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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 4:34:31 AM
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AlohaJoe
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WhatLoveIs--
Whistling is sinful. Prove to me that it isn't. Remember, just because it isn't mentioned in Scripture doesn't mean it isn't sinful, and just because it doesn't hurt anyone doesn't mean it isn't sinful, so those reasons are invalid. God never endorses whistling in Scripture. It is obviously sinful.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 7:44:42 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JudeThree
I honestly cannot imagine how anyone could perform the act of M without some type of visualization or imagination.
That is because of how you wired your brain. I have difficulty believing that anyone can "finish" while filling their mind with that stuff. Often I have to take my thoughts off my wife and concentrate only on the sensations to finish. That is because when I discovered M I had no clue it had anything to do with sex. Once you have had a few orgasms while having your mind thinking on something in particular, your brain wires itself up that way. It can be changed but is difficult.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 7:46:20 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlohaJoe
Whistling is sinful. Prove to me that it isn't. Remember, just because it isn't mentioned in Scripture doesn't mean it isn't sinful, and just because it doesn't hurt anyone doesn't mean it isn't sinful, ...
If you are the least bit out of tune with it, you will hurt my ears severly.
"...doesn't hurt anyone.." HA!
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 8:32:06 AM
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JudeThree
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I did not "wire my brain" . God designed sex to be shared between a man and woman who are married. Simulating the act of sex upon yourself will naturally cause you to think about sex, sooner or later. And I really dont care to hear about the details of your perversion. 
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: JudeThree
I honestly cannot imagine how anyone could perform the act of M without some type of visualization or imagination.
That is because of how you wired your brain. I have difficulty believing that anyone can "finish" while filling their mind with that stuff. Often I have to take my thoughts off my wife and concentrate only on the sensations to finish. That is because when I discovered M I had no clue it had anything to do with sex. Once you have had a few orgasms while having your mind thinking on something in particular, your brain wires itself up that way. It can be changed but is difficult.
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 6:30:03 PM
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wolfvanzandt
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quote:
I did not "wire my brain" . God designed sex to be shared between a man and woman who are married. Simulating the act of sex upon yourself will naturally cause you to think about sex, sooner or later. And I really dont care to hear about the details of your perversion.
Jude, you've stated your opinion. Now attempt to support it - scripturally, or logically - and you will see how indefensible a position it is. You have to show that:
1) any method of bringing yourself to orgasm outside of marriage is outside of the will of God.
2) fantasies about imaginary people are illicit lust and are therefore sinful.
That will be harder to prove than you seem to think.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/3/2005 8:23:29 PM
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PolarBear
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From: Moving to San Antonio!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JudeThree
All the more reason to stop doing it and more evidence that it is indeed sinful. Sex was designed to be shared with a partner (in marriage) so its only natural for somone engaging in M to think of another person. I honestly cannot imagine how anyone could perform the act of M without some type of visualization or imagination.
I do agree that it generally involves thoughts that are sexual to some extent (although some people seem to be exceptions). What I don't think is proven is that all sexual thoughts for singles are sinful. God wired our brains to think about sex when our "stuff" needs to go -- how could we possibly NOT think about it?
We need to see what Scripture actually says on the issue. As far as I know, sexual thoughts are mainly addressed in Matthew 5:28, which says that if you look at a woman lustfully, you're committing adultery in your heart. The big question is what does it mean to look at a woman lustfully? Does that necessarily include every possible sexual thought, even if it is extremely generic? I really don't think so. If you can prove it, feel free.
_____________________________
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2005 3:33:26 AM
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JudeThree
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You guys go ahead and take your chances with M . I think every possible reason for not doing it has already been discussed in this thread. If Im going to err, its going to be on the side of caution. No M for me. If you want to "roll the dice" and see what happens on Judgement Day, that is your decision. But I think it is a foolish one.
_____________________________
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Isaiah 8:20
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/4/2005 6:08:33 PM
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wolfvanzandt
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I don't see it as a chance. All the reasons given to not practice masturbation are fallacious. No basis has been shown to support them. On the other hand, the Bible speaks about masturbation neutrally, there is demonstrable benefits to masturbation, and there is absolutely no indication anywhere that there are negative effects except that people who have been taught that it's bad as part of their culture may experience guilt - which is obviously harmful if left unchecked.
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[Deleted] - 10/5/2005 10:24:17 PM
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Deleted User
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[Deleted] - 10/5/2005 10:37:44 PM
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[Deleted by Admins]
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2005 12:48:47 PM
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Baylor
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From: Southeast
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AlohaJoe
WhatLoveIs--
Whistling is sinful. Prove to me that it isn't. Remember, just because it isn't mentioned in Scripture doesn't mean it isn't sinful, and just because it doesn't hurt anyone doesn't mean it isn't sinful, so those reasons are invalid. God never endorses whistling in Scripture. It is obviously sinful.
"In that day the LORD will whistle for flies from the distant streams of Egypt and for bees from the land of Assyria." Isaiah 7:18
"He lifts up a banner for the distant nations, he whistles for those at the ends of the earth. Here they come, swiftly and speedily!" Isaiah 5:26
Do you think the Lord had to overcome temptations of M? Were those temptations in his mind in the first place? We wouldn't want to think of him doing it, so why did he not participate in it?
_____________________________
In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven. - Matthew 5:16
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2005 2:00:06 PM
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lets456
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Romans 14:23 "If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning."
_____________________________
Acts 17:27 ""His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him--though he is not far from any one of us. For in him we live and move and exist"
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/6/2005 4:57:35 PM
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wolfvanzandt
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quote:
And, for those masturbating 21+ times per month, like wolfvanzandt, it's hard to refrain from over doing it- because it's so habitual.
I have absolutely no problem avoiding overdoing it. It's not habitual - unless you want to call eating or exercise habitual. I simply don't come close to causing myself physical injury. It would be so difficult for me to injure myself masturbating that I don't even think about the chance of physical injury. You would have to masturbate for an hour to damage yourself (unless you have extremely thin skin).
Also, I don't use a lubricant. I can believe that these folks you refer to, WhatLoveIs, has never masturbated. They don't seem to have a clue.
quote:
Also, as stated in the "what if i stop masturbating" thread, masturbating face down (ie. humping a pillow, ect.) can cause irrepreable damage to the muscles inside the penis. It is sound advice to recomend that men should never masturbate themselves face down.
That's not something I've done often but I have done it enough to wonder what these people are talking about. The people that broke themselves must have been on drugs or something. Of course, people are getting to where they don't pay attention to what they're doing more and more and I guess they might do something really stupid.......
quote:
Masturbation feeds the habit of porn veiwing for those, who are addicted to pornography or other sexual sins/perversions/addictions.
I question that. People addicted to porn become aroused and masturbate. The pornography is causing the problem - masturbation is a natural response to any kind of arousal. I guess if you didn't have an orgasm after viewing pornography, it would make it somewhat less pleasant and you might quit but that's not the same thing as saying that masturbation feeds the habit of pornviewing.
quote:
All ministries that effectively set men free from porn, all reccomend porn addicts should stop the practice of masturbation, as well as, eliminating sources of porn in their life.
THat's simply because they already thing masturbation is bad. They're biased. What they need to do is stop using pornography.
quote:
Freedom from masturbation is possible, enjoyable, and more satisfying. And, those testimonies, and the testimonies here on these forums attest to that fact.
I would suspect that most of these folks were already taught from an early age that masturbation is bad and quiting relieved the guilt that they shouldn't have had to start with. It wasn't quiting masturbation that made a difference, it was stopping the guilt. You can get plenty of testamonies of people you do not have (and never have had) problems with masturbation.
To establish facts, you need a lot more than testamonies. You simply don't know the background facts of those testimonies. You need scripture, or solid experimentation.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2005 5:36:39 AM
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SeventhDaySlumber
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Define: Lust, Fantasizing, Purity
Can M fit in all 3 definitions
M is self sexual pleasure induced by what? perhaps sexual perceptions throughout the days/years making sexual hunger/tension more? What feeds this desire for sexual release? whats a healthy sex drive?
We were all born wit a sex drive much do we feed it?
For those who M:Can u truthfully function a month without M and have it not affect an aspect of your relationship with God or people?
Can M be a Bondage(even if u arnt aware of it)M=sexual? M=unpure?
Erection by mental stimulation...and erection by physical stimulation....
Eph:hint fo sexual immorality.
M pertains to sex right?
Just some questions id like some to ask themselves.
_____________________________
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Prayer works! fav verse
Romans 12:8!
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[Deleted] - 10/7/2005 12:31:02 PM
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2005 5:33:06 PM
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wolfvanzandt
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quote:
"Don't let there be even a hint of sexual immorality among you."
Except that masturbation doesn't even hint at sexual immorality.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2005 7:48:04 PM
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perfectWeakness129
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<<READ AND CONSIDER CAREFULLY!!!>>
This thread has gotten out of hand. Period. Both sides. Guys are comming into this thread looking for wisdom and support for something that is a problem in their life only to find a select few bickering about wheather its right or wrong.
How dare we.
This is not the Lords purpose for the Church. As I read through the SEVEN pages of posts, I find bickering and fighting and no hint of help for thoes who have a REAL PROBLEM with this.
Let me put it this way:
If this is an OK thing for you to do, 'n' times per month, then fine, knock yourself out. If you are right with God when you do it, then that is your interpretation of His Spirit. Weather you're right or wrong is debatable, BUT NOT HERE. This thread is under the 'personal' section because thoes who come here DO have a problem, know it, and are seeking council that will build them up and encourage them from what they think/know is sin. These people who DO have a problem with it, are not helped by thoes who DO NOT have a problem with it telling them it is OK. It would be like an alcoholic seeking advice at the bar. There are many people in a bar that do not have a problem with drinking, and they will tell the alcoholic, unbeknown to them, that drinking is OK, because to them it is. But this is not what the alcoholic needs to hear becuase HE DOES have a problem with it.
My advice to all of us is that if you don't have a problem with Masturbation, or are able to objectivly encourage thoes who do to stop, perhaps you need not participate since you seem to be at a level that will unlikely sypathize with those who really need this thread. This is not to alienate you, becuase that also is not the purpose of the Church, but what is going on here is absolutely obsurd. Perhaps a 'Masturbation Is OK' thread is in order, I don't know. But the bickering needs to stop becuase God Knows it is not helping anyone.
For thoes of you who are bickering back... knock it off as well. It takes two to argue and I don't want to single out the "It's OK" crowd at all.
I understand this is a stern rebuke, but I have been glancing back here for the past few days and have obstained from posting becuase I know my anger was internal. I write this now with the utmost desire to better EVERYONE who is in here, especially thoes who have not posted becuase their problem is not being addressed in this forum.
God Bless us all,
Jordan
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/7/2005 8:21:12 PM
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PolarBear
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psst ... whether it's OK or not is the topic of this thread!
At least that was my understanding....
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http://victorymuseum.org
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[Deleted] - 10/7/2005 8:54:08 PM
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/8/2005 4:44:31 PM
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wolfvanzandt
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What WhatLoveIs said.
:)
THis is not particularly a hostile argument. In that I very much respect WLI, It has not gotten out of hand. I've been in hostile arguments before and this isn't one.
Here, pretty much, one side has stated its view and the other side has stated its with rebutal..
With this kind of debate, people are provided with as much information as we can provide to make up their own minds, and frankly, I don't see life and health as a primary issue, so I would say that, if a person believed that masturbation was wrong (in any manner) they should avoid it, even if it did decrease the chances of illness.
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[Deleted] - 10/8/2005 10:31:32 PM
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/9/2005 5:12:06 AM
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AlohaJoe
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I meant to say, "I have a great amount of respect for WLI's convictions." But I'm sure I have a lot of his convictions, too :)
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/9/2005 11:36:14 AM
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mikeman2
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I'm not touching this topic with a 7 foot pole. Yuk, Yuk, Yuk.
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RE: Masturbation - One Stop Thread - 10/9/2005 2:29:04 PM
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waverider
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I think that there is no such thing as "lustless" masturbation because - and I am speaking from experience, not theory - even when we are not fantasizing about a woman, we are indulging an appetite for our own flesh. Being married with a healthy sex life, I have learned that masturbating while on business trips to avoid or deal with temptation - even when I fantasize about my wife - leaves me feeling convicted: I believe that I have indulged, and that I have done something ostensibly normal in an abnormal way (without my wife). That's not God's best.
_____________________________
"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, of love, and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 (KJV)
*******
My blog: http://www.surfcountry.blogspot.com/
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