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Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 7:45:29 PM
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ladyichigo
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From: Makiki
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My 5 year old is asking me about the "3 guys in God" (her words). The whole "Godhead 3 in 1" is mind boggling as is even for a grown up, so I tried using an apple as an analogy...but I don't think it really helped. I told her, "an apple has three parts, the apple peel, the apple meat/pulp/flesh..thing, and the apple core. All those things are parts of the whole APPLE, and just like the apple, God has 3 parts (I don't think that's the right term to use...), God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit...." I think I failed miserably.
How do I explain the Trinity in an easy enough way for a child to understand??...or where should I start??
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Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 8:54:31 PM
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rcjames
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For a little different take on it, when I speak to the younger ones I use their daddy as an example; Your daddy is your daddy, he is also your mama's husband, and he is your uncle's brother, but he is still just one person.
For a little older ones an owner of a small Pizza shop owner works well. This guy is the big boss owner, but the is the welcomer who invites you in, and is also the worker who makes the Pizza and serves it.
Thanks
RC
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 8:59:57 PM
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Okami
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It's a relationship we can't comprehend fully, so it will of course be hard to explain to anyone.
I like the analogies rc posted.
St.Patrick used a 3 leaf clover.
I was trying to come up with one about the sun, using the body, the light, and the warmth.
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 9:16:13 PM
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karlie
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When my oldest asked that, I just explained that God was Jesus's Father, and Jesus had the spirit of God in him, then that spirit was sent to help us do the right thing, so they were the same even though slightly different. It was enough for her at the time, and we developed that as she got older.
With the youngest, she wanted something more concrete, so we did the egg analogy(the egg shell, egg white and the yolk). Each has a different function and a different name, but they are all still parts of the same egg.
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 10:03:53 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
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My favorite is still the St. Patrick version..... I was going to quote it, but I saw someone else beat me to it. The apple is a good idea... for older ones, I like the philosophical idea of "Body, soul and spirit". One thing is for sure, you are going to have to go parabolic on explaining it.... maybe a field trip would help. Take the little one out to a park, and try and find things that have three parts (IE, a tree has leaves, branches, and a trunk)... then you can explain that God is kind of the same way. And I emphasize, "kind of".
Adam
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:02:29 PM
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figmentPez
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Personally, I don't like any analogies for explaining the trinity. God is unique, in the strictest sense of the word. There are none like the LORD.
God is not like an egg, or an apple, because the Son is the very image of the Father. If you have seen the Son, you know the Father. However, if you have never seen an egg before, or an apple, and see only the shell or only the skin, you have no idea what the insides look like.
God is not like a man who is father to his children, son to his father and brother to his brother, because God is His own Father, and Son. For a man to be a son, there must be another man who was his father. This is not true of God, there is no other God that the Son is the Son of.
God is not like a pizza shop owner, because He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, always and at the same time. The pizza shop owner doesn't greet you and show you to your seats at the same time he is in the kitchen making pizzas.
God is not like the body, soul and spirit of a man. A man's body is not the son of his spirit or soul, none of these three begat one of the other, as the Son was eternally begotten of the Father.
All of these have certain aspects that show that three can be one, but none of these are three in one in the same way that God is three in one, because nothing in all of creation is exactly like God. God alone is God. God alone is triune. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with these analogies if they were only a small part of what most Christians are taught about trinitarian theology, but they aren't. For many Christians they are the only teaching they ever receive, and their knowledge of Christian doctrine as a whole suffers because of it.
How do we explain God to a 5 year old? I don't think we should. I think there is far too much "explanation" going on in teaching of trinitarian doctrine, and far too little reliance on scripture. Notice that not a single verse has been quoted so far. Scripture should be the first place we go to understand who God is. What we should be saying is that God has told us certain things about Himself. If someone has trouble accepting that what the Bible says is true can be possible, then we can go to analogies to show that it isn't illogical, but analogies shouldn't be the first thing we go to when trying to talk about the nature of God.
Here are some verses that might help:
These verses show that the Father and Son are distinct from each other
John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 6:38
"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Luke 23:46
And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last.
These verses tell us that God is one:
Deuteronomy 6:4
"Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!
Isaiah 44:6
"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last,And there is no God besides Me.
These verses tell us that Jesus Christ is God:
John 1:1
(see above)
Revelation 1:17-18
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man And He placed His right hand on me, saying, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.
I understand that a 5 year old may not be ready for comparing these scriptures, but if a parent is going to talk to their child about it, they need to be aware of what the Bible does and does not teach about God's triune nature. God speaks to us through scripture, and scripture tells us certain things about Him. What He has told us is that He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There are some things we know, and some things that are likely beyond human knowing.
There are many more verses that show God's triune nature, as well. All throughout scripture.
Some important points about trinitarian doctrine:
When we talk about God being three persons, we don't mean three humans. Roughly speaking, we mean that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit each think, feel and act, in and of themselves. They each have a mind, even though all three are in perfect unity.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are always who they are. The Father doesn't become the Son or anything like that.
The Son has always been the Son of God, He didn't become the Son when He was born of Mary. The Son really is begotten of the Father, even if this begetting happened from eternity, and not at some point in time.
The ancient creeds are a good summation of the Christian faith, maybe not for a 5 year old student, but for anyone who wants to teach on the matter. (just don't use creeds as a substitute for scripture)
Apostle's Creed
Nicene Creed
Athanasian Creed
(Oh, and just to show I'm not completely anti-analogy. If you take three glasses of water, and pour them into one pitcher, you don't get three pitchers. 3 persons don't equal three gods, because divinity and personage are different things. However, God isn't finite like water is, and a glass of water isn't the fullness of a pitcher, so even this analogy falls short.)
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I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:07:04 PM
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Okami
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Try running that by a 5yr old , then let us know how it went.
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:09:38 PM
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karlie
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:14:31 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Okami
Try running that by a 5yr old , then let us know how it went.
I'm not trying to teach a 5 year old with that post. I'm trying to inform the parent teaching the 5 year old. There is a reason why teachers usually have a higher education than the grade level they'll be teaching. Not all 5 year olds are the same. What works with one will not work with another. I do not know this 5 year old. Since I can't know what approach they need to hear, I just want to make sure the teacher knows what they're talking about, so that what they do teach will be true.
What do we tell a 5 year old? In general: That God has told us that He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, always has been, always will be. When the Son was on earth, He spoke to the Father, and about how the Father sent Him. We tell them that the Son is just as much God as the Father is, but that the Son is not the Father, even though there is only one God. We tell them that we don't know exactly how this is, because God is much bigger than we can fully understand. Then we can talk about how other things are three and one at the same time, but how God is more amazing than all of them. How exactly this message will get told, and how much at once, depends on the child. Learning about God is an ongoing project, for all of us, because of that there is a great need to build on a solid foundation of truth.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:24:07 PM
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karlie
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quote:
because God is much bigger than we can fully understand. Then we can talk about how other things are three and one at the same time, but how God is more amazing than all of them.
Very true...God is much bigger than even us adults can fully understand! But, His word attempts to put it into words we can try to understand so it makes sense to us, and He is gracious and allows us to grow as we learn more of Him. I see nothing wrong with doing that for a five year old. Yes, if 10 years later, they are still thinking of the trinity as an egg, then that's a problem! But, my children were pretty smart(and we were capable parents) and they knew we weren't equating God with an egg! They eventually grew in their knowledge of Him, just as we adults do, and as gown young women, they have a very good understanding of the trinity and haven't yet mistaken it for an egg
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:24:56 PM
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hypernike
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when one explains trinity, one should be wary that the analogy does not fall into either tritheism or modalism.
analogy with parts are tritheism. god has no parts but indivisible and inseparable. also one should consider that the essence of the three is retained at all times.
a father that is also a husband and an uncle while retaining the essence of the three but reduces the distinction of persons to a mere role. and therefore is modalism.
shell, yolk and white though gives clear distinction betwen the three, loses the one substance attribute of the trinity. shell is not egg, neither yolk is not egg but only parts of it. it is therefore tritheism.
the best example is the sun, it's beams/rays and light. one cannot exist without the other. and though there is distinction between the three, they essence of light is shared by three.
also a lake that flows to a main river that branches to countless tributaries that nourishes plants is a good example for the same reason. distinction are clear and yet the substance of water is all there.
godspeed
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/30/2007 11:26:34 PM
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karlie
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quote:
shell, yolk and white though gives clear distinction betwen the three, loses the one substance attribute of the trinity. shell is not egg, neither yolk is not egg but only parts of it. it is therefore tritheism.
Oh my goodness! We're talking about 5 year olds, not college theo majors!
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 5:47:48 AM
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RobertDach
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quote:
For a little different take on it, when I speak to the younger ones I use their daddy as an example; Your daddy is your daddy, he is also your mama's husband, and he is your uncle's brother, but he is still just one person.
I think this is the best analogy for that level of maturity. They'll have a lifetime to work out the fine details in the big picture.
You could also use the example that a Mother can be a sister, and a daughter, and it's all the same person.
< Message edited by RobertDach -- 10/31/2007 5:55:31 AM >
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 9:17:30 AM
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phreddy
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Last night when I was putting my five year old to bed, she asked me when God's birthday was. This evolved into a discussion of the trinity. After a few minutes of explanation she said," Daddy, it's time to stop talking now." and went to sleep. lol
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 11:00:02 AM
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Szaftoo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
How do we explain God to a 5 year old? I don't think we should. I think there is far too much "explanation" going on in teaching of trinitarian doctrine, and far too little reliance on scripture. Notice that not a single verse has been quoted so far. Scripture should be the first place we go to understand who God is. What we should be saying is that God has told us certain things about Himself. If someone has trouble accepting that what the Bible says is true can be possible, then we can go to analogies to show that it isn't illogical, but analogies shouldn't be the first thing we go to when trying to talk about the nature of God.
Just curious, have you ever spoken to a five year old about things of the Lord? They are extremely curious and open and have questions every day which need to be answered. Scripture tells us to be ready with an answer for the hope that is in us and that includes our kids every time they ask. We should be thrilled when our kids have questions.
I agree with rejames, we told our son he was a son, brother, cousin, etc and he got it geared to his age level.
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 2:27:57 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Szaftoo
quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
How do we explain God to a 5 year old? I don't think we should. I think there is far too much "explanation" going on in teaching of trinitarian doctrine, and far too little reliance on scripture. Notice that not a single verse has been quoted so far. Scripture should be the first place we go to understand who God is. What we should be saying is that God has told us certain things about Himself. If someone has trouble accepting that what the Bible says is true can be possible, then we can go to analogies to show that it isn't illogical, but analogies shouldn't be the first thing we go to when trying to talk about the nature of God.
Just curious, have you ever spoken to a five year old about things of the Lord? They are extremely curious and open and have questions every day which need to be answered. Scripture tells us to be ready with an answer for the hope that is in us and that includes our kids every time they ask. We should be thrilled when our kids have questions.
Honestly, I haven't talked to any five year olds about the trinity, I haven't dealt with many 5 year olds at all. However, I see no reason why we should tell someone what amounts to a lie, just because the truth is hard to accept.
I agree, we should be thrilled when children have questions. Which is why I tried to equip ladyichigo to be able to answer the questions for her child, with truth from scripture. There is no reason to teach a child something that is contrary to what scripture teaches, just because it's an easier answer to give.
quote:
I agree with rejames, we told our son he was a son, brother, cousin, etc and he got it geared to his age level.
quote:
ORIGINAL: RobertDach
You could also use the example that a Mother can be a sister, and a daughter, and it's all the same person.
And both of these are far enough from the truth to be lies. The Father says of the Son "You are my son, today I have begotten you." and "I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me." (Hebrews 1:5, referencing Psalm 2:7 and 2Samuel 7:14) A mother cannot say to herself "you are my daughter", a father cannot say to himself "I have begotten you".
quote:
ORIGINAL: karlie
I see nothing wrong with doing that for a five year old. Yes, if 10 years later, they are still thinking of the trinity as an egg, then that's a problem!
There are many Christians who, 20, 30, 50 years later are still believing that God is an egg, or a pizza, or a man who wears different hats. I've seen it. I've argued with them on these forums. Too many Christians don't know what the Bible teaches about God's triune nature, because they've been told that these analogies are adequate teaching on the subject.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 4:27:04 PM
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mariadreamer
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Here is what I did at the Vacation Bible School. I lit a candle and said, look, the fire is like God the Father, the Light is like Jesus Christ and the heat is like the Holy Spirit. They are 3 in one. This is not perfect, but it gives some idea.
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 8:00:42 PM
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ladyichigo
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Mr. FigmentPez,
Thank you for your time in giving me scriptural references that pertain to the Trinity.
I was just trying to get some ideas of an easier way to explain the Triune nature of God to my child. In no way am I putting analogies before God’s Word. I was raised going to Sunday School, and growing up I was taught of the truth of the Trinity from scriptures and was able to understand it and grasp the concept of it from similar analogies stated in prior postings. I thought I could use analogies to help my daughter grasp the concept of the Trinity because as with all people, it is easier to understand something when you can relate it to something you are familiar with. As Jesus had used the mustard seed and the yeast in a woman’s dough to compare it with the kingdom of God in Luke 13:18-21, I thought I could compare the Trinity with something my daughter is familiar with to help her understand it better.
_____________________________
Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 10/31/2007 9:49:58 PM
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facedown
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to be perfectly honest, i find it fascinating that one would need to explain trinitarian theology to a five year old.
that the kid asked, may not be a suprise - we we often feast on knowledge.
but one can taste an apple and be nurished without knowing it was an apple.
to often we try to present the apple as an apple down to it's chemical make up, it's texture, it's variance in taste and what that means and explain in scientific forumals how it's different than an orange - or how a green apple is different than a red apple.
i wonder what god thinks of how we jack so much stuff up?
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 11/6/2007 8:55:29 AM
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librarian_ponderer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mariadreamer
Here is what I did at the Vacation Bible School. I lit a candle and said, look, the fire is like God the Father, the Light is like Jesus Christ and the heat is like the Holy Spirit. They are 3 in one. This is not perfect, but it gives some idea.
Though I share FigPrez's view that analogies do not work well in explaining God, I do think that this analogy might be the closest, simply because it does illustrate something essential about the ancient Church's understanding of the Trinity. God is the source of the Deity, Christ is begotten of the Father before all worlds, and the Holy Spirit does proceed from the Father. So this analogy is relatively closer than other analogies. The candle is the source and fount, the light is begotten of the candle, and the heat proceeds from the candle (and through the light). The only caveat I have is that we need to make clear that the Son and the Holy Spirit, though they are from the Father, they are equal to the Father in essence and they are eternal and one with the Father. The original greek term for "persons" was "hypostasis" and this is used for the Trinity. Three hypostasis in one ousia.
Joe
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 11/6/2007 10:51:54 AM
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lilyofthefield
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One analogy that I like for kids is about water. Ice, water, and steam are all still water, yet they have very different properties and uses.
Of course, no analogy will ever perfectly explain the mystery of the Trinity. We just can't completely comprehend the full nature of God.
Some people won't like this comparison, but I also remember that Jesus said that "a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh". Obviously they are still two people, but in God's eyes, they are "one flesh". It's a beautiful mystery.
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A boy is Truth with dirt on its face, Beauty with a cut on its finger, Wisdom with bubble gum in its hair and the Hope of the future with a frog in its pocket. - Alan Beck
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 11/6/2007 12:53:09 PM
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PeterD
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Hello and good afternoon!
I feel like a five year old when it comes to explaining the Holy Trinity.
What does the Word of God say.
What does the Lord Jesus say.
John 11:25-27
25 At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; 26yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. 27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. (ESV)
also,
John 16:25
25"I have said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech but will tell you plainly about the Father. (ESV)
I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ!!!
1 John 5:6-8
Testimony Concerning the Son of God
6This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. (ESV)
And one day when I become a father to my children, I will give them these Bible passages and more until
there old and gray....
your brother in the Lord Jesus Christ
Peter Daniel
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 11/6/2007 5:40:09 PM
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figmentPez
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lilyofthefield
One analogy that I like for kids is about water. Ice, water, and steam are all still water, yet they have very different properties and uses.
Well, just so that people know the flaw in this analogy. Water readily changes from one state to another. Ice melts into water, water evaporates into steam or water vapor. However, God does not change. The Father is always the Father, the Son always the Son and the Holy Spirit is always the Holy Spirit. At no time did or does the Father become the Son or anything like that, as many falsely claim. This is why I don't like the water analogy, because it's much to close to the false teaching of modalism for my liking.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 11/6/2007 11:50:37 PM
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lilyofthefield
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quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: lilyofthefield
One analogy that I like for kids is about water. Ice, water, and steam are all still water, yet they have very different properties and uses.
Well, just so that people know the flaw in this analogy. Water readily changes from one state to another. Ice melts into water, water evaporates into steam or water vapor. However, God does not change. The Father is always the Father, the Son always the Son and the Holy Spirit is always the Holy Spirit. At no time did or does the Father become the Son or anything like that, as many falsely claim. This is why I don't like the water analogy, because it's much to close to the false teaching of modalism for my liking.
Which is why I said no analogy can properly explain the nature of God. I don't think anyone here is claiming there is a perfect analogy. I am not saying God is water or even just like water. I am saying here is an instance where there are three items which are the same, yet different. That may help a child understand the idea and validity of the Trinity.
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Caden is here!
A boy is Truth with dirt on its face, Beauty with a cut on its finger, Wisdom with bubble gum in its hair and the Hope of the future with a frog in its pocket. - Alan Beck
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RE: Explaining the Trinity to a 5 year old - 11/7/2007 10:49:52 AM
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librarian_ponderer
Posts: 376
Joined: 9/12/2007
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The common patristic analogy that was used is similar to the candle analogy. The Father is the Sun and both light and heat emanate from the sun. The light is Christ who is "the Light of the world," and the heat is the Holy Spirit that makes our hearts burn. Notice that the three remain distinct with the sun being the origin of both. Also, the light & heat emanate from the sun in different ways, so the light is begotten of the sun and the heat proceeds from the sun. Here we have probably the closest analogy we can find to the classical Nicene, Trinitarian faith.
Joe
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