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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 12:52:01 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Oh come on...Jesus Himself said He is the Bridegroom...
Mark 2:
18Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. Some people came and asked Jesus, "How is it that John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees are fasting, but yours are not?"
19Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? They cannot, so long as they have him with them. 20But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.
Also in the parable of the ten virgins He calls Himself the Bridegroom.
2 Cor. 11:2 ...I arranged for you to marry Christ...
That's what a bride does. She gets married.
Maybe He's not your Bridegroom but He certainly is mine, thank you very much.
The Bride isn't mentioned at all in the Mark 2 Passage you mentioned. We must also conclude that the disciples are not part of the bride at all since they are called "guests."
Also, do you literally think Paul has the ability to espouse, betroth, or arrange a wife for Jesus?
Pure balony. Jesus calls Himself the Bridegroom. In order for there to be a Bridegroom there has to be a Bride. And what about the book of Matthew where says "behold the Bridegroom cometh!" in the parable of the ten virgins. Also the end of the Book of revelations, "the Spirit and the BRIDE say come."
If paul says "I arranged for you to marry Christ" he maens what he says. Stop ignoring the scriptures just because they don't agree with your "theology."
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 1:07:36 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Pure balony. Jesus calls Himself the Bridegroom. In order for there to be a Bridegroom there has to be a Bride. And what about the book of Matthew where says "behold the Bridegroom cometh!" in the parable of the ten virgins. Also the end of the Book of revelations, "the Spirit and the BRIDE say come."
If paul says "I arranged for you to marry Christ" he maens what he says. Stop ignoring the scriptures just because they don't agree with your "theology."
Jesus does in fact refer to Himself as the Bridegroom:
Matt 9:15
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bride chamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
Please note He calls His disciples “the children of the bride chamber”, NOT the bride.
As for 2 Cor 11:2, that’s been explained earlier in this thread. It’s a translation error.
Thanks.
Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 1:23:42 PM
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kisstheson
Posts: 984
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Oh come on...Jesus Himself said He is the Bridegroom...
Mark 2:
18Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting. Some people came and asked Jesus, "How is it that John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees are fasting, but yours are not?"
19Jesus answered, "How can the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? They cannot, so long as they have him with them. 20But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them, and on that day they will fast.
Also in the parable of the ten virgins He calls Himself the Bridegroom.
2 Cor. 11:2 ...I arranged for you to marry Christ...
That's what a bride does. She gets married.
Maybe He's not your Bridegroom but He certainly is mine, thank you very much.
The Bride isn't mentioned at all in the Mark 2 Passage you mentioned. We must also conclude that the disciples are not part of the bride at all since they are called "guests."
Also, do you literally think Paul has the ability to espouse, betroth, or arrange a wife for Jesus?
You know if it wasn't so blatantly obvious that you are ignoring the teaching of Christ being the Bridegroom i would laugh. As I said in the previous post... Since christ call himself the Bridegroom then He must have a Bride or He wouldn't be the Bridegroom. The disciples are guests until they are received into Heaven to become the wife of the lamb. (I saw that people have already quoted those scriptures from revelation so I won't bother.) Again why would Jesus call Himself the Bridegroom if He wasn't? See also ephesians 5: 21-26. Clearly paul is speaking about christ's bride here, he ever calls this Bride "her." Also (i can't think of the scripture off hand and I don't have time to look it up. "he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him. shall I take the members of my body and give them to a postitute?" this is a metaphor for the marriage bed bewteen Christ and the bride/wife. The same metaphor is found in ezekiel 16.
Another scripture ciomes to mind,
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the law, can now give yourself to another husband to him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Now how can you deny the clear teaching of the word?
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 1:27:14 PM
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kisstheson
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quote:
Another scripture ciomes to mind,
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the law, can now give yourself to another husband to him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Oh so you're saying that only Jews or messianics are the Bride? Is that correct? Well I disagree...Pauls letter was written to the Romans...gentile christians:
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the law, can now give yourself to another husband to him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 1:30:00 PM
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Beanteaser
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
You know if it wasn't so blatantly obvious that you are ignoring the teaching of Christ being the Bridegroom i would laugh.
I don't recall anyone in this thread saying that Jesus isn't the Bridegroom.
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 2:00:38 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
You know if it wasn't so blatantly obvious that you are ignoring the teaching of Christ being the Bridegroom i would laugh....
With all due respect, no one has done the above in this thread.
Where you are in error is in who the BRIDE is:
Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, COME HITHER, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE.
10 AND HE CARRIED ME AWAY IN THE SPIRIT TO A GREAT AND HIGH MOUNTAIN, AND SHEWED ME THAT GREAT CITY, THE HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD...
The bride is not the church, as has been taught now for centuries. I’ve traced this teaching back to
Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153), and I’ve seen it in several commentaries as well. The only problem is that this is NOT taught in Scripture- ANYWHERE.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 2:51:14 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
The Bible clearly teaches that the Bride is the redeemed, the blood-bought, the beloved Church of Jesus Christ. To come away from Revelation 21 with a different conclusion only shows 1) Your inability to rightly divide the Word and 2) you came with a premise OR choose to ignore other scripture that shows the full story.
What “other scripture...shows the full story” please? You neglected to include any Scripture.
Revelation 21 says what it means, and means what it says - period.
I am aware of centuries of commentaries that attempt to get Revelation 21 to mean something other than what it says, as they also do with Song of Solomon, but they are in severe error.
Thank you.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 2:58:48 PM
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JoToP
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I smell a Messianist view here that the modern, ethnic Jews or, at least, the Messianic Jews are the only ones who can lay claim to being the Bride of Christ (Mashiach). John the Baptist (baptizer), who is the Old Covenant prophet and herald of Messiah does not make this claim. He says, speaking of Christ, the Bride, and himself, “The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. He must increase, but I must decrease.” (John 3:29-30) Who is the Bride? Those who are being baptized in Christ’s baptism. (26) Those who believe in the Son unto eternal life. (36) So, the Old Covenant saints have come to the end of their era— Hebrews 8:13 “In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” They must come into the New Covenant through Christ’s baptism (through regeneration) as well, not John’s (to repentance). Acts 19:1-7. In other words, they must become members of the Church in order to be ministers of the New Covenant. Speaking to the CHURCH in Corinth, Paul says,
Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. [5] Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, [6] who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[7] Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, [8] will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? [9] For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. [10] Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. [11] For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.
[12] Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, [13] not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. [14] But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. [15] Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. [16] But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. [17] Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. [18] And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:4-18
All believers, whether Jew or Gentile, are the Church (Eph. 2; Galatians 3:28). The Church was always embedded within Israel in ancient times. (Galatians 3:24-29) Not all Israelites (circumcised) were Israelites (in faith and redemption— Romans 2:28; Romans 9:6), but only those who believed by faith and their faith was imputed to them for righteousness. (Romans 4:16). For Abraham to inherit the world (including Gentiles, which Abraham was a Gentile before he was circumcised [Rom.3, again]) we must be his children by faith, not blood or circumcision (Romans 4:16). This includes all non-Israelites in the Old Testament who believed, Rahab, Ruth, Naaman, Uriah, etc. There is only and has ever only been one Israel of God, those who believe. Israel is his Bride. Israel is the Church. Always has been.
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And if you don't like THAT answer, I have more in
J  T P's
The Blogge
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 3:22:58 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JoToP
......Israel is his Bride. Israel is the Church. Always has been.
Paul’s epistle does not agree:
Gal 4:25-26
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Please compare with:
Isa 65:18-19
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
(KJV)
Joel 3:17
17 So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
(KJV)
Micah 4:1-2
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
(KJV)
Heb 12:22
22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
(KJV)
Rev 3:12
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
(KJV)
Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
(KJV)
Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...
(KJV)
Rev 21:3-5
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: FOR THE FORMER THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY.
5 AND HE THAT SAT UPON THE THRONE SAID, BEHOLD, I MAKE ALL THINGS NEW. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
(KJV)
At this point the old Israel will have passed away, so your statement cannot be true.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 3:28:33 PM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 255
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: Minnesota
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JoToP
I smell a Messianist view here that the modern, ethnic Jews or, at least, the Messianic Jews are the only ones who can lay claim to being the Bride of Christ (Mashiach). John the Baptist (baptizer), who is the Old Covenant prophet and herald of Messiah does not make this claim. He says, speaking of Christ, the Bride, and himself, “The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete. He must increase, but I must decrease.” (John 3:29-30) Who is the Bride? Those who are being baptized in Christ’s baptism. (26) Those who believe in the Son unto eternal life. (36) So, the Old Covenant saints have come to the end of their era— Hebrews 8:13 “In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.” They must come into the New Covenant through Christ’s baptism (through regeneration) as well, not John’s (to repentance). Acts 19:1-7. In other words, they must become members of the Church in order to be ministers of the New Covenant. Speaking to the CHURCH in Corinth, Paul says,
Again the Bride isn't identified. What is clear is that John the Baptist isn't part of it. Who is this "friend"? Is this important?
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 3:32:48 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
Again the Bride isn't identified. What is clear is that John the Baptist isn't part of it. Who is this "friend"? Is this important?
It is clear that John isn't the Bridegroom. Don't try to read more into it than is there. That's part of Topher's problem, too much when it isn't called for and too little when more is.
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 3:41:20 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
Again the Bride isn't identified. What is clear is that John the Baptist isn't part of it. Who is this "friend"? Is this important?
It is clear that John isn't the Bridegroom. Don't try to read more into it than is there. That's part of Topher's problem, too much when it isn't called for and too little when more is.
It would help if you could be more specific.
John 3:29
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
The above Scripture is very clear.
The only ambiguity agents are those who “read into” the very clear passages and revise them to mean other than what they say.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 4:15:05 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
The only ambiguity agents are those who “read into” the very clear passages and revise them to mean other than what they say.
There you go, you finally get it. Nail the door shut, the topic is closed now that you've 'fessed up.
Just a thought: When you run counter to a few believer's, don't sweat it. But when you find yourself in the tiniest of minorities among believers, then it's worth considering you might have wandered off the narrow path. The scripture tells us we'll face opposition - but from the world, not the Church as a whole. It is a warning flag when you find yourself fighting the majority of believers from all denominations. And the Judification of the Bride is off course.
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 4:42:26 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
The only ambiguity agents are those who “read into” the very clear passages and revise them to mean other than what they say.
There you go, you finally get it. Nail the door shut, the topic is closed now that you've 'fessed up.
Just a thought: When you run counter to a few believer's, don't sweat it. But when you find yourself in the tiniest of minorities among believers, then it's worth considering you might have wandered off the narrow path. The scripture tells us we'll face opposition - but from the world, not the Church as a whole. It is a warning flag when you find yourself fighting the majority of believers from all denominations. And the Judification of the Bride is off course.
You’ve apparently misunderstood my posts. No “Judification” intended, and I haven’t “‘fessed up” to anything. I’ve merely provided Scripture with sound exegesis.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 7:12:21 PM
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kisstheson
Posts: 984
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: AOL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
You know if it wasn't so blatantly obvious that you are ignoring the teaching of Christ being the Bridegroom i would laugh....
With all due respect, no one has done the above in this thread.
Where you are in error is in who the BRIDE is:
Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, COME HITHER, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE.
10 AND HE CARRIED ME AWAY IN THE SPIRIT TO A GREAT AND HIGH MOUNTAIN, AND SHEWED ME THAT GREAT CITY, THE HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD...
The bride is not the church, as has been taught now for centuries. I’ve traced this teaching back to
Bernard of Clairvaux (1090-1153), and I’ve seen it in several commentaries as well. The only problem is that this is NOT taught in Scripture- ANYWHERE.
quote:
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the law, can now give yourself to another husband to him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Hellooo...? You ignored this scipture which tells us its not just the jews who are the Bride, as this was written to gentile christians, from the book of Romans.
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the Law, can now give yourself to another Husband to Him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
The natural progression is, bride=wife=marriage
I am happy to say that I am a part of His Bride.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/12/2008 7:19:49 PM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Hellooo...? You ignored this scipture which tells us its not just the jews who are the Bride, as this was written to gentile christians, from the book of Romans.
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the Law, can now give yourself to another Husband to Him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Your translation is very faulty.
Neither Jews or gentiles are the “bride”.
Both saved Jews and gentiles will be guests at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; TO THE JEW FIRST, AND ALSO TO THE GREEK.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/13/2008 12:30:04 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 984
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: AOL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
Hellooo...? You ignored this scipture which tells us its not just the jews who are the Bride, as this was written to gentile christians, from the book of Romans.
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the Law, can now give yourself to another Husband to Him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Your translation is very faulty.
Neither Jews or gentiles are the “bride”.
Both saved Jews and gentiles will be guests at the marriage supper of the Lamb.
Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; TO THE JEW FIRST, AND ALSO TO THE GREEK.
I stronly disagree. I am looking fiorward to seeing my Bridegroom. everything you disgaree with turns out to be a "faulty translation." i'm done wth this discussion.
_____________________________
This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/13/2008 11:26:28 AM
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notmycity
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
....I [strongly] disagree. I am looking [forward] to seeing my Bridegroom...
Precisely, which is akin to believing “another gospel” and preaching “another Jesus”.
We should be reminded of my brother John’s account as he was shown by God:
Rev 1:9-18
9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
17 AND WHEN I SAW HIM, I FELL AT HIS FEET AS DEAD. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Hardly sounds like a bride responding to her husband. I believe that when I see Him I too will fall “at His feet as dead”. Oh to have my Savior and King lay His hand upon me and say, “Fear not; I am the first and the last. I am he that [lives], and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
“Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?”
May He find me and mine faithful when He comes!
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/13/2008 5:14:28 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Precisely, which is akin to believing “another gospel” and preaching “another Jesus”.
Topher, YOU are the one teaching the strange doctrine here. You cannot find a legitimate, serious student of scripture with your view on this. A flake, maybe, but not a legitimate, serious student of scripture. So you accusing others of believing another gospel is like a plastic banana calling a fresh orange a fake.
It comes with the territory of ignoring the rest of the Church of Jesus, His Bride.
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/13/2008 6:11:07 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Precisely, which is akin to believing “another gospel” and preaching “another Jesus”.
Topher, YOU are the one teaching the strange doctrine here. You cannot find a legitimate, serious student of scripture with your view on this. A flake, maybe, but not a legitimate, serious student of scripture. So you accusing others of believing another gospel is like a plastic banana calling a fresh orange a fake.
It comes with the territory of ignoring the rest of the Church of Jesus, His Bride.
Jimbo,
I won’t return your reviling.
I’ve provided many, many Scriptures in preaching truth here, and I have asked others (including you) to so the same.
What I typically get in return is convoluted circular reasoning and/or the citing of some other extra-Biblical source that does in fact go back many centuries.
If you desire to participate, please provide SCRIPTURE or we won’t be able to converse.
In case anyone missed this before:
Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I WILL SHEW THEE THE BRIDE, THE LAMB'S WIFE.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, AND SHEWED ME THAT GREAT CITY, THE HOLY JERUSALEM, DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD...
No commentaries needed. We just read it.
Thank you.
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/13/2008 6:47:49 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the Law, can now give yourself to another Husband to Him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Hello,
Forgive me, but I looked for this in several translations and could not find this anywhere:
"And that is why you my brothers, who through the body of christ, are now dead to the Law, can now give yourself to another Husband to Him who rose from the dead." Romans 7:4
Could you please provide the name of the translation?
Thank you.
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<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/13/2008 10:26:13 PM
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Beanteaser
Posts: 255
Joined: 6/23/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: notmycity
Precisely, which is akin to believing “another gospel” and preaching “another Jesus”.
Topher, YOU are the one teaching the strange doctrine here. You cannot find a legitimate, serious student of scripture with your view on this. A flake, maybe, but not a legitimate, serious student of scripture. So you accusing others of believing another gospel is like a plastic banana calling a fresh orange a fake.
It comes with the territory of ignoring the rest of the Church of Jesus, His Bride.
Why the name calling? I think it's unnecessary.
I believed the church was the bride for about the first 24 years of my life. During a Bible study, we were asked the question "who or what is the bride of Christ?" We had a couple weeks to come up with an answer and were told to only use a concordance and a Bible. Every single student in that class came to the same conclusion that the New Jerusalem is the Lamb's wife. It wasn't a difficult conclusion to make. Now I am called a flake? How nice.
Jimbo, prove to me that the New Jerusalem isn't the Lamb's wife....I dare you! If you can't, recant your statement. Fair deal?
BTW, notmycity never taught me anything.
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/14/2008 12:22:48 AM
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kisstheson
Posts: 984
Joined: 5/1/2006
From: AOL
Status: offline
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This is from the New king James version:
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
I think it reads like that in the American Standard Bible too.
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This is my Beloved. This is my friend. (Song of Solomon)
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RE: Church as the so-called bride of Christ? - 2/14/2008 2:03:40 PM
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notmycity
Posts: 1165
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kisstheson
This is from the New king James version:
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.
Yes, and that’s different from your earlier post. Please notice “husband” does not occur in the above.
Also, please check the Greek on the word “married” above (“ginomai”) and compare with the Greek word “gameo” (Strong’s # 1060) which means “ to wed”.
Interesting that we find “gameo” used below:
Mark 12:25
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry (“gameo”), nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
_____________________________
<><Topher
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts." Psalm 119:63
and..
"For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come." Heb 13:14 = "notmycity"
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