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RE: "The Shack" - 11/12/2008 7:56:57 PM
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floydette
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It is interesting that in Asian theology, the Holy Spirit is the yin part of the trinity, which is more of the feminine aspect. So, for the author to use an Asian female for the Spirit of God is pretty interesting...
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“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/12/2008 8:40:21 PM
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Focusing
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Also from Wikipedia:
[edit] Etymology: The name is the feminine derivative of the Sanskrit root सर् sar "to flow"; as a masculine stem, saráyu- means "air, wind", i.e. "that which is streaming".
"Sarayu" is a character in The Shack (novel) by William P. Young ... In the novel Sarayu represents the Holy Spirit in Christian theology. The Greek word for spirit in the New Testament is "pneuma", which can also be translated "wind" or "breath". Hence the character's name "Sarayu", meaning "wind".
I was curious about the root of the name Sarayu. Sometimes I think a little more reading on the meaning of a word or name and where it comes from is good. I think sometimes we like to jump to conclusions about sinister psychological underlying meanings ......... which in reality might not be the case at all.
For all we know, the author heard the name "Sarayu" and thought it was beautiful and rolled off his tongue and thought it would be a good name to use in his book for the description of the Holy Spirit. So, maybe that's the whole "purpose" of choosing this name. Just because it sounds really neat.
_____________________________
Instead of a gem, or even a flower, we should cast the gift of a loving thought into the heart of a friend. That would be giving as the angels give.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/14/2008 9:17:44 PM
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heavencomedown
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I think that it is a fun and intriguing read for "established" (for lack of a better word that i cany think of now) but for a new believer it might not be something they could read and still understand what the Trinity is. O liked it and wil be reading it again.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/18/2008 3:43:10 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
ORIGINAL: heavencomedown
I think that it is a fun and intriguing read for "established" (for lack of a better word that i cany think of now) but for a new believer it might not be something they could read and still understand what the Trinity is. O liked it and wil be reading it again.
I said the same thing at first---that it would be best for the mature. But I am reconsidering. I'm in a book group and thinking of suggesting it. We've had some good discussions and this book would focus the discussion on Jesus. I'm not sure if any of the other members of the group know Him.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/18/2008 7:11:36 PM
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reesa-
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This book was highly recomended to me. I have not yet finished it yet I am enjoying it. I had a hard time with the idea of God being a black woman at first but when I read a bit further it explained why God appear to Mac this way.
Earlier in the book it also mentions about another preconceived notion that Mack had about music when he walked into the kitchen and found "Papa" listening to a song called West Coast Juice by a group called Diatribe. Mack responds more then a little incredulous that it doesn't sound very religious.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/18/2008 10:04:16 PM
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heavencomedown
Posts: 65
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I think it wouls be good for a book group as long as they didnt try to read into it too much and take everything literally. It could be confusing to some ppl. I liked the book myself, it gave me some new ideas on how God might make himself known in different sutuations. The Asian and African American figures didnt really bother me, they represent a characatar of God.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/21/2008 10:00:09 PM
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jn1010lf
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Hello designed
I read The Shack and was utterly fascinated by it. It seems to me that the author described the Father, Son and Holy Spirit quite aptly.
The appearance of the Father as a black woman caught me, at first but then ther reason give was interesting. The Father did, you know, eventually appear as a Father.
I can see how many would be frightened by this book. It requires Bible knowledge as well as the ability to imagine. Stone hard fundamentalists would have a fit of it because of doctrinal challenges.
This book does point out that our God is alive and will deal with any person on an individual basis as needs to be done. Oh, the wisdom of our God? He is the epitiome of being uncanny in His wisdom and ways!
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/24/2008 6:36:52 PM
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csl7037
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Wow, guys. Once again, one of my well-meaning but not quite discerning friends recommended something to me and I come to CW only to find another side. We have to be careful and just from what you guys have pointed out here I think the theology of this book sounds suspect enough to me to pass. Thanks!
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 12:40:48 AM
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SavedToo
Posts: 77
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Mal 3:6
"For I am the Lord, I do not change …
This apparently isn’t the god of the Shack. First God appears as a woman and then as a man. Talk about gender disorientation. Give me a break.
God knows how to relate to others as Himself. In John 4, we read how Jesus the Jew was able to relate to the Samaritan woman:
A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, "Give Me a drink." For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. Then the woman of Samaria said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask a drink from me, a Samaritan woman?" For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.
To say that God has to change genders in order to be able to deal with someone is absurd and limits his omniscience.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 10:11:18 AM
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thedivabrat
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I read The Shack and enjoyed it. It was fiction so I did not look on it as anything theological and I guess have a hard time with people who do. After all do you read other fiction or fantasy or science fiction or even some biographies? I mean every thing is not written to give the gospel message--can you not just read a book for enjoyment-just read for the fun of it? This is just my opinion and do not want to offend anyone. I am not posting this in a judgemental way cause I do know we all are in different places on the journey need to be discerning in our choice of reading material as in all things.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 10:53:17 AM
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HisFish
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If you are going to write fiction with God as the center piece you have to handle it with care and reverence. God is not a subject that you can play with as you wish, He is a being wholly different and distinct from from all things and is not open to reinterpretation or retelling. You cannot divorce theology from anything having to do with Him. Look at what some (probably many) are taking from this book.
quote:
Gatlianne, July 31, 2008 (view all comments by Gatlianne)
I received "The Shack" on Monday, began reading on Tuesday and finished it on Wednesday. I made notes throughout the book and tried to keep reading though my sleepy eyes told me no more Tuesday night.
The book is compelling ... compelling enough that I feel I must read it again before I can write a review that can even begin to touch how the book affected me.
But, affect me - it did.
My Auntie & her best friend told me to read this book ... Auntie described it as "The Bible for the 21st Centry"
That could very well be a true statement.
It is a novel, a story - but one of much depth.
It is touching, compelling, heartwrenching, heartfilling and enlightening.
I will be posting a full review after reading it again in a couple of weeks - I plan to let the first reading settle in before I begin again, but I will leave you with one of the most profound statements from the book:
True Love Never Forces
Source:http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780964729230
< Message edited by HisFish -- 11/30/2008 11:00:27 AM >
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 11:04:42 AM
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stellaluna
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thedivabrat
I read The Shack and enjoyed it. It was fiction so I did not look on it as anything theological and I guess have a hard time with people who do. After all do you read other fiction or fantasy or science fiction or even some biographies? I mean every thing is not written to give the gospel message--can you not just read a book for enjoyment-just read for the fun of it? This is just my opinion and do not want to offend anyone. I am not posting this in a judgemental way cause I do know we all are in different places on the journey need to be discerning in our choice of reading material as in all things.
It appears many people cannot simply consider The Shack fiction, much less fantasy.
I am keeping track of people I know IRL who say they've never understood God/Jesus/trinity before. I'm now up to six. All six of these people are Christian.
Further, I sat last month in a room full of homosexuals who had all passed the book around and were lamenting the fact that their Christian friends and family members have it all wrong about them--they are taking the bible too literally and they wished they would read The Shack. (I'm not making this stuff up, people.)
So many people were passing it around at a friend's church that the pastor addressed it from the pulpit and said to stop--if they want to know about God, read the bible.
My boss, who is not Christian, introduced the author at a fundraising event and after hearing him speak, called him a "pig" and said she couldn't understand why people kept recommending the book to her. She also said the entire audience listened to him in rapt silence and she wanted to scream, "Are you blind?!!" (That was an interesting conversation.  )
I have read many many comments like the ones HisFish posted from Christians on line that are nothing but gushing reviews of The Shack, which remains--as you pointed out--a completely fictional book.
(Edited to add, I've never heard anyone say they finally understand the trinity after reading any piece of fiction.)
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 1:04:00 PM
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thedivabrat
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I don't know I must live in a bubble--my Christian friends who have read this feel the way I do--it was an easy read for enjoyment. We have talked about it and played the what if game but bottom line we agree it is fiction and not serious theology. My friends who are not believers don't seem to be interested in reading it and those that have didn't think much of it one way or another. A couple of them said they were trying to read it but really couldn't get into it. It has opened up some conversations with those not of the faith that have been interesting. I have tried to be clear with them that it is a work of fiction and not to be taken literally--I think they agree with me.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 2:11:31 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2060
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I'm with HisFish and Stellaluna - why do we insist on flirting with such nonsense? Thedivabrat, I don't think you live in a bubble, I think you're just like me - surrounded by Christians with absolutely no discernment! My friends that recommended this book are also the same friends who got all wrapped up in the Todd Bentley nonsense (we live an hour from Lakeland).
"The Bible for the 21st Century" - I'm surprised he's not been on Oprah yet! We need to think, people! This stuff is very frustrating to me. Christians are just lapping up the world's counterfeit "spirituality" - anything spiritual is not of God.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 2:39:40 PM
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JP67
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I picked this book up this weekend.
"bible of the 21st Century" Don't you think the BIBLE should be the Bible of the 21st Century?? I get very concerned with Christians start reading other things - fiction for example - and want to turn it into the Truth rather than reading the Truth (ie - the Bible!) and keeping it at the top where it belongs.
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RE: "The Shack" - 11/30/2008 2:46:53 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 1130
Joined: 3/19/2008
From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: thedivabrat
I don't know I must live in a bubble--my Christian friends who have read this feel the way I do--it was an easy read for enjoyment. We have talked about it and played the what if game but bottom line we agree it is fiction and not serious theology. My friends who are not believers don't seem to be interested in reading it and those that have didn't think much of it one way or another. A couple of them said they were trying to read it but really couldn't get into it. It has opened up some conversations with those not of the faith that have been interesting. I have tried to be clear with them that it is a work of fiction and not to be taken literally--I think they agree with me.
Like I just posted in another thread..
The theology of Christian-themed books that acheive mainstream success is extremely important. Some less discerning people who don't read the Bible or solid theology books will take books like 'The Shack' as gospel truth. So unless you don't care how God is presented to the world, even thought it is fiction, the theology is extremely important.
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 12:00:52 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2072
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
If you are going to write fiction with God as the center piece you have to handle it with care and reverence. God is not a subject that you can play with as you wish, He is a being wholly different and distinct from from all things and is not open to reinterpretation or retelling. You cannot divorce theology from anything having to do with Him. Look at what some (probably many) are taking from this book.
quote:
Gatlianne, July 31, 2008 (view all comments by Gatlianne)
I received "The Shack" on Monday, began reading on Tuesday and finished it on Wednesday. I made notes throughout the book and tried to keep reading though my sleepy eyes told me no more Tuesday night.
The book is compelling ... compelling enough that I feel I must read it again before I can write a review that can even begin to touch how the book affected me.
But, affect me - it did.
My Auntie & her best friend told me to read this book ... Auntie described it as "The Bible for the 21st Centry"
That could very well be a true statement.
It is a novel, a story - but one of much depth.
It is touching, compelling, heartwrenching, heartfilling and enlightening.
I will be posting a full review after reading it again in a couple of weeks - I plan to let the first reading settle in before I begin again, but I will leave you with one of the most profound statements from the book:
True Love Never Forces
Source:http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780964729230
I don't understand what troubles you based on these comments you have included?
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 12:20:12 AM
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HisFish
Posts: 686
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
If you are going to write fiction with God as the center piece you have to handle it with care and reverence. God is not a subject that you can play with as you wish, He is a being wholly different and distinct from from all things and is not open to reinterpretation or retelling. You cannot divorce theology from anything having to do with Him. Look at what some (probably many) are taking from this book.
quote:
Gatlianne, July 31, 2008 (view all comments by Gatlianne)
I received "The Shack" on Monday, began reading on Tuesday and finished it on Wednesday. I made notes throughout the book and tried to keep reading though my sleepy eyes told me no more Tuesday night.
The book is compelling ... compelling enough that I feel I must read it again before I can write a review that can even begin to touch how the book affected me.
But, affect me - it did.
My Auntie & her best friend told me to read this book ... Auntie described it as "The Bible for the 21st Centry"
That could very well be a true statement.
It is a novel, a story - but one of much depth.
It is touching, compelling, heartwrenching, heartfilling and enlightening.
I will be posting a full review after reading it again in a couple of weeks - I plan to let the first reading settle in before I begin again, but I will leave you with one of the most profound statements from the book:
True Love Never Forces
Source:http://www.powells.com/biblio/9780964729230
I don't understand what troubles you based on these comments you have included?
You see nothing wrong with the part of the quote i put in red?. How bizarre.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 6:10:10 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2060
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HisFish
You see nothing wrong with the part of the quote i put in red?. How bizarre.
Exactly. Even if there's nothing out of line in the book. Even if, if we all just read it in the right context it would be a blessing...people wont read it in the right context. If there are literary reasons or literary value to some of the bizarre things there, if Christians were all discerning enough to understand it...non-believers still wouldn't have the right frame of reference (and very few Christians would be that discerning anyway either) - so it's going to be problematic. It's going to confuse people AT LEAST! The comment about it being the "Bible for the 21st century" either proves that people are out of control STUPID or that this book contains some very scarey concepts...either way...!
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 11:06:19 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4407
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And from a literary standpoint, it's quite poorly written. It would be nice to see so many people get this excited over the actual bible, or a piece of really well-written fiction.
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 12:47:28 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2072
Status: offline
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quote:
HisFish
You see nothing wrong with the part of the quote i put in red?. How bizarre.
Well, I guess it depends upon perspective. Are you looking at the words on a page? Or are you looking at the hearts behind the words?
I hear a number of people who are seeking. They are seeking to know God. Or they know Him and are seeking to know Him more.
What would Jesus' perspective be? Would He look at words on a page? Would He be criticizing someone's choice of words?
Or would Jesus be looking at hearts? Hearts that are longing for, looking for a Savior?
What do you think?
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 1:49:42 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 686
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
HisFish
You see nothing wrong with the part of the quote i put in red?. How bizarre.
Well, I guess it depends upon perspective. Are you looking at the words on a page? Or are you looking at the hearts behind the words?
I hear a number of people who are seeking. They are seeking to know God. Or they know Him and are seeking to know Him more.
What would Jesus' perspective be? Would He look at words on a page? Would He be criticizing someone's choice of words?
Or would Jesus be looking at hearts? Hearts that are longing for, looking for a Savior?
What do you think?
So then your agreeing that "The Shack" could be the bible of the 21st century?.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 6:11:19 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2060
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
HisFish
You see nothing wrong with the part of the quote i put in red?. How bizarre.
Well, I guess it depends upon perspective. Are you looking at the words on a page? Or are you looking at the hearts behind the words?
I hear a number of people who are seeking. They are seeking to know God. Or they know Him and are seeking to know Him more.
What would Jesus' perspective be? Would He look at words on a page? Would He be criticizing someone's choice of words?
Or would Jesus be looking at hearts? Hearts that are longing for, looking for a Savior?
What do you think?
Ugh!! Doesn't that just make it more important that where they're looking they see the REAL Jesus not some bizarre mix of mysticism, New Age, and enough Christianity to make it sound nice? We've just got to wise up and see through the deceipt and counterfeit. If we can't get Christians to open their eyes, the world is doomed.
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RE: "The Shack" - 12/2/2008 7:11:25 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2072
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Stellaluna - Before we know the 'real' God as you say, there is this hungering, this yearning for truth. God meets us where we are. If we are sincere in our seeking, He will be found.
I am not saying the person did not mean what they said. But I am saying that perhaps we are making more of the words than we should. Perhaps this person is excited about something and speaks without thinking of all the ways someone else can interpret or misunderstand. What a burden it is to always be watching our words, thinking someone is going to catch us in something. I've spoken many things in my 54 years that, if taken out of context, or misunderstood by others could be equally disturbing. Haven't you? Anyway, that's what I'm saying.
HisFish - I would not say The Shack could be the Bible of the 21st century. But God as presented by William Young in The Shack is in many ways very much like the God I know and love. God is love. God is into relationship. Young has presented God that way. But man is into power. So many reject the God that Young has portrayed. The God of The Shack is way too threatening. Young confronts many of the idolatrous ways of man. I say amen.
csl7037 - I'm sorry you think 'ugh'. The God of The Shack is very much like the God I've come to know and love through His word.
Why don't we talk about specifics---not just general thoughts about the book? Give a specific quote from the book and then let's talk about that in relation to what scripture says.
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