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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 12:46:25 PM
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McFatty
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I might show a bit of laziness by not wanting to sift through a hundred sixty pages for my answer, but I was wondering what the interpretation of Galatians 5:18 was from people who believe we must keep the law? Not trying to start a fight, just wondering what the interpretation was.
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law." - Gal 5:18
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 1:20:07 PM
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Lapidoth
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From the Power New Testament:
Galatians 5:18
"But if you are led by the Spirit,
you are not under the law of the flesh."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 1:22:21 PM
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McFatty
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Yes, but we're going different translations here.
The New Living Translation I have by my bed reads:
"But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses."
However, if that's your take on that verse, that's fine. I just wanted to know.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 1:41:40 PM
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bob97
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Hummm....don't they say the same thing? We are under the law of the spirit, not the law of the flesh written in stone.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 1:42:56 PM
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McFatty
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Nice way of putting it, bob. I'd still like to hear some takes on this verse from those who believe we ought to keep the law.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 2:00:07 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
Nice way of putting it, bob. I'd still like to hear some takes on this verse from those who believe we ought to keep the law.
LOL.
That's one reason I just posted the verse.
Because it will end in another "dog-chases-tail" argument.
We have to determine for ourselves what it means.
God says what he means,
and means what he says.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 2:14:50 PM
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LBolt
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I understand that verse to mean that we are not under the penalty for violating the Torah i.e by obeying man-made laws that were exalted over the written Word of Elohim. To walk in the Spirit is to walk in line with His Word. To be 'under the law' is to walk contrary to it's precepts and therefore place one under the curse. Now Messiah has saved us from the penalty of sin and death being made a curse for us.
I do not believe this is a verse telling us the Torah is invalid. "Under the law of the flesh" is violation of Elohim's teachings and instructions.
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 2:23:28 PM
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McFatty
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I agree that the argument will get nowhere. I was honestly just curious as to what the take of the "other side" might be.
I fully agree that we should determine for ourselves through study and figuring out whether our teachers exhibit the fruits what God is saying in a particular passage.
_____________________________
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 3:20:53 PM
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mcleod
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Say for some of you who use those hebrews words. Why don't you use every word in hebrew so we can tell are smart you really are.  Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but after awhile you seem to appear to be very high spiritual in your mind. That we who use a different words, in fact the english words are not on the same playing field. Which if you readed the books in the library you would see that a nation or city and people in general. Without even having a humbleness to fellow man kind has serious problems with AWAH.
Or missed what the fine print in the TORAH was all about.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 3:58:37 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
Hey, LGyp. Where'd you get those fancy dancing shoes?
(Yes, I left myself wide open for a comeback...go for it and let's have some fun! And a 'one, two, three, twist...one, two, three, twist'...
Greetings,
(Yes, I left myself wide open for a comeback)
Where? ....I haven't been reading them? 
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 4:55:30 PM
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SpongeBlog
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McFatty
I agree that the argument will get nowhere.
Don't believe it for a minute. There are people who come into this forum and don't know why we don't follow literal Torah anymore and wonder what they should do about it. I was one of those until God showed me it's all about character, not external worship techniques, beliefs, and procedures, no matter how required they used to be.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 4:59:50 PM
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Odeliya
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quote:
I was one of those
Yeap. Make it two of those.
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Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 5:05:39 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
I was one of those
Yeap. Make it two of those.
ROFL.
Guess I'm still a "loner."
none-of-the-above.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 5:12:27 PM
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Odeliya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Guess I'm still a "loner."
none-of-the-above.
 you always are, lovie, it's just your nature.
But you have a kindest heart an sincere desire to do the best for God and brethren. The rest are details...
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 5:43:22 PM
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Odeliya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Say for some of you who use those hebrews words. Why don't you use every word in hebrew so we can tell are smart you really are. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but after awhile you seem to appear to be very high spiritual in your mind.
oh,let the boychiki have fun. I believe that's an innocent shtick, it’s seem to be "IN" now.Hip thing to do in Messianic circles. I consider it cute and at times hilarious, esp in situations when something like "Adonai’s rules "get accidentally misspelled as "Adonis rules" (greek God, a very handsome metrosexual man).
Of course, it would be disrespectful to God to assume that he loves people less for calling Him in their native( engl,Chinese, etc) language, not Hebrew. Sure, most names in the bible are actually sound different in Hebrew, but who cares?
But let them do what they want. Lets not be like my dad:  "delia, why are you wearing ripped jeans? What’s with the sparkles on the phone? This is too short!." etc.. There is such a thing – STYLE. Let M brethren have theirs.
Which is , trust me beloved friends, an important thing, big pillar on which economy stands.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 9:17:35 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
Anyway, character is the only thing that won't solicit a debate, or divide the church into denominations and sects. Do you realize if the entire church dedicated itself to the principles of character as taught in the NT instead of on procedures and doctrines and beliefs that the cults would disappear, and we wouldn't have anything to argue about? Have you noticed we're not dividing over this matter of character? We're dividing over meaningless methods and procedures, and matters of theology that Paul says have no consequence to how we treat our fellow man (Col. 2). Is the Church as a whole ever going to wake up to these truths, or will the true church continue to the end as a kind of secret society (as someone in this forum suggests) interspersed among the multitude?
Greetings,
quote:
Do you realize if the entire church dedicated itself to the principles of character as taught in the NT instead of on procedures and doctrines and beliefs that the cults would disappear,
Greetings,
Principals of character are a world view…. and from the devil; and when it infects the interpretation of scriptures and by Whom it comes from….. This is what we get below… that an exclusion of an abomination from the priesthood is an affront to Christian beliefs because of a Vow.
Which is not even mentioned the NT but rather opposed… And this is Jesus character reference of the matter
John 5:14 - Show Context
Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you."
Here is a good example of legalism in the form of NT character, hot off the press!
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Business/Default.aspx?id=176224New Hampshire Bishop Gene Robinson has been embraced by sympathetic Anglicans in England and Scotland who view his exclusion as an affront to their Christian beliefs.
Robinson plans several appearances on the outskirts of the Lambeth Conference to be what he called a "constant and friendly" reminder of homosexuals in the church.
"I'm just not willing to let the bishops meet and pretend that we don't exist," Robinson said in an interview Sunday with The Associated Press before preaching at St. Mary's Church Putney. " "They’ve taken vows" .....to serve all the people in dioceses, not just certain ones."
Sounds like a legal approach to that which was not clearly defined...
I guess Obama is their man!
So let’s see what the fruits of character can provide
…here we have this homosexual who by the scriptures is an abomination to the word of God and is in open and admitted sin, although he is very friendly, character wise we should be accepting him because he believes that he is keeping in character of the NT and the teachings of Christ; by using a legal approach to that which was not clearly defined in a Vow…yet ignoring what is clearly defined as an abomination in the Bible …..LOL!!!
quote:
Is the Church as a whole ever going to wake up to these truths, or will the true church continue to the end as a kind of secret society (as someone in this forum suggests) interspersed among the multitude?
First of all the church can nothing without Christ and as far as waking up to these truths; God is quite capable of exposing them for what they are worth,
As Bible says …..we are to have the MIND of Christ FIRST…. by which all things come.
Romans 5:1-5
1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have* peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations,
knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, ( produces )…. character;….. and character, (produces)…..hope.
5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
(For the asking)
....
Now
.....not willing to make a big production out of that  …. the Bible says there are many who say they are the true church; and by that I believe your prayer that the cults would disappear by expressing character… has already been proven different above,
But…..Let’s take a quick peek….and see what the scripture has called a false prophet…. in short form…. and what the Lord wishes for us to be aware of ….
……Mentioned here in Re 3:9
those…… are..... Those who say they are Jews… and are not……. and in Christian circles that is referring to replacement theology... because Christian and Jews share… in the common wealth according to
Romans 14
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, “not only”….. to those who are of the law, .....“but”…. also to..... those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all
...So by the examples above, this righteous requirement .....that is misconceived by some as NT character, is nothing more than legalism.
As we see this acting ordained homosexual who calls himself such by going beyond that grafting and using NT character as a witness; ...yet himself does not keep the spirit of the law… and these are mentioned as such in Rev 3:9…
……Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan; (…and in like manner….
a synagogue is where one goes to receives truth and has fellowship…therefore in like manner “God”…. will let THEM “believe””… the lie,…but in reality in they are not the ordained of God ....they are the “disdained”; and will produce fellowship after its own kind!)
Rev 3:9…....Behold, I will make them ( the synagogue of Satan) ...to come and worship before thy feet,
and to know that “I”… have loved thee. = (the Jews)
....Now….What that means.....Have you heard the old saying. It is not good to fool Mother Nature?
Well it is even worse to despise the grafting into the common wealth of Israel whereby salvation comes...and not keep the Spirit of the law!!! Therefore it will be required of them to come and worship before thy feet and to know that “I”… have loved thee.
quote:
(Yes, I left myself wide open for a comeback...go for it and let's have some fun! And a 'one, two, three, twist...one, two, three, twist'...
What comeback? ….you’re the one who raised up the HS in the law thread, so by that alone I have asked before if you would be kind enough to present a living example (witness) that the fulfillment of the feasts are not required in a believer, in which one of the fulfillments is being born again,
Otherwise one would be supporting other ways of salvation
....But I thought I already gave a brief example concerning the Passover and the feast of unleavened bread? ….As the spiritual example in the flesh; to what occurs in one who is born again spiritually,
So as to spark Witness between the 2 simply based on your constant referencing of the HS.
So it should be no problem for the HS showing that relationship (witness) as a reference point to whether or not one is born again, and is therefore long longer required….which is not even mentioned as such in the scriptures in Luke 16 Otherwise one would be supporting other ways of salvation which are not associated by witness to the feasts, which is what the scriptures show us...
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.'
29 Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' 30 And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.'
31 But he said to him, 'If they do not “hear” (the witness in the OT of) Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' “(Jesus Christ)
So….if you really wish to have some fun…. being that I already gave that one away.
Perhaps you could give us an example of one of the other 2 feasts that were fulfilled in us so as to recognize them in ourselves as the witness …??
However I am not short on having fun…and since we have not yet seen a witness presented which is more compliant in a thread of Law… (This is what is to be expected when the OT is tossed to the wayside)
I’ll have a great time regardless, finding such truths for me…based on my own witness of it 
Now back to whichever seems to fit your seemingly secular understanding of NT character actors …
...which lie would you wish to discuss next…'One, two, or three… or ….or should we expect another?
….which without doubt will be based according to what the word has just revealed above….
But when you do; please provide scripture… so at least we can keep from coming to the wrong conclusions…by weighing it against what was already written for our instruction.
Loyal Gypsy
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 9:23:41 PM
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SpongeBlog
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
(greek God, a very handsome metrosexual man).
First I find out I should've been keeping the laws of worship in the OT instead of Catholic tradition. Now I find out being a very handsome metrosexual man makes me look like a greek god. Odeliya, I can't win! Please tell me it's okay to look like a greek god so I won't be completely overcome with grief and despair! O wretched man that I am!
quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
..."delia, why are you wearing ripped jeans? What’s with the sparkles on the phone? This is too short!." etc.. There is such a thing – STYLE. Let M brethren have theirs.
Even though we agree completely on this whole law issue you seem to get more respect than I do, Odeliya. Do you think if I ripped my jeans in all the right places they'd respect me more? What if I put sparkles on my keyboard?
Oh, by the way, what is the correct Hebrew pronunciation for Fosgate?
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 9:56:36 PM
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SpongeBlog
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I was afraid some from the Messianic camp would misunderstand and think I was calling them a cult.
I DID NOT INTEND TO EVEN SUGGEST THAT MESSIANICS ARE A CULT!!! YES, I'M YELLING IN TEXT LINGO TO GET MY POINT SEEN BY SOME WHO SAY THEY STOPPED READING MY POSTS. MESSIANICS ARE NOT A CULT!!!!!
If you go back and read the post you'll see a comma was purposely placed in the sentence to distinguish between all of us here and the cults. With the cults gone and the only matter left to discuss among us truly born again people being character we might actually not have to divide ourselves in the ungodly manner that we have.
I'm ending the post here so it stands clear to all (including the ones who don't read my posts anmore).
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 10:35:12 PM
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SpongeBlog
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LGyp,
As for the rest of your post...
I'll forward the part about the homosexual priest who has no self-control to his parish. (You may want to read up on Galatians 5 to refresh your memory about what constitutes godly character).
I see you are doing the cha-cha with the passages about people who say they are Jews but are not. I have nothing to say to such a far out convoluted view of that passage (You are aware that I do not subscribe to replacement theology as you understand it anyway, aren't you?)
quote:
It is not good to fool Mother Nature?
I see you are older than what I thought.
The comback you missed was in reference to you putting on dancing shoes. Here are some possible combacks to my question of where you got them from...
A. Your mama
B. Your daddy
C. Odeliya (cause her dad won't let her wear them)
D. You ('cause your so good at dancing around the truth, too. Get it? ...Chortle, chortle...)
Pick one and get back to me. Or start a thread in the community folder asking for some good comebacks to slam me with (Remember, I said let's have some fun with it).
Can you tell I didn't include the periods when I italicized chortle? Is it obvious?.
And lastly (whew!)...the issue with the Holy Spirit is between you and Odie, though it does interest me and I'll chime in if I have a few good dance steps to show you. 'Put on your dancing shoes...' Wasn't that in a popular 80's song? Or am I too young (and handsome) to know what song it was and when it was popular? Maybe I Should be asking Major Tom instead...?
Oh, just curious. Why do you abbreviate Holy Spirit, while being careful to call the Lord by His correct Hebrew name? That's been bugging me for awhile now.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2008 11:28:22 PM
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bob97
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So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses. When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. (Gal 5:16 -21) NLT
The whole statement is telling me that under the law we are still sinners with no choice but to continue to sin, but under the Spirit we are free of the letter of the law and free of the sin associated with it because the law of Christ is written in our heart.
Forgive me if I'm a little slow...looks like the conversation has passed me by.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/15/2008 9:44:32 AM
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SpongeBlog
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...continued
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
So, why was obedience important then and not now?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
For those under the law you could not expect to be 'saved' if you do not submit to circumcision of the penis.
If what this says is true, then salvation was not by grace through faith alone, but circumcision was also required. So, which is it. Were the Patriarchs saved by grace or by keeping the law?
This is the famous Paul vs. James argument. Obedience is how we justify ourselves, showing ourselves to have been made righteous. Obedience is not how we become righteous, but righteousness is proved by our actions As New Testament believers, we have a similar but clearly different obligation as to how we are to show ourselves as having been made righteous. And that new way is in accordance with the level of revelation that we now have that the Patriarchs did not have then.
For example, we now know literal circumcision is not necessary to prove you believe God. New Testament revelation teaches us that is an inferior and potentially deceitful way of measuring, or proving one's right standing with God. It was illustrative of a better measure, but still required nevertheless for those under the old covenant. The unveiled message of the NT is we show ourselves to have been made righteous by walking in the fruit of the Spirit, particularly love. 'Do people pick figs from a thorn bush?'
Under the old covenant, righteousness was seen in the observance of stringent codes of outward worship. And as the old testament itself testifies (Jeremiah 7 especially) that was a very deceitful measure of one's right standing with God. It was true then, it is true today. The true measure of righteousness was not easily seen in the law, though the prophets spoke of it. Only with Christ and the revelation He and the apostles brought do we see clearly what really matters, often to the exclusion altogeher of what doesn't matter. That's why it's so important to come out of the old covenant and into the new. It's the only way to truly please God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
It was not fulfilled for them until Christ died and rose again. They only had the promise. We live in the reality of the resurrection. It happened less than 2000 years ago, not before creation. It was in the mind of God before creation. It was not fulfilled until Christ appeared on earth.
This is your contention. It has not been proven, in this discussion, that Adonai did not impart salvation based on His foreknowledge. Paul says;
Ro 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Ro 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Eph 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
Eph 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will
Where in the Scriptures does it say otherwise?
I'd rather not get into a predestination discussion. I personally find it mostly fruitless and meaningless because it really doesn't change how we live today. It's just one of those curious theological discussions to me. It might be an underpinning that helps someone develop their overall theology, but doesn't directly affect what you do today.
I will tell you, I think predestination simply means you are predestined to perish if you don't believe, and you are predestined to live and thrive as a son of God if you do believe. And obviously God has known exactly who would believe and who wouldn't since before creation. He doesn't seem to let that get in the way too much with how he deals with us. Perhaps I'm wrong, but for me it won't change the way I live and relate to either God or the world since that information is privy to Him alone. Anyway, I'd rather not pursue this. The question of lawkeeping directly affects how we live today. Predestination does not.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
...Micah tells us (Mic 6:8) "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." If you wish to know why I believe Adonai wishes one to follow Ha Torah, this is why.
But the promblem is too many people think this automatically equates for us today to keeping the old covenant laws of worship. There's just so much other information in the New Testament that shows us this just isn't true. For the Messianic everything gets translated as 'law', instead of 'Jesus'. And the focus is on worship techniques, not daily living. Even 'Jesus' is automatically and instantly translated as 'law' in the mind of most Messianics. The NT shows us the inferiority of the law compared to the Spirit (even 'Spirit' gets instantly translated as 'law' in the mind of most Messianics), yet the focus always gets placed on external worship laws instead of on how we are to treat people like Jesus treated people.
Just because we are indeed required to uphold old covenant laws of justice and mercy today doesn't mean we are automatically bound to every other law of the old covenant. That is such a narrow and simplistic argument that ignores so much that has been made plain to us today in the revelation of the new covenant. And defies the evidence to the contrary that exists all around us (and I'm not talking about what the Catholics have done).
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"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/15/2008 9:52:51 AM
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mcleod
Posts: 1068
Joined: 4/4/2006
Status: offline
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Odeliya, when you mention your Dad and guess what I did the same thing to my daughter. Though she didn't do a lot of make-up like her mother. Which meant she didn't leave anything on the phone. She had a object put on her body in which I had a hard time to accept. 
Which my Dad didn't get on my case about make up , but my mother would get on my case.(just kidding) The great cry I heard as growing up and even today is when are you getting a hair cut.
Loyal,
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So let’s see what the fruits of character can provide
…here we have this homosexual who by the scriptures is an abomination to the word of God and is in open and admitted sin, although he is very friendly, character wise we should be accepting him because he believes that he is keeping in character of the NT and the teachings of Christ; by using a legal approach to that which was not clearly defined in a Vow…yet ignoring what is clearly defined as an abomination in the Bible …..LOL!!!
Did you forget something in this statement? Aren't you love the person yet hate the sin? So if you would show this person true love, then he would possible change his attitude. As one person in the seventies who my Dad was talking to for awhile. Who was a homosexual and he became a follower of the true God and quite his sin. Though he never had feelings to have a relationship with a woman. He did remain from comitting. The great crime that you seem to think it is. Just one more question to you are you Jerry incarnated?
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/15/2008 11:26:21 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
So I say, let the Holy Spirit guide your lives. Then you won't be doing what your sinful nature craves. The sinful nature wants to do evil, which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants. And the Spirit gives us desires that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires. These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions. But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses. When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God. (Gal 5:16 -21) NLT
The whole statement is telling me that under the law we are still sinners with no choice but to continue to sin, but under the Spirit we are free of the letter of the law and free of the sin associated with it because the law of Christ is written in our heart.
Forgive me if I'm a little slow...looks like the conversation has passed me by.
Bob
I think this version makes a pretty good point that I don't think needs argued or debated.
"When you are directed by the Spirit," you are not under the law.
The law is still there, but we're not guilty of it because we don't break it.
When we break it, we ARE under the law.
Those who "break" the law are "obligated" to the law.
Sometimes I use an experience I had on vacation when I got a speeding ticket
in the state of Kansas. I WAS speeding, I WAS caught {even if it was a speed trap, lol.}
I was obligated to the law. Could I cry, "But, I'm NOT under the law."
Since I was obligated to the law, I paid the ticket.
Once I paid the ticket, I was no longer under obligation
to the law. I FULFILLED the law. Does that mean I won't get another speeding ticket?
You bet your life. LOL.
But, that doesn't mean I am immune to breaking that law in the future.
I don't know how we can all stand back and look at it in the same frame of mind.
Are there rules and regulations in heaven? I have to assume so since the devil
got kicked out. Will there be rules and regulations in the New Kingdom? I still
have to assume so, other wise there will be no order.
Just because the law is written on our heart doesn't mean there is no more need
of the law. I still live by the law. When I break a law, I am obligated to it {under
the law}.
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 7/15/2008 11:43:43 AM >
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 7/15/2008 11:44:21 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2492
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Odeliya, when you mention your Dad and guess what I did the same thing to my daughter. Though she didn't do a lot of make-up like her mother. Which meant she didn't leave anything on the phone. She had a object put on her body in which I had a hard time to accept.
Which my Dad didn't get on my case about make up , but my mother would get on my case.(just kidding) The great cry I heard as growing up and even today is when are you getting a hair cut.
Loyal,
quote:
So let’s see what the fruits of character can provide
…here we have this homosexual who by the scriptures is an abomination to the word of God and is in open and admitted sin, although he is very friendly, character wise we should be accepting him because he believes that he is keeping in character of the NT and the teachings of Christ; by using a legal approach to that which was not clearly defined in a Vow…yet ignoring what is clearly defined as an abomination in the Bible …..LOL!!!
quote:
Did you forget something in this statement? Aren't you love the person yet hate the sin? So if you would show this person true love, then he would possible change his attitude. As one person in the seventies who my Dad was talking to for awhile. Who was a homosexual and he became a follower of the true God and quite his sin. Though he never had feelings to have a relationship with a woman. He did remain from comitting. The great crime that you seem to think it is. Just one more question to you are you Jerry incarnated?
Greetings,
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The great cry I heard as growing up and even today is when are you getting a hair cut.
Never!....that is out of the question and not in my vocabulary! LOL!!
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Did you forget something in this statement?
Not a thing!
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Aren't you love the person yet hate the sin? So if you would show this person true love, then he would possible change his attitude.
When we grow up in the truth and realize the other side of the story ....also taught by Jesus.. Then we soon discover that praying for Judas would be a total waste of time, because there are certain scriptures that are going to be fulfilled,
In reference to this ordained homosexual, one would think love was already shown by the ordainment, but the sister has a different agenda, which is to change the Church, not himself,
quote:
As one person in the | | |
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