John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (Full Version)

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TheosCentric -> John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 8:13:43 AM)

John Hagee has taken his love for the Jewish people and Israel too far. He is now officially a heretic (as far as I can tell, if he wasn't before). Check out the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0K1GEs2gAI

Thoughts? He has said in the past that he doesn't target Jews for salvation. I believe he thinks that they don't need a Messiah. That they'll be saved anyway.



JimboFletch -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 8:40:32 AM)

I have no use for John Hagee, but the video doesn't appear to match the audio and it makes me wonder if the whole thing isn't doctored.



TheosCentric -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 8:46:55 AM)

I noticed that too, but I've noticed it on other videos as well that were true. I don't believe it's false. I think it's just a bad recording. I've issued an open letter on my blog as well as sent it to his ministries, calling for him to repent.



JimboFletch -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 9:28:32 AM)

I went to his web site and the description of the book doesn't match the video.

I'm all for exposing heretics, but we have a responsibility to be sure we are not spreading misinformation.

I just have a funny feeling about that video. Have you or do you know anyone that has actually seen that on TV?



TheosCentric -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 9:48:19 AM)

Here's a better video:
http://threshingfloor.onevoicemm.net/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/hagee-10-03-07.wmv


Amazon.com customer reviews



Lapidoth -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 10:15:50 AM)

Shows the trails of rapture and prosperity lead to.
Way, way out in nether land.

That last video was much better than the you tube.

I've quit listening to him years ago.
This should be the final straw, but it won't be.
Itching ears have to be scratched by someone.



TheosCentric -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 10:19:30 AM)

I've never listened to him, except to know what his stances are so I can answer to them when confronted by my Muslim friends.



RECON -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 7:58:10 PM)

His latest book - In Defence Of Israel.

Hagee:

quote:

It will prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvery conspiracy between Rome, the high priest, and Herod to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?"


Jesus refused by deed to be the messiah? He was the messiah so how can he not be the messiah by deed? This man is either crazy or a heretic or both!

What saith scripture?

Act 2:36 Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.

Apparently the Jews were "cut to the heart" that they had killed the messiah and asked "Brothers, what shall we do?" The reply from Peter was "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Act 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Jesus told the woman at the well that he was the messiah:

Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
Joh 4:25 The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things."
Joh 4:26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."


2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

"make merchandise of you" - He's selling a book.



manwe -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 8:45:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkeigley

Shows the trails of rapture and prosperity lead to.
Way, way out in nether land.

That last video was much better than the you tube.

I've quit listening to him years ago.
This should be the final straw, but it won't be.
Itching ears have to be scratched by someone.



and to think some 18,000 people attend his church services - few of which actually preach the gospel or expound other scripture than end-times stuff - you would think it would get old ater awhile.



rosswell59 -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/24/2007 11:51:14 PM)

I don't agree with his position but I don't believe it is heresy either. He seems to be saying that Jesus never intended at His first advent to be the promised Messiah. In a sense that is true in that He knew He would be rejected but nonetheless He made the bona fide offer just as He makes a bona fide offer to all men of salvation today whether they are elect or not. This seems to be where Hagee gets it wrong. He must see that Christ will only offer Himself at His second coming where He will be received as Messiah. His error seems to be that of failure to recognize that He did offer Himself in that capacity and that Israel truly did reject Him under the Old Covenant. The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is a chilling testimony to that.
Yours in Christ,
Ross



Ezra -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 1:25:42 AM)

quote:

I don't agree with his position but I don't believe it is heresy either. He seems to be saying that Jesus never intended at His first advent to be the promised Messiah.


John Hagee is preaching rank heresy, and the sooner Christians recognize this, the sooner they will stop listening to his lies.

When Christ rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, He in fact proclaimed Himself to be the Messiah (Mt. 21:1-11).

Note carefully:

All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet [Zech. 9:9] saying, Tell ye the daughter of Sion, BEHOLD THY KING COMETH UNTO THEE, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass... And the multitudes that went before, and that followed cried, saying HOSANNA TO THE SON OF DAVID: BLESSED IS HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD... And the multitude said, this is JESUS THE PROPHET OF NAZARETH of Galilee'.

Zechariah also adds "He is just and having salvation"

We see here that the multitudes -- the ordinary people -- recognized Christ as King-Messiah, the Son of David whom David called Lord, and also the promised Prophet who was foretold by Moses. All those are seen as aspects of the Messiah, who is the Son of Man in Daniel, and the King who is also the Prophet and the Great High Priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Thus John Hagee has proved himself to be a liar and a false teacher preparing the way for the Anti-Christ. And the second video synchronizes the audio and video perfectly.



rosswell59 -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 3:36:27 AM)

Ezra,
I don't see this as preparation for the anti-christ unless he denies the first advent and Christ's work on the cross altogether. He seems simply to be denying the offer made to Israel. This is no worse than replacement theology which has the church replacing Israel as God's earthly people with no future hope for Israel.
Yours in Christ,
Ross



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 7:35:31 AM)

I think that this is a poor way to say what Hagee is actually attempting to prove. What Hagee says (and rather accurately) is that Jesus in his first coming did not fulfill the prophecies of a Messiah that would crush the physical enemies of Israel. Now a full rendition of this theology is that Jesus IS the Messiah of our souls and the whole world because he saves us from our sin, and He will BE the PHYSICAL Messiah of Israel at his second coming. The idea is that there are two parts of the Messiah message, (A) that the anointed one will turn back wickedness from the people (the work of the cross), and (B) that he would save Israel from the hands of her oppressors (which would have then been Rome, later will be the Antichrist). So what did Israel miss? They missed Jesus because they were looking at the salvation of the soul and the salvation of the kingdom as the same event. The way to tell is that the disciples asked Jesus "Will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" Jesus, however, did the saving the soul bit at the cross, and will be the King of Blood at His second coming... It is at the second coming that the pieces will fall into place that Israel as a whole will accept Jesus as the Messiah. Make sense?

Now, I think Hagee has a very unfortunate choice of words to attempt to convey his message, but I think he does have a good point or two (if only one or two). So I think Hagee has adopted the Jewish mindset of the salvation of the kingdom being the qualifier for being the Messiah, which would be why he says that Jesus did not come to be the Messiah. I think it is at this point that we all thank God that His ways are not ours.

Adam



earthless -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 8:01:43 AM)

Considering Hagee's many severe theological problems - I don't pay any mind to him.



rosswell59 -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 9:35:26 AM)

I don't know alot about Hagee's theology except that I understand him to be dispensational and I am as well. My take on his statement has that in view. I think I pretty much agree with FurGodWurLivin on this.
Yours in Christ,
Ross



cajunhillbilly -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 9:47:15 AM)

Thus showing where extreme dispensationism leads. Why I left that camp years ago.



JimboFletch -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 10:13:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cajunhillbilly

Thus showing where extreme dispensationism leads. Why I left that camp years ago.

I agree. One would think from Hagee that the sole purpose of salvation is to spend the remainder of your life studying, preaching, and thinking nothing but eschatology - and only the pulp version not even introduced until very recent times. Sad...



yod -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 10:17:32 AM)

If he is saying that Yeshua did not fulfill the role of Messiah in his first coming, then I agree.

He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the Earth. He will come again as the Messiah, Lion of the Tribe of Judah, and King of Israel to rule and to reign from His Throne in Jerusalem.

Although I don't agree with Hagee's approach on a few things, I think this particular statement is helpful when witnessing to "pre-saved" Jewish people



Ezra -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 10:34:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosswell59

Ezra,
I don't see this as preparation for the anti-christ unless he denies the first advent and Christ's work on the cross altogether. He seems simply to be denying the offer made to Israel. This is no worse than replacement theology which has the church replacing Israel as God's earthly people with no future hope for Israel.
Yours in Christ,
Ross


Ross:

Hagee denies that the Jews today need to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, just like every other sinner.



cajunhillbilly -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 11:14:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ezra

quote:

ORIGINAL: rosswell59

Ezra,
I don't see this as preparation for the anti-christ unless he denies the first advent and Christ's work on the cross altogether. He seems simply to be denying the offer made to Israel. This is no worse than replacement theology which has the church replacing Israel as God's earthly people with no future hope for Israel.
Yours in Christ,
Ross


Ross:

Hagee denies that the Jews today need to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, just like every other sinner.



Thus proving again where dispensationism leads. A denial of the all sufficience of the work of Christ



RECON -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 11:53:48 AM)

If Hagee has a valid point he should just clearly state it. He's speaking heresy and then going into conspiracy and then trying to sell me a book about it. Stop making up excuses for him.

Lets remember here is actual words:

quote:

It will prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvery conspiracy between Rome, the high priest, and Herod to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?"


And where does the conspiracy info come from?



john_mark -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 12:19:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RECON



Jesus told the woman at the well that he was the messiah:

Joh 4:21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
Joh 4:25 The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things."
Joh 4:26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am he."




well said

anyone who wants say that Jesus refused by word and deed to be the Messiah has to explain this passage away



cajunhillbilly -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 12:20:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RECON

If Hagee has a valid point he should just clearly state it. He's speaking heresy and then going into conspiracy and then trying to sell me a book about it. Stop making up excuses for him.

Lets remember here is actual words:

quote:

It will prove that Jesus did not come to earth to be the messiah. It will prove that there was a Calvery conspiracy between Rome, the high priest, and Herod to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist too dangerous to live. Since Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the messiah, how can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered?"


And where does the conspiracy info come from?


His conspiracy info come from the same place any conspiracy info comes. His imagination. Conspiracy theories are very popular.



earthless -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 1:59:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cajunhillbilly

Thus showing where extreme dispensationism leads. Why I left that camp years ago.


I agree.



rosswell59 -> RE: John Hagee denies Jesus is the Messiah (10/25/2007 10:33:12 PM)

quote:

Ross:

Hagee denies that the Jews today need to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, just like every other sinner.

I didn't get that from what I saw but if he believes that he is really off. I wonder if he thinks Israel is being saved nationally now before the church is even raptured?
Yours in Christ,
Ross



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