when someone becomes so fixated on obtaining something that it consumes them. I get hungry and desire food so I eat and when I'm full I'm satisfied until I get hungry again. But, in the mean time, I'm not constantly desiring food or eating even though I'm not hungry. I desire money because I like being able to pay my bills and get the things I need, so I go to work and earn my paycheck. I will have to keep getting more because obviously one check won't last forever, but I am not so consumed with obtaining as much wealth as I can possibly get my hands on. Getting rich isn't my focus in life. Desiring things - and even pleasure for that matter - isn't sin. It becomes sin when it's elevated to an unhealthy level, when the object of our desire is our primary focus.

Masturbation is often described as a quick fix and something that doesn't truly satisfy so a person will keep doing it over and over again. How is that any different than the examples I just gave above? Is one truly satisfied after having sex one time in a marriage, or do they continually want more?

quote:

Those much better versed in Koine Greek than I have said it refers to the last commandment "Thou shalt not covet" and the looking and lusting must rise to that level before becoming sinful. That fits with the context as other commandments are stated as well.


That's what I've understood lust to mean - to covet. So, could it be that lust is just desiring to take what rightfully belongs to someone else? Basically wanting to steal? Just desiring something isn't sin, but to steal something definitely is.



19ramman85 -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/12/2008 12:46:27 AM)

quote:

We know that masturbation does not feel 'right' after the deed and there's a reason for that--God has told us so.


OK, Professor, answer me this - How come I don't feel guilty/ashamed at all for masturbating- but even looking at porn for only a brief moment or so- I feel guilty?

Now, granted - I don't consider myself to be a mature Christian- not by a long shot! But I do know the differance between when - "God", makes me feel guilty, as opposed to self/others make me feel guilty (Gods guilt never seems to go away- untill confessed, while self/others - its a lot easier to dismiss).


-charles



19ramman85 -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/12/2008 9:36:29 AM)

I happened to remember this after I had gone to bed ............

In Lev.15:16 - "16 " 'When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

This is as about as close as anyone is ever going to get, in relation to whether masterbation is prohibited by God or not.

And believe me- I INTENTIONALLY researched it- and that is what I came up with - that - "IT" won't make you blind, cause your - "toy" to fall off, make you sterile, This ones my favorite - Make you gay, and so on and so forth. But mostly - GOD IS SILENT ON THE ISSUE!


-charles



DaveW -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/22/2008 1:20:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

GOD IS SILENT ON THE ISSUE!
And that is the bottom line.

Anything said for or against is a manufactured doctrine.



MowTin -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/26/2008 4:39:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: 19ramman85

GOD IS SILENT ON THE ISSUE!
And that is the bottom line.

Anything said for or against is a manufactured doctrine.


I totally agree. Moreover, manufactured doctrine is damaging the church. God created man and he understands men so he didn't create a bunch of laws that men cannot bear.

First manufactured doctrine is adultery. Adultery is a sexual relatinship with ANOTHER MAN'S WIFE. If a married man sleeps with an unmarried woman it is NOT adultery in the Old Testament biblical sense. It is serious sexual IMMORARILTY not adultery. In the Old Testament men could have more than one wife so having a desire for an unmarried woman had to be allowed. Jacob desired Rachel even when he was married to Leah.

But now people have taken a few verses from the NT and manufactured whole new doctrines that totally contradict very detailed doctrines in the old testament. Now not only is a married man sinning with an unmarred woman "adultery" but just desiring an unmarried woman is adultery. Wow, where does that come from?

Now not only can you not have a second wife like Jacob or Abraham--which fine with me I don't want another wife---but now you can't even IMAGINE having another wife.

Men and women are different. God knows that. A porn magazine for women (not gay men) would go out of business. If I dressed in my sexiest t-shirt and shorts and tried to sell myself on the street to women I would go broke. Even if I dropped my price to $1. Women just don't have the same level of desires that men have. God knew this so he made the laws for men a little more forgiving.

But God's laws are just not holy enough for some people. The feel the need to sprinkle in some extra holiness. Now it seems you can commit "adultery" with a magazine or a fantasy. It's amazing to see how God's definition of adultery has been changed by men and women.



ChoirDJ -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/27/2008 2:41:57 AM)

Duh....George?...This thread is about masturbation not sexual immorality or adultery[8|].



Darien8869 -> RE: Don't you all know? (7/27/2008 8:20:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caspian

Gentlemen, gentlemen, we can clear up this entire thread by knowing one thing.

"Everytime you mast-rbate, God kills a kitten."

So please, think of the kittens.

-Caspian


Well, that clinches it for me. I hate cats, so I guess I should masturbate quite often now. Wow, and I've broken the habit years ago. No wonder there are so many cats in the world running loose and scattering peoples trash all over the place.



ChoirDJ -> RE: Don't you all know? (7/27/2008 7:25:49 PM)

I admittedly failed to understand with that last post was all about.



Dagwat -> RE: Don't you all know? (7/28/2008 10:51:07 AM)

I think maybe an attempt to put some humor on this subject?



revbob4God -> RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread (7/30/2008 10:35:48 AM)

Well DDuh, let me answer that question. YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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