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RE: Mormonism? - 8/17/2006 7:37:48 PM
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tony.nz
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I think that what you need to be wary about is that Mormons will often ask you to "pray over" the Book of Mormon, or whatever, and seek a sort of "spiritual witness' to all of this. The problem is of course, that we are told that even satan himself can appear as an angel of light, and there are many belief systems advocating a spiritual enlightenment, from hinduism, new age teachings, ufo cults, freemasonry, wicca, etc. These are all contradictory, so it is obvious that there are some deceiving spirits around. Now Mormons have told me, God won't let you be deceived". Oh yeah? Why should I be arrogant enough to think that I can not be deceived, when so many are? And, if I seek a "spiritual enlightenment" to something that I know is contradictory to the Word of God, have I not sinned? Since, I know, that a true prophet of God will not contradict other prophets, and God has given His word as a guide to my path, and a light for my feet? The Spirit of God will confirm the Word of God, not contradict it.
Then of course, there is the charge that you are a "pharisee" for not taking their witness. Just as the pharisees rejected Jesus, you are rejecting them. That is of course, pulled out by every other cult out there as well. The point is, that Jesus did not condemn the pahrisees for believing the word of God, but for not believing it. They had the prophets who spoke of Him, but they did not recognise His Presence. Furthermore, they were not condemned for following the law of God, but for adding to it the commands of men and treating those as law. I am sure that if they had thought of a law on wearing of funny underwear, they would have added that as well. Joseph Smith beat them to it on that one.
The Word of God commands us to test the spirits. Mormonism when tested against the Word is exposed for what it is. Just one example, although scripture is clear and explicit that there is no God before or after Jehovah, Mormonism claims that there is an infinite line of Gods, and that we can become a God also. This is not only contradictory to scripture, it is logically impossible!
Remember, it is a spiritual war, the Spirit of God will witness the Truth to those He will save, but you should not expect much response from the rest. There are those who are wilfully blinded, don't expect to win using logic and common sense.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/18/2006 6:25:20 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
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quote:
ORIGINAL: brideoffire
My aunt married a man who is a high priest in the mormon church and he regularly chases women and frequents
bars but they have 5 children and live on a farm wih livestock but the mormon church owned EVERYTHING!
I am a Mormon and I don't know of any case or family where the Mormon church owns EVERYTHING. You may have to provide more details on such an accusation.
Now, I will agree that not all Mormons live up to the standards the LDS church teaches and if this is true and he does live on church property and elicites such behavior, you should report him immediately to LDS church authorities or pm me his name and where he lives and I will do it.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/18/2006 6:34:23 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
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quote:
Mormonism claims that there is an infinite line of Gods, and that we can become a God also. This is not only contradictory to scripture, it is logically impossible!
Luke 1:37
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/18/2006 8:05:07 PM
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tony.nz
Posts: 357
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
quote:
Mormonism claims that there is an infinite line of Gods, and that we can become a God also. This is not only contradictory to scripture, it is logically impossible!
Luke 1:37
There is one thing that is impossible for God. And, that is that he should lie.
Isaiah 43:10.
Revelation 21:3
And, it is logically impossible. A little mathematical problem called "The Impossibility of traversing the Infinite".
However, Joseph Smith believes and follows his father, Isaiah 12:13-15.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/18/2006 10:53:18 PM
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harvesthoney
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tony.nz
However, Joseph Smith believes and follows his father, Isaiah 12:13-15.
The chapter 12 in the book of Isaiah in my KJV has only 6 verses. What bible are you using?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 12:25:36 AM
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tony.nz
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Sorry typo.
Make that Isaiah 14:13-15
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 9:49:05 AM
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harvesthoney
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Are you saying that JS believed and followed Lucifer?
If so, this is a dead topic. It has be hashed over and over and over again. If continued, other LDS will join in, then the thread will stopped by a moderator.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 4:44:48 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 760
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I just saw a 2 hour documentary on A&E (it might be on again) all about the Mormons and polygamy and how they are. It was appalling and amazing. They featured about 5 families, the father has sex with his 5 year old and 16 year old to teach them about being ready for their husband, they beat their wives and kids, the wives have no say so in any matter, in order to cope with jealousy the wives have to suppress their feelings, one wife saw her husband have sex with her "sister wife" right in front of her so that she "wouldn't feel bad about getting anything different"
They are all in a very bad place, they are in a cult, when they try to escape, they are threatened they will go to hell, and have to leave their 11 children behind, the kids (aged 10 and 8) were talking about how they want to have 3 wives just like daddy,
oh and since they inbreed, the kids come out with clubbed feet and no kneecap on this one child and they refuse to do corrective surgery "because thats the way God let them be born so its God's will they be handicapped" ... One father married his niece.
ITS NUTS OUT THERE!!
Ya know its all about one rather ugly man who wants to build up a kingdom (their words not mine),, its all about him getting sex with his choice of 4-8 women. One guy said he lives in a house with his 4 wives. how he handles satisfying them is he makes a schedule who he will have sex with that night, and then he goes from room to room having sex with each of these women.. What a life!!! and they justify all this by the Bible.
The government cant put them in prison coz they'd have to put half the state of Utah citizens in jail.
theres more but this is the major things I saw on this show.. I hope it will be on again.
_____________________________
I will extol Thee, my God, O King, and I will bless Thy name forever and ever. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and His greatness is unsearchable" (Psalm 145: 1 & 3)
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 9:58:52 PM
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tony.nz
Posts: 357
Joined: 7/6/2005
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IMA-C
You have to be fair, most Mormons are not like that. There are evil people in every population, and some of them use "religion" as a cloke for their activities. Many pedophiles, for example, have used the Catholic Church and other churches for this reason. So, we have to be careful about branding all Mormons because of the actions of a few, the majority would not accept their behaviour.
However, you have a point to a certain extent. Joseph Smith, I believe, used his status amongst his believers for immoral purposes. Mohammed, another false prophet, did the same. The result is that those (amongst them) who desire to do evil, have an 'excuse", in that they can point to the behaviour of their "prophet" and say that they are just doing the same thing. Fortunately, and to their credit, the majority follow their god-given consciences.
HH, I do not believe that JS consciously followed Satan. However, he followed satanically-inspired lies. Jesus described the pharisees as sons of satan for the same reason. I am not sure whether JS witnessed a manifestation of a lying evil spirit, or if he simply made up a complex web of lies to gather a following to satisfy his ego and for other purposes. We are commanded to test the spirits, and not to fear false prophets. Unfortunately, many who follow false teachers do not know how to do this. All is not lost however, the following is a group who did follow a false teacher, subsequently realised their error, and at the end appear to have shown they love truth more than lies. Praise God!
http://www.wcg.org
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 10:44:53 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
I just saw a 2 hour documentary on A&E (it might be on again) all about the Mormons and polygamy and how they are. It was appalling and amazing. They featured about 5 families, the father has sex with his 5 year old and 16 year old to teach them about being ready for their husband, they beat their wives and kids, the wives have no say so in any matter, in order to cope with jealousy the wives have to suppress their feelings, one wife saw her husband have sex with her "sister wife" right in front of her so that she "wouldn't feel bad about getting anything different"
They are all in a very bad place, they are in a cult, when they try to escape, they are threatened they will go to hell, and have to leave their 11 children behind, the kids (aged 10 and 8) were talking about how they want to have 3 wives just like daddy,
oh and since they inbreed, the kids come out with clubbed feet and no kneecap on this one child and they refuse to do corrective surgery "because thats the way God let them be born so its God's will they be handicapped" ... One father married his niece.
ITS NUTS OUT THERE!!
Ya know its all about one rather ugly man who wants to build up a kingdom (their words not mine),, its all about him getting sex with his choice of 4-8 women. One guy said he lives in a house with his 4 wives. how he handles satisfying them is he makes a schedule who he will have sex with that night, and then he goes from room to room having sex with each of these women.. What a life!!! and they justify all this by the Bible.
The government cant put them in prison coz they'd have to put half the state of Utah citizens in jail.
theres more but this is the major things I saw on this show.. I hope it will be on again.
I have seen the same documentary also. It was about the FLDS if you bothered to listen to everything. Maybe you should watch it again. It states that they are not a part of the LDS church in SLC and haven't been since the LDS church abolished polygamy in the 1890's. They are a radical sect unto themselves not part of the LDS church.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 11:04:52 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tony.nz
IMA-C
You have to be fair, most Mormons are not like that. There are evil people in every population, and some of them use "religion" as a cloke for their activities. Many pedophiles, for example, have used the Catholic Church and other churches for this reason. So, we have to be careful about branding all Mormons because of the actions of a few, the majority would not accept their behaviour.
However, you have a point to a certain extent. Joseph Smith, I believe, used his status amongst his believers for immoral purposes. Mohammed, another false prophet, did the same. The result is that those (amongst them) who desire to do evil, have an 'excuse", in that they can point to the behaviour of their "prophet" and say that they are just doing the same thing. Fortunately, and to their credit, the majority follow their god-given consciences.
HH, I do not believe that JS consciously followed Satan. However, he followed satanically-inspired lies. Jesus described the pharisees as sons of satan for the same reason. I am not sure whether JS witnessed a manifestation of a lying evil spirit, or if he simply made up a complex web of lies to gather a following to satisfy his ego and for other purposes. We are commanded to test the spirits, and not to fear false prophets. Unfortunately, many who follow false teachers do not know how to do this. All is not lost however, the following is a group who did follow a false teacher, subsequently realised their error, and at the end appear to have shown they love truth more than lies. Praise God!
http://www.wcg.org
Believe what you will about JS, I do not have a problem with it, many share your POV. However, there are many out there, such as myself, who believe otherwise. Unfortunately,due to TOS 16, the members of the LDS church cannot defend their religion fairly here. (BTW, I agree with TOS 16, it keeps this particular topic from getting way out of hand) I only respond to posts that misrepresent by faith, I do not and will not debate or argue over doctrine. It is what it is.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 11:23:54 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 760
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the documentary made it sound that way and even the politician in Utah (I cant remember his position, governor or whatever), said that theres too many to put in jail. They did show these 5 families, and the documentary made it sound like it was a huge problem. It seemed that at the end of the show, it made it sound as if it was a more huge problem than anyone perceives. And they did show several sects of the LDS, one was called "The True Church" (or the Living Church) or something to that affect that is not part of the mainstream LDS... please correct my facts as I didn't write them down, but I got the message of the program. The ex-wives were teling their tales about how bad it is.
the woman who heads up this program for people to buy clothes and be able to get on with their own life after leaving the cult/family they were in was saying this polygamy problem is happening all over the USA.
I would say that they were saying there is more of a problem with polygamy, more than with the Mormon church.. sorry if i offended anyone. I was writing with my memory of the show than with written down details.
_____________________________
I will extol Thee, my God, O King, and I will bless Thy name forever and ever. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and His greatness is unsearchable" (Psalm 145: 1 & 3)
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 11:44:50 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
the documentary made it sound that way and even the politician in Utah (I cant remember his position, governor or whatever), said that theres too many to put in jail. They did show these 5 families, and the documentary made it sound like it was a huge problem. It seemed that at the end of the show, it made it sound as if it was a more huge problem than anyone perceives. And they did show several sects of the LDS, one was called "The True Church" (or the Living Church) or something to that affect that is not part of the mainstream LDS... please correct my facts as I didn't write them down, but I got the message of the program. The ex-wives were teling their tales about how bad it is.
the woman who heads up this program for people to buy clothes and be able to get on with their own life after leaving the cult/family they were in was saying this polygamy problem is happening all over the USA.
I would say that they were saying there is more of a problem with polygamy, more than with the Mormon church.. sorry if i offended anyone. I was writing with my memory of the show than with written down details.
Yes, there is a huge problem in Utah, Arizona, and Canada. There are the Kingston clan, the Warren Jeffs clan, and others polygamist who are independant of these groups. I believe about 40 or so years ago the authorities tried to do something about them and it got all messed up....not Wako bad, but almost.
The organization that helps those that escape is called Tapestry, based in SLC. Warren Jeffs is on the FBI 10 Most Wanted list.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/19/2006 11:54:27 PM
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tony.nz
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Yeah, I think you have to discriminate between the problem of Polygamy, and the problem of Pedophilia and Incest.
Polygamy is probably a much bigger problem in Utah, because of the "spin offs" of LDS, who see themselves as preserving the true teachings of Joseph Smith. I am not aware of it as a current problem where I am, and I understand it is not now the teaching of LDS.
Pedophilia and Incest is a problem everywhere, and can not be laid at the door of Mormonism or JS. For those who choose this evil however, Polygamy no doubt is a practice that fits right in.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/20/2006 1:23:39 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tony.nz
Yeah, I think you have to discriminate between the problem of Polygamy, and the problem of Pedophilia and Incest.
Polygamy is probably a much bigger problem in Utah, because of the "spin offs" of LDS, who see themselves as preserving the true teachings of Joseph Smith. I am not aware of it as a current problem where I am, and I understand it is not now the teaching of LDS.
Pedophilia and Incest is a problem everywhere, and can not be laid at the door of Mormonism or JS. For those who choose this evil however, Polygamy no doubt is a practice that fits right in.
Another problem with at least the Jeffs clan is the "lost boys". These are the sons of the polygamists and competition for the older leaders who want the young girls for themselves. These teenaged boys are kicked out of the clan. It is so sad.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/20/2006 3:01:44 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11610
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quote:
Another problem with at least the Jeffs clan is the "lost boys". These are the sons of the polygamists and competition for the older leaders who want the young girls for themselves. These teenaged boys are kicked out of the clan. It is so sad.
Yes, that is terribly sad.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/20/2006 5:46:42 PM
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tony.nz
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I don't want to be flippant about where we have gone. It is a social tragedy for the people involved.
Can we get back to this "Anything is possible with God" thing?
I think it is perverse to interpret that in a way that has God doing things that are logically impossible. For instance, some have asked "if God can do anything, can He then make a rock that is to heavy for Him to lift?". The answer is, no He cannot. If God is all truth, and if He then tells us something is true, He will not and can not subsequently tell us something that contradicts that fact.
Judaistic apologists for example, state that they have this against the claims for Christ, that He changed their laws. I think that is one of their stronger points, however, I think they miss the point that Jesus gave them a new way of interpreting the scriptures(as opposed to overthrowing them), and some of the instructions for the Hebrews were for them specifically and perhaps for a specific period of time.
However, it is a different issue when God reveals "facts" about Himself, or in regard to our eternal relationship with Him. We can only know of God that which He reveals. The Jews have a scriptural declaration "Hear O Israel, the LORD iour God, the LORD is one". (Deut 6:4). The word one is used in the sense of alone. The Hebrew word for one is "Ehad"-Strongs 259. This is a plural oneness, the same word is used for a husband and wife being described as "one", or waters coming together in "one" place. If however, the scripture used the alternative word "yachad", which would focus on the simple singularity, I would have great difficulty reconciling this with the Trinity.
So when a true prophet reveals a "fact" about God, any prophet who subsequenly reveals a contradictory "fact", is logically a false prophet. Joseph Smith falls into this category.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/20/2006 6:14:48 PM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
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How about this--- I will not question your faith or even make you prove anything. I will take you on your word alone that you are a true believer in the Word. Now, all I ask is for you to allow me the same courtesy.
This topic has been done to death, lets let it "rest in peace" and move on.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/20/2006 11:25:13 PM
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tony.nz
Posts: 357
Joined: 7/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
How about this--- I will not question your faith or even make you prove anything. I will take you on your word alone that you are a true believer in the Word. Now, all I ask is for you to allow me the same courtesy.
This topic has been done to death, lets let it "rest in peace" and move on.
Don't question your faith or your sincerity, just believe it is misplaced. I must have missed the previous discussions, but I will continue to respond to this topic as I feel appropriate.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/20/2006 11:54:25 PM
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SmileyTish
Posts: 186
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From: From the Edge of Beyond
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harvesthoney,
I have talked to Mormons before. They can be some of the nicest people. I went to a Christian College with one. When faced with Biblical Christianity, she was unable to argue against it. Same thing with other Mormons that I have talked to. When they are faced with The Bible and The Bible alone as their source for knowledge of God, then they are left without a leg to stand on Theologically. Point blank, who does the Book of Mormon seek to glorify -- that is my only question...
_____________________________
I'm going crazy -- wanna come along?
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/21/2006 9:37:40 AM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tony.nz
quote:
ORIGINAL: harvesthoney
How about this--- I will not question your faith or even make you prove anything. I will take you on your word alone that you are a true believer in the Word. Now, all I ask is for you to allow me the same courtesy.
This topic has been done to death, lets let it "rest in peace" and move on.
Don't question your faith or your sincerity, just believe it is misplaced. I must have missed the previous discussions, but I will continue to respond to this topic as I feel appropriate.
Fine, I accept you believe may faith is misplaced...
Stay in the Church topic...go to display last 90 days.....look for The LDS Church thread last post was 7/6/06. It went on for 12 pages before it was stopped.
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/21/2006 10:02:27 AM
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harvesthoney
Posts: 247
Joined: 9/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SmileyTish
Point blank, who does the Book of Mormon seek to glorify -- that is my only question...
God
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/21/2006 6:12:55 PM
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stratt
Posts: 86
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THE MORMONS ARE COMING THE MORMONS ARE COMING!
I had the mormons come to my home, they gave me a free bible and a book of mormon.
I asked them to come back after i had read the book of mormon and we could talk later....i had sooooooo many questions for them!
I wondered why they didnt give me there book called the doctines and the covenants.... probably because it was too crazy for conversion situation.....
Basically I asked them a ton of questons .... they couldnt answer.... they came back 4 times.... never answered any of my questions... then a new guy came with them..... he was very forceful... but i said we were separated because they believed in salvation by works... i believed in salvation by grace.....
They believe something very different from those who dont believe their prophet joseph smith.... plus... when they come to your door... they dont come talkin about jesus.. they come talking about joseph smith.... which is not very good if they want to spread the news of jesus.....
One of there very strangest beliefs.. is that jesus... went to america... to preach to the jews who (they claim) left Isreal and came to america thousands of years ago.... they also believe jesus is satans brother.... which is perverse.
They believe all other denominations of chrsitanity are completely wrong... only their sect is correct..... they believe marriage is forever...even in heaven.... when the bible claims the exact opposite.... they are really lost.
there funniest belief i thought was that joseph smith came to "restore" the church...meaning they think that he came so that there would be no more sects... only the one church of mormon..... but the church of mormon curently has 2 branchs... because there was division... even amongst the mormons...... so really smith just created 2 more sects of christianity........doesnt sound like "restoration".....
I dont have a website about them though.... sorry....
http://www.myspace.com/stratt
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RE: Mormonism? - 8/21/2006 6:26:54 PM
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landabee
Posts: 3175
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Central Florida
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~sigh~
I see that it is time for the mormon defense league to make it's appearance again.
To those who are considering witnessing: Be diligent and vigilant in your prayer life. Feed on the Holy Word of God daily.
Pray for discernment and protection.
Yes, it is that serious.
This false religion is a lie straight from the pit of hell. It is taking some of the kindest, well meaning and faithful (albeit misplaced faith) people straight to their eternal damnation.
There is no use debating with the mormons on this board. They have no desire to accept the truth (as far as has been demonstrated in the myriad threads preceding this one)
Pray for them. Pray for their families. And pray against the insiduous evil masquerading as truth that leads them to call themselves Christians. They (mormons) are reaping the harvest of souls that belong to the true Jesus.
We must pray against, gird against and evangelize against this lie.
_____________________________
"God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts."~Unknown
"Sound theology discourages ignorance instead of promoting it. " ~ CourdeLeon
Love On A Plate
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