Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (Full Version)

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drmark -> Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/28/2008 7:38:49 PM)

Frequently on many threads, especially those concerning the doctrine of salvation, the term "imputed righteousness" is mentioned. On several occasions, I have responded that there is no imputation of righteousness without impartation. Most recently, I posted the following on the thread titled "Entire Sanctification - Yes, It Is Possible":

quote:

Of course, we have all sinned. But the point of understanding sanctification is to realize that Jesus saves us not only in our sin, but also from our sin. Both our standing and our state are changed by His amazing grace. The righteousness of Christ is not only imputed to cover us, but also imparted to live inside us. I do not have to sin every day, by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit!

One of the discussants wished to clarify the concept of imparted vs. imputed righteousness, which I feel would be better served on this new thread. I'm a bit pessimistic that this may eventually deteriorate into a Wesleyan/Reformed debate, but perhaps my expectations are too low.

Since I'm the OP, I have the privelege of steering the dialogue in the initial direction. First, let's define terms in reference to a characteristic such as holiness. "Imputed" means (to me) that the characteristic has been attributed or credited to one who may not necessarily possess that specific character. "Imparted", on the other hand", means that the characteristic has been given or transmitted, at least in part, to one's character. This implies to me a stronger quality than imputed, since imparting the quality makes it truly exist, not merely on one's account ledger.

So, I'm open for clarification of these definitions and then the first discussion point. Where in the Bible does it say righteousness is imputed to the Believer? On the contrary, it seems quite clear to me from Romans 5:12-21 that we Christians are made (not just viewed as) righteous, through the impartation of Christ's righteousness to us.
quote:

Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.



FREELUTH -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 12:02:04 PM)

Hey Doc, this could be a great disscussion. My first thought on imputation is Romans 4 :3

4:3
For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.
English Standard Version

The word counted in the greek is cleary are word the means credited to or accounted to. I am not agruing for only imputation. I am saying that Christ's righteousness is absolutly credited to the believer when he believes.

As for imparted righteousness, I think we must say that God does give us the grace to become more sanctified all the time. We SHOULD be becoming more Christ like. If that is imparted grace, then I guess I would agree. But I also believe scripture teaches believers are at the same time 100% Saint and 100% sinner. Great stuff to think and study about. Thanks for starting the thread.



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 12:41:10 PM)

quote:

Hey Doc, this could be a great disscussion. My first thought on imputation is Romans 4 :3

4:3
For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.
English Standard Version
I had a sneeking suspicion Romans 4 would be the first attempt at Scriptural support. In both verse 3 and 5, the text states that Abraham believed God and his faith was credited as righteousness. I do not see where God imputed His own Holy character on Abraham's account. Do you?



Superfundy -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 1:00:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

Frequently on many threads, especially those concerning the doctrine of salvation, the term "imputed righteousness" is mentioned. On several occasions, I have responded that there is no imputation of righteousness without impartation. Most recently, I posted the following on the thread titled "Entire Sanctification - Yes, It Is Possible":

quote:

Of course, we have all sinned. But the point of understanding sanctification is to realize that Jesus saves us not only in our sin, but also from our sin. Both our standing and our state are changed by His amazing grace. The righteousness of Christ is not only imputed to cover us, but also imparted to live inside us. I do not have to sin every day, by the grace of God and the power of the Holy Spirit!

One of the discussants wished to clarify the concept of imparted vs. imputed righteousness, which I feel would be better served on this new thread. I'm a bit pessimistic that this may eventually deteriorate into a Wesleyan/Reformed debate, but perhaps my expectations are too low.

Since I'm the OP, I have the privelege of steering the dialogue in the initial direction. First, let's define terms in reference to a characteristic such as holiness. "Imputed" means (to me) that the characteristic has been attributed or credited to one who may not necessarily possess that specific character. "Imparted", on the other hand", means that the characteristic has been given or transmitted, at least in part, to one's character. This implies to me a stronger quality than imputed, since imparting the quality makes it truly exist, not merely on one's account ledger.

So, I'm open for clarification of these definitions and then the first discussion point. Where in the Bible does it say righteousness is imputed to the Believer? On the contrary, it seems quite clear to me from Romans 5:12-21 that we Christians are made (not just viewed as) righteous, through the impartation of Christ's righteousness to us.
quote:

Romans 5:19 - For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.



I guess my first question would be in regards to what you believe about the "In Christ" and "Christ in you" doctrines?

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
1Co 1:31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.



SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 1:07:16 PM)

drmark,

Righteousness imputed, in my mind, is being justified by faith. Righteousness has been credited to the account of those who have genuine faith.

Righteousness imparted has to do with the Holy Spirit residing in the believer. That is, being born again, regeneration, the nature of God being imparted in the believers life.

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom 8:3-4 ESV)

What is the "righteous requirement of the law" which is fulfilled in us?

1. All who break the law will be punished. Christ took on the punishment we deserved by becoming a propitiation, thus satisfying the wrath of God. In doing so those who believe are proclaimed righteous in His sight. This is righteousness imputed to our account.

2. That all obey the law. When we are united with Christ we are made new creations in Christ. It is God who is at work within us both to will and do of His good pleasure. God is changing us into the image of His Son from glory to glory. This is righteousness imparted.

The law is fulfilled in genuine Christians in both these ways - righteousness imputed and righteousness imparted.

Because righteousness is imparted within us, when we sin we are grieved and repent. When we do sin the righteousness of God is still imputed to our account; we remain righteous in His sight. Thank God righteousness has been imputed and imparted.

Blessings,
SH



Superfundy -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 1:26:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SureHope

drmark,

Righteousness imputed, in my mind, is being justified by faith. Righteousness has been credited to the account of those who have genuine faith.

Righteousness imparted has to do with the Holy Spirit residing in the believer. That is, being born again, regeneration, the nature of God being imparted in the believers life.

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Rom 8:3-4 ESV)

What is the "righteous requirement of the law" which is fulfilled in us?

1. All who break the law will be punished. Christ took on the punishment we deserved by becoming a propitiation, thus satisfying the wrath of God. In doing so those who believe are proclaimed righteous in His sight. This is righteousness imputed to our account.

2. That all obey the law. When we are united with Christ we are made new creations in Christ. It is God who is at work within us both to will and do of His good pleasure. God is changing us into the image of His Son from glory to glory. This is righteousness imparted.

The law is fulfilled in genuine Christians in both these ways - righteousness imputed and righteousness imparted.

Because righteousness is imparted within us, when we sin we are grieved and repent. When we do sin the righteousness of God is still imputed to our account; we remain righteous in His sight. Thank God righteousness has been imputed and imparted.

Blessings,
SH


Precisely.

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

This would not be possible if not for imputed righteousness.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Not by OUR life, but HIS life.

[:)]



Him4all -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 1:34:58 PM)

DrMark,

I've long made a distinction between imputed and imparted righteousness. I view imputed righteousness as justification and imparted righteousness as sanctification.

I also consider imputed righteousness as being understood with words like "counted righteous" and "declared righteous".

Whereas imparted righteousness was the result of taking the imputted/declared/called righteousness and "fulfilling" it by making it a part (imparted) of my walk. The areas of my life where I've done that I don't think I'm 'considered' righteous...I am righteous...by His power to overcome.

In scripture I think I see that imputed righteousness is believing God and imparted righteosness is obeying God.

Just some of my thoughts.

DR



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 1:59:20 PM)

quote:

I guess my first question would be in regards to what you believe about the "In Christ" and "Christ in you" doctrines?
Hmm, I had not considered this terminology as much as "standing and state". How could one be "in Christ" without having "Christ in you"?

quote:

Righteousness imputed, in my mind, is being justified by faith. Righteousness has been credited to the account of those who have genuine faith.

Righteousness imparted has to do with the Holy Spirit residing in the believer. That is, being born again, regeneration, the nature of God being imparted in the believers life.
So if I'm following you correctly, SureHope, this reasoning means that both imputed and imparted righteousness are together involved in salvation. Is that your belief?

quote:

I've long made a distinction between imputed and imparted righteousness. I view imputed righteousness as justification and imparted righteousness as sanctification.
Well Him4all, in my non-professional understanding of Wesleyan-derived theology, I would agree that this has been the historical distinction between imputed and imparted righteousness. And certainly in that tradition, justification and sanctification are considered two distinctly separate works of grace. So by your reasoning, one may have imputed righteousness (as a newly born-again Christian) but not yet have imparted righteousness (until entire sanctification occurs). Am I understanding you correctly?

quote:

In scripture I think I see that imputed righteousness is believing God and imparted righteosness is obeying God.
So my follow-up question, Him4all, is this: Can a truly saved Believer (justified by imputation) obey God before they are sanctified (have His righteousness imparted into them)? If not, how long can a saved Believer live before they become sanctified?



Superfundy -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 3:44:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

I guess my first question would be in regards to what you believe about the "In Christ" and "Christ in you" doctrines?
Hmm, I had not considered this terminology as much as "standing and state". How could one be "in Christ" without having "Christ in you"?


Precisely my point. The next step then is how can we have "Christ in us" and be sinners in any capacity. The answer of course is the imputed righteousness of Christ. Through His blood, no matter our state at redemption, we are righteous in Him, and therefore He comes to be in us, through the Holy Spirit.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Simply put it is His righteousness which is responsible for ours.

Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:



Him4all -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 4:57:57 PM)

DrMark,

quote:

Hmm, I had not considered this terminology as much as "standing and state". How could one be "in Christ" without having "Christ in you"?

That also is how I divide imputed and imparted. 'Me in Christ' is based upon what he did and His imputed righteousness makes me a member OF the faith. Whereas Christ's life being imparted into my life by what I do makes 'Christ in me' a reality as I walk IN the faith.

Mark,
quote:

So by your reasoning, one may have imputed righteousness (as a newly born-again Christian) but not yet have imparted righteousness (until entire sanctification occurs). Am I understanding you correctly?

You're correct on how I see imputed righteousness, but not exactly correct on how I view imparted. I see justification and imputed righteousness as the initial salvation of my spirit. I view sanctification and imparted righteousness as the ongoing salvation of my soul. I see imparted as coming in parts....those parts being whatever area of my life I now walk in obedience to His life. Those areas that are still unchanged are not sanctified. That's how I look at it anyway. I suppose one could say that at initial salvation, or spirit rebirth, that your spirit is 100% sanctified too, but I don't. 1Thess 5:23 might even be supportive of that kind of statement.

1TH 5:23 May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

My spirit is sound and blameless by virtue of rebirth. My soul is sound and blameless by virtue of how much of the mind of Christ has replaced my mind being "transformed". My body is sound and blameless by how much I walk out what I believe in my soul/mind. I might truly have repented and believe (soul) that getting drunk is a sin and not want to do it...but do anyway. My body is no longer "sound and blameless"....it's hungover and one drunk closer to cirrhosis.

Mark,
quote:

Can a truly saved Believer (justified by imputation) obey God before they are sanctified (have His righteousness imparted into them)?

I don't think so. I think of imputed righteousness as a bank account in my name, and 100% of Christ's righteousness in that account. It doesn't become imparted rigteousness to me until I make a withdrawal from that account (repent and believe) and change the area which I've been convicted by the Holy Spirit of...and then change and walk in Christ's righteousness.

Should I die I have total access to heaven because I am in Him and have Christ's 100% imputed righteousness which is in my name's account. I did nothing good enough to deserve that righteousness and I can't do anything bad enough to loose that righteousness.

But the rewards I receive after getting to heaven will be based upon how much imputed righteousness I withdrew and put in my life/walk here on earth. In other words sanctification is progressive in my life.

Mark,
quote:

If not, how long can a saved Believer live before they become sanctified?

If my answer above didn't answer this then I may not even have an answer. Do you have thoughts on how long?

DR



FREELUTH -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 4:59:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Hey Doc, this could be a great disscussion. My first thought on imputation is Romans 4 :3

4:3
For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.
English Standard Version
I had a sneeking suspicion Romans 4 would be the first attempt at Scriptural support. In both verse 3 and 5, the text states that Abraham believed God and his faith was credited as righteousness. I do not see where God imputed His own Holy character on Abraham's account. Do you?

I do not see that in verse 3, in verse 5 yes. But where does man get faith ? It also is a gift from God !!!!! I also believe it is not the act of faith but the object of faith that is being spoken of.



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 5:24:54 PM)

quote:

I do not see that in verse 3, in verse 5 yes. But where does man get faith ? It also is a gift from God !!!!!
Well yes, we call that prevenient grace, but that does not save anyone. We are saved by (saving) grace, through faith (which we must exercise of our own accord). Surely you don't think God's faith is imputed to us!

The same Greek word pistis that is used in Ephesians 2:8 is also used in Romans 4:3 (Abraham believed God) and Romans 4:5 (the man...trusts God and his faith is credited...). Why not see both concepts in both verses, FREELUTH?



SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 7:53:24 PM)

drmark,
quote:

So if I'm following you correctly, SureHope, this reasoning means that both imputed and imparted righteousness are together involved in salvation. Is that your belief?

Yes. When one is born again and made a child of God, God is at work in Him both to will and to do of His good pleasure (imparted righteousness). And of course, a person who is born again has also been made righteous in God's sight (imputed righteousness).

I look at God's work of sanctification as a process.

And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18 ESV)

The genuine believer is being transformed from glory to glory to be conformed to the image of the Son of God. This process has already started in the newly born again believer's life and will continue until he is perfected in heaven.



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 9:19:00 PM)

quote:

That also is how I divide imputed and imparted. 'Me in Christ' is based upon what he did and His imputed righteousness makes me a member OF the faith. Whereas Christ's life being imparted into my life by what I do makes 'Christ in me' a reality as I walk IN the faith.
Nice phraseology, Him4all. I may use it in the future (with your permission).

quote:

You're correct on how I see imputed righteousness, but not exactly correct on how I view imparted. I see justification and imputed righteousness as the initial salvation of my spirit. I view sanctification and imparted righteousness as the ongoing salvation of my soul.
Well, that's fine too. The Wesleyan tradition promotes (entire) sanctification as both a crisis event and a process of spiritual maturation. I think there may have been too much emphasis on the crisis of second blessing holiness in some circles in the past, but current doctrine seems to be returning to its original Wesleyan roots in viewing sanctification as a lifelong journey in Christian perfection.

quote:

Those areas that are still unchanged are not sanctified. That's how I look at it anyway. I suppose one could say that at initial salvation, or spirit rebirth, that your spirit is 100% sanctified too, but I don't. 1Thess 5:23 might even be supportive of that kind of statement.
I believe that 1 Th 5:23 is used as a proof text for entire sanctification by some Holiness theologians.

quote:

Should I die I have total access to heaven because I am in Him and have Christ's 100% imputed righteousness which is in my name's account. I did nothing good enough to deserve that righteousness and I can't do anything bad enough to loose that righteousness.
Oh boy, here's where we start to have serious disagreement! But since this is not a thread on eternal security, I will keep my rebuttal brief. Scripture is replete with the concept connecting standing in Christ to state with Christ (references available upon request). It is inconsistent to accept that salvation involves both imputed and imparted righteousness while at the same time claiming that only our standing in Christ (legal justification) is required for "total access to Heaven" while our state with Christ (sanctified holiness) is irrelevant to our salvation.

quote:

quote:

If not, how long can a saved Believer live before they become sanctified?

If my answer above didn't answer this then I may not even have an answer. Do you have thoughts on how long?
Since our views on "progressive sanctification" differ significantly, our answers to this question will pass right by each other. But I do appreciate your well-considered thoughts, Him4all!



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/29/2008 9:25:21 PM)

quote:

Yes. When one is born again and made a child of God, God is at work in Him both to will and to do of His good pleasure (imparted righteousness). And of course, a person who is born again has also been made righteous in God's sight (imputed righteousness).
Okay, so the obvious question (at least to me, SureHope) is why do so many saved Christians claim to still struggle so frequently with regular sin if they supposedly received Christ's imparted righteousness at conversion? Where is the evidence of that imparted righteousness in their daily walk?



SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 6:12:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Yes. When one is born again and made a child of God, God is at work in Him both to will and to do of His good pleasure (imparted righteousness). And of course, a person who is born again has also been made righteous in God's sight (imputed righteousness).
Okay, so the obvious question (at least to me, SureHope) is why do so many saved Christians claim to still struggle so frequently with regular sin if they supposedly received Christ's imparted righteousness at conversion? Where is the evidence of that imparted righteousness in their daily walk?

The NT letters are written to Christians who obviously sinned. The apostle Paul, for example, in his letter to the Romans exhorts the saints there to consider themselves dead to sin and alive to God (Rom 6:11). Why would he have to bring this teaching to a group of saved people if there was not an issue of Christians sinning? It is interesting to note that Paul's teaching to them is that they should not be sinning for the reason that they have died with Christ to the realm of sin and have been made alive to God. It appears to me, from this passage anyway, that the crucial point in living a God honoring life is considering what Christ has done; considering that I have been united with Him, and because of this I no longer am under the power of sin.

Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. We know that Christ being raised from the dead will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. (Romans 6:8-11 ESV)


This is why Paul wrote to the saints in Ephesus the doctrine in chapters 1-3 and then at the beginning of chapter 4 states,

I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, (Ephesians 4:1 ESV)

If Christians never sin then there would be no need for this exhortation. Again in chapter 5,

Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. (Ephesians 5:1 ESV)

What Paul is saying by the word "therefore" is - because you now know what is true of you, begin to act as if it were true, because in fact it is true.

If righteousness imparted in and of itself makes it impossible for Christians to sin then there would have been no need for the epistles to be written to them (and us). The wonderful thing about the teaching of the apostles is that Christians do not have to sin and the reasoning is what God has done to us and in us by, through and in Christ Jesus. Some other examples,

who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, (Galatians 1:4 ESV)

Since therefore Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves with the same way of thinking, for whoever has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, (1 Peter 4:1 ESV)

by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. (2 Peter 1:4 ESV)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9 ESV)

This is only a few examples. If there was not a conflict of sinning in believers lives there would of been no need for Paul, Peter and John to say what they said.

The more the genuine saint applies the truth in his life the more he will experience that which is true of him.

I think it was Michael W. Smith who sang, "Since the word of God is true, I'm doing better than I know." The more the saint of God knows about and applies the truth of the gospel the more he or she will live in a manner worthy of the Lord; using the members of our bodies as "instruments of righteousness" instead of "instruments of unrighteousness."

Blessings,
SH



SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 6:45:04 AM)

I wanted to add . . .

There is also the growth aspect found in the NT. Believers are exhorted to,

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. (2 Peter 3:18 ESV)

Paul exhorts the Corinthian believers . . .

And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:18 ESV)

The more we see the glory of God in the face of Christ Jesus through seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ (2 Cor 4.4,6), the more we will be changed . . . from glory to glory.

This process does not only involve our understanding, but also involves our actions. We are responsible to act. This is why Paul states:

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1 ESV)

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. (Philippians 2:12-13 ESV)

Practice these things, devote yourself to them, so that all may see your progress. (1 Timothy 4:15 ESV)

It is because of righteousness imparted that this transformation takes place until the day when we will see Him

Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. (1 John 3:2-3 ESV)

For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. (1 Corinthians 13:12 ESV)

When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. (Colossians 3:4 ESV)

That will be a glorious day. Until then, we eagerly wait for Him, preparing ourselves by purifying ourselves so we will not be ashamed at His coming.

Blessings,
SH



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 8:18:28 AM)

quote:

why do so many saved Christians claim to still struggle so frequently with regular sin if they supposedly received Christ's imparted righteousness at conversion?
This was my question to you, SureHope, in light of your belief that Christians receive imparted righteousness at the moment of their conversion. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and Scriptural support that you gave in your response, but I see nothing that addresses the primary issue. Many self-professed Believers (perhaps most if the sample posting on these forums is representative) admit to ongoing regular sin in their lives. For them it's not "if I sin" but "when I sin".

Nowhere have I ever claimed that Christians never sin or that imparted righteousness (entire sanctification in my denomination's tradition) makes it impossible to sin. I'm truly questioning the perceived inability of supposedly saved Believers to stop sinning in light of your claim that they have Christ's righteousness imparted into them so that they are "no longer under the power of sin". What's your explanation, SureHope?



Him4all -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 12:06:23 PM)

Mark,

What an enjoyable post you responded to me with. I am humbled with your request for "Phraseology". May I answer your request with a scripture? "...freely ye have received, freely give."

quote:

I believe that 1 Th 5:23 is used as a proof text for entire sanctification by some Holiness theologians.

I can see why they do that but it just doesn't fit my paradigm. I guess that's the problem with learning. The more you know the smaller your 'circle of acceptance' can sometimes become. Especially if you aren't confining your belief system to one box. My experience was that after coming to a saving knowledge of God I was only in the "organized church" for about 2 years (Lutheran). At that point I felt like the church was holding me back spiritually more than growing me. So my wife and I left 'structured Christianity' for 17 years. Our growth came from homechurches, cassete tape ministry, and books, and non/inter denominational retreats. So I had to work through a lot of paradigms to 'arrive' at my present belief system.

[:D] OK...no eternal security talk here.

quote:

It is inconsistent to accept that salvation involves both imputed and imparted righteousness while at the same time claiming that only our standing in Christ (legal justification) is required for "total access to Heaven" while our state with Christ (sanctified holiness) is irrelevant to our salvation.


But I will make a brief comment concerning the above...OK? Not "irrelevant" at all in my opinion. It's totally relevant as to my fellowship with God but not my relationship. I see imputed r for the spirit as the thing that establishes my relationship with God (He's my Father I'm his child). While I see imparted r as being for the soul and it can't affect my relationship but it does affect my fellowship (His presence, peace, joy ect. in me). I am working out the salvation of my soul/mind and therefore view sanctified holiness as absolutely important to my soul's salvation.

JAM 1:21 Therefore put away all filthiness and rank growth of wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls.
This verse was written to believers and not unbelievers. And he is saying their souls need to be progressively saved by 'growing the word'.

1PE 1:22 Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brethren, love one another earnestly from the heart.
Another verse saying the purification/salvation/sanctification of our souls comes about by "obedience" to the truth (not just believing it).

quote:

Since our views on "progressive sanctification" differ significantly, our answers to this question will pass right by each other. But I do appreciate your well-considered thoughts, Him4all!

Your spirit and attitude here/above is fulfillment of what the above verse just said we should have toward one another..."a sincere love of the brethren....from the heart". [:)]

God bless you,

DR



SureHope -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 1:12:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

why do so many saved Christians claim to still struggle so frequently with regular sin if they supposedly received Christ's imparted righteousness at onversion?

This was my question to you, SureHope, in light of your belief that Christians receive imparted righteousness at the moment of their conversion. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and Scriptural support that you gave in your response, but I see nothing that addresses the primary issue. Many self-professed Believers (perhaps most if the sample posting on these forums is representative) admit to ongoing regular sin in their lives. For them it's not "if I sin" but "when I sin".

Nowhere have I ever claimed that Christians never sin or that imparted righteousness (entire sanctification in my denomination's tradition) makes it impossible to sin. I'm truly questioning the perceived inability of supposedly saved Believers to stop sinning in light of your claim that they have Christ's righteousness imparted into them so that they are "no longer under the power of sin". What's your explanation, SureHope?

I appreciate you line of questioning. And to make sure we understand each other, I did not think that you claimed that Christians never sin, etc. I was trying to be clear, but I am not the best communicator. Please bear with me . . . I will give it my best shot in answering you question.

Two explanations:

1. Those who think they are saved but have never come to genuine saving faith in Christ. We live in a church culture that accepts "easy believism". The extreme cases are when a message on success or self esteem (or whatever else that misses the main point of the gospel) is preached, then at the end a call to "get saved" is given where people come to the edge of the stage and "make a decision for Christ". I am not judging whether specific individuals are saved or not, but am pointing out that many (and I have spoken with many) do not have a clue what they have repented from and whom they have repented to. They do not know the place of the Cross of Christ and the significance in their relationship with God and much less for daily living. These, of course, will love sin more than Christ and His glory and will therefore live a life of practicing sin.

2. Those that may have genuinely been born again but have not received solid, fundamental teaching and may not read their Bibles regularly will be plagued by sin. Again, this is why the apostles wrote what they did, in order to give genuine believers the objective truths about what has happened to them in Christ and directions on how to apply the truth in their every day lives.

A believer may have the life of God imparted within him, but because of an unrenewed mind and inappropriate affections a genuine believer will struggle with sin. That is why we have the NT doctrines and exhortations to walk them out in a manner worthy of our Lord. That is why the local church should take as its supreme priority to disciple believers. Evangelism will always be the outcome of genuine believers nurtured in their faith.

In conclusion, the reason people in the church struggle with sin is 1.) false believers, and 2.) immature Christians that are not nurtured in the objective truths of the faith and thus not able to stand in the day of temptation (or days).

Blessings,
SH



A_crucified_man -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 6:29:43 PM)

Vine's mentions "reckoned" as the better word instead of using "imputed" for righteousness - we receive His righteousness on account of our faith in Christ. Romans 4:3, 5, 6, 11.

Like all things we receive from God, this is a gift because there is absolutely nothing worthy or good in any of us.

Am I understanding this correctly?



DInsight -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/30/2008 8:23:58 PM)

We believe faith in our hearts unto (leading to) righteousness. It means that faith, in the raw material and default state, is a gift to be eventually worked out righteously in us.

The working out of faith of God that we receive is by grace of God. That process of working out the faith of God we receive leads to sanctification; grace simply purifies (as faith is tried, refined as a finished) faith.

Faith is tried and refined not necessarily because of associated iniquities, but to bring to perfection. As the Grace of God, our Lord is the Finisher of faith. A finished faith is called the patience (not to be confused with the longsuffering) of God.

Grace does sanctifies so that the gift of the hope of God can then present us spotless and blameless unto the Almighty God. That is so because grace (the process that) sanctifies (sets us apart in purity) in the hope of God.

When accepted as the spotless and blameless by the Almighty God – the Father, the faith in us is begotten (hence, ourselves also) as sons (I am not referring to being born again) of the Father in the glorious realm of God. That is called eternal salvation, which is the perfection of God. Now, we see the glorious process starting from faith through grace unto salvation (in the glory of the God of Heaven).

Imputation versus Impartation

You’ll notice that faith was imputed unto Abraham as righteousness only in those days of Abraham. It was for a reason; grace was not yet given at that time to righteously work out the faith of Abraham.

So, when Abraham believed faith, it (faith - see Rom. 4:9) was imputed (accounted, reckoned, credited) unto him for righteousness. He was blessed because God had given him the gift of faith. Without the gift of faith, sin is imputed – Romans 4:1. That is why anything done without the faith of God easily has sin imputed.

Fast forward to the dispensation of grace…. that is, after grace came. You’ll notice that Apostle Paul imparted faith – Roman 1:11-12 to the gentiles. He (Paul) was given the gift of faith to impart in ministry. He neither imputed faith nor imparted righteousness.

Paul could forbear to those he was sent. Forbearance is, by itself, a gift of faith (you can call it the abundance of faith). By this gift those who lack faith are given all things related to faith of God – see 1 Thessalonians 3.

Not only was Paul given the gift of forbearance to impart the faith of God, he was also given the dispensation of grace to boot. This way, he could combine the impartion of the gift of faith with the impartation the gift of grace in order to righteously work out the faith of God in saints and believers. In so doing, imparted faith would not be "dead" from not having been worked out by grace unto salvation. We know that faith without works is dead (dormant).

The Father has given all authority in heaven and on earth to the Son. Now, there is abundant grace available in heaven and on the earth to all who believe. All must come to the Christ in order to obtain both faith and grace that works out faith. As His gift to the Church, Christ has ordained some given to some the ministries of grace and faith among ministries.

Blessings to all.



noitulover -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 1:17:56 AM)

Does sin put you out of God's will if you are saved?

THE ANSWER HAS TO BE NO if God is looking at your imputed righteousness of Christ. It can't be any other way.

This in no way is a license to sin.

Sanctification is a corridor of Holiness and our witness moves in that direction.

Is the righteousness of Christ imparted? In so far as the Holy Spirit is in you, OF COURSE IT IS. That's what the First Comforter was doing. The other does the same thing.

The heart is turned from stone to flesh and the Holy Spirit writes the laws there. Without ever seeing or reading a Bible, you are sanctified and the circumcision of Christ cuts away everything that is not Holy. Spiritual Circumcision or a process of sanctification takes time. It can be a heart felt gut wrenching experience at times.

The sinner hears, "CHRIST CRUCIFIED"
The sinner finds out he has a gift of faith if he was predestinated by God to be saved.
The faith begins to fill with hope in the promises regarding salvation.
God grants this sinner another gift which is the Holy Spirit.
The sinner is now a saint because the righteousness of Christ is imputed to him.
All past, present, and future sins are forgiven.
The old person called a sinner is spiritually born again.
The shell is the same but on the inside he is a new man with a new Spirit.
The process of circumcision or sanctification begins.
Everything not holy is cut away.
Over time, this person becomes Christ like.
The Bible is not needed for any of this to take place. The Good News is enough. Love edifies.
God is Love



drmark -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 8:49:10 AM)

quote:

Does sin put you out of God's will if you are saved?

THE ANSWER HAS TO BE NO if God is looking at your imputed righteousness of Christ. It can't be any other way.

This in no way is a license to sin.
Well, here comes the deterioration into Reformed/Wesleyan debate. The very definition of sin is deliberately disobeying God's Will, noitulover! Thus, we must be out of God's Will when we sin, regardless of our imputed righteousness. Do you honestly think God can wink at sin of a Believer and fail to see through his "spotless robes" while damning the unregenerate to eternal hell because he was "predestined" not to believe? Sorry, it's not in my Bible!

Imputed righteousness ALONE will logically lead to antinomianism, noitulover. Your unfounded optimism is refuted by a multitude of personal examples throughout history.



Him4all -> RE: Is Righteousness Imputed, Imparted, or Both? (1/31/2008 11:24:38 AM)

Scripture would seem to indicate that there are levels to the will of God.

ROM 12:2 Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

It should be understood by all, I would think, that nothing happens that isn't 'the will of God', for who can honestly thwart God's will? Can sin still be within God's "good" will for us while not being "acceptable" or "perfect"? I think scripture says yes.

ROM 8:28 We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose.

Can we believe that God can work good even through our sin? Again scripture says yes.

JER 2:19 Your wickedness will chasten you, and your apostasy will reprove you. Know and see that it is evil and bitter for you to forsake the LORD your God; the fear of me is not in you, says the Lord GOD of hosts.

From my POV, my children are still my children (empty nest now) no matter what they do. I can not deny that they are of my loins. But their actions do determine whether or not they are in my "good" or "acceptable" or "perfect" will. And even though their disobedience may separate them from my blessings and benevolence today, being a 'decent' (?) father, I never had intentions of ever writing my son out of the will because of his severe rebellion as a teen. Many here will determine in their hearts that our loving heavenly father will write us out/off eternally. But I personally don't believe His "perfect" will/plan allows for that.

DR



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