Youth Leader (Full Version)

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soloving -> Youth Leader (12/1/2007 11:45:10 PM)

Ok, I was going show a pic but it wouldnt allow me to. So would you have an issue if your childs youth leader were to wear a halter top or mini skirt?



Szaftoo -> RE: Youth Leader (12/2/2007 8:41:03 AM)

I think I might have to see it first. Aren't halters the tops that wrap around the neck and expose the upper back? Also, how "mini" is the "mini"?
In any case, they shouldn't be worn to church.



Kat_D -> RE: Youth Leader (12/2/2007 11:36:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: soloving

Ok, I was going show a pic but it wouldnt allow me to. So would you have an issue if your childs youth leader were to wear a halter top or mini skirt?


If the youth leader is a male, definitely!!![:D]

But seriously, I may not have a problem if she wore it to a youth ministry beach BBQ, but I might if she wore it to church.



musicboss11 -> RE: Youth Leader (12/2/2007 12:53:43 PM)

I would have a problem with it. A youth leader should be an example to the youth that they lead. Espically because youth are very easily influenced. If a youth leader dresses in a way that they should not, than that gives a green light to the youth to do the same. "Well, my church leader does it so it must be OK".



RJR_fan -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 6:42:33 AM)

I would have a problem with the "youth leader" being a "she." Unless, of course, said "leader" is mentoring a group of girls -- and even then, I'd rather my daughter were mentored by older, more mature ladies. Come to think of it, I have problems with the whole "youth group" thing that so often stresses excitement and so rarely deals with the rigorous thinking it takes to be a fruitful Christian over the course of a lifetime.

Although, if excitement is the goal and evangelistic lure of a "youth program," I can see the practical value of a plunging neckline, which keeps the lads on their toes! [;)]

That reminds me -- I need to get my daughters working on the Westminster Shorter Catechism again. Q1: What is the chief end of man?



miasma -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 10:05:28 AM)

quote:

So would you have an issue if your childs youth leader were to wear a halter top or mini skirt?


Absolutely.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 10:07:41 AM)

Is this a trick question?

The answer is too obvious.

A youth leader that does not lead by example should not be a youth leader....what is her goal of showing off her stuff??



miasma -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 10:13:50 AM)

A halter top can be tasteful*, mind you, they're not all cut "down to there," but not appropiate to wear in a position of leadership, especially over children.

Esp. given all too often, I see women wearing them totally unproperly (ie, with the wrong support garment underneath).

*A halter top refers to a top that is upheld via the neck. Examples:

http://pingz.com.sg/images/mgdiosc1a13ku5.jpg

http://snapdragonsbaby.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/springshowersmodel1.JPG

http://tembisboutique.com/files/images/SA400736_1.jpg



youthrev -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 10:48:01 AM)

As a youth pastor, I have very strict standard of dress for myself and all my leaders, as well as the youth. The issue is not whether a halter top is appropriate so much as it is, is it appropriate for a leader setting the example of modesty for the youth in her watch.

The same goes for the mini-skirt. And cheer shorts (especially with writing on the rear). I could go on. The key is modesty and submission as an example.


quote:

Come to think of it, I have problems with the whole "youth group" thing that so often stresses excitement and so rarely deals with the rigorous thinking it takes to be a fruitful Christian over the course of a lifetime.


Just because it's a youth ministry doesn't mean there is not rigorous thinking involved and the Spirit's moving. Just a note.


Thanks.



miasma -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 10:59:50 AM)

"And cheer shorts (especially with writing on the rear)."

Those are SO tacky and tasteless, no matter what your job is.



gonzoguy -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 1:19:08 PM)

It would depend on what the halter top actually exposes and how mini the mini-skirt actually is.

I think its easy for us to jump to conclusions based on the stigma that some of these articles of clothing get.



miasma -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 1:23:03 PM)

I really can't see how there'd be any confusion, it's a "mini skirt" and not "a skirt" for a reason.

As I posted, halter tops aren't inherently immodest, I linked to some examples, but that doesn't necessarily make them appropiate to wear to work in a church setting, with children.



gonzoguy -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 1:32:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: miasma

I really can't see how there'd be any confusion, it's a "mini skirt" and not "a skirt" for a reason.

This assumes that one can tell just by looking at a skirt whether it is actually mini or whether it just happens to be a shorter skirt.

quote:

As I posted, halter tops aren't inherently immodest, I linked to some examples, but that doesn't necessarily make them appropiate to wear to work in a church setting, with children.

And it doesn't necessarily make them inappropriate either.



ta_mosquito -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 1:36:16 PM)

Moving this from FaithWalk to Morality/Ethics.



cow451 -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 3:08:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: musicboss11

I would have a problem with it. A youth leader should be an example to the youth that they lead. Espically because youth are very easily influenced. If a youth leader dresses in a way that they should not, than that gives a green light to the youth to do the same. "Well, my church leader does it so it must be OK".


A scantily clad youth leader might increase male attendance. [:D]Most guys go to youth groups girls go to, anyway.



Hayseed -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 4:50:42 PM)

I'm wondering if the "youth leader" in this thread is the "trophy wife" in another?[:D]

For the record, scantily clad (if, indeed, you are talking about "scantily clad") youth leaders I'm not in agreement with. I was a young man at one time and know the deal.



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (12/3/2007 5:40:31 PM)

[Deleted by Admins]



gonzoguy -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 5:44:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deadhead

If someone in a leadership role was that spiritually immature we would probably leave as a family.

Now that's awfully pretentious to assume that someone whose style differs from your own is "spiritually immature" don't you think?

I might give you clueless or ignorant, but spiritually immature?

*Edit: I could point towards your leaving a church due to a disagreement about wardrobe as spiritually mature...



Deleted User -> [Deleted] (12/3/2007 5:56:57 PM)

[Deleted by Admins]



Hayseed -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 5:57:42 PM)

I would assume that a "leader" that didn't understand the proper way of dressing with modesty and not flaunting their "goods" as "spiritually immature" as well.

And I think my rap sheet around here would testify that I'm no prude.[;)]



gonzoguy -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 6:03:48 PM)

This hinges on whether the outfit was actually "slutty" or not. Regardless, one's spiritual maturity level is not to be judged - especially when it comes to their wardrobe.



Hayseed -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 6:09:13 PM)

If it is indeed "slutty" and they though nothing about being a leader and wearing it I say it has ALL to do with their spiritual maturity. I don't know any way around that.

If they have a mental problem that truly keeps them from understanding proper behavior then they shouldn't be in that certain position anyway.



gonzoguy -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 6:11:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayseed

If it is indeed "slutty" and they though nothing about being a leader and wearing it I say it has ALL to do with their spiritual maturity. I don't know any way around that.

If they have a mental problem that truly keeps them from understanding proper behavior then they shouldn't be in that certain position anyway.

Well motivation is a huge thing that determines one's spiritual maturity and since you cannot know motivation, you are not free to assume.

Regardless, since we don't know how the outfit actually looked and we were only provided with a vague description (that may or may not be accurate as far the miniskirt goes) then we don't really know.

Why not, instead of judging the individual's spiritual state, either approach them directly or their supervisor and say something?



Hayseed -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 6:41:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gonzoguy

Well motivation is a huge thing that determines one's spiritual maturity and since you cannot know motivation, you are not free to assume.


Okay, then wouldn't you think that a mature person would know enough to not think that was okay? Actions (how one lives ones life) are the number one indicator of their maturity in all matters. This is assuming, indeed that we really are talking about scantily clad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: gonzoguy

Regardless, since we don't know how the outfit actually looked and we were only provided with a vague description (that may or may not be accurate as far the miniskirt goes) then we don't really know.

Why not, instead of judging the individual's spiritual state, either approach them directly or their supervisor and say something?


Totally agreed. However, I would have to judge the person's spiritual state prior to any confrontation to determine propriety.

You're right, though. This may not really be a case of true skanky wardrobage. I'm just taking the OP at face value. [;)]



gonzoguy -> RE: Youth Leader (12/3/2007 6:51:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayseed

Okay, then wouldn't you think that a mature person would know enough to not think that was okay? Actions (how one lives ones life) are the number one indicator of their maturity in all matters. This is assuming, indeed that we really are talking about scantily clad.

Wearing something a little too revealing is not an action that I find necessarily tied to spiritual maturity. I have met many spiritually mature individuals who, in my opinion, show a little too much cleavage or wear clothing that they shouldn't. But I would never presume to know their spiritual state based on such. Spiritual maturity manifests in qualitatively different ways than the clothes that a person wears.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hayseed

Totally agreed. However, I would have to judge the person's spiritual state prior to any confrontation to determine propriety.

Why is that?



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