RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ?

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JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 10:09:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP To love Christ is to love his Bride, the Church. To doubt the Bride is to doubt Covenant. Without the Covenant we have no relationship to God through Christ for the Covenant is the stipulation by which we know God, it is the marriage bond between Christ and his people. This has its roots in Old Testament where God represented himself as married to his people, Israel. It is even more so under the New Covenant where Christ has shed his blood for the Church, i.e. all believers. The Romans Catholics did not invent this doctrine, it is whole counsel biblical and was known long before Romanism. Where in the Scriptures please? O.K. Let’s do Remedial Ecclesiology 99: Old Covenant A. God (Jehovah) represents himself as married to Israel in the Old Testament. (Isa.54:6; Jer.3:20; the entire book of Hosea, particularly chapters 1 and 2) B. The bond of marriage between God and Israel is the Covenant. Jeremiah 31:32 “...not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord.” C. God represents himself as husband (which assume that he has a wife by good and necessary consequence) Isaiah 54:5 “For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.”; 62:5 D. He requires that his people call him by the name of husband. Hosea 2:16 “And in that day, declares the Lord, you will call me 'My Husband,' and no longer will you call me 'My Baal.” E. He calls Israel his Bride. Jer.2 F. The Old Covenant Wedding: Ezekiel 16:1-14– READ ALL OF IT. G. Breaking of Covenant by the wife, Israel, is equated to infidelity repeatedly. Jeremiah 3:20 “‘Surely, as a treacherous wife leaves her husband, so have you been treacherous to me, O house of Israel, declares the Lord.’”; H. When Israel is adulterous (covenant for “idolatrous”) God divorces Israel. Isaiah 50:1 “Thus says the Lord:"Where is your mother's certificate of divorce, with which I sent her away? Or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities you were sold, and for your transgressions your mother was sent away.” New Covenant A. Jesus calls himself the husband and bride-groom. Matt.9:15; 25:1; B. John the Baptist’s witness of Christ (remember, John called him Lam of God, too) John 3:28-29 “You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, 'I am not the Christ, but I have been sent before him.' The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete.” C. The Lamb has a wife. Rev.21:9 D. The body of Christ is the church. Col. 1:24 E. The body and wife of the husband are equated by good and necessary consequence. Ephes. 5:23; 28, READ ALL OF Ephesians 5, particularly the culmination: Ephes. 5:31-33 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. ERGO, The Church is the Bride of Christ. Case closed.

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 11:34:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra NMC: You keep reverting to this Scripture with the idea that it can only be interpreted literally. Yet, the Bible is full of figures of speech which must be interpreted in the context of the entire doctrine. Ezra 100% agreed with the above. quote: ORIGINAL: Ezra If, according to your theory (and that's all it is), this Scripture can only be interpreted literally, then you must also literally interpret what Christ said about eating His body and drinking His blood? So have you literally eaten Christ's body and drunk His blood?.... I’ll answer with Scripture, and forgive me if I get away from the OP. Matt 26:26-29 26 And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. 27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Clearly we’re speaking of bread and the “fruit of the vine”, and in this case the elements are in fact representative of Christ’s body and blood sacrificed for the sins of the world. Regarding the “holy city”, here are a few references: Ps 48:8 8 As we have heard, so have we seen in the city of the LORD of hosts, in the city of our God: God will establish it for ever. Selah. (KJV) Gal 4:25-26 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, (KJV) Heb 12:22-23 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, (KJV) Rev 3:12 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. (KJV) Rev 22:14 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. (KJV) Rev 22:19 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. (KJV) In your signature you quote: “And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely.” Cp. w/ Rev 22:1 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. (KJV) Here’s a question for you Ezra: Is the above mentioned “pure river” literal or figurative? Cp/w Rev 22:2 2 In the midst of the street of it [that is, the city], and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. (KJV) Another question please: Is the account of the tree of life literal or figurative? (Please cp. w/ Gen 2:9, 3:22-24 Please forgive me for getting off-topic, but I pray that the above comparisons are helpful. Thanks again.

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 11:47:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP E. The body and wife of the husband are equated by good and necessary consequence. Ephes. 5:23; 28, READ ALL OF Ephesians 5, particularly the culmination: Ephes. 5:31-33 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. ERGO, The Church is the Bride of Christ. Case closed. Thank you. Speaking of Ephesians... Eph 1:22-23 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. (KJV) Eph 2:16 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (KJV) Eph 3:6 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (KJV) Eph 4:4 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (KJV) Eph 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (KJV) Eph 4:15-16 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (KJV) Eph 5:23 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (KJV) Eph 5:30 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. (KJV) Please compare with: Col 1:18 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (KJV) Col 2:18-19 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. (KJV) Col 3:15 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (KJV) Heb 13:3 3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body. (KJV) Rom 12:4 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: (KJV) Rom 12:5 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (KJV) 1 Cor 6:15 15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (KJV) 1 Cor 12:25 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. (KJV) We see clearly the church is called the body of Christ. Can you please show me where it is called the “bride”? Thank you.

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 11:56:51 AM)
Don't mean to butt in, but: Rev. 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" Do a study on the word, "signified". It means, to make into symbols or signs. That is why the book uses the stock terminology of prophecy "as it were". Ex.24:10; Psa. 17:12; Isa. 5:18; 24:18; Ez. 1:16; Rev. 4:1; 4:6; 6:1; 8:8; 10; 9:7; 9; 10:1; 15:2;19:6)--- that is, "in a figure" or as we would say, "figuratively".

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 12:20:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP Don't mean to butt in, but: Rev. 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" Do a study on the word, "signified". It means, to make into symbols or signs. That is why the book uses the stock terminology of prophecy "as it were". Ex.24:10; Psa. 17:12; Isa. 5:18; 24:18; Ez. 1:16; Rev. 4:1; 4:6; 6:1; 8:8; 10; 9:7; 9; 10:1; 15:2;19:6)--- that is, "in a figure" or as we would say, "figuratively". True. It also means “of significance or importance”. Please look up your Greek usage. One example: John 12:33 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die. Question: Is the “tree of life” symbolic in Revelation?

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 2:07:24 PM)
quote: Question: Is the “tree of life” symbolic in Revelation? Yes. And I don't see where you disproved anything with your examples of the word "signify". Smoke screen?

yod -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 2:28:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP ERGO, The Church is the Bride of Christ. Case closed. LOL....can't find a single place where it actually states though, can you? I understand that you may think it is implied; but it is literally stated in regard to Israel/Jerusalem. try again?? You will be trying forever..but I can wait [;)] And again...the word "church" does not appear in the original writings. It was added as an english translation and theological device to IMPLY something which did not exist The original terms used had no specifically christian religious context. If you read the word "church" to mean "a specifically christian religious gathering" then you are mistaken. The words used mean "the faithful remnant of Israel and those gentiles from the nations who are joined to it"

Restored_Heart -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 2:32:04 PM)
If I may ask... Why are you saying it is not/can not be that?

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 2:36:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP quote: Question: Is the “tree of life” symbolic in Revelation? Yes.... We see the tree of life and the holy city as literal. So we’ll agree to disagree. Thank you.

JimboFletch -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 2:37:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: yod LOL....can't find a single place where it actually states though, can you? Well there you go, we can chunk the doctrine of the Trinity cause it's not actually stated that way, though scripture lays out the evidence from Genesis to Revelation... Sometimes the Lord takes a humble fisherman and makes him an astounding theologian. Sometimes the Lord chooses to leave him a humble fisherman who should stick to just fishing.

Restored_Heart -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 3:14:38 PM)
But what is the evil if we do use the comparison of husband/bride and Christ/Church? NMC or yod.... what danger do you see in this?

yod -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 3:16:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch Well there you go, we can chunk the doctrine of the Trinity cause it's not actually stated that way, though scripture lays out the evidence from Genesis to Revelation... this is a good example. The correct definition of the word "trinity" technically implies 3 gods, though I do realize this is not how most christians understand the concept. The tri-unity of Adonai is found in the Tenach...and this concept is repeated in the new covenant scriptures. Just like the concept of gentiles someday coming into the commonwealth of Israel is stated in the Tenach and then repeated in the new covenant scriptures. But it was never the other way around as the religous institution known as the church has tried to do since the 2nd century. restored heart: the danger is that it isn't accurate. The concept of "church" being a specifically christian religious institution which supercedes Gods plan for Israel and at the same times separates the King of the Jews from Israel can not be found in the Bible. However, it is pervasive in european theological writings of later centuries Unfortunately, too many western christians don't know the difference between these post-biblical theological commentaries and the scriptures given to us by the faithful jewish remnant of Israel. .

Restored_Heart -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 4:26:41 PM)
Oh... but I don't view the Church as the "religious institution" or church buildings.... I view them as the believers (old covenant with new grafted in - those that are Christians - real Christians, not just church attenders)

yod -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 4:28:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart Oh... but I don't view the Church as the "religious institution" or church buildings.... I view them as the believers (old covenant with new grafted in - those that are Christians - real Christians, not just church attenders) Then it sounds like you have a proper hebraic understanding of the Assembly.

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/7/2008 6:56:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Restored_Heart But what is the evil if we do use the comparison of husband/bride and Christ/Church? NMC or yod.... what danger do you see in this? The shorthand is that it is adding to and/or taking away from God’s Word. This is true in general, and in light of the relevant passages in Revelation describing “the bride, the Lamb’s wife”. While there are many warnings, here are but a few: Prov 30:5-6 5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 ADD THOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS, LEST HE REPROVE THEE, AND THOU BE FOUND A LIAR. Rev 22:18-19 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 AND IF ANY MAN SHALL TAKE AWAY FROM THE WORDS OF THE BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY, GOD SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, AND OUT OF THE HOLY CITY, and from the things which are written in this book. Gal 1:8-9 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 AS WE SAID BEFORE, SO SAY I NOW AGAIN, IF ANY MAN PREACH ANY OTHER GOSPEL UNTO YOU THAN THAT YE HAVE RECEIVED, LET HIM BE ACCURSED. God takes the handling of His Word with “deadly seriousness”, with the possible result being the second death resulting in “wailing and gnashing of teeth” for eternity.

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 10:00:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: notmycity quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP E. The body and wife of the husband are equated by good and necessary consequence. Ephes. 5:23; 28, READ ALL OF Ephesians 5, particularly the culmination: Ephes. 5:31-33 “Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh." This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. ERGO, The Church is the Bride of Christ. Case closed. Thank you. Speaking of Ephesians... Eph 1:22-23 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. (KJV) Eph 2:16 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (KJV) Eph 3:6 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (KJV) Eph 4:4 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (KJV) Eph 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (KJV) Eph 4:15-16 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (KJV) Eph 5:23 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (KJV) Eph 5:30 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. (KJV) Please compare with: Col 1:18 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (KJV) Col 2:18-19 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. (KJV) Col 3:15 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. (KJV) Heb 13:3 3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; and them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body. (KJV) Rom 12:4 4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: (KJV) Rom 12:5 5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. (KJV) 1 Cor 6:15 15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. (KJV) 1 Cor 12:25 25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. (KJV) We see clearly the church is called the body of Christ. Can you please show me where it is called the “bride”? Thank you. The Church is called the Body, the Bride, the Mother of us all, the nation, the city, the kingdom. If your employing a "hermeneutic" device in that one representation of the Church cancels out the other, you're arguing Scripture against Scripture and making the Holy Spirit out to be a fool. Your welcome.

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 10:04:06 AM)
quote: The correct definition of the word "trinity" technically implies 3 gods, though I do realize this is not how most christians understand the concept. The correct definition of the word "trinity" is "three in one", a contraction of tri-unity and in no way impoies three gods, nor ever has. Tritheos means three gods.

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 10:07:30 AM)
Generally speaking. I'd like to know what church counsel pronounced the term "religious institution" to be a curse word. Christianity is religious and an institution is an organized body. It may be an over-generalization, but the Church is definitely a religious institution. God hates anarchy.

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 11:13:31 AM)
quote: I have read all of the posts in this thread and one question keeps coming to the forefront of my mind - why would notmycity even ask this? Maybe I am just really cynical and hardened from years of dealing with people from many different and often outright strange belief systems, but it is indeed the question I must ask. I understand what your saying. It seems that, in some people's minds, the Holy Spirit never taught the Church a thing until somewhere around, oh, say, 1970, in the Age of American Erudition (otherwise known as the Jesus Movement). Now, he speaks through individuals here and there and corrects all the mistakes made by such dullards as Augustine, Anselm, Jerome, etc. and such weird convocations of barbaric Christians as Nicea, Chalcedon, Ephesus, Carthage, etc. For 2000 years the Church has regarded itself as Christ's Bride and now, at this great date in history, we get to hear how stupid every Christian has been all that time. The short answer to your question? Hubris.

earthless -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 11:16:29 AM)
Ha ha! I like your style. [:)]

yod -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 11:45:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP quote: I have read all of the posts in this thread and one question keeps coming to the forefront of my mind - why would notmycity even ask this? Maybe I am just really cynical and hardened from years of dealing with people from many different and often outright strange belief systems, but it is indeed the question I must ask. I understand what your saying. It seems that, in some people's minds, the Holy Spirit never taught the Church a thing until somewhere around, oh, say, 1970, in the Age of American Erudition (otherwise known as the Jesus Movement). Now, he speaks through individuals here and there and corrects all the mistakes made by such dullards as Augustine, Anselm, Jerome, etc. and such weird convocations of barbaric Christians as Nicea, Chalcedon, Ephesus, Carthage, etc. For 2000 years the Church has regarded itself as Christ's Bride and now, at this great date in history, we get to hear how stupid every Christian has been all that time. The short answer to your question? Hubris. Are you speaking about the same church that killed everyone who disagreed? That is one way to silence the truth...but it isn't the "christian" way, imo For millennia the institution known as the church has spiritually re-applied verses to itself which were understood by the Apostles of the original assembly (the faithful jewish remant) to be peculiar to Israel alone. This is pure arrogance! The word "church" does not appear in the original language of the bible. It is an english translation which implies a theological intent that does not exist in the original writings. Tyndale was burned at the stake for refusing to translate "kahal" and "ecclesia" and "synagoge" as church. The Puritans were persecuted for rejecting that translation in the King James and had to escape to America. The Body and Bride of Messiah is the faithful remnant of Israel and those gentiles/nations who are joined to them. This is pervasive and obvious throughout scripture yet a theological device formed in prejudice against jews has hidden it from far too many of His Body. Ephesians chapters 2 & 3 state quite clearly that we are "fellow heirs" with them, the faithful jewish remnant who was awaiting Yeshua for 3 millenia before we ever heard of Moses. Eph 2:11 Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called "uncircumcised" by those who call themselves "the circumcision" (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. 14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. 19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household, (Israel/the jews) 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Lest that isn't enough for you, Paul repeats this concept in the next chapter Eph 3:6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, (not the other way around) members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. That should settle it. ISRAEL is the Bride and we are joined to them through faith in the King of the Jews .

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 11:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP ...The Church is called... the Bride.... To help, please look up the words bride, bridegroom and espoused in Scripture. Again, please show us that “...the Church is called... the Bride..” in Scripture. It is nowhere in Scripture. quote: ORIGINAL: earthless ....In the New Testament, Christ, the Bridegroom, has sacrificially and lovingly chosen the church to be His bride (Ephesians 5:25-27).... Ephesians 5:22-6:9 addresses the following relationships: -Husbands and wives. -Children and parents. -Servants and masters. NOWHERE IS THE CHURCH EVER CALLED “THE BRIDE”. IT IS CALLED THE “BODY”. Please note: Eph 1:22-23 22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all. (KJV) Eph 2:16 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (KJV) Eph 3:6 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: (KJV) Eph 4:4 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (KJV) Eph 4:11-12 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: (KJV) Eph 4:15-16 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. (KJV) Eph 5:23 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. (KJV) Eph 5:30 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. (KJV) It appears that I’m repeating the same teaching here, so I would ask that those who choose to participate would read ALL of the Scriptures I have provided on this OP before engaging me in further conversation. Thank you.

earthless -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 12:21:14 PM)
notmycity, What's the purpose of your question? No jiving - just an answer.

JoToP -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 12:53:54 PM)
quote: NOWHERE IS THE CHURCH EVER CALLED “THE BRIDE”. IT IS CALLED THE “BODY”. Go to the top of this page. The Bible does say the Church is his Bride. You just don't see it, that's all. Body and Bride--- same thang. We see what we want to see, don't we.

notmycity -> RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? (2/8/2008 1:19:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JoToP quote: NOWHERE IS THE CHURCH EVER CALLED “THE BRIDE”. IT IS CALLED THE “BODY”. Go to the top of this page. The Bible does say the Church is his Bride. You just don't see it, that's all. Body and Bride--- same thang. We see what we want to see, don't we. Such a popular teaching that has permeated Christendom, and no one can show me (chapter and verse) where the church is ever called the bride. There are 15 occurrences of “bridegroom” and 5 occurrences of “bride” in the NT. None ever refer to the church. Eisegesis of Scripture always leads to error, and it is done at one’s own peril. (Prov 30:5-6, Rev 22:18-19)

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