|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 4:59:53 AM
|
|
|
Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
Thats what they always say - and thats why i believe you brought up the constitution in the first place.
I bring up the constitution because I have had people tell me that they have a right not to listen to me talk about Jesus. Now that is true, but that does not translate into the idea that I don't have a right to talk about Him. I say, "If you don't like what I'm saying, tune me out. My wife does it all the time."
But what they are saying isnt true. They dont have a constitutional right not to listen to you. But you on the other hand have the right to talk about it all day and all night. Because there is freedom of speech. They don't? Interesting. I learned something today. But I'm confused. Why don't they have the right not to listen? (and no, I'm not being snarky... I'm actually interested in hearing it)
No its okay even if you were. It dosent bother me.
I was talking about its nowhere in the Constitution that they dont have to listen to you. If so please show me where it is. Or where you think it is.
I assume what you are speaking of is the first ammendment..am i correct?
If i am then yes - they have the right to not believe what we do, but they dont have the right not to listen. Not a constitutional right anyways.
They dont have to listen to you - but its not in the rights.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 8:23:14 AM
|
|
|
armydude
Posts: 17249
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
|
Ahhh... I'm tracking. Thanks.
_____________________________
May all of your troubles last no longer than your New Year's Resolutions!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 5:48:44 PM
|
|
|
Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Ahhh... I'm tracking. Thanks.
What? lol
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 5:50:49 PM
|
|
|
armydude
Posts: 17249
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Ahhh... I'm tracking. Thanks.
What? lol
Sorry. That's a military thing. When I say, "I'm tracking," I mean that I understand what you're saying.
_____________________________
May all of your troubles last no longer than your New Year's Resolutions!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 5:51:37 PM
|
|
|
Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Ahhh... I'm tracking. Thanks.
What? lol
Sorry. That's a military thing. When I say, "I'm tracking," I mean that I understand what you're saying.
Oh okay - sorry.
Im not familiar with that term. lol
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 6:25:18 PM
|
|
|
dianetavegia
Posts: 2031
Joined: 8/23/2005
From: Southern Baptist, Non Calvinist, Pro Life Ga. girl
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
Really??? Christmas decorations already? wowzers
Not already......... STILL!
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/1/2008 6:37:37 PM
|
|
|
PopsiLufsJesus
Posts: 5238
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
ah ha wow!
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/2/2008 12:00:56 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
Do they just mow around them? Or not mow at all?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/2/2008 5:35:51 PM
|
|
|
PopsiLufsJesus
Posts: 5238
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
Mow around what?
I missed you Abiyah. You have to tell me about camping? I hope you had a wonderful time.
*hugs
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/2/2008 8:11:51 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
Oh, sorry, Popsi! I was absent-mindedly replying to this:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
I've got 2 neighbours with Xmas decoration in their yard. It is so fascinating that I keep looking at their decoration even tho I believe it's a lil early. I can hardly wait for Xmas.
Apparently still there after last year?
My camping trip was fun. We didn't do Christmas, but the group did sit around a campfire and sing one night. I made up a new version of Family of G-d, hee-hee-hee.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
I know - but i meant the ones that make sure and say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Chrismas" so as not to 'offend' anyone... 
I especially appreciate those who do. Most who say "merry Christmas" are really offended by those who don't respond in kind. If I just smile and walk on, they think I am terrible, some giving me a free lecture. We don't all do Christmas. If I answer "happy Chanukkah" to some, then they are offended. Whadayado?
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 2:08:35 AM
|
|
|
Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Oh, sorry, Popsi! I was absent-mindedly replying to this:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Cloak
I've got 2 neighbours with Xmas decoration in their yard. It is so fascinating that I keep looking at their decoration even tho I believe it's a lil early. I can hardly wait for Xmas.
Apparently still there after last year?
My camping trip was fun. We didn't do Christmas, but the group did sit around a campfire and sing one night. I made up a new version of Family of G-d, hee-hee-hee.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
I know - but i meant the ones that make sure and say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Chrismas" so as not to 'offend' anyone...
I especially appreciate those who do. Most who say "merry Christmas" are really offended by those who don't respond in kind. If I just smile and walk on, they think I am terrible, some giving me a free lecture. We don't all do Christmas. If I answer "happy Chanukkah" to some, then they are offended. Whadayado?
If someone says happy holidays to me i always look at them, smile, and say "Merry Christmas".
Im not offended by those who say happy holidays to me, or if you said what you say to me - what i am offended by is when people try to take Christ out of the holiday.
Sadly...im sure it will happen again this year. Thats one thing i never look forward too.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:04:41 AM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
If someone says happy holidays to me i always look at them, smile, and say "Merry Christmas".
Im not offended by those who say happy holidays to me, or if you said what you say to me - what i am offended by is when people try to take Christ out of the holiday.
Sadly...im sure it will happen again this year. Thats one thing i never look forward too.
Okay, I'll admit it: "Merry Christmas" is offensive to me, but I know that many say it out of the kindness of their hearts, with intended good will. But some people are clearly Christmas Nazis. Some in my area even say merry Christmas with a look like, "I just dare you not to respond in kind." It's their holiday, and they are going to do it if they have to kill everyone else's joy in their own holidays to have it their way.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Just respond with something like, "Glorious Incarnation!" Or something else that's biblical like, "Maranatha!"
I'm guessing that 95% of the church-goers you greet like that will be somewhat confused and just might go home and look it up or ask their pastor what you meant.
That would be great, if I believed I should be doing Christmas, but I don't. Yes, I am one who understands Christmas to be pagan, so I do not wish to encourage anyone to participate in it.
Last year, I had written here that I would march in the street for those of you who want Christmas to have Christmas; this year, I must recant that. I would, however, march in the street for you to practice your religion, if you believe in the one true G-d.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:13:36 AM
|
|
|
PopsiLufsJesus
Posts: 5238
Joined: 5/6/2008
Status: offline
|
Pagan?
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:19:02 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Just respond with something like, "Glorious Incarnation!" Or something else that's biblical like, "Maranatha!"
I'm guessing that 95% of the church-goers you greet like that will be somewhat confused and just might go home and look it up or ask their pastor what you meant.
That would be great, if I believed I should be doing Christmas, but I don't. Yes, I am one who understands Christmas to be pagan, so I do not wish to encourage anyone to participate in it.
Last year, I had written here that I would march in the street for those of you who want Christmas to have Christmas; this year, I must recant that. I would, however, march in the street for you to practice your religion, if you believe in the one true G-d.
But you are in favor of the Incarnation and for the Lord to return, right? You could at least make a comment on something you do agree with rather than look away in silence.
I'll be honest, I'd wonder about someone who refused any reaction to a hearty "Merry Christmas" just like I'd wonder about someone that chooses to stand looking away from the flag with arms akimbo during the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance. I probably wouldn't say anything or give a disaproving look, but I'd wonder.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:25:06 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
Pagan?
Amazing, isn't it? Christians across the globe celebrating the Incarnation of God the Son is considered pagans by - not the world or any false religion on the earth - but by a few believers more focussed on the letter than the spirit.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:34:13 AM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
Oh, Popsi! Yes, I do see it as pagan, but everyone has to make up their own minds about these things. I used to do Christmas, as I said earlier in the thread, but stopped doing it a long time ago. However, I do not condemn those who still do it. To me, because of studies, I see it as pagan and recognize it as one of the replacements for the festivals G-d said to do.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
But you are in favor of the Incarnation and for the Lord to return, right? You could at least make a comment on something you do agree with rather than look away in silence.
I'll be honest, I'd wonder about someone who refused any reaction to a hearty "Merry Christmas" just like I'd wonder about someone that chooses to stand looking away from the flag with arms akimbo during the National Anthem or Pledge of Allegiance. I probably wouldn't say anything or give a disaproving look, but I'd wonder.
Fletch, I sure didn't intend that I do not respond. Not at all. I am sorry if I left you with that impression. No, I respond to those who seem sincere with, "And a happy holiday to you!" or something like that. To the Christmas Nazis, I respond with a big smile, saying, "Happy Chanukkah!" If someone replies unkindly or with "I'll pray for you!" (often used as a threat!  ), then I deal with it, but never unkindly. I see no value in that at all. No one has ever walked away from me offended or hurt by what I have said, if the bother to really hear what I say.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:38:07 AM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus
Pagan?
Amazing, isn't it? Christians across the globe celebrating the Incarnation of God the Son is considered pagans by - not the world or any false religion on the earth - but by a few believers more focussed on the letter than the spirit.
Jimbo, in this very thread, you seemed to be doiing the same thing to Messianics, because we celebrate our L-rd as we celebrate His feasts. Do you recall that?
We all love the L-rd, and we all do it in the way we understand. This is a place where we can discuss these things between friends, and to me, being friends does not mean that we agree on all things.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 11:58:08 AM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
LBolt
quote:
Pagan?
Yes, unfortunately, it is rooted in sun god worship. This was the time that zeus, mithra...was born. Messiah was born during Feast of Tabernacles (Sept or Oct time frame). What's interesting, when Antiochus Epiphanies IV, desecrated the Temple by offering up a pig on the alter and erecting a picture of zeus in the Holy of Holies, the date was December 25. The year I don't know of hand. The verses below, as well as the one from Jeremiah 10, instructs us not to serve Yahweh the way the heathen serve their elohim
Deut. 12 tells us, "30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. 32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Antichous was a precursor of the Anti-Christ because he changed the times and laws and forbid those from observing it, threatening them to be martyered. The Maccabeans staged a revolt against Antiochus and cleansed/rededicated the Temple. Which is why Chanukka was observed. Messiah was scene observing this holiday in John 10:22.
So.....if Messiah saw fit to observe it, I can too. Now, this is not a required Feast...however Christmas isn't and Chanukka is not rooted in paganism otherwise Messiah would not have observed it.
I know that many well meaning, loving Christmas see nothing wrong with Christmas and actually have beautiful motives and intentions in celebrating the birth of the Messiah, however, Yahweh already provided a way to do so and we do not have to copy off of paganistic traditions.
This was just a "fast and furious"...I've haven't even covered the sex symbols of the Christmas tree, mistle toe...
This is information one can easily look up...do a search on the origins of Christmas. If you have a copy of the works of Josephus, you can read the barbarous acts of Antichus Epiphanies IV.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 12:06:51 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
Pagan?
Yes, unfortunately, it is rooted in sun god worship...
I have only ever celebrated the Incarnation of God the Son on Christmas. Same is true for my parents. And their parents. And their parents. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum. There isn't a living soul on planet earth that worships a sun god on Christmas. There isn't a grandparent of living soul on planet earth that worships a sun god on Christmas. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.
No part of the word Christmas honors a sun god. Only God the Son.
Think a moment about the Promised Land. For centuries it was inhabited by pagans that worshipped false gods. It was made holy when taken over by the people of God and dedicated to His service.
Just like His people have done with Christmas - a day that gives no honor to a pagan sun god except those who chose to give it back to those defeated by the Redeemer through His people.
You and those like you are the only ones that give place to a pagan sun god on Christmas, a day dedicated by believers in honor of God the Son's Incarnation.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 12:15:24 PM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 999
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
I understand where you are coming from Jimbo, I really do.
However, Scripture tells us not to take pagan customs and use it to worship Him. It's mixed worship. Deut. 12 tells us, "30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God
Jeremiah 10 makes it even more clear: "1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs F49 of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Believe it or not this was the same holiday of course the did more in the celebrating of that holiday than the modern Christmas celebration...however, this is very, very clear. His instructions on this are clear! I even bolded it for emphasis. LOL!
quote:
Think a moment about the Promised Land. For centuries it was inhabited by pagans that worshipped false gods. It was made holy when taken over by the people of God and dedicated to His service.
Yes, but they were to serve Yah, not after the way of the heathens but after the way He instructed them to out of the mouth of Moses.
Why do we have to reinvent the wheel as the old adage goes?
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 2:18:32 PM
|
|
|
Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
. . . I think the Lord Himself answered your question: "No one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost and the skins as well; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins."
quote:
ORIGINAL: Luke 5:27-39
27 After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. "Follow me," Jesus said to him, 28 and Levi got up, left everything and followed him. 29 Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. 30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, "Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and 'sinners'?" 31 Jesus answered them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." 33 They said to him, "John's disciples often fast and pray, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours go on eating and drinking." 34 Jesus answered, "Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? 35 But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast." 36 He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. 37 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38 No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39 And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.'"
I am just curious: what do you believe this means, and how does it relate to doing the feasts G-d said to do, or to doing Christmas? This is not a trick question; I just want to understand your thoughts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Those OT feasts were mere shadows of the real deal, God the Son.
For there to be a shadow, there must be substance; Messiah was and is the substance. These are not mere "OT" feasts; they were continued throughout the "NT" as well. Unfortunately, the church usually refuses to acknowledge this. The disciples, perhaps, were mistaken. Perhaps Messiah was? And I did not write what I did to be derisive; I wrote it because it is the truth, and we are to do as He set the example.
He never said to stop, did he. He never said to switch to the commonly accepted traditions passed down from the pagans, through the RCC, to Protestantism. Rather, He warned about taking up human tradition.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 2:23:50 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
He never said to stop, did he. He never said to switch to the commonly accepted traditions passed down from the pagans, through the RCC, to Protestantism. Rather, He warned about taking up human tradition.
Refresh my memory, which of the feasts can be found after Pentecost in a Gentile church setting? And why did the Church fathers fail to mention feasts to be observed when they sent the letter in Acts to Gentiles outlining what was required of them when Judaisers tried to make them observe OT practices (note, circumcism was not the only issue addressed)?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Christmas, 2008 - 9/3/2008 2:32:36 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6429
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
I am just curious: what do you believe this means, and how does it relate to doing the feasts G-d said to do, or to doing Christmas? This is not a trick question; I just want to understand your thoughts.
Jesus did not come to give us more of the same old religion that was only intially given as a tutor but eventually turned into religiousity. He brought us a relationship as joint-heirs with Him, adopted to worship God without the veil and observances that once separated us.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
