RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Christian Doctrine



Message

SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 4:39:06 PM)

drmark,
quote:

Imputed righteousness ALONE will logically lead to antinomianism

Thank God that God does not only impute righteousness to our account, but imparts His life within us. A changed nature sees and delights in God and His holiness. A person in which the Holy Spirit resides, while he may sin, will have a remorse for personal sin and a desire to display God's character. There is no imputation without impartation of righteousness.

Just a side note: I don't think that Paul is saying there are three wills of God in Rom 12:2. I believe that Paul is using three words to describe God's will. God's will is all three - good, acceptable and perfect.

Blessings,
SH



A_crucified_man -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 5:44:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SureHope

drmark,
quote:

Imputed righteousness ALONE will logically lead to antinomianism

Thank God that God does not only impute righteousness to our account, but imparts His life within us. A changed nature sees and delights in God and His holiness. A person in which the Holy Spirit resides, while he may sin, will have a remorse for personal sin and a desire to display God's character. There is no imputation without impartation of righteousness.

Just a side note: I don't think that Paul is saying there are three wills of God in Rom 12:2. I believe that Paul is using three words to describe God's will. God's will is all three - good, acceptable and perfect.

Blessings,
SH


There are actually three distinct aspects to God's will.

Good is God's permissive will.
Acceptable is God's providential will.
Perfect is what it is, God's perfect will for our lives.



Heavendweller -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 7:43:24 PM)

Dr. Mark,

Thanks for starting this thread. I like the teachings that you have presented on imputed and imparted righteousness. Too often in evangelical circles, there is the assumption that salvation is a done deal upon a public profession of Christ. Such a distortion of the truth does not promote holy living but rather, an attitude of entitlement.

Impartation from what you have stated so far, would mean that one has to progress in their faith, which is lived out by submitting to the will of God, made possible by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Imputation is only part of the story. Thus, it is incumbent upon one to "work out their salvation with fear and trembling." Again, this can only be done by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Some Christians want to say that their children will always be their children, no matter what. Thus, when interpreted in the light of scripture, we can slap God in the face, commit sin cavalierly, and God will just smile and say how much He loves us. Well, we must look at this from God's point of view. The prodigal son asked for his inheritance and squandered it. Was this the end of the story? No, for when he saw his deplorable state he recongized where his sin had led him. He had to return to his father's house to be re-instated into his father's graces. For the writer of Hebrews makes this truth clear: "It is for discipline that you must endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons." Illegitimate children do not receive the reward. Those who accept God's discipline in their lives, display by their manner of living the imparted righteousness of Christ. And thus these are the true children of God who receive their reward, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Master."

I have a verse on our living room wall that reminds me of the necessity of living out the will of God. "But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and keep their souls." Hebrews 10:39 Just a few verses before this the writer of Hebrews says, "Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that you may do the will of God and receive what is promised." What is that promise? Enjoying eternal life in the presence of God forever. Thus, endurance is required in order to reach our final destination.

This imparted righteousness of which you speak, Dr. Mark, is necessary for all believers in Christ. The third chapter of Hebrews bears this truth out plainly. "Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, "Today when you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness...Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, "They always go astray in their hearts; they have not known my ways." As I swore in my wrath, They shall never enter my rest." These were Israelites, God's children, and yet His warning to them is severe, because they cast aside their inheritance.

And how does this apply to us as God's children today? Again from Hebrews ch. 3: "Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called today, that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we share in Christ, if only we hold our first confidence firm to the end."

So it is that we must learn from our forefathers' mistakes. We are required to live in the grace of God, by doing His will. We must fight the good fight of the faith regularly and put on the mind of Christ. To think one can relax and assume that its all been done for the Christian and we are going to slide into heaven, is a dangerous and slippery place to be.

HD



noitulover -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 8:28:55 PM)

The breach in the Old Testament is lack of faith. The Old Testament shadows that man would always fall short and is a testament of what Christ did is worth.
We don't have to worry about faith because it is a gift out of what Christ did and its increase is God's love to have it grow through dicipline. His dicipline. Not man's.

Our job is to believe and endure our God given faith filled with hope in God's promise of salvation.

Again, God's will is that we believe the son. After this is salvation because we are in God's will.
Our past, present, and future sins are forgiven. Saved sealed believers are in God's will at all times.

The Yo Yo gospel is a heresy saying sin abnegates salvation. The Yo Yo gospel spawns other heresies saying "Christ does not save me once. He saves me every day." Or other similar blasphemies.

Beware



noitulover -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 8:37:22 PM)

What we have here are believers holding up signs on the narrow path that say...

"Will Work for Food"

They force works and boast about their wise decisions.
The Good News is that manna is free. [8|]



Heavendweller -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 9:34:06 PM)

What is Christ's admonition to the churches?
To Ephesus:"To him who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the paradise of our God."
To Smyrna: "Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who conquers will not be hurt by the second death."
To Pergamum: "To him who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna."
To Thyatira: "And all the churches shall know that I am he who searches mind and heart, and I will give to each of you as your works deserve. He who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, I will give him power over the nations..."
To Sardis: "He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels."
To Philadelphia: "I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut; I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Because you have kept my word of patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial which is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell upon the earth.
Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. He who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God;"
To Laodicea: "I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will spew you out of my mouth. Those whom I love, I reprove and chasten; so be zealous and repent."

Let's see how God looks at the Bride of Christ. From Revelation 19:7 & 8:
"Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure - for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints."

"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy. Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." Revelation 22:11 & 12

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates." Revelation 22:14

HD



noitulover -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 10:14:05 PM)

quote:

Our job is to believe and endure our God given faith filled with hope in God's promise of salvation.


Keep the word of patient endurance.

If you conquer sin it is because you have faith and are saved by hope. Your righteousness does not come from your works.

If you are faithful, you have not flaunted garments worn by the harlot.

To Laodicea: "I know your works; you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold or hot, I will spew you out of my mouth. Those whom I love, I reprove and chasten; so be zealous and repent."

Again, works don't cut it. God is asking for fervent faith. Faith qualifies your works. Your heart qualifies your works. Ther was nothing wrong with Cain's offering. It was his heart that was evil.


it was granted her to be clothed with fine linen, bright and pure - for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints."

Keyword...GRANTED

Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy. Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." Revelation 22:11 & 12

Only the chosen ones will have their works counted for recompense. The others are of no account whether they do good or evil. The good won't be rewarded to the evil dirty nasty unholy ones. But the righteous ones who are righteous because of the righteousness they have in Christ, will be rewarded for the good works they have brought to the altar like Abel, not Cain.

If you have robes it is because your good deeds count. Do them in abundance. Do not walk in naked. It also means your robes are clean because you have your faith in the blood of Christ which washes sin.



PREACHERBILL -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 10:26:22 PM)

GREETINGS IN THE MIGHTY NAME OF JESUS
I'M THE NEW ONE ON THE BLOCK
BLOOD BOUGHT SPIRIT FILLED REDNECK THAT LOVES JESUS
AUG 5TH 03 HAD A SAUL ON THE ROAD TO DAMASCUS EXPERIANCE IN MY LIFE....AND NEED SPELL CHECK[:D]..
THE ANSWER TO THE ABOVE IS HERE IN THESE TWO SCRIPTURES
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
1ST JON 4-4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
HES IN US AND ALL THE POWER ALSO



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 10:42:13 PM)

quote:

Thanks for starting this thread. I like the teachings that you have presented on imputed and imparted righteousness. Too often in evangelical circles, there is the assumption that salvation is a done deal upon a public profession of Christ. Such a distortion of the truth does not promote holy living but rather, an attitude of entitlement.
Thank you, Heavendweller! Your comments are well stated and right on target, in my mind.

quote:

Our job is to believe and endure our God given faith filled with hope in God's promise of salvation.
And this job can only be accomplished through imparted righteousness.

quote:

The Good News is that manna is free.
But all the free manna in the world nourishes not a single soul if it is not eaten!



SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (2/1/2008 6:36:21 PM)

A_crucified_man,
quote:

There are actually three distinct aspects to God's will.

Good is God's permissive will.
Acceptable is God's providential will.
Perfect is what it is, God's perfect will for our lives.

I knew that is what you believe when I responded. I have heard this teaching since I was first born again and I respect anyone who may believe that Paul is speaking of three wills of God here, I just disagree. I believe that Paul is speaking of one will of God and describing it with three adjectives.

God's one will can be described with these three terms.

His will is good
His will is acceptable
His will is perfect.

Three adjectives describing one will.

Respectfully,
SH



Mannamuncher -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (2/3/2008 11:06:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SureHope

The NT letters are written to Christians who obviously sinned. The apostle Paul, for example, in his letter to the Romans exhorts the saints there to consider themselves dead to sin and alive to God (Rom 6:11). Why would he have to bring this teaching to a group of saved people if there was not an issue of Christians sinning? It is interesting to note that Paul's teaching to them is that they should not be sinning for the reason that they have died with Christ to the realm of sin and have been made alive to God. It appears to me, from this passage anyway, that the crucial point in living a God honoring life is considering what Christ has done; considering that I have been united with Him, and because of this I no longer am under the power of sin.


Great posting Sure !


Big difference in being told to "Be Holy", and a man

actually believing that he REALLY is holy. Maybe

I cannot grasp the concept that some are saying.



I do know this...Paul speaks of imputing, not imparting.

Again, I plead ignorance that I fail to grasp the verbiage.

Imputation demands previous inadequacy and inability.

Is impartation "getting" something that I already possess,

and merely have to activate, or something that I can

manufacture internally, or be given by another man ?



One might ask about co-crucifixion here as well ?

How do we become co-crucified with Christ Jesus ?

Can we at some point or in some way be un-crucified ?



Lastly, these earthen vessels, aka jars of clay are only

suited to contain so much of God. We are not able to hold

much due to our nature. What we are we are by His grace,

and our weakness exemplifies and manifests His strength and

power in us. We still have fleshly bodies, we have not yet

been changed into our glorious heavenly eternal body.



Until then, our 2 natures wrestle against each other. Even Paul

stated that flesh is contrary to spirit, and spirit contrary to flesh.

Much like the 2 babes stuck togeher in Rebecca's womb.




The righteousness of God can ONLY come from and by God.

Romans 11:36 (King James Version)
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.



Candidus -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (2/3/2008 1:06:42 PM)

quote:

Until then, our 2 natures wrestle against each other. Even Paul

stated that flesh is contrary to spirit, and spirit contrary to flesh.

Much like the 2 babes stuck togeher in Rebecca's womb.


Well, I don't see this "Jekylle and Hyde" theology being stated or rational.

It is true that the "flesh" is contrary to the "spirit," yet Paul does not stop there without some context! "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be the Spirit of God dwell in you... (Ro. 8:9). "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: (v. 13). "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (v. 2). "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (v. 6) It appears that to be "carnally minded" is to indicate that you are not a Christian! "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God... so then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (vs. 7, 8).

It seems that to be carnally minded describes the non-Christian, not the " Hyde" half of a Christian. The "Jekylle" is not just the partially converted half of the duo. I don't see a statement of a conflicted nature, but a warning that you are of one nature or another.



Mannamuncher -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (2/3/2008 5:20:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Candidus

quote:

Until then, our 2 natures wrestle against each other. Even Paul

stated that flesh is contrary to spirit, and spirit contrary to flesh.

Much like the 2 babes stuck togeher in Rebecca's womb.


Well, I don't see this "Jekylle and Hyde" theology being stated or rational.



Maybe you don't, but Paul sees it rather plainly:


Romans 7:24-25 (New King James Version)
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.



Doghouse -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (2/4/2008 6:44:53 AM)

quote:

AUG 5TH 03 HAD A SAUL ON THE ROAD TO DAMASCUS EXPERIANCE IN MY LIFE....AND NEED SPELL CHECK ..
You also "need" to remove your "caps lock" as well...

Welcome to the site and enjoy...



coupleforchrist -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (6/21/2008 12:00:05 AM)

quote:

Some Christians want to say that their children will always be their children, no matter what. Thus, when interpreted in the light of scripture, we can slap God in the face, commit sin cavalierly, and God will just smile and say how much He loves us. Well, we must look at this from God's point of view. The prodigal son asked for his inheritance and squandered it. Was this the end of the story? No, for when he saw his deplorable state he recongized where his sin had led him. He had to return to his father's house to be re-instated into his father's graces. For the writer of Hebrews makes this truth clear: "It is for discipline that you must endure. God is treating you as sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons." Illegitimate children do not receive the reward. Those who accept God's discipline in their lives, display by their manner of living the imparted righteousness of Christ. And thus these are the true children of God who receive their reward, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the joy of your Master."


The scripture that you have highlighted is simply saying when we get out of God's will as a believer, we will be whipped for it. If we do not get under conviction and whipped, then we were never saved to begin with. God is not saying he is going to disown us for our sins but he is going to chasten us and show us we did wrong.



ae10u -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (6/21/2008 4:58:40 AM)

Hi all

This is an interesting discussion.

There is a gap between God and man - a sort of animosity. Sin creates that gap.
How do we close that gap?
Does God fool himself that sinful man is actually not sinful (impute righteousness)...?
Or does God clean up that man so that he is actually not sinful (impart righteousness)...?

When Abraham believed God, and left Ur, the gap between God and Abraham closed.
Here was someone God could work with. It was a bit of impute, and a bit of impart. Point was that Abraham became God's friend (2 Chron 20:7).

When you have a friend, and they say something stupid (sin) and potentially offend you, one is more likely to impute righteousness (overlook their sin). This is because their friendship is valuable to you.

King David, who made many mistakes, was God's friend too. God was very willing to overlook David's faults, just so long as David was willing to confess them and change (eg. when Nathan rebuked him over Bathsheba and Uriah).

Really, I believe the emphasis is on reconcilliation. A person can be sinless, and still not be a friend of God's. That person will not be righteous in God's eyes, until that person develops a warm and loving relationship with God. Thus, to love God is the first command.

In summary, if you have a child you love and it makes a mistake. You will do all in your power as parent to reconcile that relationship. You will try to correct your child, AND you will try to overlook their faults. You will impute and impart righteousness equally. But most important of all is that YOU WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT CHILD. If the child resists and spurns this, you cannot ultimately impute or impart righteousness - and the relationship will ultimately fail. Abraham's willingness, imputed and imparted righteousness, thus making him a friend of God. That is all important.



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (6/21/2008 8:16:29 AM)

quote:

There is a gap between God and man - a sort of animosity. Sin creates that gap.
How do we close that gap?
Does God fool himself that sinful man is actually not sinful (impute righteousness)...?
Or does God clean up that man so that he is actually not sinful (impart righteousness)...?
Well stated, ae10u! I have always thought that the doctrine of imputed righteousness alone made God out to be blind, ignorant, deceived, or some combination thereof. Imputed and imparted righteousness go hand-in-hand for true reconciliation.

quote:

A person can be sinless, and still not be a friend of God's.
I do not see how this is possible. To be declared righteous, made righteous, and living righteously absolutely requires the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit. By definition, a sinless person is a fried of God, a child of God, and a follower of God!



ae10u -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (6/21/2008 12:19:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

A person can be sinless, and still not be a friend of God's.
I do not see how this is possible. To be declared righteous, made righteous, and living righteously absolutely requires the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit. By definition, a sinless person is a fried of God, a child of God, and a follower of God!


By a "sinless" person, I mean someone who has not broken any laws. Even a dead person does not break any of the 10 commandments.
The Pharisees tried to not break laws.

I agree with you that to be "righteous" requires the grace of God. But "sinless" is not equal to "righteous". An atheist may be more law-abiding than a Christian, but the atheist has no relationship with God - therefore God will not extend eternal grace to the atheist until he repents and develops a relationship with God. The first command is to love God. Nobody who does not love God will be saved. If a person keeps every law, but does not love God - he is not righteous nor has God given him grace. Phew [:)]



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (6/21/2008 1:34:54 PM)

quote:

By a "sinless" person, I mean someone who has not broken any laws. Even a dead person does not break any of the 10 commandments.
Has such a person ever existed? - Romans 3:23 Are dead persons capable of sinning? It's a little late for righteousness if you're dead! - Hebr 9:27

quote:

The Pharisees tried to not break laws.
And Jesus pointed out that trying harder is not righteousness - Matt 5:20

quote:

But "sinless" is not equal to "righteous".
Oh, but it is, ae10u, when imparted righteousness accompanies imputed righteousness. That the whole idea of being made holy, not merely declared holy!

quote:

therefore God will not extend eternal grace to the atheist until he repents and develops a relationship with God.
Then not a single atheist could possibly be saved since there would be no way for the atheist to do those things. The correct understanding is that God extends prevenient grace to everyone and we are responsible for appropriating that grace in order to repent and follow.

quote:

If a person keeps every law, but does not love God - he is not righteous nor has God given him grace.
Well again, there's no such person because the only way anyone can obey God is by His grace and power.



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2]



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI